Past #23: Kieran Harper - delisted by the club (29/10) - will miss '16 VAFA season, surgery on ankle

[The Nostradamus]

We are looking at 4 retirements and Currie more than likely going elsewhere, so we are not going to be pressed for delistings, so I agree that there is plenty of justification on a 1-year deal based on what he has been showing in the second half of the year (same applies to BMac).

this.
give him another year, next year will be his make or break year

 

[Deadeyeroo]

BMac deserves another year where Harper already got another year last year. DELIST OR TRADE.

 

[ozzyoslo]

BMac deserves another year where Harper already got another year last year. DELIST OR TRADE.

From all reports are this year is a thin trade year........Give him another year, we've been very patient with Hansen, Tarrant I think we owe it to ourselves to keep Harper for one more year. He is trying .

 

[Deadeyeroo]

From all reports are this year is a thin trade year........Give him another year, we've played very patient Hansen, Tarrant I think we owe it to ourselves to keep Harper for one more year. He is trying .

The difference is when Hansen and Tarrant were having injury or form issues they at least earned recalls into the senior team, Harper has not.

After next year some on this board will be calling for another year, when do you say enough is enough?

 

[Shermanator]

The difference is when Hansen and Tarrant were having injury or form issues they at least earned recalls into the senior team, Harper has not.

After next year some on this board will be calling for another year, when do you say enough is enough?

The article on the Roos website quoted him as saying it's the first time in years his body and mind have been feeling confident. That's a huge hurdle to get over - especially the mental side.

Funnily enough I saw Spitta do a side step around someone on Sunday and thought to myself its the first time I've seen him power around an opponent with confidence since the Achilles. It's like he has confidence in his body again and isn't concentrating on reinjuring himself, and how long has that taken?
Coincidently it was probably Spitta's best game since his return from that terrible injury.

I'm not saying Harps will make it at AFL level but having your body right then getting the mind to have the confidence to do the instinctive stuff is massive.

Getting 20 odd tackles in the last couple of weeks at least indicates he's having a dip.

 

[Deadeyeroo]

The article on the Roos website quoted him as saying it's the first time in years his body and mind have been feeling confident. That's a huge hurdle to get over - especially the mental side.

Funnily enough I saw Spitta do a side step around someone on Sunday and thought to myself its the first time I've seen him power around an opponent with confidence since the Achilles. It's like he has confidence in his body again and isn't concentrating on reinjuring himself, and how long has that taken?
Coincidently it was probably Spitta's best game since his return from that terrible injury.

I'm not saying Harps will make it at AFL level but having your body right then getting the mind to have the confidence to do the instinctive stuff is massive.

Getting 20 odd tackles in the last couple of weeks at least indicates he's having a dip.

More likely having a dip because the end of the season is nearing and it's time to pull his finger out of his arse, too late for me and many others.

 

[Mcarcherey]

The difference is when Hansen and Tarrant were having injury or form issues they at least earned recalls into the senior team, Harper has not.

After next year some on this board will be calling for another year, when do you say enough is enough?

not hard previously considering out lack of backs, got to give him a break considering our midfield (DO NOT mention gibbo, he's un-droppable so the i mean the rest of the midfielders)

 

[ozzyoslo]

The difference is when Hansen and Tarrant were having injury or form issues they at least earned recalls into the senior team, Harper has not.

After next year some on this board will be calling for another year, when do you say enough is enough?

What do we do with Nahas?? I'm first to say he's been fantastic for us but his time is marked he knows it as well........if the club were to keep Nahas and let Harps go it would be done with knowledge. But I can't see that coming.

 

[Shermanator]

More likely having a dip because the end of the season is nearing and it's time to pull his finger out of his arse, too late for me and many others.

No.. re-read my post and that's more likely the answer.

 

[Deadeyeroo]

No.. re-read my post and that's more likely the answer.

Common thing players will say to stay on a list especially this time of year.

 

[Shermanator]

Common thing players will say to stay on a list especially this time of year.

Eh?..

I didn't realise the majority of 'soon to be delistees' have;

1. been injured
2. came back from injury initially focused on not getting reinjured
3. overcome the lack of mental confidence
4. then started to perform

I really gotta get out more..

 

[jess_1804]

Eh?..

I didn't realise the majority of 'soon to be delistees' have;

1. been injured
2. injured again
3. and again
4. came back
   
5. different injury this time!
   
6. came back from injury initially focused on not getting reinjured
7. overcome the lack of mental confidence
8. then started to perform

I really gotta get out more..

EFA

 

[Tas]

Common thing players will say to stay on a list especially this time of year.

Honestly, do you know any players and how they go about it? That is an insulting thing to say about any player.

I don't believe decisions about retaining players are left late in a season, the club would have at least internally set things they want each player to achieve, be it rehab or development or performances and would have decided the fate of players a long time ago.

We will find out what happens in due course, given his attributes and the lack of other options I would be loathed to part ways at least until other options have been recruited. With Wells playing stuff all for a second season in a row now and Boomer not getting any younger, we don't really have many players that look like they have much class and zip outside of Atley, Mullett and Harper.

