Play Nice 47th President of the United States: Donald Trump - Part 20: Here we go again!

[Gethelred]

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USA - 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

Continued from Part 1 - https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2024-us-presidential-election-trump-vs-harris.1383317/

www.bigfooty.com

USA - Kamala Harris Concedes. God Help America

www.bigfooty.com

< - Trump 19 is back there.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

It's very bad optics to keep someone in a role where they have done nothing but bad mouth the person that now happens to run thr country that he's bases in.

And Rudd is a weasel for trying to delete those tweets as though they never happened.

Is it though? The Vance and others within the Trump orbit have bad mouthed him at stages. That's the benefit of a transactional president: If you throw him a puppy treat he'll be all over it like a bitch in heat.

Deleting the tweets is just playing the game. You have not made a satisfactory case for Rudd's recall.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

It was an appalling lack of judgement on Rudd's behalf.

If Trump wants him gone there's no point keeping him there.

Trump does not dictate to us who will be our ambassador. That prerogative sits within our scope.

 

[Royces Hart]

Is it though? The Vance and others within the Trump orbit have bad mouthed him at stages. That's the benefit of a transactional president: If you throw him a puppy treat he'll be all over it like a bitch in heat.

Deleting the tweets is just playing the game. You have not made a satisfactory case for Rudd's recall.

I love how it’s perfectly ok for Trump to hang shit on whoever he wants and the window lickers lap it up.

But any public criticism of Trump is blasphemy.

Cult.

 

[Episode IV]

So, months before the election result is known, people started accepting their own dire situation and not trying to leave for the US because they thought Trump would make it harder for them to enter?

It's a known phenomenon, Chief.

There are parallels right there in Australia. Tampa, Children overboard, etc.
Moral arguments aside, the patterns and methods of immigration (and illegal immigration in particular) in Australia tend to track with official attitudes towards them, and that includes debate prior to election.

Any push factors you'd credit? Or is it all pull factors?

Of course. I don't recall any instances in which I've said I've said other factors don't exist. On more than one occasion, I can very clearly remember being the one saying the exact opposite.
None of those reasons really apply to the discussion at hand though, do they. I'm talking about the effectiveness of the Trump administration's strategy in decreasing the desire for migrants to attempt illegal entry into the United States.

The Biden administration, and the view of the public that a Harris administration wouldn't have resulted in much in the way of change, were at least partially defeated because their rhetoric of Trump being a racist Nazi boogie man failed to address any real concerns the public had with regard to that issue.

 

[Blue1980]

Surely this has to be deliberate sabotage? I mean like if Putin and Xi could pick who they want to bring America to its knees, it’d look something like what Trump is doing.

Maybe Putin is choosing these people.

 

[Blue1980]

I don't think you're really aware of the scale of the problem in the USA, Chief. Not many around here really are... most live far away in Australia, and are free to sit back and discuss the moral issues on a forum far removed from any actual involvement.
So I'm not sure if you want a serious answer or not, here. If you do, I can give you one. Lots of graphs and charts, a bit of analysis, my usual method... you know, peddling actual information rather than engaging in the rhetoric.

If you want the short answer, it would be that you really need to stop focusing on the bullshit.

Look, if there is one thing the Democrats and the Republicans agree on, it's that illegal immigration is a problem, particularly on the Southern land border. No one (with knowledge of the situation and in the USA, with any authority) is disputing that.
A further thing the Republicans and some Democrats agree on is that one of the best ways to address the problem of illegal immigration is to make them not want to come. The Republicans and the Democrats don't agree on the best way to make them not want to come, however.

One of the most (if not the most) effective methods is to make them feel unwelcome.

Enter Trump.

A quick statistic. In December 2023, during the last phases of the Biden administration, Illegal "encounters" at the Southern border with Mexico reached a historic high of approximately 250,000. A quarter of a million attempts, in one month.
That's from the Pew Research Centre (https://www.pewresearch.org/short-r...-s-mexico-border-have-fallen-sharply-in-2024/).
In August 2024, at the height of the Presidential election campaign, it fell to a record low of just under 60,000.

