Player Watch #38 Noah Cumberland - Delisted

[shaky]

I get it.

If you are a Noah supporter then you probably have been since day one and - you give great weight to every one of his positive actions and statistics. You downplay his deficiencies or not see them. You find stats and parts to his game that are great that no one else can see.

If you are not a Noah supporter and you probably haven’t been ever- you downplay anything he does well or any of the positive stats. You highlight everything he does poorly even if others do or have done the same thing. You see bad things he does or doesn’t do that no one else can.

Calling on neutrals to tell us if he will make it or not so we can finally get some peace.

I don't think you can be neutral, for the Cumbo lovers it goes with the old saying, if you aren't with us your against us.
Personally I try to judge all players as I see them. Every player does things right and things wrong, hell, even the GOAT can make some terrible kick turnovers, but you know with Dusty he's trying a bullet pass to hit someone and more often than not I comes off, when it doesn't it looks terrible.
Cumbo doesn't get 30 a game so doesn't have the same credits to go against his errors.
I get a lot of Justin Plapp vibes with Cumbo.
We were all excited for Plapp when he got his chance and he didn't disappoint in his early games before fading away into AFL obscurity.
No doubt Cumbo hits the scoreboard and looks dangerous, the question is, does he provide anything else when he's struggling to hit the scoreboard?
Last time I was able to watch him live he was running well and putting on pressure which was positive.
With a forward line of 6 and perhaps one bench spot for the rest of the year we have Lynch, Dusty, Bolton, with a mix of (in no particular order) Cumbo, Campbell, Mansell, Graham with Ryan/Kozi as a second tall option and MRJ to come back.
He will need to keep performing at the minimum he has for the last few week to hold his spot

 

[shaky]

There is a good reason why I watch the game, anylise it from there, THE OLD SAYING is to use your eyes. Cumbo is the reverse of TT. People make up stats to hate on him and in TTs case they worship his stats to inflate his importance.

Your probably right.
Things like in the last game Cumbo had 5 pressure acts (equal third lowest, only above McAuliffe and Broad) and Tarranto a team high 28 equal with Mansel.
Cumbo kicked 3 goals, a fantastic return for a medium forward. Outside that there ain't much in the stats to hang his hat on.
So if he doesn't keep kicking 2 or more goals a game he may struggle to hold his spot based on that.
And you say use your eyes, what hurt my eyes was seeing a probable goal turned over by his brain fart. Those are the sort of things he has to get out of his game, particularly while he is walking the tightrope of holding his spot in the team.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

If you’re going to compare a player you put up a list of all the players in his position as a comparison and leveller. Not just two of the best in the game who are in top teams and have had longer careers. Again it’s you abusing stats to carry your hate agenda on a player.
I’m a fence sitter with him, but he gets credit and my love if he plays a serviceable game and beyond. That’s how all true Tiger supporters should be if a player turns the corner and is showing improvement, rather than misusing stats to still kick him. I think you need to go do something constructive elsewhere rather than carrying on in here downgrading Cumberland after playing a game that had he been absent we would’ve lost. There were genuine passengers we carried Thursday night and I haven’t seen your critique of their games with stats to this stage which tells me you’re definitely a Cumberland pitch forker. Your comparison is so biased and out of whack bc you’re basically saying he’s not up with the best so he’s not up to standard, which then means every other similar player below their stats is not up to standard.
It would be as useless as putting up Ryan’s stats against Gawn and Grundy’s. Had you put stats of all three players after the same number of games it may have slightly disguised your agenda.

Haha, a nice collection of outraged responses to my post. I will start with you TI as nobody exhibits outrage better than you.

The reason I compared him to Papley and Cameron is that they were the two I could readily think of who play in the small forward position and play the role in a similar way to what Cumberland is trying to do. Ie not as a pressure forward or high half forward, but as an explosive specialist small forward who principally tries to score goals, or assist goals. Others I could think of now are Stengle, Liam Ryan, Weightman, Toby Greene, Higgins, K Pickett, B Hill/Elliott, Owies, Ginnivan, Willi Rioli. Maybe Walters, Breust to list some older players.

This is a fair basket of players playing the role people are thinking Cumberland should be playing for us. Anyone else who plays that type of role pretty exclusively for any other team doesn't get selected regularly. Some teams don't normally have a particular player playing that role, like Bombers will use Langford/Stringer, and someone like Gresham spends a lot more time up the ground. We use Bolton/Martin. Crows use Rankine/Rachele.

But what Cumberland would be trying to get to in AFL ranks is playing as a small forward who hangs around goals and tries to turn inside 50's into goals for the team. The players who largely play the role this way are the most dangerous small forwards in the AFL. Greene, Weightman, Cameron, Papley, Higgins, Stengle, Liam Ryan.

