20th AFL Team

[Cubs2Lions]

Also, the recent AFL fan survey results were announced today (in relation to future expansion / 20th team):

FANS' VERDICT: Opinions clear on subs, extra time, 20th team

More than 33,000 fans have had their say on a raft of proposed rule changes

www.afl.com.au

Northern Territory - 52 per cent

We don't need a 20th team - 18 per cent

Canberra - 13 per cent

Western Australia - 9 per cent

North Queensland - 4 per cent

Adelaide - 4 per cent

 

[Bjo187]

Also, the recent AFL fan survey results were announced today (in relation to future expansion / 20th team):

FANS' VERDICT: Opinions clear on subs, extra time, 20th team

More than 33,000 fans have had their say on a raft of proposed rule changes

www.afl.com.au

Northern Territory - 52 per cent

We don't need a 20th team - 18 per cent

Canberra - 13 per cent

Western Australia - 9 per cent

North Queensland - 4 per cent

Adelaide - 4 per cent

I told you, the amount of clueless footy fans out there can never be underestimated.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Also, the recent AFL fan survey results were announced today (in relation to future expansion / 20th team):

FANS' VERDICT: Opinions clear on subs, extra time, 20th team

More than 33,000 fans have had their say on a raft of proposed rule changes

www.afl.com.au

Northern Territory - 52 per cent

We don't need a 20th team - 18 per cent

Canberra - 13 per cent

Western Australia - 9 per cent

North Queensland - 4 per cent

Adelaide - 4 per cent

NT is what the people want - pity the key metrics doesn’t stack up against WA3 or Canberra. I am surprised though that WA3 didn’t get more votes than Canberra or “don’t want a 20th team” options.

 

[Rob]

West Coast really needs a better system to sell tickets back to the club. A sold out game shouldn't have 12k empty seats.

The only improvement (IMO) is to have some sort of points system that encourages match attendance or selling the seat back. I believe some EPL clubs have this in place where away game tickets are given to those fans with a minimum number of points.
The problem is that outside the grand final there's not much by way of ticketing incentive you can give to fans.

It's not like the Eagles are short of cash and desperately want to be able to resell tickets.

 

[Canberra Pear]

NT is what the people want - pity the key metrics doesn’t stack up against WA3 or Canberra. I am surprised though that WA3 didn’t get more votes than Canberra or “don’t want a 20th team” options.

It's an interesting change since the SEN poll in December.

Back then 16% wanted WA3 and only 14% wanted Canberra.

Canberra has overtaken WA3 as the preferred non-NT option.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

It's an interesting change since the SEN poll in December.

Back then 16% wanted WA3 and only 14% wanted Canberra.

Canberra has overtaken WA3 as the preferred non-NT option.

Yes, and in both NT was the runway “winner”. The other big “loser” in the poll seems to be SA3

 

[Coolangatta]

It’s a good result for Canberra. There’s really no excuses for the media anymore to ignore them in the 20th team conversation.

 

[Canberra Pear]

It’s a good result for Canberra. There’s really no excuses for the media anymore to ignore them in the 20th team conversation.

Things are definitely trending positively for a Canberra bid.

• Greater public recognition
• The WAFC downplays WA3
• Positive steps for a Manuka upgrade
• The Giants looking for alternatives through the Easter Show

Bit by bit, Canberra looks more and more realistic.

 

[Badger17]

I'm not normally one for code wars, but a well run AFL side launching in Canberra sometime soon alongside heavy investment into marketing and grassroots in the region and broader Southern NSW would hurt the NRL badly and they'd never see it coming.

RL in the ACT and large parts of Southern NSW have been overlooked and taken for granted by the NRL for decades at this point, and it's being left behind as a result. That makes it vulnerable to competitors entering the market, especially one with a pre-existing fanbase and history like Aussie Rules has in Canberra.

RL's participation numbers in the ACT itself are the smallest of the 4 football codes. Despite the Raiders being the largest professional team in Canberra for 40 years it hasn't resulted in a controlling share of the market. The NRL hasn't seen as large a post covid lockdown boom in Canberra as most of the rest of the league despite the Raiders being reasonably successful in the same period. And that's just a handful of examples of how RL is underperforming in Canberra.

The funny thing is that the NRL and RL media would initially scoff at the prospect of a Canberran AFL side like they do GWS and the Suns, but an AFL side having a higher average attendance and more members than the Raiders in year 1 is a very achievable goal if the AFL play their cards right.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I'm not normally one for code wars, but a well run AFL side launching in Canberra sometime soon alongside heavy investment into marketing and grassroots in the region and broader Southern NSW would hurt the NRL badly and they'd never see it coming.

