Player Watch #34: Jack Graham - MOVED TO WCE - PICK 42 Received

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Meteoric Rise said:
You are proof that stats can be misused to suit a pre-determined position.

Richmond's record in 2021-22-23 is better with Jack Graham in the team than it is without him in the team. Which supports the selectors picking him whenever he is fit, does it not?
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Rubbish his numbers have dropped since he started. Your argument is silly and that’s the point I’m making. I didn’t start all this tripe I’m just trying to prove to you it’s the most ridiculous hypotheses you’ve drummed up.
I also have a major reason why his W/L record has dropped it’s bc of your mate Loo.
Loo hasn’t told him to get on the track more to get all that fat of his butt . lol 😝
 
TigerImposter said:
Rubbish his numbers have dropped since he started. Your argument is silly and that’s the point I’m making. I didn’t start all this tripe I’m just trying to prove to you it’s the most ridiculous hypotheses you’ve drummed up.
I also have a major reason why his W/L record has dropped it’s bc of your mate Loo.
Loo hasn’t told him to get on the track more to get all that fat of his butt . lol 😝
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His numbers have dropped? Please explain that to the sceptical amongst us. What do you mean his numbers have dropped since he started?
 

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Meteoric Rise said:
Isn't it funny how your variables seem to run in favour of players who keep getting picked when you think they shouldn't be....

And against Noah Cumberland who certain posters on here think should be picked more than he is.....

People wonder why certain selections occur and their favourite kick chasers are eschewed by selectors for their own less favoured "out of form" role players and pressure players. I give them the answer on a plate, and the richoplzbreed 's of the world hate it because it exposes their lack of understanding of what makes the team win. Which I love. :hearteyes:

You make the team win, you are in. You make the team lose, then be sexy in the VFL friend. :)
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What is the win loss ratio of players in the last 2 years, because that is what matters. Of course the win loss ratio is going to be skewed in favour of those players who played across our winning years versus those who have played in our losing years.

All of the players mentioned from Pickett down have come in when we have lost more than we have won, then of course variables like best players missing will further skew figures. No Lynch has really hurt us, you could argue that Cumberland would be a far better player roving/playing around a player like Lynch rather than Ryan and Miller.

Cumberland's win loss ratio when he came in last year, was 50%, 75% for the last 4 games when we got it all together finally, and you could argue that we were robbed in the final, so effectively it should have been 100%.
 
TigerImposter said:
He started at 100% W/L 😂
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So let me get this straight....

You are arguing that because Richmond won the first 6 games of Graham's career in 2017-18, the selectors should ignore the fact he is having a positive impact on the results of the team's results in 2023? :think:

If you don't mind me saying imposter, your argument is a little bit tenuous. To say the least. :)
 
Meteoric Rise said:
So let me get this straight....

You are arguing that because Richmond won the first 6 games of Graham's career in 2017-18, the selectors should ignore the fact he is having a positive impact on the results of the team's results in 2023? :think:

If you don't mind me saying imposter, your argument is a little bit tenuous. To say the least. :)
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no you’re ignoring your original concept. Anyhow it’s Loo’s fault. 😆😎
 
Grrr said:
What is the win loss ratio of players in the last 2 years, because that is what matters. Of course the win loss ratio is going to be skewed in favour of those players who played across our winning years versus those who have played in our losing years.

All of the players mentioned from Pickett down have come in when we have lost more than we have won, then of course variables like best players missing will further skew figures. No Lynch has really hurt us, you could argue that Cumberland would be a far better player roving/playing around a player like Lynch rather than Ryan and Miller.

Cumberland's win loss ratio when he came in last year, was 50%, 75% for the last 4 games when we got it all together finally, and you could argue that we were robbed in the final, so effectively it should have been 100%.
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Graham 2022-23 combined:

Richmond with Graham - 19w 13l 59% win ratio

Richmond without Graham - 2w 4l 33% win ratio


Cumberland 2022-23 combined:

Richmond with Cumberland - 4.5w 8.5l 35% win ratio

Richmond without Cumberland - 16.5w 8.5l 66% win ratio


It just could not be more stark.


Regarding which of these players' games have coincided more with Lynch playing in that period...

Overall across the last 2 seasons it is:

Graham 18(11.5w 6.5l) with Lynch 14 without Lynch. Graham's without Lynch record in this period is 7.5 wins and 6.5 losses. 54% win rate.

Cumberland 6(4w 2l) with Lynch, 7 without Lynch. Cumberland's without Lynch record in this period is 0.5 wins and 6.5 losses. 7% win rate.

Again, could not be more stark.

Players whose presence in the team coincides with the team performing better, somehow magically get selected more often than players whose presence in the team coincides with the team performing worse. Were that not the case, I would not have so much faith in the selectors. :)
 
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Meteoric Rise said:
Graham 2022-23 combined:

Richmond with Graham - 19w 13l 59% win ratio

Richmond without Graham - 2w 4l 33% win ratio


Cumberland 2022-23 combined:

Richmond with Cumberland - 4.5w 8.5l 35% win ratio

Richmond without Cumberland - 16.5w 8.5l 66% win ratio


It just could not be more stark.


Regarding which have these players' games have coincided more with Lynch playing in that period...

Overall across the last 2 seasons it is:

Graham 18(11.5w 6.5l) with Lynch 14 without Lynch. Graham's without Lynch record in this period is 7.5 wins and 6.5 losses. 54% win rate.