Cameron and Papley are not the 2 best of these players in the AFL. They are just 2 of quite a few good ones. That is what Cumberland is trying to get to. He is 23yo, and nowhere near it.

#TigerImposter is Actually right

Pressure acts as recorded by ChampionData are pressure on the ball carrier only.

It does not record defensive pressure that is applied to prevent other players receiving the ball

Thank you, someone has finally given me some detail about what TigerImposter might have seen Cumberland doing that amounted to high defensive pressure that didn't constitute pressure acts, of which he had only 5. What I would now be interested to know is did Cumberland apply defensive pressure to prevent other players receiving the ball to a high level, ie well above average for an AFL forward? Or did he merely do what is expected of any AFL forward in this regard? Or not even that?

Mate the kid has played 23 games ffs…

Comparing him to 2 of the best small forwards in the comp.. what is wrong with you?
Did those guys average those sort of numbers in their first 23 games?

Give him a break
23 games ffs, let the kid settle before being so harsh on him

He seriously is judged by a different set of standards from so many here it’s crazy

Cumberland is 23 years of age. Have a look at say Jack Higgins stats as a 23yo(2022) and compare it with Cumberland in 2024 if you like. Or any of these others guys I listed above.

Or look at all of them. Cumberland is the lowest for player rating, disposals, goals + assists, score involvements, pressure acts. Unless you can find someone lower in any of those things as a 23yo. He is by far below the average of that group. Where teams have a player in that role performing at the level Cumberland is performing this season, they are not normally a permanent fixture in the team, or at least in the role.

.
You give me the terrible impression of a person who has never read the counterview to your own stand points. At least on this matter.

Pretty insular thinking. The guy has played 23 games! At least use Papley and Cameron's stats after 23 games as a starting point. My God.

Sharpen up!

Papley was way above what Cumberland is doing in 2024 when he was 20, 21, 22 and 23 - in every one of those seasons separately.

And guess what?

You got it beema, Charlie Cameron by his second season when he played his 23rd game, was comfortably above what Cumberland has produced in 2024, and by the time he was Cumberland's current age 23, in Cameron's 4th season, forget about it, Cameron then daylight then 300 feet of shit, then Noah Cumberland.

It's mental. That post comparing a 23 gamer to a full career of arguably the 2 greatest small forwards of the era is probably the most foolish attempt to make a point I can remember on here.

I can't believe anyone would even try it on and keep a straight face.

2 greatest small forwards of the era? Toby Greene for one would argue that case. You can see my list above that I have bolded. You can compare him statistically to the 2 worst of those if you like across a wide range of stats. See how he comes off and who he is comparable to...

The stats from Meteoric Rise are wrong. For example Papley averages 1.58 goals per game over his career not 2.4 as claimed.

In fact he has never averaged more than 2.0 goals per game in a season. See the link below.

AFL Tables - Tom Papley - Stats - Statistics

I won't bother disproving the rest as it inherently a waste of time.

This is either deceptive on your part or you just didn't read what I wrote properly. I am going to go with the just didn't read properly option.

Goals + goal assists is the measure I was using.

Apology accepted and from TigerImposter

Average goals per game based on roughly similar number of games played at start of careers.

Cumbers 33 goals from 23 games (Ave 1.43)
Papley 29 goals from 20 games (Ave 1.45)
Cameron 25 goals from 20 games (Ave 1.25)

Now have a look at score involvements, disposals, tackles, contested possessions, pressure acts, goal assists....

Dow is also in his 5th season ... and played more games ... could you please compare his record to the best 2 midfielders in the competition for us? ... maybe include how many games Dow has won off his own boot?

Dow is trying to get to being an AFL inside midfielder. There are basically 72 full time inside mids taking the field in the AFL every week. Loads of those play different roles within that. Some are defensive, some go forward, some burst out of stoppages and so on. For Dow to be even a good inside mid at AFL level, he has to get to a level of someone who plays the role in the way he plays it successfully, or somewhere near that level. Who are those type of players in your opinion?

In Cumberland's case, he is trying to be a dynamic goal kicker/assister who plays near goal. To be good enough to justify that position he needs to be producing what the successful players in that position produce, or near to it. Or some sort of discounted version on a hugely discounted salary.

 

[Karp3_dm]

Haha, a nice collection of outraged responses to my post. I will start with you TI as nobody exhibits outrage better than you.

