Play Nice 47th President of the United States: Donald Trump - Part 20: Here we go again!

[Gethelred]

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USA - 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

Continued from Part 1 - https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2024-us-presidential-election-trump-vs-harris.1383317/

www.bigfooty.com

USA - Kamala Harris Concedes. God Help America

www.bigfooty.com

< - Trump 19 is back there.

 

[Blue1980]

Disgusting America. Racist to the core. I hope the perpetrators are caught and jailed.

View attachment 2161264

Yeah it’s bad but no one will care essentially, it will just be written off as a joke and everyone will move on.

 

[Blue1980]

It's a CIA plot for Americans to bomb Iran to protect thier buddies in isreal.
What a great set up.

That is certainly plausible.

Any attack on Donnie would be manufacturing consent from his supporters to basically go nuke Iran.

 

[IlovethePies]

That's extremely brave of you, posting about me without tagging me. Look at how well it worked.

You've got a few choices now. Do you a) try to misrepresent my argument for your supposed audience - the ones you're talking to here - again, in order to appear what? Even more disingenuous than you already do, b) admit to trying something on and commit to actually argue your points instead of trying to slip a few balls in the pockets when I'm not looking, or c) double down and see if you can make the world series for strawmen.

You said before that I was rude and abusive before. You, sir, have inspired me with your deep intellectual cowardice here to see where I can really make you weep.

What??

sorry, I wasnt aware of tagging. I have never tagged anyone on this forum before, so wasn't aware of this protocol.

You were rude and abusive, claiming i didn't give a sh** about anyone's struggle.

On that basis, you claimed later that somehow, you had refuted my arguments.

There's nothing disingenuous in what I write.

The simple issue, and I will make it simple for you, is that you ignore the existence of class, and that is why you will always be wrong.

Anarchism was exposed as counterrevolutionary a long time ago.

Now it seems that anarchism has reached the terminal stage of its degeneration by advocating for a red-brown alliance.

How am I an intellectual coward? Ever since I went on here, I have copped ignorant abuse and ridicule. But I will fight, because there might just be someone who perceives the truth in what I am posting.

That person is worth all the abuse and idiocy from those who are ignorant and prejudiced.

By the way, how do you tag? I would have tagged this post, if I knew how.

 

[Maggie5]

So murder, rape, incest wouldn't matter? Bit of a silly question there however of course character matters.

Only if it were a Democrat. This is the hypocrisy of some posters.
Time wasters.

 

[Maggie5]

If anyone seriously judges a politician by what morals they apparently possess, that's astonishingly naive.

Gee I would hate to think of what you would teach your children if values and morals don't matter.

No way would I vote for a sexual predator, dishonest, demeaning women and a liar and that is just a few of the character flaws Trump has.

 

[Sqotty from office works]

Gee I would hate to think of what you would teach your children if values and morals don't matter.

No way would I vote for a sexual predator, dishonest, demeaning women and a liar and that is just a few of the character flaws Trump has.

But Americans DID vote for him.
Which shows how insanely stupid they are.
Trump is a product of a dumb backward thinking population the have got everything they deserve.

It was impossible for the Democrats to lose that election, but they did.
Jokes on yanks

 

[Gethelred]

What??

sorry, I wasnt aware of tagging. I have never tagged anyone on this forum before, so wasn't aware of this protocol.

... it's a matter of courtesy in which when you talk about someone or their posting, you quote or tag them in that post to give them the opportunity to reply.

You were rude and abusive, claiming i didn't give a sh** about anyone's struggle.

You said, and I quote:

Yes, the disgusting identity politics of the Democrats (gender, race, sexual orientation) are repulsive to those whose families are threatened with destitution due to inflation and the suppression of wages.

... followed by this:

The struggle of minorities can only be carried forward as part of an international, unified movement of the working class. This movement will be based on class, not on gender, sexual orientation, or race. These are reactionary categories which simply do not describe social reality. The Democrats, and here in Australia, the ALP and the Greens, all utilise identity politics to divide the working class and prevent a unified response to the social calamity that they are enforcing.

These people - who you yourself are allied with - care about these things. You clearly don't, because if you did you wouldn't dismiss them so casually.

On that basis, you claimed later that somehow, you had refuted my arguments.

I've not said anything about refutation. I've said rather a lot about how you don't care about the people you share a movement with, and people you don't give a shit about.

There's nothing disingenuous in what I write.

Dude, you're a puddle of disingenuousness. Perhaps one day you can aspire towards being a pond or a lake, but at present a puddle is all you are.

The simple issue, and I will make it simple for you, is that you ignore the existence of class, and that is why you will always be wrong.

Hoo boy...

Does someone want to tell him? I kind of want to tell him.

Anarchism was exposed as counterrevolutionary a long time ago.