Cumberland 6(4w 2l) with Lynch, 7 without Lynch. Cumberland's without Lynch record in this period is 0.5 wins and 6.5 losses. 7% win rate.

Again, could not be more stark.

Players whose presence in the team coincides with the team performing better, somehow magically get selected more often than players whose presence in the team coincides with the team performing worse. Were that not the case, I would not have so much faith in the selectors. :)
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I believe that stats add to an argument, but they certainly do not make things are so 'stark'. So many factors in a the reason why a side wins and loses, and two minor players, especially Cumberland who played this season when we were awful all over the park earlier in the season, hardly make a difference.

How much was Cumberland responsible against Brisbane for example when we could barely make it past the wings much less deep forward. Although to be fair, Cumberland against Brisbane kicked the same amount of goals as Miller, Ryan and Riewoldt combined, and took the same number of marks as their sum total as well.
 
domin8 said:
Still a lot of dinosaurs that dont understand the need and necessity of a role player, and all that entails
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I'm seeing it a bit differently. ROLE players are important for sure, But replaceable/tradeable as they are USUALLY $300-400K players (Broady is one that jumps out and deserves more) that are fit, eager and capable of following a plan, it helps if they are durable, versatile, extremely fit, tallish, good decision makers and can lock down and snare a goal or 2. there are heaps of them around and its fair enough to say that if Jack continues to be injury prone, can't keep up with the flow on multiple occasions and has fluctuating form, Its OK to comment that he is under the pump to retain his spot now and be financially viable on our list in 2024.
 
tropicaltiger said:
I'm seeing it a bit differently. ROLE players are important for sure, But replaceable/tradeable as they are USUALLY $300-400K players (Broady is one that jumps out and deserves more) that are fit, eager and capable of following a plan, it helps if they are durable, versatile, extremely fit, tallish, good decision makers and can lock down and snare a goal or 2. there are heaps of them around and its fair enough to say that if Jack continues to be injury prone, can't keep up with the flow on multiple occasions and has fluctuating form, Its OK to comment that he is under the pump to retain his spot now and be financially viable on our list in 2024.
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This role player terminology is a description used by childish fanboys who don't understand that every single player on the ground has a role to play. It's a term disguised to hide the deficiencies a player has , so it's flung around by the fanboys to give the player a purpose for stealing oxygen on a football field.
Now Graham's role was originally a tagging mid and HFF, then they tried him in the guts as a BBMF , but he got torched for pace. They've also tried him on the Wing occasionally for being found out for pace and leap and recently it's a HFF role, but unless it rains and less speed and skills are required he again can't keep up.
We are basically trying to find a spot for him and it's not working bc he's too slow. We needed him during the GF days as we were a hell of a lot faster and he could then fulfil his role of a tagging/ hf, but with an ageing list and slow FL he's now exposed. He still maybe able to come back to this role if mrj and a Coulthard or Green come on as they will replace the Castagna/ DRioli/ Butler combination. I still think he's limited now bc he can't even get off the ground, so aerially is another issue with him. He was unlucky we got TT and JH as they're both slow so we need more speed around them and again he can't do this . He for our safety of risking him retiring in our vfl paddock as a Clydesdale on Winx tucker needs to be moved on before he depreciates to this.

Moral of the story is every player is a role player and if an individual is unable to perform their roles then they need upgrading. This is the major reason why a VFL/AFL premiership side in the history of the game has never saddled up again as one.
 
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TigerImposter said:
This role player terminology is a description used by childish fanboys who don't understand that every single player on the ground has a role to play. It's a term disguised to hide the deficiencies a player has , so it's flung around by the fanboys to give the player a purpose for stealing oxygen on a football field.
Now Graham's role was originally a tagging mid and HFF, then they tried him in the guts as a BBMF , but he got torched for pace. They've also tried him on the Wing occasionally for being found out for pace and leap and recently it's a HFF role, but unless it rains and less speed and skills are required he again can't keep up.
We are basically trying to find a spot for him and it's not working bc he's too slow. We needed him during the GF days as we were a hell of a lot faster and he could then fulfil his role of a tagging/ hf, but with an ageing list and slow FL he's now exposed. He still maybe able to come back to this role if mrj and a Coulthard or Green come on as they will replace the Castagna/ DRioli/ Butler combination. I still think he's limited now bc he can't even get off the ground, so aerially is another issue with him. He was unlucky we got TT and JH as they're both slow so we need more speed around them and again he can't do this . He for our safety of risking him retiring in our vfl paddock as a Clydesdale on Winx tucker needs to be moved on before he depreciates to this.

Moral of the story is every player is a role player and if an individual is unable to perform their roles then they need upgrading. This is the major reason why a VFL/AFL premiership side in the history of the game has never saddled up again as one.
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Lol that’s harsh TI for mine there’s role players and there’s the rare few that have a license , that is to do the fuq they like ,,,think dusty , think shai
 
Bojangles17 said:
Lol that’s harsh TI for mine there’s role players and there’s the rare few that have a license , that is to do the fuq they like ,,,think dusty , think shai
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No that’s their role Bo.
Every player has a role and if they can’t perform it then they need to improve or move on.
 
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I refrain from this thread but I don't get all the Graham hate. He's always been a little slow and always had clangers but what he has is a will to tackle get in the thick of things and contribute. That's a lot more than some others get to do. The guy just won us a game and he still gets trolled. He ain't a superstar he is what most clubs wish they had.
 

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Player Watch #34: Jack Graham - MOVED TO WCE - PICK 42 Received

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