The reason I compared him to Papley and Cameron is that they were the two I could readily think of who play in the small forward position and play the role in a similar way to what Cumberland is trying to do. Ie not as a pressure forward or high half forward, but as an explosive specialist small forward who principally tries to score goals, or assist goals. Others I could think of now are Stengle, Liam Ryan, Weightman, Toby Greene, Higgins, K Pickett, B Hill/Elliott, Owies, Ginnivan, Willi Rioli. Maybe Walters, Breust to list some older players.

This is a fair basket of players playing the role people are thinking Cumberland should be playing for us. Anyone else who plays that type of role pretty exclusively for any other team doesn't get selected regularly. Some teams don't normally have a particular player playing that role, like Bombers will use Langford/Stringer, and someone like Gresham spends a lot more time up the ground. We use Bolton/Martin. Crows use Rankine/Rachele.

But what Cumberland would be trying to get to in AFL ranks is playing as a small forward who hangs around goals and tries to turn inside 50's into goals for the team. The players who largely play the role this way are the most dangerous small forwards in the AFL. Greene, Weightman, Cameron, Papley, Higgins, Stengle, Liam Ryan.

Cameron and Papley are not the 2 best of these players in the AFL. They are just 2 of quite a few good ones. That is what Cumberland is trying to get to. He is 23yo, and nowhere near it.






Thank you, someone has finally given me some detail about what TigerImposter might have seen Cumberland doing that amounted to high defensive pressure that didn't constitute pressure acts, of which he had only 5. What I would now be interested to know is did Cumberland apply defensive pressure to prevent other players receiving the ball to a high level, ie well above average for an AFL forward? Or did he merely do what is expected of any AFL forward in this regard? Or not even that?




Cumberland is 23 years of age. Have a look at say Jack Higgins stats as a 23yo(2022) and compare it with Cumberland in 2024 if you like. Or any of these others guys I listed above.

Or look at all of them. Cumberland is the lowest for player rating, disposals, goals + assists, score involvements, pressure acts. Unless you can find someone lower in any of those things as a 23yo. He is by far below the average of that group. Where teams have a player in that role performing at the level Cumberland is performing this season, they are not normally a permanent fixture in the team, or at least in the role.




Papley was way above what Cumberland is doing in 2024 when he was 20, 21, 22 and 23 - in every one of those seasons separately.

And guess what?

You got it beema, Charlie Cameron by his second season when he played his 23rd game, was comfortably above what Cumberland has produced in 2024, and by the time he was Cumberland's current age 23, in Cameron's 4th season, forget about it, Cameron then daylight then 300 feet of shit, then Noah Cumberland.




2 greatest small forwards of the era? Toby Greene for one would argue that case. You can see my list above that I have bolded. You can compare him statistically to the 2 worst of those if you like across a wide range of stats. See how he comes off and who he is comparable to...




This is either deceptive on your part or you just didn't read what I wrote properly. I am going to go with the just didn't read properly option.

Goals + goal assists is the measure I was using.

Apology accepted and from TigerImposter




Now have a look at score involvements, disposals, tackles, contested possessions, pressure acts, goal assists....



Dow is trying to get to being an AFL inside midfielder. There are basically 72 full time inside mids taking the field in the AFL every week. Loads of those play different roles within that. Some are defensive, some go forward, some burst out of stoppages and so on. For Dow to be even a good inside mid at AFL level, he has to get to a level of someone who plays the role in the way he plays it successfully, or somewhere near that level. Who are those type of players in your opinion?

In Cumberland's case, he is trying to be a dynamic goal kicker/assister who plays near goal. To be good enough to justify that position he needs to be producing what the successful players in that position produce, or near to it. Or some sort of discounted version on a hugely discounted salary.

Remember he missed a year with an ACL too..

And Why are we comparing him to the best tho?
Is Cumbo meant to be Leigh Matthew’s or something?

Not everyone hits the ground running and turns into a star within 50 games?
Remember Shedda, Rance, Grimes etc…

He’s been in and out of the side non stop the last year or 2 so hard to stabilize and build confidence which he’s actually doing right now but you and many others hold him to a different standard than the rest


Your choice of course but it’s embarrassing for you guys

And you’re acting like 23 with 23 games experience isn’t young? Wtf mate, truly dumbfounded by this

Just say you don’t like him, it’s easier than the smoke screen bullshit

 

[beema limapep]

Haha, a nice collection of outraged responses to my post. I will start with you TI as nobody exhibits outrage better than you.

The reason I compared him to Papley and Cameron is that they were the two I could readily think of who play in the small forward position and play the role in a similar way to what Cumberland is trying to do. Ie not as a pressure forward or high half forward, but as an explosive specialist small forward who principally tries to score goals, or assist goals. Others I could think of now are Stengle, Liam Ryan, Weightman, Toby Greene, Higgins, K Pickett, B Hill/Elliott, Owies, Ginnivan, Willi Rioli. Maybe Walters, Breust to list some older players.

