Past #23: Ben McKay - gone to * as RFA - NMFC awarded Band 1 pick #3 compo

[The acurate one]

My source suggests that it's all about getting the 'set up for life' deal. A few clubs talking serious money so no hurry just yet. No other issues now Clarko on board. Hope he is right.

Interesting and do you think he is worthy of that on his output?

Him and Logue are a good comparison. Don't really care but probably do. Isn't the Logue deal around 600K per year? So I cannot see how BMac is worth more.
Not directed at you, just your comment I thought worthy of a chat

Also he's not proving to be very durable and a bone stress injury isn't flash. Has ended a few careers over the journey.

In the past, we've signed guys either at our club or from other clubs that I felt were to do with our standing in the comp more than the best thing for us to do.

Sometimes being brave is the better option.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Interesting and do you think he is worthy of that on his output?

Him and Logue are a good comparison. Don't really care but probably do. Isn't the Logue deal around 600K per year? So I cannot see how BMac is worth more.
Not directed at you, just your comment I thought worthy of a chat

Also he's not proving to be very durable and a bone stress injury isn't flash. Has ended a few careers over the journey.

In the past, we've signed guys either at our club or from other clubs that I felt were to do with our standing in the comp more than the best thing for us to do.

Sometimes being brave is the better option.




View attachment 1634595

I think its of limited value to compare the pair based on their career averages.

McKay has spent so much of his career working in a dysfunctional system. Logue was unfortunate to be stuck in Freo's pecking order behind two of the best KPDs in the league - one an AA and the other a captain-in-waiting.

FWIW McKay's contested marks and intercepts numbers for 2022 (2.1 and 6.5 per game) were higher than Logue's (1.2 and 4).

But from memory Griff spent more time in his unsuccessful foray as a forward than McKay did. And obviously unlike Ben, Logue was working alongside a proficient KPD counterpart (when he was in defence) which streamlined his role somewhat, so that would have coloured the stats even more.

If North had to offer Ben $850k to surpass our rivals' offers, they can call the discrepancy a bonus for being in the leadership group, or AIA ambassadorial compensation.

(I've got the script ready to go: "When I got a bone stress injury, AIA's combined Hospital & Extras policy gave me the little extras I needed to recover in time for bashing the crap out of my brother on Good Friday")

I don't really care.

Him and Logue might take a few games to gel, but ultimately half the competition will be envious of such a pairing. Its a better KPD setup than that of the Dogs, the Lions, and the Cockledivers - that's a pretty good pillar for a consecutive woodenspooner to stage its rebuild around, I would suggest.

 

[gokangas]

Interesting and do you think he is worthy of that on his output?

Him and Logue are a good comparison. Don't really care but probably do. Isn't the Logue deal around 600K per year? So I cannot see how BMac is worth more.
Not directed at you, just your comment I thought worthy of a chat

Also he's not proving to be very durable and a bone stress injury isn't flash. Has ended a few careers over the journey.

In the past, we've signed guys either at our club or from other clubs that I felt were to do with our standing in the comp more than the best thing for us to do.

Sometimes being brave is the better option.




View attachment 1634595

Good question. I think he is worth whatever he can get. He seems to be attracting interest from several other clubs so at the least they will push his price up, even if he wants to stay. We will have to pay well to keep him - can't blame him for getting the best deal he can I suppose. Free agency has that down side.

 

[r_boy]

I'm keen to keep him but only for the right price.

He needs to find his voice out on the field and he's never going to be a rebounding type player with elite skills. I don't see that as an 800k plus player.

600-700k for 5-6 years is about right, frontloaded.

 

[Passmore]

Interesting and do you think he is worthy of that on his output?

Him and Logue are a good comparison. Don't really care but probably do. Isn't the Logue deal around 600K per year? So I cannot see how BMac is worth more.
Not directed at you, just your comment I thought worthy of a chat

Also he's not proving to be very durable and a bone stress injury isn't flash. Has ended a few careers over the journey.

In the past, we've signed guys either at our club or from other clubs that I felt were to do with our standing in the comp more than the best thing for us to do.

Sometimes being brave is the better option.




View attachment 1634595

I guess it depends on how much “set up for life “ amounts to.

 

[Passmore]

Good question. I think he is worth whatever he can get. He seems to be attracting interest from several other clubs so at the least they will push his price up, even if he wants to stay. We will have to pay well to keep him - can't blame him for getting the best deal he can I suppose. Free agency has that down side.

You look at past players with mashed brains and failing bodies, who can begrudge them?

 

[gokangas]

You look at past players with mashed brains and failing bodies, who can begrudge them?

Know a few supporters like that too.

 

[Themanbun]

I think its of limited value to compare the pair based on their career averages.

McKay has spent so much of his career working in a dysfunctional system. Logue was unfortunate to be stuck in Freo's pecking order behind two of the best KPDs in the league - one an AA and the other a captain-in-waiting.