 

[roosmad]

What do we do with Nahas?? I'm first to say he's been fantastic for us but his time is marked he knows it as well........if the club were to keep Nahas and let Harps go it would be done with knowledge. But I can't see that coming.

Surely we keep nahas, I was furious when we picked him up but the guy seems to have matured immensely, and is deserving of a spot on our list.

 

[ozzyoslo]

Surely we keep nahas, I was furious when we picked him up but the guy seems to have matured immensely, and is deserving of a spot on our list.

Deserving a spot yes but this one might come Down to a "future for the Club call" we have Turner and Garner who are young in the same position With Bright futures Ahead............then it comes Down to him and Harper we can still roll the dice on Harper but again that decision would be made on knowlege internally from the medico's and those who do say "phyc analysis" I would assume there would be one floating about the Club monitoring how players perform during their down periods

 

[Deadeyeroo]

Honestly, do you know any players and how they go about it? That is an insulting thing to say about any player.

I don't believe decisions about retaining players are left late in a season, the club would have at least internally set things they want each player to achieve, be it rehab or development or performances and would have decided the fate of players a long time ago.

We will find out what happens in due course, given his attributes and the lack of other options I would be loathed to part ways at least until other options have been recruited. With Wells playing stuff all for a second season in a row now and Boomer not getting any younger, we don't really have many players that look like they have much class and zip outside of Atley, Mullett and Harper.

As a matter of fact I do know a couple of players and a couple of ex players but not anyone from NM. Also used to work with a guy that used to go out with Carey on a regular basis, have many stories to tell about Wayne.

Ofcourse decisions about certain players on the list are made late in the season as well as early on. Most teams dont even find out if a club is picking a FA these days until after the season and that also has an impact on whether a player is kept.

You talk about class and zip lol. Atley is the only one thats shown this in the last 2 years. Harper hasnt shown any in the last 3. Whats the use of keeping guys on the list if they dont deliver anyway. Very few players come back from 2 or 3 years of poor footy in the VFL. Even Tarrant showed reasonable form in the VFL when his body allowed him to.

 

[Deadeyeroo]

Surely we keep nahas, I was furious when we picked him up but the guy seems to have matured immensely, and is deserving of a spot on our list.

Definitely deserves a spot on the list next year especially if Thomas is on the outs.

 

[Orange Peanut]

The difference is when Hansen and Tarrant were having injury or form issues they at least earned recalls into the senior team, Harper has not.

After next year some on this board will be calling for another year, when do you say enough is enough?

I can't speak for everyone, but I'll probably concede he's cooked if he hasn't played seniors by the time he's 36. If he's been emergency a couple of times that year, I'd give him 12 more months

 

[Tas]

As a matter of fact I do know a couple of players and a couple of ex players but not anyone from NM. Also used to work with a guy that used to go out with Carey on a regular basis, have many stories to tell about Wayne.

Duck played in an era that was still amateur football, I don't think the same standards apply to the current era.

There is an entire process for development these days, it is why Greenhead was on the 'outer' even though he was having a great season, the club had made a decision about him a long time ago about where he was at and how important he was to our side, our opinion obviously changed slightly, but only so much and he knew it which is why he left.

Ofcourse decisions about certain players on the list are made late in the season as well as early on. Most teams dont even find out if a club is picking a FA these days until after the season and that also has an impact on whether a player is kept.

It would be illogical if the club didn't know which players they were going to keep, or made decisions on the spur of the moment, some players may be given a reprieve if end of season trading/drafting do not go to plan, however, the assessment process would have been conducted and executed long before that player was given another opportunity, ie Nahas being cut last year and then given another chance as a rookie.

I think the decision either way has already been made on Harper. What is the club going to learn in the last month that they don't know over the last 5 odd years of him being at the club?

You talk about class and zip lol. Atley is the only one thats shown this in the last 2 years. Harper hasnt shown any in the last 3. Whats the use of keeping guys on the list if they dont deliver anyway. Very few players come back from 2 or 3 years of poor footy in the VFL. Even Tarrant showed reasonable form in the VFL when his body allowed him to.

The question you should be asking is, Have Mullett and Harper been injury free this season, had a good pre-season and still shown nothing?

If your answer is yes then you may well ask what is the point of keeping them. If your answer is no then you have to ask, what probability do they have of coming good physically, and what probability do they of getting their football back to where it was at prior to the injury problems. Then you have to look at what kind of picks you will have access to, what free agents are available, who is out of contract and how the feedback is with the potential movers' agents.

At the end of the day, if player X, Y or Z who hasn't offered diddly squat over the last two years is a better prospect than you are likely going to replace them with then the answer is self-explanatory.

Jacobs didn't show us squat during the period of his initial contract, was given a 1 year contract extension, he had a strong pre-season, changed his role and now he is an important player for us. Things can change relatively quickly, for the positive or negative.

His best case scenario would be a one year extension on minimum earnings, I'd love to see him back playing like he used to but this business is pretty brutal, his saving grace might be the number of players who are and might be retiring this season. If the club isn't confident that he can come good, they wont go through the motions.

