Player Watch #38 Noah Cumberland - Delisted

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Dr Tigris said:
Cumbo's biggest problem is the combo of Dusty and Shai. They are simply awesome playing/resting forward. They are more valuable than Noah, so he has to find a way of fitting in around them.

I personally see both Dusty and Shai as more value in the midfield, with rests forward.

If we rejig the team structure there is a spot for Cumbo to shine doing what he does well. And I reckon if we had 3 guys playing in 2 positions (attacking mid + forward) we have a stronger team.

There's a spot for him, but he has to add weapons to his arsenal, and work harder. Plus if the coaches adjust the squad he has a spot. Under Dimma he was in direct competition with 2 of the best players in the AFL.
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Essentially all forwards have to concentrate as a collective group with the defensive aspects that last season where left to the likes of Mansell and MRJ. That sort of thing didn't come naturally to Cumberland, hence working with Bolton and Dusty didn't work in Dimma's plans.

Brisbane play about 3 or 4 very offensively minded players, but they all work well defensively as a unit. It's not that hard.
 
Muddiemoose said:
Bar Mansell none of those players kept Cumbo out of the side because they play completely different positions

And Mansell wasn’t exactly gifted games he played his role well and did his fair share of work as the sub
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Graham and Pickett spent time in the fwd line. I HOPE Pickett wing JG VFL.
 
Dr Tigris said:
Cumbo's biggest problem is the combo of Dusty and Shai. They are simply awesome playing/resting forward. They are more valuable than Noah, so he has to find a way of fitting in around them.

I personally see both Dusty and Shai as more value in the midfield, with rests forward.

If we rejig the team structure there is a spot for Cumbo to shine doing what he does well. And I reckon if we had 3 guys playing in 2 positions (attacking mid + forward) we have a stronger team.

There's a spot for him, but he has to add weapons to his arsenal, and work harder. Plus if the coaches adjust the squad he has a spot. Under Dimma he was in direct competition with 2 of the best players in the AFL.
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could try him on the wing as an attacking winger. forward pocket is his most likely position. his 2022 form would easily be in the best 22.
 

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Grrr said:
Essentially all forwards have to concentrate as a collective group with the defensive aspects that last season where left to the likes of Mansell and MRJ. That sort of thing didn't come naturally to Cumberland, hence working with Bolton and Dusty didn't work in Dimma's plans.

Brisbane play about 3 or 4 very offensively minded players, but they all work well defensively as a unit. It's not that hard.
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Yep, unbelievably, most of their fwds are considered elite defensively(statistically speaking) and theyre still weapons offensively. It can be done and like you said really not that hard as long as the buy in is there from everyone
 
Dr Tigris said:
Cumbo's biggest problem is the combo of Dusty and Shai. They are simply awesome playing/resting forward. They are more valuable than Noah, so he has to find a way of fitting in around them.

I personally see both Dusty and Shai as more value in the midfield, with rests forward.

If we rejig the team structure there is a spot for Cumbo to shine doing what he does well. And I reckon if we had 3 guys playing in 2 positions (attacking mid + forward) we have a stronger team.

There's a spot for him, but he has to add weapons to his arsenal, and work harder. Plus if the coaches adjust the squad he has a spot. Under Dimma he was in direct competition with 2 of the best players in the AFL.
Click to expand...
Really hoping Shai plays 90% midfield next season. He should be ready to become a bonafide full time mid. We need his agility and speed through the middle with Dusty and Noah predominantly forward. If it's true Baker has been training with the mids it makes for potentially the best starting midfield @ Richmond in the past 20 years.

Shai could win a brownlow if played full time mid IMO. He's flashy, fast, takes high marks, wins contested ball and kicks goals. Umps would love him.
 
Muddiemoose said:
Bar Mansell none of those players kept Cumbo out of the side because they play completely different positions

And Mansell wasn’t exactly gifted games he played his role well and did his fair share of work as the sub
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Same principle irrespective of position. The players I named should be hauled over the coals and criticised way before anyone even questions Cumberland, who has not been given a sufficient run of games to establish.