RL in the ACT and large parts of Southern NSW have been overlooked and taken for granted by the NRL for decades at this point, and it's being left behind as a result. That makes it vulnerable to competitors entering the market, especially one with a pre-existing fanbase and history like Aussie Rules has in Canberra.

RL's participation numbers in the ACT itself are the smallest of the 4 football codes. Despite the Raiders being the largest professional team in Canberra for 40 years it hasn't resulted in a controlling share of the market. The NRL hasn't seen as large a post covid lockdown boom in Canberra as most of the rest of the league despite the Raiders being reasonably successful in the same period. And that's just a handful of examples of how RL is underperforming in Canberra.

The funny thing is that the NRL and RL media would initially scoff at the prospect of a Canberran AFL side like they do GWS and the Suns, but an AFL side having a higher average attendance and more members than the Raiders in year 1 is a very achievable goal if the AFL play their cards right.

I agree. I'm of the general view that there's enough room in Canberra for both. I know plenty of dual-code or tri-code fans in Canberra.

But I do think the strength of AFL in Canberra is underestimated. I linger on league unlimited and they scoff the idea of a Canberra AFL team. I think they're thinking of a GWS 2.0, but we're a very different scenario to Western Sydney.

 

[Aussie in exile]

It's an interesting change since the SEN poll in December.

Back then 16% wanted WA3 and only 14% wanted Canberra.

Canberra has overtaken WA3 as the preferred non-NT option.

I have a feeling that the AFL would rather have a team from the NT than a team from Canberra, due to the fact that they want GWS still playing some games in Canberra, but i hope I'm wrong.

 

[Coolangatta]

I have a feeling that the AFL would rather have a team from the NT than a team from Canberra, due to the fact that they want GWS still playing some games in Canberra, but i hope I'm wrong.

Until when? 2032? Because that wouldn’t stop Canberra from getting a team.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Until when? 2032? Because that wouldn’t stop Canberra from getting a team.

I don't see 2 AFL clubs playing out of Canberra.
I think the AFL would prefer GWS playing some games in Canberra than Canberra having its own team, after 2023, but just my opinion.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I have a feeling that the AFL would rather have a team from the NT than a team from Canberra, due to the fact that they want GWS still playing some games in Canberra, but i hope I'm wrong.

Personally, I don't think the AFL wants an NT team. They hesitated for the economics of Tasmania, and the NT will be so much harder, unless the AFL can secure PNG levels of funding.

It's a good look, but it's just so damned expensive, they'll never stand on their own feet, and the logistics are also hard.

GWS losing $2-3m is small change compared to what an NT team will cost.

I think the Giants looking for alternatives during the Easter Show is a good sign that they're looking for alternatives to Canberra.

 

[RedV3x]

I don't see 2 AFL clubs playing out of Canberra.

Either do I, but arrangements last only as long as both parties want it.
There have been too many "arrangements" that simply have come and gone.
As Canberra Pear said, N.T. is possible but the ongoing financial commitment would be politically uncertain.

 

[neogh]

Are footy fans irrational or not too interested?

 

[Teen Wolf]

Are footy fans irrational or not too interested?

It would be irrational to expect most footy fans to answer such a question with deep consideration for the commercial implications.

Other than the 18% portion (****wits who don't understand the point of a hypothetical--we all know the AFL doesn't need a 20th team), I think it's a useful survey.

While 52% suggests the public support for NT is strong, it is significantly lower than what Tasmania had 9 years ago in the Herald Sun's poll:

FOOTY fans across the country overwhelmingly want Tasmania to be the next destination for an AFL team.

The Herald Sun — Fox Footy 2015 Footy Fans Survey of more than 14,000 people found most supporters believe the state deserves its own AFL side.

When asked: “Where should the AFL invest its expansion resources?” a whopping 78.03 per cent voted for Tasmania, with “other” receiving 13.22 per cent of the vote and New Zealand 8.75 per cent.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Are footy fans irrational or not too interested?

I think more the latter. There's so many questions I didn't have strong opinions on but still had to pick an answer.

I reckon plenty don't have a strong opinion on the 20th team, but picked the NT because it felt like the right answer.

 

[Canberra Pear]

The comment section on r/afl better reflects bigfooty.

Mostly mocking the NT, Canberra seemingly the most popular option, with a bit of support for WA3.

 

[Walshawk]

Personally, I don't think the AFL wants an NT team. They hesitated for the economics of Tasmania, and the NT will be so much harder, unless the AFL can secure PNG levels of funding.

It's a good look, but it's just so damned expensive, they'll never stand on their own feet, and the logistics are also hard.

GWS losing $2-3m is small change compared to what an NT team will cost.

I think the Giants looking for alternatives during the Easter Show is a good sign that they're looking for alternatives to Canberra.

