Autopsy 28 point loss vs. GWS franchise

[William Caresser]

Spicer probably won't make it but he"s the least of our worries.

It's the flakey senior players who aren't fit by AFL standards, who play an OK game every third week, make basic skill errors most weeks, hack kick it forward and who try to kick low percentage goals instead of passing it and who are on anywhere from $400K to $750K a year. Those are the guys most responsible for us losing every week for 3 years.

 

[Yianni]

Me before fact checking: 'interesting view'

Me after fact checking: 'i hope this Yiannis is 24 hours into a bender at revolver, and is posting this from the couch next to the dance floor while waiting for his 30th pinga to kick in'

Ah, memories!

Well I'm TOLD they're memories. I don't really remember.

 

[Spud11]

Mate I feel your pain and you make some valid points about our list but considering where we are at it wasn’t that bad, chin up old man

It’s not that good. And it never is. It literally NEVER is anymore.

 

[Yianni]

He's got a great spirit but North of late have been very good at stripping away players' mental resolve. We've had several double digit leads in the last quarter since the start of last year, and we've often coughed up that lead as if a loss was a foregoing conclusion.

No one improved last year except for LDU. Our blokes' despondency and helplessness increased with each goal we conceded, before the inevitable blowout. Those scars still linger and we need to make sure they don't rub off on the young guys.

Wardlaw's been a nice injection of energy but if he doesn't see his teammates cracking in, he'll start wondering what the hell he's doing here. It's how team dynamics work. Even if the days of thrashings are generally behind us (we'll find out whether that's the case in the next few weeks) there's just a lingering stench of losing within the team. A lot of our blokes expect to lose and don't really think a win is achievable. We saw it against Sydney in the last quarter, we saw it today.

YOu're right that this is a relevant concern. But what I mean is that it won't happen four games in. Plus he's come in after we lost by ten goals for about two months, and we've been in most games. If we'd kept getting pumped I'd agree. It's not as bad as you think IMHO.

 

[Yianni]

Cyril's first year (and third year in brackets) vs. Spicer's third year.

Average Disposals
Cyril: 13.8 (17.3)
Spicer: 7

Average Goals
Cyril: 0.96 (1.35)
Spicer: 0.2

Average Marks
Cyril: 3.92 (4.05)
Spicer: 0.95

Average Tackles
Cyril: 3.48 (4.9)
Spicer: 4

The comparison is absolutely ridiculous.

Yes, I've acknowledged this. I was way off.

Delist.

 

[shintemaster]

 

[Souup]

Last ~5 minutes of the 1st quarter: 0.1 to 3.1
Last ~5 minutes of the 3rd quarter: 0.0 to 3.1

There's your game. We switched off at the back end of the 1st and 3rd quarters and that was enough to decide the game.

Not sure what this comes down to, but probably a mix of things: leadership, structure, inexperience, fatigue?

We need to concede less runs of goals within such a short amount of time. What killed us in recent weeks was slow starts where we'd conceded a 3-4 goal head start, but this week we started strongly and were instead punished in the last 5 minutes of the 1st and 3rd.

 

[Yianni]

Last 5 minutes of the 1st quarter: 0.1 to 3.1
Last 5 minutes of the 3rd quarter: 0.0 to 3.1

There's your game. We switched off at the back end of the 1st and 3rd quarters and that was enough to decide the game.

Not sure what this comes down to, but probably a mix of things: leadership, structure, inexperience?

Yes, it's that. And those three things are all interlinked with concentration, decision-making, fitness, etc.

 

[Devington]

Well that sucked. In it at half time and then just fell away slowly.

Oddly enough Cunnington as sub may have given us the win. The youngsters just weren't able to keep chugging along all game, duct taping cunners to the ruckman half way through the third would have hella relieved that.

Of course we also might have won it if Hall wasn't pox for the majority of the game, with the exception of a 10 minute purple patch when the game was still in the balance. Or if JZ was as effective as earlier in the year. Or if Cam, Sleevo, and Curtis (2 of the 3 are senior players now) weren't largely invisible.