And yes, Mansell was gifted games.
 
tiger_tough said:
Really hoping Shai plays 90% midfield next season. He should be ready to become a bonafide full time mid. We need his agility and speed through the middle with Dusty and Noah predominantly forward. If it's true Baker has been training with the mids it makes for potentially the best starting midfield @ Richmond in the past 20 years.

Shai could win a brownlow if played full time mid IMO. He's flashy, fast, takes high marks, wins contested ball and kicks goals. Umps would love him.
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Dunno about this. I agree on all those attributes for Shai but if he just kicked straighter the guy is 25 touch 40 goal a year mid/forward. Probably the most valuable type on a list. Don’t see Cumberland having anything like that potential.
 
Sir_Loin said:
Dunno about this. I agree on all those attributes for Shai but if he just kicked straighter the guy is 25 touch 40 goal a year mid/forward. Probably the most valuable type on a list. Don’t see Cumberland having anything like that potential.
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25 touches per week and 40 goals is peak Dustin Martin level when he had the greatest season ever recorded, and that was the year he played mostly midfield. That'd be nice.

Cumberland already averages 1.5 goals per game, I don't see why he couldn't get that up to 2+ gpg next year in a good system.
 
tiger_tough said:
Really hoping Shai plays 90% midfield next season. He should be ready to become a bonafide full time mid. We need his agility and speed through the middle with Dusty and Noah predominantly forward. If it's true Baker has been training with the mids it makes for potentially the best starting midfield @ Richmond in the past 20 years.

Shai could win a brownlow if played full time mid IMO. He's flashy, fast, takes high marks, wins contested ball and kicks goals. Umps would love him.
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Just rewatched his draft video this morning. How he got to pick 29 is one of the great mysteries. Maybe clubs weren’t prepared to back in their culture with indigenous kids from WA. Dunno, but bloody hell.

I can understand how you’d miss workman-like mids who do nothing spectacular and maybe be on the small side or lack pace but he had a highlight reel of extreme skill.

I said it here at the time after watching him glide down the wing at Freo Oval. Couple of bounces, swerving run and a long goal.

Closest I’ve seen in style to Peter Matera.
 
tiger_tough said:
25 touches per week and 40 goals is peak Dustin Martin level when he had the greatest season ever recorded, and that was the year he played mostly midfield. That'd be nice.

Cumberland already averages 1.5 goals per game, I don't see why he couldn't get that up to 2+ gpg next year in a good system.
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I'd take 1.5 and 15 disposals 2-3 tackles from Cumberland

Noah needs to look at players like Papley , Warner , Higgins , Bailey etc
Kid needs to more involved in games and when things dont go his way not to fake injuries and sook but work even harder
 
Maurice Mitchell said:
Just rewatched his draft video this morning. How he got to pick 29 is one of the great mysteries. Maybe clubs weren’t prepared to back in their culture with indigenous kids from WA. Dunno, but bloody hell.

I can understand how you’d miss workman-like mids who do nothing spectacular and maybe be on the small side or lack pace but he had a highlight reel of extreme skill.

I said it here at the time after watching him glide down the wing at Freo Oval. Couple of bounces, swerving run and a long goal.

Closest I’ve seen in style to Peter Matera.
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He was a project player back then which proved accurate. Not many teams take project players that early.
 
Maurice Mitchell said:
Just rewatched his draft video this morning. How he got to pick 29 is one of the great mysteries. Maybe clubs weren’t prepared to back in their culture with indigenous kids from WA. Dunno, but bloody hell.

I can understand how you’d miss workman-like mids who do nothing spectacular and maybe be on the small side or lack pace but he had a highlight reel of extreme skill.

I said it here at the time after watching him glide down the wing at Freo Oval. Couple of bounces, swerving run and a long goal.