This is a fair basket of players playing the role people are thinking Cumberland should be playing for us. Anyone else who plays that type of role pretty exclusively for any other team doesn't get selected regularly. Some teams don't normally have a particular player playing that role, like Bombers will use Langford/Stringer, and someone like Gresham spends a lot more time up the ground. We use Bolton/Martin. Crows use Rankine/Rachele.

But what Cumberland would be trying to get to in AFL ranks is playing as a small forward who hangs around goals and tries to turn inside 50's into goals for the team. The players who largely play the role this way are the most dangerous small forwards in the AFL. Greene, Weightman, Cameron, Papley, Higgins, Stengle, Liam Ryan.

Cameron and Papley are not the 2 best of these players in the AFL. They are just 2 of quite a few good ones. That is what Cumberland is trying to get to. He is 23yo, and nowhere near it.






Thank you, someone has finally given me some detail about what TigerImposter might have seen Cumberland doing that amounted to high defensive pressure that didn't constitute pressure acts, of which he had only 5. What I would now be interested to know is did Cumberland apply defensive pressure to prevent other players receiving the ball to a high level, ie well above average for an AFL forward? Or did he merely do what is expected of any AFL forward in this regard? Or not even that?




Cumberland is 23 years of age. Have a look at say Jack Higgins stats as a 23yo(2022) and compare it with Cumberland in 2024 if you like. Or any of these others guys I listed above.

Or look at all of them. Cumberland is the lowest for player rating, disposals, goals + assists, score involvements, pressure acts. Unless you can find someone lower in any of those things as a 23yo. He is by far below the average of that group. Where teams have a player in that role performing at the level Cumberland is performing this season, they are not normally a permanent fixture in the team, or at least in the role.




Papley was way above what Cumberland is doing in 2024 when he was 20, 21, 22 and 23 - in every one of those seasons separately.

And guess what?

You got it beema, Charlie Cameron by his second season when he played his 23rd game, was comfortably above what Cumberland has produced in 2024, and by the time he was Cumberland's current age 23, in Cameron's 4th season, forget about it, Cameron then daylight then 300 feet of shit, then Noah Cumberland.




2 greatest small forwards of the era? Toby Greene for one would argue that case. You can see my list above that I have bolded. You can compare him statistically to the 2 worst of those if you like across a wide range of stats. See how he comes off and who he is comparable to...




This is either deceptive on your part or you just didn't read what I wrote properly. I am going to go with the just didn't read properly option.

Goals + goal assists is the measure I was using.

Apology accepted and from TigerImposter




Now have a look at score involvements, disposals, tackles, contested possessions, pressure acts, goal assists....



Dow is trying to get to being an AFL inside midfielder. There are basically 72 full time inside mids taking the field in the AFL every week. Loads of those play different roles within that. Some are defensive, some go forward, some burst out of stoppages and so on. For Dow to be even a good inside mid at AFL level, he has to get to a level of someone who plays the role in the way he plays it successfully, or somewhere near that level. Who are those type of players in your opinion?

In Cumberland's case, he is trying to be a dynamic goal kicker/assister who plays near goal. To be good enough to justify that position he needs to be producing what the successful players in that position produce, or near to it. Or some sort of discounted version on a hugely discounted salary.

Semantics as usual.

'But what about Toby Greene? '

'But what about Cameron's 23rd game?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Remember he missed a year with an ACL too..

And Why are we comparing him to the best tho?

Not everyone hits the ground running and turns into a star within 50 games?
Remember Shedda, Rance, Grimes etc…

He’s been in and out of the side non stop the last year or 2 so hard to stabilize and build confidence which he’s actually doing right now but you and many others hold him to a different standard than the rest

Your choice of course but it’s embarrassing for you guys

Just say you don’t like him, it’s easier than the smoke screen bullshit

The reason I am comparing him to all those guys is they are about the only ones holding down his role that are permanent fixtures in their teams and in the role.

I wouldn't know enough about Cumberland to know if I like him or not. The way he tries to play his position, you have to be really really good to pull that off. And I don't think he is good enough to do it. I am encouraged by some more honest play I have seen from him in the VFL & AFL this season, but is he bridging the gap quick enough to make it at AFL level? I am not sure. My observation is he is only dangerous around goals when he conserves energy bby not applying a lot of defensive pressure. And when he does apply a lot of defensive pressure, he ceases to be dangerous around goal. If he starts putting the 2 things together with any sort of consistency, I will accept he has made the grade, but not before. This is not a different standard he is being held to. Players like Maurice Rioli and Mansell are high pressure forwards, and they appear better at that than Cumberland. Cumberland is auditioning for a different role, star goal kicker. You need some serious cachet to land that job, remembering beside our gun key forwards we have had the likes of Dusty and Bolton sharing that role.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Semantics as usual.

