Player Watch #44: Cameron Zurhaar - [AFL.com] CZ mgr says 'wants to see improvement' & 'team success' - CZ 4.1 vs MFC

[ChairmanZia]

Most players in the prime of their careers aren’t built like a 12 year old.

Brent harvey...got barred from the dressing room at one stage...

 

[hotchilli]

Brent harvey...got barred from the dressing room at one stage...

Curtis Taylor is not in the same ball park as Harvey talent wise…

 

[KiwiRoo]

Over to you Cam

The pieces are starting to line up.Surely even he can see that.

personally I'd like him to stay and give him a decent deal. But he does remind me of Stringer a bit in that he's talented,has cameo moments, but i dont always think he gets as fit as he could , which is why his defensive pressure is inconsistent.

But he's not unreplaceable...and I don't think he's as valuable as Cam thinks he is.That third tall position could be filled by someone with better defensive pressure and a better footy IQ .

 

[nicko74]

Let’s not rule out the Aints for a ridiculous offer. That board has imploded out of its arse multiple times in the last twenty four hours. Hopefully they get stupid enough to entice Zuurhar just for a small win for their members and cough up a compo

But why would he go there?

 

[shinboner magic]

No chance we get band 1 compo pick if Camz leaves

I still think he’ll stay

 

[ChairmanZia]

Over to you Cam

The pieces are starting to line up.Surely even he can see that.

personally I'd like him to stay and give him a decent deal. But he does remind me of Stringer a bit in that he's talented,has cameo moments, but i dont always think he gets as fit as he could , which is why his defensive pressure is inconsistent.

But he's not unreplaceable...and I don't think he's as valuable as Cam thinks he is.That third tall position could be filled by someone with better defensive pressure and a better footy IQ .

Yep, the pressure is on him to sign or be sign as a cop out, esp after the prima donna has spoken.

 

[ChairmanZia]

No chance we get band 1 compo pick if Camz leaves

I still think he’ll stay

That depends on the $$$.

If pies pay 6 x 800k then woopie do...

 

[swaeney]

That depends on the $$$.

If pies pay 6 x 800k then woopie do...

In what world is anyone paying 6x 800k for a forward who’s kicked 30 goals twice in his 8 year career?

 

[shinboner magic]

That depends on the $$$.

If pies pay 6 x 800k then woopie do...

Think they go by dollar amount per year and 800k doesn’t do that

 

[ChairmanZia]

In what world is anyone paying 6x 800k for a forward who’s kicked 30 goals twice in his 8 year career?

Hey hey, im not collingwood.

Crazier things have happened like saints giving 2 firsts for dan hannebury...the post 2016 gf variety who had seriously debilitating knee problem at 5 x 950k...

If someone wants to pay that for a 'once every 10 game' match winner then we can't say no to that can we?

 

[ChairmanZia]

In what world is anyone paying 6x 800k for a forward who’s kicked 30 goals twice in his 8 year career?

Pies are desperate to stay afloat around the 8, they need anybody they could get.

 

[motlopfan]

Hey hey, im not collingwood.

Crazier things have happened like saints giving 2 firsts for dan hannebury...the post 2016 gf variety who had seriously debilitating knee problem at 5 x 950k...

If someone wants to pay that for a 'once every 10 game' match winner then we can't say no to that can we?

St. Kilda did NOT give up 2 firsts for Hannebury! Max King was selected by them at pick 4. Who knows what his salary was?

 

[Sillygit]

No one is paying cam band 1 rates.

 

[shinboner magic]

ChairmanZia and DuckYeah both suspended at the same time - crazies be a bit worried

 

[swaeney]

Pies are desperate to stay afloat around the 8, they need anybody they could get.

 

[archereleven]

There were 2 instances in the 1st quarter that set the tone.

- Jys bullshit htb with the first clearance of the game.

- Zurhaar under zero pressure turns over a 25m kick in the corridor,l - kick, kick, goal.

On SM-G991B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[tazaa]

There were 2 instances in the 1st quarter that set the tone.

- Jys bullshit htb with the first clearance of the game.

- Zurhaar under zero pressure turns over a 25m kick in the corridor,l - kick, kick, goal.

On SM-G991B using BigFooty.com mobile app

That was a very lazy pathetic kick.

 

[Sphynx]

I posted this in stat observations.

I will also put it in here:

I decided to do an exercise when assessing the Zurhaar contract situation.

Eddie Ford is definitely one of the more underrated players in the competition at the moment.

I think in general, the coaching staff have been misusing him quite badly.

So I've decided to prove why I think Zurhaar shouldn't be on anything but a standard playing contract comparable to what Ford or Curtis would be offered.