Closest I’ve seen in style to Peter Matera.
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Hes far more gifted than Peter Matera - Boltons contribution to the Team is where he stops liarising with the ball - gives it off to players in a better position who are able to score - the later half of 2023 he was playing more responsible football still maintaining his skilful plays
 

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Pattiger said:
Hes far more gifted than Peter Matera - Boltons contribution to the Team is where he stops liarising with the ball - gives it off to players in a better position who are able to score - the later half of 2023 he was playing more responsible football still maintaining his skilful plays
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You may be right. Although Matera is an all-time great.

Like bowling actions in cricket, no two players are the same but my comparison to Matera was when running down the wing, long strides, bouncing the ball, swerving movements and bombing a long goal.

And, agreed, removing the lairising would be a great step forward.
 
Pattiger said:
Hes far more gifted than Peter Matera - Boltons contribution to the Team is where he stops liarising with the ball - gives it off to players in a better position who are able to score - the later half of 2023 he was playing more responsible football still maintaining his skilful plays
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Dare you to mention that on the WC board.
 
Pattiger said:
Hes far more gifted than Peter Matera - Boltons contribution to the Team is where he stops liarising with the ball - gives it off to players in a better position who are able to score - the later half of 2023 he was playing more responsible football still maintaining his skilful plays
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Bolton is far more gifted than a lot of AFL players, in terms of things he can do, where he's behind a lot of AFL players though (including past players) is everything he CAN do, he doesn't do all that consistently.

Bolton can be very sloppy on field, hopefully continuing maturity helps his game.

His ceiling is right up there, what will take him to the next level is raising his floor.
 
Selling Matera short there, the guy is an all time great. At the same time i think we sell Bolton short too, 2022 he was a top 5 player in the AFL. 2023 was slightly down on output but was still an elite season. If he can just tidy up the lairising, he will be one of if not the best players in the comp over the next 5 years
 
Maurice Mitchell said:
Just rewatched his draft video this morning. How he got to pick 29 is one of the great mysteries. Maybe clubs weren’t prepared to back in their culture with indigenous kids from WA. Dunno, but bloody hell.

I can understand how you’d miss workman-like mids who do nothing spectacular and maybe be on the small side or lack pace but he had a highlight reel of extreme skill.

I said it here at the time after watching him glide down the wing at Freo Oval. Couple of bounces, swerving run and a long goal.

Closest I’ve seen in style to Peter Matera.
Click to expand...
During the year he was touted mid first round. Very odd
 
Peter Matera was bog average...................... when pitted against the mighty Nathan Bower.

Bower shaded Matera regularly. One of the great mysteries of football.
 
Hank Heavenly said:
he's no where near Patera Matera's level yet.

He can can some freaky things on a footy field, but you are seriously underrating Matera here, and Matera was a hell of a lot more consistent, and did it for an extended period of time.
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Matera was a fantastic winger, who had a great career, that is undeniable. He rightly wins kudos for his excellent finals record. In finals, he averaged around:

  • 19 disposals
  • 1.1 goals
  • 3.4 tackles

Over 2 seasons aged 23-24(his 3rd and 4th seasons which brought him to Bolton's current age) Matera averaged:

  • 21 disposals
  • 1.26 goals(assists not recorded)
  • 2.5 tackles
  • I will presume 7 contested possessions
  • 0.5 Brownlow votes per match

Contested possessions is not available for most of his career but from what I can make out he probably averaged 7 or less over his career. He had 3 seasons above 13 Brownlow votes:

1991 18 votes at 22yo
1994 28 votes at 25yo
1997 21 votes at 28yo

So let's compare Bolton's last 2 seasons with Matera's 2 seasons at the same age. Matera left/Bolton right:

Disposals 21 v 20
Goals 1.26 v 1.61
Assists n/a v 0.78(elite)
Tackles 2.5 v 2.56
Contested possessions estimated 7 v 9.4
Brownlow votes 0.5 v 0.58 per home and away match


They play different positions in different eras of course, but Bolton at the same age is clearly in that type of company, at the very least.
 
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Player Watch #38 Noah Cumberland - Delisted

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