Like it or not, Trump is very effective in reducing numbers of illegal arrivals in the USA - without having to lift a finger.

So with regard to your question, the answer is - at this point in time, it matters not a jot.

Perception v reality.

Perception for people wanting to come into the US over the border is the Dems will be nicer and more accomodating.

Reality is they deport more as a number and a percentage than the republicans.

It’s this perception v reality which led to Trump getting in again.

Also USA stop meddling and ****ing up countries south of the border so they will not be as desperate to come to the US would be a help, but one I assume they don’t want to consider.

 

[Blue1980]

The problem with the up coming Trump Presidency is that it doesn't represent anything American.
The people have been sold a fake US President..

It didn’t represent what the people wanted under the Dems and hasn’t for a very long time. I’d be going as far back as Carter for a time when the US govt did represent what people wanted as a majority to at least some degree (even then it’s a stretch).

Neoliberalism is the cancer which has spread and is now terminal for the US.

 

[Blue1980]

Trump and everyone filling his cabinet is a uniquely American grotesque. I think attempts to paint it as anything other than this, as some kind of outlier blip, is to ignore what America is and exactly what's wrong with it.

It’s following the trajectory it’s been on really, I mean it’s worse than before but not by as much as some people like to think.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

I love how it’s perfectly ok for Trump to hang shit on whoever he wants and the window lickers lap it up.

But any public criticism of Trump is blasphemy.

Cult.

I have a good recipe for defeating Trump supporters:

1. Ask them which Sky News article they have read when they post their uneducated shit.

2. Generally, they will try and explain their position using logic as they know Sky News is not an acceptable news source.

3. Rinse them when they confirm their stupidity.

4. Repeat until heat death of the universe.

 

[kranky al]

They really should call themselves “Blecks for Trrump eh”

 

[Blue1980]

get in there Donald!!

Don’t they want to lift the military budget, cos reasons?

 

[Blue1980]

You realise he and other Republicans have been President before right?

Not to mention trump himself

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Ill bite, please show me your inflated ego, emmm I mean intelligence?

obviously youre smarter than ELON right ? and all the other succesful people around the world that support trump,
Oh your a gem you are?

Talk your way out of that one?

What's Musk's agenda in all this exactly? Being Smart has nothing to do with how your moral compass is. There's been no evidence he does anything for the down trodden in society nor has he ever spoke glowingly about helping minimum wage type workers. This is about looking after his own interests and those similar to him. People like you seem to think because somebody rich and powerful votes a certain way than that is the correct way to go. Forgetting the fact that more often than not they couldn't give 2 shits about anybody not earning big bucks. He's already started on X. Censoring talk that's against what he believes in but is ok with right wing rhetoric/misinformation. Get used to this sort of stuff continuing because they have a mandate now to do what they like and anybody opposed can go suck eggs.

 

[Episode IV]

Perception for people wanting to come into the US over the border is the Dems will be nicer and more accomodating.

Reality is they deport more as a number and a percentage than the republicans.

I haven't looked into that aspect, so I don't know what the reality is there with regard to respective deportations.
One other thing to consider is that deportation itself is problematic, due to what are commonly referred to as "recalcitrant countries" who refuse to accept their own citizens.

There are significant problems in Europe with this already, in that asylum seekers who have their applications rejected cannot be deported back to their countries of origin for a few reasons (along with the recalcitrant nations). An example of that is that there are laws in place which prevent an asylum seeker from being deported to the country of origin when that asylum seeker might be considered to be in danger of harm by being returned.

There are also issues with deporting them to the point of entry - which in this case would be Mexico, and that also adds to the reason so many come via that country. Only the Mexicans can be sent back there.

