Play Nice 47th President of the United States: Donald Trump - Part 20: If you want Capitalism, you got it

[Gethelred]

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USA - 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

Continued from Part 1 - https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2024-us-presidential-election-trump-vs-harris.1383317/

www.bigfooty.com

USA - Kamala Harris Concedes. God Help America

www.bigfooty.com

< - Trump 19 is back there.

 

[Bloods86]

you say its incorrect without providing any type of fact. Again please tell me what I have got wrong.

I'm happy to discuss but you are just trolling.

I pointed out that there were free markets, private enterprise in Nazi Germany, even though there was significant or almost total state control of some industries. It's your incorrect assumption that markets have to be totally free, void of any governmental interference, in order for capitalism to exist. Otherwise capitalism has never really existed. Musk has certainly made use of government interference by way of loans, subsidies etc.

It was also pointed out to you that Musk set about censoring critics, people mocking him etc after he bought Twitter. He also angered some in the MAGA camp by removing verification and censorship over the recent H1B fight.

The fact that the latter surprises you maybe means you should expand your sources of information.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

I pointed out that there were free markets, private enterprise in Nazi Germany, even though there was significant or almost total state control of some industries. It's your incorrect assumption that markets have to be totally free, void of any governmental interference, in order for capitalism to exist. Otherwise capitalism has never really existed.

It was also pointed out to you that Musk set about censoring critics, people mocking him etc after he bought Twitter. He also angered some in the MAGA camp by removing verification and censorship over the recent H1B fight.

The fact that the latter surprises you maybe means you should expand your sources of information.

Being anti-capitalist does not mean you shut down the economy......

You can still be anti-capitalist and allow private enterprise.

You should read

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ecaf.12551

I'm not across the full detail of what you are alleging but as far as I am aware The MAGA peoples posts relating to H1B Visas were removed as spam on X where they got a temporary ban, not because of a free speech issue, they then posted peoples personal information on X which is obviously against policy.

hardly "nazi" behaviour but again you do you.

 

[Spearman]

So, poor Noel just has impulse control issues then?

Desperately wants people to understand that even though the world’s richest man has thrown his weight behind numerous far right entities, he absolutely is not a Nazi, no way.

But then this DAMN TWITCHY RIGHT ARM of his just keeps letting him down!

With his sort of wealth you’d think he could afford some sort of pills for that condition.

Ever seen Dr Strangelove? Turns out our mistake was assuming it was satire.

need a gif of Strangelove with Musk's head shopped on

 

[Aussie in exile]

Don’t be racist, he’s African-American just like Charlize

He had Canadian citizenship at one time and still might have.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Musk has been openly flirting with far right politics and Nazi apologia for a while now. It's pretty obvious what happened if you just Occam's razor it instead of running with some schizo narrative about him making a mistake because he's neurodivergent.

He's a white South African what do you expect.
He family got very rich of apartheid.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Except when the pig doesn't act like a pig.........

If he is a Nazi, why does he support an incredible number of things that are completely opposite to Nazi ideology? Capitalism, Free Speech etc etc etc?

Is he maybe a only 50% Nazi?

Are his workers allowed to join a free trade union?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Are his workers allowed to join a free trade union?

what billionaire likes trade unions?

Bezos hates em also, Zuckerberg is also very anti union.

 

[Bloods86]

Being anti-capitalist does not mean you shut down the economy......

You can still be anti-capitalist and allow private enterprise.

You should read

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ecaf.12551

The MAGA peoples posts relating to H1B Visas were removed as spam on X as far as I am aware, not because of a free speech issue, they then posted peoples personal information on X which is obviously against policy.

Why are you putting words in my mouth? Who said anything about shutting down the economy?

I said at the start that Nazi Germany could be considered a form of state capitalism. You could make money, acquire assets, exploit market conditions etc. Many business leaders and state actors became very wealthy, that it was also state actors doesn't negate the model. Whether the economy was as free from government interference or control as Musk would have it, doesn't matter, capitalism still existed and thrived for some. And just because he likes making money, not entirely on a free market mind you, doesn't mean he can't sympathise/agree with aspects of Nazi ideology anyway.

I'm sure Musk has his explanations as to why he had to censor accounts. Of course, no allowance is likely made for the reasons behind any censorship before he came along.

He has also supported and financially backed a candidate that tried to fraudulently overturn a democratic election, in an attempt to silence the electoral voice of 80 or so million Americans, but we'll hang our hat on private companies regulating their platforms (which is not what the 1st amendment is about but hey, who cares about that in regards to free speech discussions).

