20th AFL Team

[MelbourneGWS]

Good signs.

It makes absolutely perfect sense for the AFL/Giants to maintain/build up the footy infrastructure and interest in the region rather than have to essentially start from scratch should Canberra get its own team like they had to with the Suns/Giants. I have suspected this for sometime, too.

In some sense, it would be the AFLs expectation for the Giants to play in Canberra, it's beneficial to all.

I don't see there being too much of a distinction between the AFL/Giants until such time that the Giants are less reliant on the AFL and become member owned.

I think what to watch out for is if the amount of AFL games in Canberra increase from the current 3 games played annually.

Although, the current contract gives our ACT Government the option to buy a 4th Giants game, maybe a Victorian club will also sell an away Giants game to Canberra? Yes, there maybe issues with fixture integrity, but this is the AFL we are talking about!

 

[speedpeck23]

I think what to watch out for is if the amount of AFL games in Canberra increase from the current 3 games played annually.

Although, the current contract gives our ACT Government the option to buy a 4th Giants game, maybe a Victorian club will also sell an away Giants game to Canberra? Yes, there maybe issues with fixture integrity, but this is the AFL we are talking about!

You could well imagine that may be the way it plays out. Clearly Canberra can take more AFL matches. Can't see the AFL just simply dumping the Giants from Canberra and replacing them with a new brand. Why not just get another club to challenge the Giants " ownership" of Canberra. Some Victorian club may be looking for a secondary base in the next few years. As Andrew Barr says having a Melbourne club playing a Sydney club is great for tourism in the ACT.

 

[Canberra Pear]

This is the second part of the article - reiterates how Giants are Canberra’s AFL team, and how the current relationship has worked for the club, AFL, players, members and the region. Barr is indeed non committal, and there are significant budgetary difficulties, pressure for a new stadium by other codes, and need to find additional $ for Canberra United.

The only bit I read about being Canberra's team was from the Giants though.

Barr spruiked the current benefits of the partnership, but any inference that the Giants are a Canberra team seemed to be all from Matthews.

And as mentioned earlier, if the stadium upgrades get up for the BBL, I'm not sure we'll really need much additional funding for an AFL team.

Plus, if we're spending $2.85m on an AFL team, it'd be better for the ACT budget that it's one that brings in more than four times as much money to the Territory.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I think what to watch out for is if the amount of AFL games in Canberra increase from the current 3 games played annually.

Although, the current contract gives our ACT Government the option to buy a 4th Giants game, maybe a Victorian club will also sell an away Giants game to Canberra? Yes, there maybe issues with fixture integrity, but this is the AFL we are talking about!

You'd have a lot of angry Sydneysiders if we get a permanent fourth game.

Also, as you mentioned, finances are tight. Who's going to pay for a fourth or fifth game? Would the Giants just give it up for free?

 

[Giant YoYo]

I think what to watch out for is if the amount of AFL games in Canberra increase from the current 3 games played annually.

Although, the current contract gives our ACT Government the option to buy a 4th Giants game, maybe a Victorian club will also sell an away Giants game to Canberra? Yes, there maybe issues with fixture integrity, but this is the AFL we are talking about!

I'd be fully supportive of that as I do not believe Canberra gets enough games as it is. Hopefully it's a Melbourne team playing in Canberra that the Giants play against.

If the Giants decrease their Sydney home games to 7 while increasing Canberra's to 4 I cannot see how we'll have any growth in coming years when we operate in such a competitive market as it is. Particularly when the club has admitted that the Easter Show takes momentum out of our season and challenges to growing our crowds.

There were talks of adding an additional game to the season (which would require the players association to agree to) which may be where Canberra also may get an additional game from.

Yes, there maybe issues with fixture integrity, but this is the AFL we are talking about!

“Canberra is our home,” Matthews says.

Dave Matthews said the Giants are ‘proud to be Canberra’s AFL team.’ Picture: Phil Hillyard

Dave says that which is all very well and good although he would also be aware of the impacts it has on the team.

Playing back to back matches away takes a toll on the team and body. There were telltale signs of this during the Easter Show.

Even Himmelberg was quoted as saying that it does:

“Our first part of the year is challenging. We love playing in Canberra but we’re still travelling so that takes its toll on the group,” Himmelberg said. “We love travelling but I’d be lying if I said that wasn’t taxing on the body.

“We’re looking forward to some home games in the back end of the year and hopefully, we can get some players back from injury as well to boost that.

Yes, we might service both markets but the amount of travel does put the team on a bit of a backfoot so to speak because of travel.

Article from this week Phil Davis has come out and confirmed the same.

The biggest inequality in football, according to former Giants captain

The ex-GWS skipper had to deal with it regularly.

www.sen.com.au

Davis was asked what he perceives to be the biggest inequality in the game right now.

“It’s travel,” Davis said on SEN’s Crunch Time.

“Travel will always be the biggest challenge for interstate clubs.”

While I understand the benefits the Giants presence in Canberra has, the travel impact shouldn't be overlooked.

FWIW, I value having a stronger footy market in Canberra closer to Sydney rather than not if the Giants weren't playing in Canberra. Without the Giants in Canberra, footy interest would be diminished/much further away from Sydney which isn't what I want but the travel should be considered in the context of our season and any finals impacts it may have.