You cannot base a team in a small isolated city like Darwin. Just over half the size of Hobart. NT is 20 times the size of Tas with 45% of the population. I would suggest that most people who think NT is a good idea would not be aware what a tiny market it is.
Comparing to Hobart/Tas, Canberra/Surrounding 200km is a 50% bigger market and growing much faster than Hobart/Tas or Darwin/NT.

 

[Canberra Pear]

You cannot base a team in a small isolated city like Darwin. Just over half the size of Hobart. NT is 20 times the size of Tas with 45% of the population. I would suggest that most people who think NT is a good idea would not be aware what a tiny market it is.
Comparing to Hobart/Tas, Canberra/Surrounding 200km is a 50% bigger market and growing much faster than Hobart/Tas or Darwin/NT.

Spot on.

I was just chatting with a guy on reddit from Batemans Bay (about 150km, two hours away) who said he travels to every Manuka game. Said there were plenty of people on the South Coast who would be keen for a Canberra side.

 

[Badger17]

I agree. I'm of the general view that there's enough room in Canberra for both. I know plenty of dual-code or tri-code fans in Canberra.

But I do think the strength of AFL in Canberra is underestimated. I linger on league unlimited and they scoff the idea of a Canberra AFL team. I think they're thinking of a GWS 2.0, but we're a very different scenario to Western Sydney.

Of course there's room for both. I don't even think that an AFL side would have that greater impact on the Raiders themselves in the longer term, but done right an AFL side in Canberra could embarrass the NRL and put a lot of pressure onto their junior develop programs in the region.

Both the Raiders and an AFL side would have their niche, but from the NRL's perspective a Canberran AFL side would effectively spring up out of nowhere and be highly competitive with, if not outcompete, their 42 year old local club in a city and region they assume is a safe market for them.

Imagine the bloody noise it'd give them in the PR war if an AFL side was drawing stronger numbers than the Raiders from day one. It'd be a reality check to say the least, and a well deserved one.

I wouldn't worry about the consensus on League Unlimited when it comes to the ACT. It's just a bunch of Queenslanders and Sydneysiders shouting down the handful of people with informed opinions on the subject. An echo chamber of clowns repeating their shared opinion back to each other.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Of course there's room for both. I don't even think that an AFL side would have that greater impact on the Raiders themselves in the longer term, but done right an AFL side in Canberra could embarrass the NRL and put a lot of pressure onto their junior develop programs in the region.

Both the Raiders and an AFL side would have their niche, but from the NRL's perspective a Canberran AFL side would effectively spring up out of nowhere and be highly competitive with, if not outcompete, their 42 year old local club in a city and region they assume is a safe market for them.

Definitely. Canberra keeps getting called a "rugby town", and it's a title the NRL would be keen to promote.

I believe the Raiders are also playing a home game away in Vegas (as well as the Wagga game I believe). Might be less keen to sell home games if there's a full-time AFL team in town.

Imagine the bloody noise it'd give them in the PR war if an AFL side was drawing stronger numbers than the Raiders from day one. It'd be a reality check to say the least, and a well deserved one.

Canberra might finally get some special treatment from the NRL. Might get an NRLW Magic Round or more women's State of Origin matches.

I wouldn't worry about the consensus on League Unlimited when it comes to the ACT. It's just a bunch of Queenslanders and Sydneysiders shouting down the handful of people with informed opinions on the subject. An echo chamber of clowns repeating their shared opinion back to each other.

I never do. I love reading through all sports industry type forums, but LU is just such a slog to get through. Pages of insults between the occasional bits of content.

 

[Pivot Piece]

Also, the recent AFL fan survey results were announced today (in relation to future expansion / 20th team):

FANS' VERDICT: Opinions clear on subs, extra time, 20th team

More than 33,000 fans have had their say on a raft of proposed rule changes

www.afl.com.au

Northern Territory - 52 per cent

We don't need a 20th team - 18 per cent

Canberra - 13 per cent

Western Australia - 9 per cent

North Queensland - 4 per cent

Adelaide - 4 per cent

Remember if this poll was done in 2007 it would've been like 85% for Tasmania, 10% for GC and 5% for Western Sydney. And the case for Tasmania was much stronger than the case for either NT or Canberra now. The AFL doesn't care about what the majority want, they care about dollars and viability.

 

[RedV3x]

Both the Raiders and an AFL side would have their niche, but from the NRL's perspective a Canberran AFL side would effectively spring up out of nowhere and be highly competitive with, if not outcompete, their 42 year old local club in a city and region they assume is a safe market for them.

It's a shock to realise that the raiders have been around so long. They started with a bang but don't notice them these days.
Again, it depends a lot on onfield success.
Again, plenty of room for both.
Again, any change will be generational.