'But what about Toby Greene? '

'But what about Cameron's 23rd game?

Who do you think is a fair comparison?

This will be interesting...

 

[TigerImposter]

Haha, a nice collection of outraged responses to my post. I will start with you TI as nobody exhibits outrage better than you.

The reason I compared him to Papley and Cameron is that they were the two I could readily think of who play in the small forward position and play the role in a similar way to what Cumberland is trying to do. Ie not as a pressure forward or high half forward, but as an explosive specialist small forward who principally tries to score goals, or assist goals. Others I could think of now are Stengle, Liam Ryan, Weightman, Toby Greene, Higgins, K Pickett, B Hill/Elliott, Owies, Ginnivan, Willi Rioli. Maybe Walters, Breust to list some older players.

This is a fair basket of players playing the role people are thinking Cumberland should be playing for us. Anyone else who plays that type of role pretty exclusively for any other team doesn't get selected regularly. Some teams don't normally have a particular player playing that role, like Bombers will use Langford/Stringer, and someone like Gresham spends a lot more time up the ground. We use Bolton/Martin. Crows use Rankine/Rachele.

But what Cumberland would be trying to get to in AFL ranks is playing as a small forward who hangs around goals and tries to turn inside 50's into goals for the team. The players who largely play the role this way are the most dangerous small forwards in the AFL. Greene, Weightman, Cameron, Papley, Higgins, Stengle, Liam Ryan.

Cameron and Papley are not the 2 best of these players in the AFL. They are just 2 of quite a few good ones. That is what Cumberland is trying to get to. He is 23yo, and nowhere near it.






Thank you, someone has finally given me some detail about what TigerImposter might have seen Cumberland doing that amounted to high defensive pressure that didn't constitute pressure acts, of which he had only 5. What I would now be interested to know is did Cumberland apply defensive pressure to prevent other players receiving the ball to a high level, ie well above average for an AFL forward? Or did he merely do what is expected of any AFL forward in this regard? Or not even that?




Cumberland is 23 years of age. Have a look at say Jack Higgins stats as a 23yo(2022) and compare it with Cumberland in 2024 if you like. Or any of these others guys I listed above.

Or look at all of them. Cumberland is the lowest for player rating, disposals, goals + assists, score involvements, pressure acts. Unless you can find someone lower in any of those things as a 23yo. He is by far below the average of that group. Where teams have a player in that role performing at the level Cumberland is performing this season, they are not normally a permanent fixture in the team, or at least in the role.




Papley was way above what Cumberland is doing in 2024 when he was 20, 21, 22 and 23 - in every one of those seasons separately.

And guess what?

You got it beema, Charlie Cameron by his second season when he played his 23rd game, was comfortably above what Cumberland has produced in 2024, and by the time he was Cumberland's current age 23, in Cameron's 4th season, forget about it, Cameron then daylight then 300 feet of shit, then Noah Cumberland.




2 greatest small forwards of the era? Toby Greene for one would argue that case. You can see my list above that I have bolded. You can compare him statistically to the 2 worst of those if you like across a wide range of stats. See how he comes off and who he is comparable to...




This is either deceptive on your part or you just didn't read what I wrote properly. I am going to go with the just didn't read properly option.

Goals + goal assists is the measure I was using.

Apology accepted and from TigerImposter




Now have a look at score involvements, disposals, tackles, contested possessions, pressure acts, goal assists....



Dow is trying to get to being an AFL inside midfielder. There are basically 72 full time inside mids taking the field in the AFL every week. Loads of those play different roles within that. Some are defensive, some go forward, some burst out of stoppages and so on. For Dow to be even a good inside mid at AFL level, he has to get to a level of someone who plays the role in the way he plays it successfully, or somewhere near that level. Who are those type of players in your opinion?

In Cumberland's case, he is trying to be a dynamic goal kicker/assister who plays near goal. To be good enough to justify that position he needs to be producing what the successful players in that position produce, or near to it. Or some sort of discounted version on a hugely discounted salary.