I've compared CZ/Curtis/Ford and adjusted their season averages per 120 minutes (100% TOG). Now obviously a players ability to run out more TOG is important, but Fords season stats are all over the place because of 5 sub appearances.

There's also an element of Zurhaar being a senior player and having right of way currently over Ford also.

This is purely to assess like for like, their impact when they are on the ground for the same time.

All of them are extremely comparable:

• Ford has the best football IQ. He gets the most of the ball per 120 minutes.
• Curtis is the most damaging per possession, he also puts on the most pressure, the eye test would back that up.
• Zurhaar kicks just slightly more goals than Curtis/Ford. I think Ford plays higher up the ground on average so is more dangerous per minute spent I50 than probably both Curtis and Zurhaar. It's because of his overhead ability.
• I think most people would be surprised at Fords scoreboard impact vs Curtis/Zurhaar. He's already as good as both.
• Ford is the best overhead of the 3.
• Fords goal assist and score involvements are good considering his ratio of disposals per inside 50 vs Curtis and Zurhaar.

- Zurhaar is 4 years older than Ford and 5 years older than Curtis.


Now, based on the below, would you be offering 5 or 6 years at $700k+ to Zurhaar, if so, are you prepared to offer that to all 3 of them over the next 2 years?

Based on the below, it's absolutely incredible that Ford has been the sub as much as he has. Curtis and Zurhaar are statistically in our best 10 players, how the coaches have deemed Eddie isn't in the best 22 for 1/3 of this season is almost alarming. How Stephenson has played so much football at half forward over him is mind boggling.

Adjusting TOG back down to 80% for a medium forward, the coaches have basically been miss handling a 22 year old, 15 disposal a game, 35 goal a season medium forward.

Tom Papley

11

Tom Papley

Age

27

Ht

177cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

9.1

4star

HB

5.0

4star

M

3.7

4star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.5

5star

D

12.3

3star

K

8.9

4star

HB

3.4

2star

M

4.5

4star

T

1.5

2star

G

2.4

5star

D

13.4

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.6

5star

averaged 15 disposals a game and kicked 36 in 2023. Kosi Pickett averaged 11 disposals and kicked 37.

No player under the age of 23 kicked 35 goals and averaged 15 disposals per game in 2023.


If Ford was afforded the same game time and opportunity as Zurhaar and Curtis, he'd be averaging those numbers in 2024 based on the per minute stats across a big sample size, in a side with the lowest i50 count in the league and having won 1 game for the season.

His statistical potential when playing in a finals side with I50 dominance and scoreboard dominance is actually massive. a lot of people have throw away lines of players being potential AA quality, but Ford actually does. He's a potential AA medium forward with those numbers.

Some of Fords stats comparatively are as good as Sheezel and Wardlaw for his age and position.

It's why I'm completely non-plussed about Zuhaar's decision. Ford is arguably better already and a ready made replacement deeper forward, with more scope for improvement and a better I50 overhead threat. With Duursma you have Ford's replacement up the ground as that 3rd medium that plays higher.

If he has Band 1 offers on the table, we should be pushing him out the door imo.

I would be very interested to know what $$$ figures are attached to our 6 year deal we have in front of him. Not to mention with everything I have written below, there is a possibility he is overtaken by Ford, Curtis and Duursma anyway and that 6 year tenure looks a terrible one in the Simpkin/McDonald mould in the next few years.


I'd be offering him $500k x 3. Nothing more.

Player

Age

Age_Decimal

Matches

Kicks

Handballs

Disposals

Inside50s

ContestedPossessions

Marks

ContestedMarks

MarksInside50

Tackles

TacklesInside50

Goals_Total

Goals_Avg

Behinds

ShotsAtGoal

GoalAssists

ScoreInvolvements

ScoreInvolvementPercentage

OnePercenters

Tackles

PressureActs

Cameron Zurhaar

26​

26.61​

14​

9.4​

6.5​

15.8​

3.2​

6.8​

4.2​

0.8​

1.8​

3.2​

1.8​

27.0​

1.9​

1.2​

3.6​

0.5​

5.9​

33.5​

1.3​

3.2​

14.3​

Eddie Ford

22​

22.52​

12​

9.6​

7.7​

17.4​

1.5​

6.9​

6.4​

0.9​

2.2​

3.0​

1.5​

21.2​

1.8​

0.7​

2.8​

0.5​

5.7​

33.2​

1.2​

3.0​

14.8​

Paul Curtis

21​

21.82​

15​

8.7​

5.3​

14.0​

2.3​

6.8​

4.3​

0.8​

1.4​

3.3​

1.6​

26.4​

1.8​

1.1​

3.4​

0.7​

6.2​

35.9​

1.0​

3.3​

17.4​

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

I posted this in stat observations.