 

[Giant YoYo]

The only bit I read about being Canberra's team was from the Giants though.

Barr spruiked the current benefits of the partnership, but any inference that the Giants are a Canberra team seemed to be all from Matthews.

He's a Hawks fan.

If the Hawks played 3 games a season in Canberra who's to say he'd wouldn't be more amenable to saying that the Hawks are Canberra's team, too

In all seriousness, I get the point about Canberra not having a full time team of their own and the current arrangement. Dave's position is to spruik the Giants being Canberra's team. Barr's is to spruik the economic benefits to Canberra for the outlay.

If Barr wants Canberra to get its own team he would avoid saying that the Giants are Canberra's team.

 

[Canberra Pear]

He's a Hawks fan.

If the Hawks played 3 games a season in Canberra who's to say he'd wouldn't be more amenable to saying that the Hawks are Canberra's team, too

Haha, fair. I might be the same in Port were playing home games here

In all seriousness, I get the point about Canberra not having a full time team of their own and the current arrangement. Dave's position is to spruik the Giants being Canberra's team. Barr's is to spruik the economic benefits to Canberra for the outlay.

If Barr wants Canberra to get its own team he would avoid saying that the Giants are Canberra's team.

Exactly. Both are just speaking their respective parties' talking points.

But it's the first time I've heard Barr spruik the possibility of Team 20 to that extent.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

You'd have a lot of angry Sydneysiders if we get a permanent fourth game.

Also, as you mentioned, finances are tight. Who's going to pay for a fourth or fifth game? Would the Giants just give it up for free?

Whilst Canberra is also the home of the Giants, the contract does specify that our ACT Government does have the option of purchasing a 4th AFL game if its available - so no, the Giants won’t give the game for free.

Unfortunately, the very tight finances due to the expenditure on the Tram$, makes it difficult for Barr to purchase a 4th game - either from the Giants or a Victorian club. There would also be outrage from other codes, especially the Canberra United soccer team that had to be given $200k just to survive next season

 

[Giant YoYo]

But it's the first time I've heard Barr spruik the possibility of Team 20 to that extent.

I'm glad he's said it and supports it, hopefully we see traction for a Canberra team pick up.

I assume they're all walking a very fine line for various reasons but also gives an insight into things happening in the background, as discussed and suspected here.

Dave would be privy to the possibility of a Canberra team.

I'm keen for Canberra to get its own team. More games up here for us and more games within driving distance.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

I'd be fully supportive of that as I do not believe Canberra gets enough games as it is. Hopefully it's a Melbourne team playing in Canberra that the Giants play against.

If the Giants decrease their Sydney home games to 7 while increasing Canberra's to 4 I cannot see how we'll have any growth in coming years when we operate in such a competitive market as it is. Particularly when the club has admitted that the Easter Show takes momentum out of our season and challenges to growing our crowds.

There were talks of adding an additional game to the season (which would require the players association to agree to) which may be where Canberra also may get an additional game from.

Yes, that is how I understood it to be as well. Any 4th AFL game the Giants sell to Canberra, will be when an additional home game is eventually added to the season - not at the expense of the current 8 Sydney home matches. The contract also originally had 1 AFLW game to be played annually in Canberra, with a 2nd AFLW when available.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I'm glad he's said it and supports it, hopefully we see traction for a Canberra team pick up.

I assume they're all walking a very fine line for various reasons but also gives an insight into things happening in the background, as discussed and suspected here.

It's definitely a more fine line and more things to consider than places like Darwin or Cairns. They've been able to just come out and say they want a team.

Dave would be privy to the possibility of a Canberra team.

I'm keen for Canberra to get its own team. More games up here for us and more games within driving distance.

Exactly! A Canberra team means likely 13 annual Giants games in NSW/ACT.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Whilst Canberra is also the home of the Giants, the contract does specify that our ACT Government does have the option of purchasing a 4th AFL game if its available - so no, the Giants won’t give the game for free.

Unfortunately, the very tight finances due to the expenditure on the Tram$, makes it difficult for Barr to purchase a 4th game - either from the Giants or a Victorian club. There would also be outrage from other codes, especially the Canberra United soccer team that had to be given $200k just to survive next season

If we were to buy more games, they'd probably be at least $800k each. Which means ~$3.65m for four games, and ~$4.5m if we wanted five games.

Ironically, if our current $2.85m just went to a team of our own, we could possibly get 11 games cheaper than we could get four for.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

20th team? Just what we need, another 40 players who aren't good enough to play AFL.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I went to Manuka today, and I've got some key takeaways.

1. Another sell out. A great crowd. Reportedly 13,268 (felt like more). Good continued justification for the Manuka upgrade.

2. I saw so many people from the wider region. Lots of fans wore their local gear. Just in my area, I noticed a huge group from Pambula, and a couple from Bateman's Bay (both South Coast), and a group from Turvey Park (Wagga). While you wouldn't expect it on a fortnightly basis, it shows that Canberra would draw in fans from a pretty wide area.