FWIW McKay's contested marks and intercepts numbers for 2022 (2.1 and 6.5 per game) were higher than Logue's (1.2 and 4).

But from memory Griff spent more time in his unsuccessful foray as a forward than McKay did. And obviously unlike Ben, Logue was working alongside a proficient KPD counterpart which streamlined his role somewhat, so that would have coloured the stats even more.

If North had to offer Ben $850k to surpass our rivals' offers, they can call the discrepancy a bonus for being in the leadership group, or AIA ambassadorial compensation.

(I've got the script ready to go: "When I got a bone stress injury, AIA's combined Hospital & Extras policy gave me the little extras I needed to recover in time for bashing the crap out of my brother on Good Friday")

I don't really care.

Him and Logue might take a few games to gel, but ultimately half the competition will be envious of such a pairing. Its a better KPD setup than that of the Dogs, the Lions, and the Cockledivers - that's a pretty good pillar for a consecutive woodenspooner to stage its rebuild around, I would suggest.

Logue played a fair chunk of his season in Freo's dysfunctional forwardline, which you touch on.

 

[The acurate one]

Can't disagree with any of the above thoughts.

Yes FA has certainly hit the clubs holding the players as of course opposition clubs get a player for free in drafting parlance so are happy to basically pay the player more and keep the pick(s)

Wonder why it isn't, eg ok Sydney you want Bmac and are prepared to pay him 800k, hand over your first rounder to North.
Would adjust the market accordingly, and would be an even playing field. It doesn't impact player x leaving, just would stop the stupid offers.

 

[Passmore]

I'm keen to keep him but only for the right price.

He needs to find his voice out on the field and he's never going to be a rebounding type player with elite skills. I don't see that as an 800k plus player.

600-700k for 5-6 years is about right, frontloaded.

He touched on the voice thing in his pod. He mentioned that the feedback had been that he was more vocal than previously. Harry asked him “ what, were you a mute before?”

 

[Passmore]

Can't disagree with any of the above thoughts.

Yes FA has certainly hit the clubs holding the players as of course opposition clubs get a player for free in drafting parlance so are happy to basically pay the player more and keep the pick(s)

Wonder why it isn't, eg ok Sydney you want Bmac and are prepared to pay him 800k, hand over your first rounder to North.
Would adjust the market accordingly, and would be an even playing field. It doesn't impact player x leaving, just would stop the stupid offers.

MLB does something similar.

If you sign a FA with a contract in front of them from their existing club, your first round draft pick. (It may have recently changed to second round).

The club that loses the player gets a pick at the end of the first round.

 

[DesertRoo]

Can't disagree with any of the above thoughts.

Yes FA has certainly hit the clubs holding the players as of course opposition clubs get a player for free in drafting parlance so are happy to basically pay the player more and keep the pick(s)

Wonder why it isn't, eg ok Sydney you want Bmac and are prepared to pay him 800k, hand over your first rounder to North.
Would adjust the market accordingly, and would be an even playing field. It doesn't impact player x leaving, just would stop the stupid offers.

The issue isn’t the stupid offers, it’s that the players are forcing the clubs hands.
There needs to be balance between club priorities vs players. At the moment there is none, good players are moving to the top four teams and bottom teams ain’t really getting compensated.
clubs should be able to force contracted players to get the best deal.

 

[The acurate one]

MLB does something similar.

If you sign a FA with a contract in front of them from their existing club, your first round draft pick. (It may have recently changed to second round).

The club that loses the player gets a pick at the end of the first round.

Yeah well it would make it a real transaction. I recall when this FA was first mooted that it would assist those players that can't crack a regular gig to find new homes. And even being as silly as a wheel I thought it a) has never been difficult getting a guy who can't get a game b) who the heck wants those types the majority of the time.

Yeh well bring it cause it would cost Bmac 200K PA. And he'll get enough just means a couple of others can get a pay rise.

 

[The acurate one]

The issue isn’t the stupid offers, it’s that the players are forcing the clubs hands.
There needs to be balance between club priorities vs players. At the moment there is none, good players are moving to the top four teams and bottom teams ain’t really getting compensated.
clubs should be able to force contracted players to get the best deal.

Yes well not sure how you fix that, players have always been attracted to the better-performed sides. Who would want to play under Noble for example.

 

[RobZombie]

There is no way our team is paid at 100% cap on individual contracts. Not a chance in hell. I would think its ~ 90% of the cap. All our players would have been topped up.

For what it’s worth, under the CBA, the floor is 95% of the cap. You can bring forward pre-payments from future seasons to make it up if you have to, and obviously front-loading deals is a standard way of “overspending” now and using the cap room for something else later. So … yeah we likely have a few being “overpaid” considering the team’s output on the whole, but the guys soaking up excess cash will be more your Polecs & Corrs (and maybe your TTs), not so much your McKays.