I will also put it in here:

I decided to do an exercise when assessing the Zurhaar contract situation.

Eddie Ford is definitely one of the more underrated players in the competition at the moment.

I think in general, the coaching staff have been misusing him quite badly.

So I've decided to prove why I think Zurhaar shouldn't be on anything but a standard playing contract comparable to what Ford or Curtis would be offered.

I've compared CZ/Curtis/Ford and adjusted their season averages per 120 minutes (100% TOG). Now obviously a players ability to run out more TOG is important, but Fords season stats are all over the place because of 5 sub appearances.

There's also an element of Zurhaar being a senior player and having right of way currently over Ford also.

This is purely to assess like for like, their impact when they are on the ground for the same time.

All of them are extremely comparable:

• Ford has the best football IQ. He gets the most of the ball per 120 minutes.
• Curtis is the most damaging per possession, he also puts on the most pressure, the eye test would back that up.
• Zurhaar kicks just slightly more goals than Curtis/Ford. I think Ford plays higher up the ground on average so is more dangerous per minute spent I50 than probably both Curtis and Zurhaar. It's because of his overhead ability.
• I think most people would be surprised at Fords scoreboard impact vs Curtis/Zurhaar. He's already as good as both.
• Ford is the best overhead of the 3.
• Fords goal assist and score involvements are good considering his ratio of disposals per inside 50 vs Curtis and Zurhaar.

- Zurhaar is 4 years older than Ford and 5 years older than Curtis.


Now, based on the below, would you be offering 5 or 6 years at $700k+ to Zurhaar, if so, are you prepared to offer that to all 3 of them over the next 2 years?

Based on the below, it's absolutely incredible that Ford has been the sub as much as he has. Curtis and Zurhaar are statistically in our best 10 players, how the coaches have deemed Eddie isn't in the best 22 for 1/3 of this season is almost alarming. How Stephenson has played so much football at half forward over him is mind boggling.

Adjusting TOG back down to 80% for a medium forward, the coaches have basically been miss handling a 22 year old, 15 disposal a game, 35 goal a season medium forward.

Tom Papley averaged 15 disposals a game and kicked 36 in 2023. Kosi Pickett averaged 11 disposals and kicked 37.

No player under the age of 23 kicked 35 goals and averaged 15 disposals per game in 2023.


If Ford was afforded the same game time and opportunity as Zurhaar and Curtis, he'd be averaging those numbers in 2024 based on the per minute stats across a big sample size, in a side with the lowest i50 count in the league and having won 1 game for the season.

His statistical potential when playing in a finals side with I50 dominance and scoreboard dominance is actually massive. a lot of people have throw away lines of players being potential AA quality, but Ford actually does. He's a potential AA medium forward with those numbers.

Some of Fords stats comparatively are as good as Sheezel and Wardlaw for his age and position.

It's why I'm completely non-plussed about Zuhaar's decision. Ford is arguably better already and a ready made replacement deeper forward, with more scope for improvement and a better I50 overhead threat. With Duursma you have Ford's replacement up the ground as that 3rd medium that plays higher.

If he has Band 1 offers on the table, we should be pushing him out the door imo.

I would be very interested to know what $$$ figures are attached to our 6 year deal we have in front of him. Not to mention with everything I have written below, there is a possibility he is overtaken by Ford, Curtis and Duursma anyway and that 6 year tenure looks a terrible one in the Simpkin/McDonald mould in the next few years.


I'd be offering him $500k x 3. Nothing more.

Player

Age

Age_Decimal

Matches

Kicks

Handballs

Disposals

Inside50s

ContestedPossessions

Marks

ContestedMarks

MarksInside50

Tackles

TacklesInside50

Goals_Total

Goals_Avg

Behinds

ShotsAtGoal

GoalAssists

ScoreInvolvements

ScoreInvolvementPercentage

OnePercenters

Tackles

PressureActs

Cameron Zurhaar

26​

26.61​

14​

9.4​

6.5​

15.8​

3.2​

6.8​

4.2​

0.8​

1.8​

3.2​

1.8​

27.0​

1.9​

1.2​

3.6​

0.5​

5.9​

33.5​

1.3​

3.2​

14.3​

Eddie Ford

22​

22.52​

12​

9.6​

7.7​

17.4​

1.5​

6.9​

6.4​

0.9​

2.2​

3.0​

1.5​

21.2​

1.8​

0.7​

2.8​

0.5​

5.7​

33.2​

1.2​

3.0​

14.8​

Paul Curtis

21​

21.82​

15​

8.7​

5.3​

14.0​

2.3​

6.8​

4.3​

0.8​

1.4​

3.3​

1.6​

26.4​

1.8​

1.1​

3.4​

0.7​

6.2​

35.9​

1.0​

3.3​

17.4​

I would be interested also in seeing Taylor’s stats in this table. While he obviously can’t quite do the remarkable like CZ, I have a feeling that stat-wise (minus goals as CT is playing much higher up the ground) they might be more comparable than one might first think.