So you've given 12 extra players on top of your two and by my account their should be around 36 plus some extra VFL players who have played AFL like Coulthard and Green. So again can you do a correct statistical analysis of all the current AFL small forwards and display them on a list showing where Cumberland is ranked ? We currently have 3 that are not even getting games , one of them MRJ bc he's injured. If you're going to compare players please be honest with yourself and do the right thing by us all and give us the correct information and not just cherry pick the best in the business for each club that have more experience. Stop wasting our time with useless stats and information that are just used to distort the truth.

This was the thrust of your OP and it's clear you're not expecting him to reach this level . You could be right, but your comparison is bordering on hate only as he doesn't have the experience and support crew around him in comparison. The sad thing was that your stats were inaccurate:



He is trying to play like a Tom Papley or Charlie Cameron. The trouble is:

- Papley has a career average 14.2 disposals, 13 pressure acts, 6 contested possessions, 2.5 tackles, 2.4 goals + assists.

- Cameron 11.4 disposals, 13 pressure acts, 3 tackles, 5 contested possessions, 2.5 goals + assists.

- Cumberland 8.5 disposals, 11 pressure acts, 4 contested possessions, 2.2 tackles and 2.0 goals + assists.

Cumberland is a discount version not only on the scoreboard, but in every aspect of the game offensively and defensively.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

So you've given 12 extra players on top of your two and by my account their should be around 36 plus some extra VFL players who have played AFL like Coulthard and Green. So again can you do a correct statistical analysis of all the current AFL small forwards and display them on a list showing where Cumberland is ranked ? We currently have 3 that are not even getting games , one of them MRJ bc he's injured. If you're going to compare players please be honest with yourself and do the right thing by us all and give us the correct information and not just cherry pick the best in the business for each club that have more experience. Stop wasting our time with useless stats and information that are just used to distort the truth.

This was the thrust of your OP and it's clear you're not expecting him to reach this level . You could be right, but your comparison is bordering on hate only as he doesn't have the experience and support crew around him in comparison. The sad thing was that your stats were inaccurate:



He is trying to play like a Tom Papley or Charlie Cameron. The trouble is:

- Papley has a career average 14.2 disposals, 13 pressure acts, 6 contested possessions, 2.5 tackles, 2.4 goals + assists.

- Cameron 11.4 disposals, 13 pressure acts, 3 tackles, 5 contested possessions, 2.5 goals + assists.

- Cumberland 8.5 disposals, 11 pressure acts, 4 contested possessions, 2.2 tackles and 2.0 goals + assists.

Cumberland is a discount version not only on the scoreboard, but in every aspect of the game offensively and defensively.

Which stats exactly were inaccurate?

If you want a comparison with any other player, be my guest, you provide the player and the comparison. If you leave bits out I will soon correct that for you.

 

[Vassp]

Your probably right.
Things like in the last game Cumbo had 5 pressure acts (equal third lowest, only above McAuliffe and Broad) and Tarranto a team high 28 equal with Mansel.
Cumbo kicked 3 goals, a fantastic return for a medium forward. Outside that there ain't much in the stats to hang his hat on.
So if he doesn't keep kicking 2 or more goals a game he may struggle to hold his spot based on that.
And you say use your eyes, what hurt my eyes was seeing a probable goal turned over by his brain fart. Those are the sort of things he has to get out of his game, particularly while he is walking the tightrope of holding his spot in the team.

I heard his uncle died and obviously would've been a hard time for him that game.
I can make a very long list of stupid 50mtr penalties our superstars gave away -Dusty included.

All I'm saying is he can hit the scoreboard and we don't have many players than can do that ATM.
he is gold for us and I hope he gets more confident, his kicking was much better.

 

[shaky]

I heard his uncle died and obviously would've been a hard time for him that game.
I can make a very long list of stupid 50mtr penalties our superstars gave away -Dusty included.

All I'm saying is he can hit the scoreboard and we don't have many players than can do that ATM.
he is gold for us and I hope he gets more confident, his kicking was much better.

I noticed him gesture after kicking goals and wondered if he had lost someone close.
Not acceptable though for any player to give away those frees/50s, a cancer that has been in our club for a while coming from our senior players down. Some stupidity worse than Cumbos was the beginning of the end of Caddy's career.
I feel that we get a few more players back and at the first drop in form he will be out of the team. I think as Metoric Rise is trying to argue with others, he plays that dangerous goal kicking forward role and with Dusty and Bolton in the team he gets squeezed out with the pressure forwards in Mansel and Campbell keeping their spot and then MRJ vying also for a spot.

 

[beema limapep]

A second reason why i ignore any stats he puts up as he's done this before.

How many times? More than a couple?

 

[beema limapep]

I heard his uncle died and obviously would've been a hard time for him that game.