3. Always play Canberra winter games early. Canberra winters are underrated. Yes it gets cold, but the day time is typically sunny and still. Canberra is the driest capital through the footy season. Just start winter games by by 1:10pm and you'll most likely get fantastic footy conditions.

4. Andrew Dillon was at the game today. Surely a good sign that Dillon would travel to Canberra to experience a game. And it was a great game for him to attend.

5. Albo was also at the game. He's a Hawks fan, so it was probably more of a coincidence. But it reinforces the importance of having a more regular presence in the capital. Easier to wheel and deal at a fortnightly Canberra game than wait for the one of three games we get now. Also important in an international sense, with all the ambassadors here.

 

[Giant YoYo]

4. Andrew Dillon was at the game today. Surely a good sign that Dillon would travel to Canberra to experience a game. And it was a great game for him to attend.

5. Albo was also at the game. He's a Hawks fan, so it was probably more of a coincidence. But it reinforces the importance of having a more regular presence in the capital. Easier to wheel and deal at a fortnightly Canberra game than wait for the one of three games we get now. Also important in an international sense, with all the ambassadors here.

Seems Buddy was there, too!

 

[catters05]

Give Canberra the 20th license already…. could they upgrade Manuka to a stadium like the Suns have?

 

[RedV3x]

Albo was also at the game. He's a Hawks fan,

Not really a fan, more of an opportunist.

 

[RedV3x]

Give Canberra the 20th license already…. could they upgrade Manuka to a stadium like the Suns have?

"could". is not the question. "Will" is the question.
Before the AFL WAFL grounds with just one small stadium and an embankment would hold 20k.
Even allowing for seating taking twice as much room as standing it's easy to get 20k capacity at an oval
If they continue the "People's First Stadium".to it's conclusion it will have a capacity of 40K.
The rule is, start with a decent stadium on the wing and go from there.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Give Canberra the 20th license already…. could they upgrade Manuka to a stadium like the Suns have?

Early plans to upgrade it to 20k are currently in the works.

It would be by renovating the eastern stand rather than creating a horseshoe shape like Carrara.

 

[neogh]

Western Bears set to be the 18th team in League. Is the light Greener for Team Canberra 20?

 

[Giant YoYo]

Is the light Greener for Team Canberra 20?

I hope so.

The AFL cannot sit on their laurels. We saw what happened in Canberra, footy interest went backwards which the Giants have been trying to clawback + favourable migration has helped.

 

[Coolangatta]

Western Bears set to be the 18th team in League. Is the light Greener for Team Canberra 20?

I’m worried the AFL will try to make a 3rd Perth team happen to kill any momentum the new NRL team might have. Hope I’m wrong. Would be stupid though because WA isn’t in any danger of losing ground to rugby.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

I’m worried the AFL will try to make a 3rd Perth team happen to kill any momentum the new NRL team might have. Hope I’m wrong. Would be stupid though because WA isn’t in any danger of losing ground to rugby.

I think it depends on the views of the WAFC when NRL expands to WA? Currently one of the main impediments to WA3 is WAFC being happy with the status quo, but who knows what will happen if the WAFC and the AFL view the NRL expansion into an Australian Football heartland as a major threat? Melbourne Storm is also in our Australian Rules heartland, but there are 9 other established AFL clubs in a city of 5 million.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

I’m worried the AFL will try to make a 3rd Perth team happen to kill any momentum the new NRL team might have. Hope I’m wrong. Would be stupid though because WA isn’t in any danger of losing ground to rugby.

Canberra should be the 20th team but reckon WA will be short-dollar favourites to be the 21st team, once the WAFC agrees to fund another team and it'll probably be a Perth-centric team or one of Joondalup / Mandurah / Busselton.

Reckon the NRL missed the boat by not naming the new WA team "Perth Bears" because Western Bears is such a stupid name (just like The Dolphins) but the AFL will want another WA team out of spite in the late 2030s / early 2040s.

Interesting to note from reports, the three new clubs the NRL will most likely bring in by 2030 include:

• Western Bears (Perth, WA)
• Papua New Guinea ....... (PNG)
• South Island ....... (Christchurch, NZ)

If the popularity of one of SUNS or GIANTS hits fever pitch in 10 - 15 years time, reckon the AFL will located that 22nd club in one of QLD3 (Brisbane 2 or Cairns / Townsville) or NSW3 (Newcastle).

Still think NT is better suited as a joint-entity side but that's just my opinion.

 

[Giant YoYo]

Canberra should be the 20th team but reckon WA will be short-dollar favourites to be the 21st team, once the WAFC agrees to fund another team and it'll probably be a Perth-centric team or one of Joondalup / Mandurah / Busselton.

Reckon the NRL missed the boat by not naming the new WA team "Perth Bears" because Western Bears is such a stupid name (just like The Dolphins) but the AFL will want another WA team out of spite in the late 2030s / early 2040s.

The NRL club will be suffering an identity crisis worse than any AFL club servicing multiple areas.

Canberra should be top of the list, the Giants will reach a ceiling to how much footy growth they can attain in Canberra being a club that plays there 3 times a year, it's simply not enough.

A fulltime club will be able to step in and achieve much greater growth.