 

[Deadeyeroo]

Duck played in an era that was still amateur football, I don't think the same standards apply to the current era.

There is an entire process for development these days, it is why Greenhead was on the 'outer' even though he was having a great season, the club had made a decision about him a long time ago about where he was at and how important he was to our side, our opinion obviously changed slightly, but only so much and he knew it which is why he left.



It would be illogical if the club didn't know which players they were going to keep, or made decisions on the spur of the moment, some players may be given a reprieve if end of season trading/drafting do not go to plan, however, the assessment process would have been conducted and executed long before that player was given another opportunity, ie Nahas being cut last year and then given another chance as a rookie.

I think the decision either way has already been made on Harper. What is the club going to learn in the last month that they don't know over the last 5 odd years of him being at the club?



The question you should be asking is, Have Mullett and Harper been injury free this season, had a good pre-season and still shown nothing?

If your answer is yes then you may well ask what is the point of keeping them. If your answer is no then you have to ask, what probability do they have of coming good physically, and what probability do they of getting their football back to where it was at prior to the injury problems. Then you have to look at what kind of picks you will have access to, what free agents are available, who is out of contract and how the feedback is with the potential movers' agents.

At the end of the day, if player X, Y or Z who hasn't offered diddly squat over the last two years is a better prospect than you are likely going to replace them with then the answer is self-explanatory.

Jacobs didn't show us squat during the period of his initial contract, was given a 1 year contract extension, he had a strong pre-season, changed his role and now he is an important player for us. Things can change relatively quickly, for the positive or negative.

His best case scenario would be a one year extension on minimum earnings, I'd love to see him back playing like he used to but this business is pretty brutal, his saving grace might be the number of players who are and might be retiring this season. If the club isn't confident that he can come good, they wont go through the motions.

I agree with most of what you've had to say but couldn't be bothered writing an essay on this little phone.

Let's agree to disagree that Harper needs to be delisted. I reckon a poll here would be about 50/50 anyway.

 

[kangaspurs]

I agree with most of what you've had to say but couldn't be bothered writing an essay on this little phone.

Let's agree to disagree that Harper needs to be delisted. I reckon a poll here would be about 50/50 anyway.

I actually think you would find that most would be more than happy to keep Harper on the list for another season, on the rookie list at the very least. Although I think the odds of him making it back into the team at all, let alone contributing regularly, are incredibly low personally I'm happy to keep him on the off chance that something does click. If he can get it together in the next 12 months the reward would significantly outweigh the very small risk involved in keeping him on the list because if he does get back to his best he offers a lot that we don't have.

 

[Tas]

I actually think you would find that most would be more than happy to keep Harper on the list for another season, on the rookie list at the very least. Although I think the odds of him making it back into the team at all, let alone contributing regularly, are incredibly low personally I'm happy to keep him on the off chance that something does click. If he can get it together in the next 12 months the reward would significantly outweigh the very small risk involved in keeping him on the list because if he does get back to his best he offers a lot that we don't have.

Reality is that it is very difficult as a 23 year old who hasn't really been in the side for 3 odd years to come back, it is not just the physical challenges, it is the mental/psychological challenges. Most players find the mind battle a lot harder than the struggle with the body. If the mind says no, the body will never deliver.

 

[kangaspurs]

Reality is that it is very difficult as a 23 year old who hasn't really been in the side for 3 odd years to come back, it is not just the physical challenges, it is the mental/psychological challenges. Most players find the mind battle a lot harder than the struggle with the body. If the mind says no, the body will never deliver.

I tend to agree. I just think there is very little downside in keeping him around for at least one more year and, however unlikely, potentially significant upside. If the comments from Harper and the attitude from the club, such as making him an emergency, are anything to go by then maybe he's now starting to regain some confidence and pick up whatever pieces are left of his career. I just think he's worth persisting with for 12 more months, and maybe longer if he can get it together.

 

[Tas]

I tend to agree. I just think there is very little downside in keeping him around for at least one more year and, however unlikely, potentially significant upside. If the comments from Harper and the attitude from the club, such as making him an emergency, are anything to go by then maybe he's now starting to regain some confidence and pick up whatever pieces are left of his career. I just think he's worth persisting with for 12 more months, and maybe longer if he can get it together.

It comes down to decisions we make with list management, if we decide to trade to get a high grade player then it is likely going to soak multiple picks and/or players, combined with retirements to Adams, Grima and possible retirement for Firrito and/or McMahon, maybe even Wells for all we know then there could be a lot less pressure in term of list positions.

I'd hate for us to punt him out just to replace him with a plodder we don't really need, because I think we need a lot more players with pace and class at the club and I am probably happier to wear a low probability of success trying to get Harper back to his best than a higher probability of plonking another solid yet unremarkable footballer given we have plenty of triers at the club.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I agree with most of what you've had to say but couldn't be bothered writing an essay on this little phone.

Let's agree to disagree that Harper needs to be delisted. I reckon a poll here would be about 50/50 anyway.

Can we do a poll? Would be very interesting...