CCJ's marking continues to be a mystery. Can clunk some unbelievable marks flying across the pack one second and then the next second has the ball bounce off his hands while in prime position the whole time. Needs some goal kicking practise too. Ruck practice also wouldn't go astray. lol. Sounds grim I guess but he seems improved on last year at least, and I've got no option but to hope and pray he continuers to improve what with that long contract he has.

Spicer. Two great tackles deserve highlighting, and they should be highlight to him. Too many of his tackles resemble cuddles, but he is capable of taking down a big fella when he sets his mind to it. While I can say something good about his defensive game, his offensive game is best untalked about. I still think he doesn't have what it takes to forge a career, but his movement is frequently dangerous (even if the actions that go with it aren't) and he is capable of genuine defensive pressure so I understand why they keep giving him opportunities. If he can keep incrementally improving then there would be far worse rookie options. However if what we've seen, with half the year gone, is his peak then he's goneski.

Wardlaw is great; nuff said.

Last but not least, suck it Carlton. I hope Essendon pantses you, and you remain bottom 4 after GWS put you there earlier. Amen.

 

[Yianni]

Yeah just on this point. The point of difference George offers as a first year player is that he ALWYS goes straight at the man. He doesn’t corral or zone off. The opposition have no time when he is around. Our players and coaches could learn a lot from this.

Absolutely.

Too often, and Hall is the worst at this, players try to be too clever and read what's about to happen when they're still in the hunt to be the person who makes what happens happen.

Obviously it's not always the right thing to do, sometimes it's right to stand off the contest, or shield the ball rather than take possession. But Wardlaw's instincts on this are great, and a lot of our player's instincts on this are not.

 

[Samsquanch]

Toby Greene killed us again. I wish he had of connected when he tried to leg Corr in that last ten minutes. Little flykicking flog doesn’t learn.

I thought it was interesting that the name Dustin Fletcher came up when tackling with a foot was mentioned.

 

[William Caresser]

Last ~5 minutes of the 1st quarter: 0.1 to 3.1
Last ~5 minutes of the 3rd quarter: 0.0 to 3.1

There's your game. We switched off at the back end of the 1st and 3rd quarters and that was enough to decide the game.

Not sure what this comes down to, but probably a mix of things: leadership, structure, inexperience, fatigue?

We need to concede less runs of goals within such a short amount of time. What killed us in recent weeks was slow starts where we'd conceded a 3-4 goal head start, but this week we started strongly and were instead punished in the last 5 minutes of the 1st and 3rd.

Watching the games live it's so clearly fitness. Last week in the 3rd and 4th quarters we had guys looking like they were running in quick sand. Ziebell and others getting torched in transition - their legs lactic - while Essendon piled on 3 or 4 in a row. Skill errors follow the fatigue. Very few running to present, no one to kick to.

 

[Eggs11]

Our core is coming along well, but our depth is garbage.

Spicer
Hall
Corr
Curtis
McKay (every second week)
MCDonald is our captain FFS


That’s 1/4 of our team that are scarcely VFL level. As much as I like the idea of Harley Reid, we need quantity as much as quality.

Get the Wizard and Miles Bergman in. Brandon George in for Spicer/ Curtis. Get LDU back and swap TT into defence and we are suddenly a much better team.

 

[ChopChopDigDig]

Spicer probably won't make it but he"s the least of our worries.

It's the flakey senior players who aren't fit by AFL standards, who play an OK game every third week, make basic skill errors most weeks, hack kick it forward and who try to kick low percentage goals instead of passing it and who are on anywhere from $400K to $750K a year. Those are the guys most responsible for us losing every week for 3 years.

Yep. We've been making excuses like 'young kids need senior leadership' for years now, but our fringe kids are worse off than throwing them into the firsts. Still getting smashed each week, but JZ and LMAC high fiving and telling the boys 'it's ok, good effort' has set low standards. If we're going to lose by 60+, or lose every game in Hobart, might as well be with kids building their own standards and culture.