... you're welcome whenever it suits to cease being as deeply foolish as this.

How am I an intellectual coward?

Because you post without tagging people, not affording them due opportunity to argue back. You misrepresent their arguments via strawmen, because you couldn't beat a real person with your ability to debate.

Ever since I went on here, I have copped ignorant abuse and ridicule. But I will fight, because there might just be someone who perceives the truth in what I am posting.

By the way, how do you tag? I would have tagged this post, if I knew how.

Use the @ sign before a poster's name, or directly reply or quote the post you're responding to.

And finally - as much fun as we're having - we are both off topic in this thread. As much as we both aspire to intellectual narcissism - well, at least, you do - if you want to further be embarrassed shoot me a PM.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

RFK jr is going to replace fluoride with electrolytes.

 

[Blue1980]

That's a great point; completely lost of most of those who report on this. Lots more muddled grey than black and white, depending on the issue.

I think everyone who follows politics day to day can get caught into that trap; and that’s for anyone of any political persuasion.

You can begin thinking that everyone thinks in a very binary way and that people have well thought out beliefs, so if they support a candidate or party you don’t like you can think they support literally every crazy insane thing they associate with that side regardless of whether those things are true or not.

None of this is me bothsidesing this stuff, more that I think most people don’t follow politics to the level we do, and for them stepping into discussions like this would be like entering a foreign world where everyone just abuses each other, if you don’t know the details.

So these same people may wonder in here and post and say “meh I don’t follow this stuff much but Trump seems a good businessman who will be good for the economy” then they they get machine gunned down for supporting a fascist racist rapist, well it’s easy how that can drive them potentiality into the arms of the right or just disengage even more so.

It can be hard to distinguish between good faith and bad faith people online, and probably easier in person as well. No easy answer to this, I’m just trying to think how I can interact better with people on topics and be as constructive as possible.

 

[IlovethePies]

... it's a matter of courtesy in which when you talk about someone or their posting, you quote or tag them in that post to give them the opportunity to reply.

You said, and I quote:

... followed by this:

These people - who you yourself are allied with - care about these things. You clearly don't, because if you did you wouldn't dismiss them so casually.

I've not said anything about refutation. I've said rather a lot about how you don't care about the people you share a movement with, and people you don't give a shit about.

Dude, you're a puddle of disingenuousness. Perhaps one day you can aspire towards being a pond or a lake, but at present a puddle is all you are.

Hoo boy...

Does someone want to tell him? I kind of want to tell him.

... you're welcome whenever it suits to cease being as deeply foolish as this.

Because you post without tagging people, not affording them due opportunity to argue back. You misrepresent their arguments via strawmen, because you couldn't beat a real person with your ability to debate.



Use the @ sign before a poster's name, or directly reply or quote the post you're responding to.

Gethelred
Ok, thanks for info about tagging, will do so from now on.

You're belittling comments only reflect on you.

Please provide an example of how I have represented your argument, or anyones, with a strawman. Clearly you have read my posts, but you have never ever raised this before.

Tell me what?

I'm happy to reply to your arguments any time.

Think you might be the coward.

 

[Financialpanther]

RFK jr is going to replace fluoride with electrolytes.

It's what plants crave.

 

[Royces Hart]

The Southeast accounted for more than two-thirds of all job growth across the US since early 2020, almost doubling its pre-pandemic share. And it was home to 10 of the 15 fastest-growing American large cities.

So, you’re saying that Biden and the Democrats were great for red states in the south?

 

[Gethelred]

Gethelred
Ok, thanks for info about tagging, will do so from now on.

You're belittling comments only reflect on you.

Please provide an example of how I have represented your argument, or anyones, with a strawman. Clearly you have read my posts, but you have never ever raised this before.

Tell me what?

I'm happy to reply to your arguments any time.

Think you might be the coward.

Take the time to read the posts you quote, old boy:

And finally - as much fun as we're having - we are both off topic in this thread. As much as we both aspire to intellectual narcissism - well, at least, you do - if you want to further be embarrassed shoot me a PM.

 

[Blue1980]

My views here are too long and varied to fully state in a single post; suffice to say that I think since the end of WW2 society is best depicted as a struggle between the working classes - who for the first time in history achieved a level of power and position that they had never obtained previously - and the ownership classes, who have spent the entire time since the New Deal and the end of the war chipping away at different components of that coalition and worker's rights to let them return things to the way they were. Keynesian economics gives way to neoliberalism in the 1970's not because it successfully demonstrated its failure but because it's what the wealthy wanted; civil rights movements taper out and are viciously controlled and repressed whilst active, their messages diluted and twisted to establishment ends once gone. The media goes from believing they have an imperative to inform to deliberately seeking to control and drive policy because the owners want to control what people say and believe; Manufacturing Consent and all that.