 

[RobZombie]

So folks as one who hasn’t ever been concerned with what players earn .

How much do you think a 6 yr player with 52 games under his belt is worth dollar wise ?
And how long a contract would you think is fair ?

He’s worth whatever the best available FA this year in a position of scarcity is worth? I’d say that number is well north of what a 6y/52g fringe player would fetch.

It’s a disingenuous question of course, because he’s clearly not a 52g fringe player. The reasons why it’s taken him 6y are other reasons.

 

[DesertRoo]

Yes well not sure how you fix that, players have always been attracted to the better-performed sides. Who would want to play under Noble for example.

It’s easy, players are signed to the afl not the clubs.
when they sign up to the draft, they’re expected to play anywhere, keep that mantra going, if you get players like mummies boy, you tell him he can either play for the team or sit out or let north trade him to anyone for a fairer compensation.

You’ll only need to sacrifice one or two, before kids understand, that’s the game. You either accept it or don’t play.

 

[The acurate one]

He’s worth whatever the best available FA this year in a position of scarcity is worth? I’d say that number is well north of what a 6y/52g fringe player would fetch.

It’s a disingenuous question of course, because he’s clearly not a 52g fringe player. The reasons why it’s taken him 6y are other reasons.

Oh don't disagree, and of course we have invested in his development and as we all know that equates to $$$.
Just seems the club with all to lose is the one with the player.

Whichever way it goes it will be interesting viewing.

 

[RobZombie]

Oh don't disagree, and of course we have invested in his development and as we all know that equates to $$$.
Just seems the club with all to lose is the one with the player.

Whichever way it goes it will be interesting viewing.

Like you, I’m generally not overly concerned with what players make. It’s a short career and they’re entitled to bargain in their own best interests. If he asks us for $800k it’s because he either thinks we might give it to him, or he knows someone else will give it to him.

And if we don’t, part of the cost of letting him go is how to replace a readymade KPD of his quality. That involves there being a good one available at all, the cost to lure them out of another club, the risk of trades falling over, them not gelling with the group when they get here, all that. It’s likely just easier to pay a bit over the odds if you have to, front load as much as you can so it doesn’t **** the cap, and use your trade currency on some other area of need.

 

[Horace]

FWIW, Barrett on the Sunday Football show yesterday said, and its in the Age again today, that if De Koning leaves Carlton, they will make a big play for Ben.

He added though that Ben is "making all the right noises" to stay.

And why wouldn't he want to stay? Surely we are looking substantially different this year to what we looked like last year and the year before. New and highly credentialed coach. Sheezel, Wardlaw, George, our 2022 draftees. Goater, Bergman and Curtis from 2021. Larkey and Comben (at last). Logue and Shiels adding valuable experience. Powell well on his way. Phillips will only get better. Who have I missed?

After just one win, and with in all likelihood, many losses ahead this year, call me naive if you wish, but I think our club has a very good future ahead of it and if I was Ben, I'd be signing a fair and decent contract with us, so as to be part of that.

 

[Friday Night Lights]

If De Koning leaves Carlton they’ll be panicking that they might find themselves inside the salary cap.

 

[roos 10]

If De Koning leaves Carlton they’ll be panicking that they might find themselves inside the salary cap.

If I’m north i and going hard at de koning
And signing Ben aswell

 

[Samsquanch]

My source suggests that it's all about getting the 'set up for life' deal. A few clubs talking serious money so no hurry just yet. No other issues now Clarko on board. Hope he is right.

So, does snozz get in BMac's ear with the tale of the other Ben who was convinced by his agent that he'd land a mega win on his contract, or even the other Ben who encountered an unexpected illness that could have ended up very differently. I'm not joking by saying that - the old idiom about the bird in the hand exists for a reason.

 

[Samsquanch]

He did for Port

Contracts mean nothing for Horne.

 

[DuckYeah]

Like you, I’m generally not overly concerned with what players make. It’s a short career and they’re entitled to bargain in their own best interests. If he asks us for $800k it’s because he either thinks we might give it to him, or he knows someone else will give it to him.

And if we don’t, part of the cost of letting him go is how to replace a readymade KPD of his quality. That involves there being a good one available at all, the cost to lure them out of another club, the risk of trades falling over, them not gelling with the group when they get here, all that. It’s likely just easier to pay a bit over the odds if you have to, front load as much as you can so it doesn’t * the cap, and use your trade currency on some other area of need.

The other factor at play, is, over history, the easiest players to pull from other clubs are KPD. Lets be honest, the scheme of big men, a KPD is the lowest ranked big man out of prime FF, CHF, Rucks etc. McKay is a full back, not a centre half back. If he commands 800 i’d happy if the club pays that. If a dime more i’ll be annoyed.

750 was my no more mark about 4 days ago. I can let 50k slide, we have cap room but no more than that