Apparently mentioning the above on this thread is being used by us purely as 'bolstering' our own opinions. Rather than saying it out of any form of compassion for him and his circumstances. Just ask sregit

 

[TigerImposter]

How many times? More than a couple?

That's today alone. lol

 

[Meteoric Rise]

That's today alone. lol

You need to support the claim with good evidence or withdraw it.

 

[Grrr]

Haha, a nice collection of outraged responses to my post. I will start with you TI as nobody exhibits outrage better than you.

The reason I compared him to Papley and Cameron is that they were the two I could readily think of who play in the small forward position and play the role in a similar way to what Cumberland is trying to do. Ie not as a pressure forward or high half forward, but as an explosive specialist small forward who principally tries to score goals, or assist goals. Others I could think of now are Stengle, Liam Ryan, Weightman, Toby Greene, Higgins, K Pickett, B Hill/Elliott, Owies, Ginnivan, Willi Rioli. Maybe Walters, Breust to list some older players.

This is a fair basket of players playing the role people are thinking Cumberland should be playing for us. Anyone else who plays that type of role pretty exclusively for any other team doesn't get selected regularly. Some teams don't normally have a particular player playing that role, like Bombers will use Langford/Stringer, and someone like Gresham spends a lot more time up the ground. We use Bolton/Martin. Crows use Rankine/Rachele.

But what Cumberland would be trying to get to in AFL ranks is playing as a small forward who hangs around goals and tries to turn inside 50's into goals for the team. The players who largely play the role this way are the most dangerous small forwards in the AFL. Greene, Weightman, Cameron, Papley, Higgins, Stengle, Liam Ryan.

Cameron and Papley are not the 2 best of these players in the AFL. They are just 2 of quite a few good ones. That is what Cumberland is trying to get to. He is 23yo, and nowhere near it.






Thank you, someone has finally given me some detail about what TigerImposter might have seen Cumberland doing that amounted to high defensive pressure that didn't constitute pressure acts, of which he had only 5. What I would now be interested to know is did Cumberland apply defensive pressure to prevent other players receiving the ball to a high level, ie well above average for an AFL forward? Or did he merely do what is expected of any AFL forward in this regard? Or not even that?




Cumberland is 23 years of age. Have a look at say Jack Higgins stats as a 23yo(2022) and compare it with Cumberland in 2024 if you like. Or any of these others guys I listed above.

Or look at all of them. Cumberland is the lowest for player rating, disposals, goals + assists, score involvements, pressure acts. Unless you can find someone lower in any of those things as a 23yo. He is by far below the average of that group. Where teams have a player in that role performing at the level Cumberland is performing this season, they are not normally a permanent fixture in the team, or at least in the role.




Papley was way above what Cumberland is doing in 2024 when he was 20, 21, 22 and 23 - in every one of those seasons separately.

And guess what?

You got it beema, Charlie Cameron by his second season when he played his 23rd game, was comfortably above what Cumberland has produced in 2024, and by the time he was Cumberland's current age 23, in Cameron's 4th season, forget about it, Cameron then daylight then 300 feet of shit, then Noah Cumberland.




2 greatest small forwards of the era? Toby Greene for one would argue that case. You can see my list above that I have bolded. You can compare him statistically to the 2 worst of those if you like across a wide range of stats. See how he comes off and who he is comparable to...




This is either deceptive on your part or you just didn't read what I wrote properly. I am going to go with the just didn't read properly option.

Goals + goal assists is the measure I was using.

Apology accepted and from TigerImposter




Now have a look at score involvements, disposals, tackles, contested possessions, pressure acts, goal assists....



Dow is trying to get to being an AFL inside midfielder. There are basically 72 full time inside mids taking the field in the AFL every week. Loads of those play different roles within that. Some are defensive, some go forward, some burst out of stoppages and so on. For Dow to be even a good inside mid at AFL level, he has to get to a level of someone who plays the role in the way he plays it successfully, or somewhere near that level. Who are those type of players in your opinion?

In Cumberland's case, he is trying to be a dynamic goal kicker/assister who plays near goal. To be good enough to justify that position he needs to be producing what the successful players in that position produce, or near to it. Or some sort of discounted version on a hugely discounted salary.

He's played 3 games after a fair hiatus. So let's see how he goes over the season and if he finds his feet and if he stays in the side. Then we'll all have a bit more of an idea to how he is going as a player. As it is, it's sort of pointless. As you know, 3 games is not enough to make any real judgement on.