As such, trying to depict the flaws within a capitalist democracy as 'overly cumbersome and unwieldy' as being due to the minority groups is - frankly - making the same error that sees some of the working poor attribute their loss of income and prestige to immigrants 'taking their jobs' when the problem is the ownership classes moved that job overseas.

The problem is that society is in a slow decline into plutocracy and capitalist feudalism - some more, some less - whilst having the trappings of the social democracies they used to be hollowed out and/or slowly being stripped away.

How do these minority groups within society have both so much power that they bring democracy to its knees yet so little power that they are not treated in a parity or better by the majority?

Well this is where I think those who are full scale Leninists and merely progressive leftists agree, it’s probably going to take a movement from the ground up, possibly driven by terrible economic conditions or war to really change things at this point.

The Overton window keeps marching further and further right and away from what the general population want in the western world in general, just the US is the most obvious example.

 

[Maggie5]

So which of the Jan 6 mob will be the first to be pardoned by tRump?

How many?

 

[Blue1980]

No, I'd say it's more they only promote what they and their group believe in, because they either don't interact with other groups, and/or too many of them don't tolerate anyone who doesn't share their views. And you only need to have watched all the polls to see how badly they misread the mood of the country. Again. All over the country too.

I’d also say it’s a cheap and easier way to look like you’re making a difference.

 

[Tadpole]

Fine I admit it. I’m a communist

There, that wasn’t so hard, was it?

 

[Blue1980]

I very specifically said you can criticize her campaign. I was responding to the claim she was a terrible candidate. No, she wasn't. Her problem, from a purley candidate perspective, was she was a woman.

Her campaign I will agree was vanilla, and her strategy of targeting Republicans blew up as they, along with a chunk of her base, stayed home. They need to speak to the working class. Trump has proven that the working class don't give a shit if you shaft them, just so long as you're speaking to them. And to tie it together, they clearley won't want to share a beer with a black woman.

Another theory is their internal polling was telling them they were ****ed and the only chance was to peel off some disaffected republicans.

The answer would be to figure out why so many people won’t vote for you, as opposed to chasing war mongering neo cons.

I’ve said it before many in the dem party and their leadership just want to be the pre MAGA Republican Party at this point.

 

[Blue1980]

Its like without the working class, the progressives are nothing. Ha, who would have thought that?

Can’t disagree with that at all.

 

[Blue1980]

If that doesn’t turn you off, I don’t know what will.

No need to kink shame

 

[Tadpole]

RFK jr is going to replace fluoride with electrolytes.

I don’t mind a good electrolyte on occasion.

 

[IlovethePies]

Another theory is their internal polling was telling them they were ****ed and the only chance was to peel off some disaffected republicans.

The answer would be to figure out why so many people won’t vote for you, as opposed to chasing war mongering neo cons.

I’ve said it before many in the dem party and their leadership just want to be the pre MAGA Republican Party at this point.

and that is why they lost the election, because they had no ability to appeal to the working class, the low to middle income layers in society who represent the vast majority.

They kept claiming that because profits on Wall St were booming, the economy was "going well"

They forgot to mention that booming profits on Wall St mean the immiseration of everyone else.

They are the political representatives of Wall St, so they had no way out.

As for Trump, yes sitting here in relative comfort in Australia (at the moment) most of us are aware that Trump is planning a social counterrevolution which will devastate the living standards of the working class more rapidly and deeply even than what the Democrats were proposing.

But as has been mentioned many times here already, when social desperation has become part of your life, when your economic and material survival is on the line, and one of only two choices is a continuation of the policies that led you to this place, it is not hard to understand the result of this election.

The reality is that Trump did not get a major surge in his support compared to 2020, Rather, it was the support for the Democrats that collapsed in such a dire fashion.

 

[Blue1980]

This is the kind of both sidesism that the media has engaged in that has allowed Trump to flourish, the idea that there’s hardly any difference between the two so why not go for the wacky character promising you the moon. The Democrats are far from perfect, but Biden’s measured approach to coat of living provided a much better outcome than Trump’s unstable, incoherent approach to COVID did. Being an ‘establishment’ politician means the rule of law is maintained as opposed to Trump undermining elections at every turn. And Harris’ policies exist in the realms of actual possibility as opposed to Trump’s imaginary tariff solution to everything or blaming everything on migrants.

The two sides are not the same, that argument might have been applicable before Trump, it’s not now.

They aren’t the same, but they really aren’t all that different.

 

[Blue1980]

Fine I admit it. I’m a communist

Pfft thats just code for enlightened centrist here now.

 

[Blue1980]

Jemelle was onto something here. I wonder what happened during that week?

View attachment 2161389

He’s a moderate fascist?