Hawthorn took the alternative route and cut their list deep. They'll know which kids will/won't make it much faster than we will.

 

[Dodecahedron]

All I know is that there seemed to be a fair bit of squibbing today.

 

[berniemccarthy]

Look. It wasn’t horrible, but I look at a team like Hawthorn, arguably earlier in a rebuild than us yet performing better. How is that happening?

Hawks have 2 good forwards to kick it to. We have 1. They have two good central defenders. We have 1. We get it in quicker but it comes back even quicker. We can’t defend multiple entries.

Our core is coming along well, but our depth is garbage.

Spicer
Hall
Corr
Curtis
McKay (every second week)
MCDonald is our captain FFS


That’s 1/4 of our team that are scarcely VFL level. As much as I like the idea of Harley Reid, we need quantity as much as quality.

Get the Wizard and Miles Bergman in. Brandon George in for Spicer/ Curtis. Get LDU back and swap TT into defence and we are suddenly a much better team.

Curtis has ability. He needs to play further up the ground as he did late in the game. He is very creative. Needs to get more of it. Spicer just does not do enough to keep an average player out. That hideous error in cutting inside when a player 20 away and 20 clear is unforgivable. Hall is done. Has been for weeks. Calls for it anywhere and doesn’t even look around when he does. Corr let Hogan mark on the line next to him and did absolutely nothing. Luke was alright. Won the first half against Greene. Lost when TG went on the ball. What do you expect. TG one of the top 6 players in the comp. Should have put Shiels on him. The free against McKay is representative of the breaks we get. Hall out. Flynn in. Played well in the 2s. Won’t run as much but hopefully doesn’t eff it up as much. Spicer out. Jy in.

 

[Tectonic]

Milquetoast

 

[Mav]

Lots of people passing judgment today. Did you all travel to the game? Good effort.

Cause sure as hell you wouldn’t dare make judgement on players games after watching on TV. That’s just not allowed.

 

[winalotroos]

Lots of people passing judgment today. Did you all travel to the game? Good effort.

Cause sure as hell you wouldn’t dare make judgement on players games after watching on TV. That’s just not allowed.

Very true, I thought I must have missed something, everyone knows the weakness in the team I would like to focus on the positives and when we get some guys back that will replace the deadwood things will turn.

 

[zoomba23]

Watching the games live it's so clearly fitness. Last week in the 3rd and 4th quarters we had guys looking like they were running in quick sand. Ziebell and others getting torched in transition - their legs lactic - while Essendon piled on 3 or 4 in a row. Skill errors follow the fatigue. Very few running to present, no one to kick to.

At some point around 2020, our fitness dropped below acceptable levels, and we still haven't bridged that gap. Farcical really

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Things could be worse, we could be Carlton.

 

[The acurate one]

Things could be worse, we could be Carlton.

Yes and we could have the other Magoo brother.

 

[shinboner magic]

Senior players out with the exception of shiels , Greenwood and Goldy as Backup
In saying that should of probably played cunners today as the kids got beat up today due to bigger bodies
Hall pathetic
Lmac your dad probably moves better than you
Jack you’re a warrior but your sideway kicks are gutless
Goldy you got smashed Today
Bergman , sleevo , PC,CZ Tucker had shockers
George was a warrior
Sheeze ,Powell and wilphi were ok
Souva and TT were good
CCJ another nearly game
Scott gave us plenty

 

[RHLK]

Funky Bergman fumbling his way onto the bench was upsetting, but we would be clapping our genitalia between house bricks to drop him next week.

 

[Spud11]

Things could be worse, we could be Carlton.

I chose this club in ‘94, watched them saved from the brink in ‘07.. Only to be sitting here in 2023 comparing us to literally the only club less successful than us in the past 28 years as some sort of macabre positive.

Life’s good