 

[Vassp]

Your probably right.
Things like in the last game Cumbo had 5 pressure acts (equal third lowest, only above McAuliffe and Broad) and Tarranto a team high 28 equal with Mansel.
Cumbo kicked 3 goals, a fantastic return for a medium forward. Outside that there ain't much in the stats to hang his hat on.
So if he doesn't keep kicking 2 or more goals a game he may struggle to hold his spot based on that.
And you say use your eyes, what hurt my eyes was seeing a probable goal turned over by his brain fart. Those are the sort of things he has to get out of his game, particularly while he is walking the tightrope of holding his spot in the team.

if you hover around the ball like what TT does of cousre he is going to be more involved in the game, I can get a quarter of his pressure acts in my current state of being completely unfit.

He's played 3 games after a fair hiatus. So let's see how he goes over the season and if he finds his feet and if he stays in the side. Then we'll all have a bit more of an idea to how he is going as a player. As it is, it's sort of pointless. As you know, 3 games is not enough to make any real judgement on.

He also did some great work in 2022

 

[Grrr]

if you hover around the ball like what TT does of cousre he is going to be more involved in the game, I can get a quarter of his pressure acts in my current state of being completely unfit.

He also did some great work in 2022

Yes, and not so good last year. As I said, after a good time out and working on his game in the VFL, he is now in the position to play a more rounded game. We'll see how that pans out. So far it has been pretty good. He will have some bad games, (and I hope there's not a pile on), and he will have some good games where he looks a weapon. I just hope they play him through those times and not drop him after one bad game. Ball is in court really. If you are good enough....

 

[shaky]

if you hover around the ball like what TT does of cousre he is going to be more involved in the game, I can get a quarter of his pressure acts in my current state of being completely unfit.

Hmm. I think we all dream we could do certain things on an AFL field if given the chance, I'm afraid reality might be very different
What is interesting out of that stat is Cumbo was very low, he actually lead the team in PA a few weeks earlier. I think with Dusty out he played that deeper forward role against the Crows.
As per my other posts, will be interesting to see who they select and how they structure up in a few weeks if we have more option to choose from.
Pressure on to perform soon and hold spots which is good for the team, as long as they select the players in best form, not just the same old players seem to get selected

 

[Meteoric Rise]

He's played 3 games after a fair hiatus. So let's see how he goes over the season and if he finds his feet and if he stays in the side. Then we'll all have a bit more of an idea to how he is going as a player. As it is, it's sort of pointless. As you know, 3 games is not enough to make any real judgement on.

Cumby has played 5 in succession Grrr.


I agree there is a more rounded game emerging. That was not negotiable. The next bit is to turn that into consistently impactful performances at a reasonable level for his role. Fingers crossed, but I still have him just below the curve he needs to be on at this stage in order to be in the club's best 22.

 

[sregit]

Apparently mentioning the above on this thread is being used by us purely as 'bolstering' our own opinions. Rather than saying it out of any form of compassion for him and his circumstances. Just ask sregit

Yes I said that but also said I was not judging him on that performance. Good how you only tell half of post.

 

[_RT_]

Cumberland is to Dow as Dow is to Cumberland

Both are young players making their way in the game and finally getting extended opportunities at senior level to prove they belong on the list long term.

Both have their good and bad traits/performances that draw praise or criticism.

Praising them doesn't make you a fan boy and criticism doesn't make you a hater. Being able to do both is important as supporters of the club.

 

[Cdog71]

Interesting that the biggest knock on him is his Def pressure, though the Coaches seem to be alright with him lining up on the opp best intercept player.
The Crows didn’t get alotve run off HB, against the Cats, Stewart who is probably one of the best at it intercepted 7 times which is a bit down on his best and of course Ridley got best on in the Dreamtime.
6”5 Hbflanker Ridley. Pretty unusual and no doubt he had been set for that for a while having been injured for so long.
One things clear to me watching Cumbo that even though they’re all all professionals, training full time and have been playing since they where about 5.
How few Def are good at defending left sided people, they just don’t come up against them very often.
I think it’s part of the reason Pendlebury looks good in traffic because he moves differently to what people expect and have been playing against for years.

We need to kick more goals, Cumbo kicks goals.
I think he’s a keeper.

 

[lllscroatlll]

i get it now

only support players who have made it

only support the best players

players like cumdawg, the man, young, dow etc its not safe to support them cos you m1gh7 b3 pw0v3n wr0nG by some i told you so type

so what you do is you personally attack these young players, some of whom will not make it, maybe they are delisted or maybe become club legends, but the latter only support them while they are at their peak, see exhibit a macca

the former, are Richmond players and will get my respect and loyalty regardless of ability or errors along the way

but then again i am committed to not embodying the scapegoat meme as it keeps society in a state of avoiding the real problem by blaming a comrade for being human

 

[Drunken Wookie]

has been on an upward trend all season.