Again in Europe as an example, there are agreements in place that illegal migrants should be held and dealt with in the country of arrival. There are several EU nations which refuse to comply with those directives - notably the ones bordering the Mediterranean, Italy being a case in point. When an asylum seeker indicates that they're "just passing through" on the way to somewhere more accommodating - usually Germany or the like - they're permitted to continue. Unofficially, of course.
To say that it is currently causing some friction within the EU would be an understatement.

So an asylum seeker who has had their claim rejected, but either claims they will be in danger if deported or if the country of origin is deemed to be dangerous in general, they remain in a legal limbo for years at a stretch... and sometimes, decades.
Those people then need to be provided with services by a state they are not contributing to economically, and if they have access to a good lawyer (which many of them do, even by way of advocacy groups) they can tie up the legal systems for years on end as well.

In Europe, the people in that situation are generally not permitted to be employed by the country they're living in, leaving them to be supported by the state.
In the USA, they often are - and one of the Biden administrations provisions within that failed Bill was that they would continue to be permitted to do so. So asylum seekers who have their applications for asylum rejected often end up as USA residents anyway, and have the same rights as anyone else with respect to employment and access to services.

Also USA stop meddling and ****ing up countries south of the border so they will not be as desperate to come to the US would be a help, but one I assume they don’t want to consider.

Yes, that's one of those points of view I mentioned earlier when talking about how you make them not want to come that some Democrats had prior to their own Primaries... the ones which didn't really happen.
The Democrats talking about this specifically were not the ones who ended up running for President.

 

[Financialpanther]

View attachment 2167457


They really should call themselves “Blecks for Trrump eh”

How many white Floridian men can you have in one cabinet anyways?

 

[Royces Hart]

which in this case would be Mexico, and that also adds to the reason so many come via that country

What other country would they come via?

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

I love how it’s perfectly ok for Trump to hang shit on whoever he wants and the window lickers lap it up.

But any public criticism of Trump is blasphemy.

Cult.

Isn't is more about who holds the better hand? If Rudd is going to put us at a disadvantage, then it would prudent to replace him. If not, then play on.

 

[Royces Hart]

How many white Floridian men can you have in one cabinet anyways?

 

[Episode IV]

What other country would they come via?

Canada, or they could come by sea or air, but I fail to see what that has to do with anything I said.

 

[Royces Hart]

Canada, or they could come by sea or air, but I fail to see what that has to do with anything I said.

You stated it was a reason that they come via Mexico.

These people aren’t getting visas to the US or Canada to come by air, via Mexico is their only feasible option.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

View attachment 2167472

All lining up for the early bird dinner special at 4:30pm

 

[Romeoh1]

I love how it’s perfectly ok for Trump to hang shit on whoever he wants and the window lickers lap it up.

But any public criticism of Trump is blasphemy.

Cult.

Yep- every single time - they completely turn a blind eye to his rude, abusive talk and then have a conniption if it’s returned. Cult plus.

 

[Romeoh1]

It's a known phenomenon, Chief.

There are parallels right there in Australia. Tampa, Children overboard, etc.
Moral arguments aside, the patterns and methods of immigration (and illegal immigration in particular) in Australia tend to track with official attitudes towards them, and that includes debate prior to election.


Of course. I don't recall any instances in which I've said I've said other factors don't exist. On more than one occasion, I can very clearly remember being the one saying the exact opposite.
None of those reasons really apply to the discussion at hand though, do they. I'm talking about the effectiveness of the Trump administration's strategy in decreasing the desire for migrants to attempt illegal entry into the United States.

The Biden administration, and the view of the public that a Harris administration wouldn't have resulted in much in the way of change, were at least partially defeated because their rhetoric of Trump being a racist Nazi boogie man failed to address any real concerns the public had with regard to that issue.

Codswallop -not supported by the facts. Bit more homework wouldn’t go astray.

 

[Royces Hart]

All lining up for the early bird dinner special at 4:30pm

Signing executive orders with their astronaut pens.

 

[Blue1980]

This is silly, but I like