 

[Sphynx]

I would be interested also in seeing Taylor’s stats in this table. While he obviously can’t quite do the remarkable like CZ, I have a feeling that stat-wise (minus goals as CT is playing much higher up the ground) they might be more comparable than one might first think.

Per 120 Minutes:

Player

Age

Age_Decimal

Matches

Kicks

Handballs

Disposals

Inside50s

ContestedPossessions

Marks

ContestedMarks

MarksInside50

Tackles

TacklesInside50

Goals_Total

Goals_Avg

Behinds

ShotsAtGoal

GoalAssists

ScoreInvolvements

ScoreInvolvementPercentage

OnePercenters

PressureActs

Cameron Zurhaar

26​

26.61​

14​

9.4​

6.5​

15.8​

3.2​

6.8​

4.2​

0.8​

1.8​

3.2​

1.8​

27.0​

1.9​

1.2​

3.6​

0.5​

5.9​

33.5​

1.3​

14.3​

Eddie Ford

22​

22.52​

12​

9.6​

7.7​

17.4​

1.5​

6.9​

6.4​

0.9​

2.2​

3.0​

1.5​

21.2​

1.8​

0.7​

2.8​

0.5​

5.7​

33.2​

1.2​

14.8​

Paul Curtis

21​

21.82​

15​

8.7​

5.3​

14.0​

2.3​

6.8​

4.3​

0.8​

1.4​

3.3​

1.6​

26.4​

1.8​

1.1​

3.4​

0.7​

6.2​

35.9​

1.0​

17.4​

Curtis Taylor

24​

24.73​

6​

11.7​

5.7​

17.4​

1.3​

4.8​

6.1​

0.4​

0.7​

3.7​

0.7​

3.9​

0.7​

0.0​

0.7​

0.7​

4.3​

25.3​

1.3​

13.5​

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

Per 120 Minutes:

Player

Age

Age_Decimal

Matches

Kicks

Handballs

Disposals

Inside50s

ContestedPossessions

Marks

ContestedMarks

MarksInside50

Tackles

TacklesInside50

Goals_Total

Goals_Avg

Behinds

ShotsAtGoal

GoalAssists

ScoreInvolvements

ScoreInvolvementPercentage

OnePercenters

PressureActs

Cameron Zurhaar

26​

26.61​

14​

9.4​

6.5​

15.8​

3.2​

6.8​

4.2​

0.8​

1.8​

3.2​

1.8​

27.0​

1.9​

1.2​

3.6​

0.5​

5.9​

33.5​

1.3​

14.3​

Eddie Ford

22​

22.52​

12​

9.6​

7.7​

17.4​

1.5​

6.9​

6.4​

0.9​

2.2​

3.0​

1.5​

21.2​

1.8​

0.7​

2.8​

0.5​

5.7​

33.2​

1.2​

14.8​

Paul Curtis

21​

21.82​

15​

8.7​

5.3​

14.0​

2.3​

6.8​

4.3​

0.8​

1.4​

3.3​

1.6​

26.4​

1.8​

1.1​

3.4​

0.7​

6.2​

35.9​

1.0​

17.4​

Curtis Taylor

24​

24.73​

6​

11.7​

5.7​

17.4​

1.3​

4.8​

6.1​

0.4​

0.7​

3.7​

0.7​

3.9​

0.7​

0.0​

0.7​

0.7​

4.3​

25.3​

1.3​

13.5​

Thanks for this. While Treakle and Pink have helped enormously transforming our structureless forward line in to a competitive one, I feel as though our medium forwards have both contributed and benefitted since the bye.

It would be really interesting to see how Duursma would go in this new structure.

 

[giantroo]

Twomey on Zurhaar - has had a 5 year deal on table since the start of the season at around '$700-750k'

 

[amaz199]

Twomey on Zurhaar - has had a 5 year deal on table since the start of the season at around '$700-750k'

Would be nuts not to take that on current output

 

[justroyal]

**** me that’s generous

 

[King Corey]

I've come to realise I'd like to see improvements and team success before committing to supporting Cameron Zurhaar

44

Cameron Zurhaar

Age

26

Ht

190cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.2

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

4.6

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.9

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

9.7

2star

K

5.9

2star

HB

3.9

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

10.2

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.8

4star

any further.