 

[Spearman]

Depends how you define dumb, but republican voters are much less likely to be ducated to a high level these days. In part it explains why twitter and tiktok were such successful platforms for messages. Short, sharp, no need for facts or fact checking.

Yeah, that's one demographic of GOP voters. They can be diverse in their reasons. They types that were not aware enough to even know Biden had bowed out probably make up a large part.
I also keep going back to their consumption of knowledge. Watch a Hannity some time. The one I recently checked out was unrelentingly about how Biden was shit, how he destroyed America etc. Same shit they love to spout with no factual backup. Of course, he never criticizes Trump even for the most egregious stuff. What are his viewship numbers? Even the Fox consumers who profess to just watch for entertainment get that BS day after day. If there were a way to measure it, the more diverse the information sources a person has I'd bet would show a much more balanced view on the world, and they would most likely not vote for a Trump or MAGA related candidate.
Wasn't there a study about weening some hardcore Fox viewers off it and they later self-described themselves as happier, and shocked at what the rest of the world were getting?

 

[magpie_marty]

He ****ed things up so well the first time he has to do it twice.

100% Correct

 

[magpie_marty]

Depends how you define dumb, but republican voters are much less likely to be ducated to a high level these days. In part it explains why twitter and tiktok were such successful platforms for messages. Short, sharp, no need for facts or fact checking.

Most Trump supporters only watch the 5,Jesse Waters,Sean Hannity,Laura Ingram,Mark Levine and Gutterfield
Is my guess the rest rely on RSBN and Newsmax.
Also pod casts from Bannon,Joe Reagan and Mike Lindell the pillow guy
Now we switch to what they read Breibart,The Gate Way Pundit.
And To toss in two more X and Truth Social.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Why are you putting words in my mouth? Who said anything about shutting down the economy?

I said at the start that Nazi Germany could be considered a form of state capitalism. You could make money, acquire assets, exploit market conditions etc. Many business leaders and state actors became very wealthy, that it was also state actors doesn't negate the model. Whether the economy was as free from government interference or control as Musk would have it, doesn't matter, capitalism still existed and thrived for some. And just because he likes making money, not entirely on a free market mind you, doesn't mean he can't sympathise/agree with aspects of Nazi ideology anyway.

I'm sure Musk has his explanations as to why he had to censor accounts. Of course, no allowance is likely made for the reasons behind any censorship before he came along.

He has also supported and financially backed a candidate that tried to fraudulently overturn a democratic election, in an attempt to silence the electoral voice of 80 or so million Americans, but we'll hang our hat on private companies regulating their platforms (which is not what the 1st amendment is about but hey, who cares about that in regards to free speech discussions).

so, are you saying he IS Nazi? or that he agrees with some parts of Nazi ideology?

 

[Spearman]

Bloke is a fascist friendly oligarch who would definitely use slave labour.

No one said he IS a Nazi in the 1940s Germany sense. But it was a nazi salute, which is a clear signal to the far-right cohort he’s an obvious fan of given he amplifies their talking points and political parties.

It wasn't a perfect Heil Hitler so therefore it was not a Nazi salute. Just like the Ukraine phone call was not illegal because he didn't use the words 'quid pro quo'.

The salute is in the motion, not still photos.

 

[ElectricG]

If he has done enough bad things that are consistent with this, and you aren't denying these are just a group of Nazis, then why the hell are you hellbent on arguing this one little instance which doesn't even matter

(he did say it btw)

Because we should tell the truth?

 

[Deliverance]

1999



He was fine the last time, negativity was blown out of proportion

Why 99?

 

[Xtreme]

Why 99?

The Clinton years were great, only had to worry about stains on clothing, instead of someone with an itchy finger on the red button!

 

[Spearman]

If people voted for Trump because he pulled out of the Paris Agreement, well yes that is stupid. What other word is there?

Fox backs the climate change denial culture war, enough said.

 

[Aussie in exile]

what billionaire likes trade unions?

Bezos hates em also, Zuckerberg is also very anti union.

So you would be fully aware that Nai Germany banned free trade union as well then.
So they are falling into line with the Nazi doctrine.

 

[Deliverance]

The Clinton years were great, only had to worry about stains on clothing, instead of someone with an itchy finger on the red button!

Who wrecked it after that?

 

[Xtreme]

Who wrecked it after that?

 

[faible]

It wasn't a perfect Heil Hitler so therefore it was not a Nazi salute. Just like the Ukraine phone call was not illegal because he didn't use the words 'quid pro quo'.

The salute is in the motion, still photos.

Poor Elon just needs the benefit of the doubt. Ignore all the far-right stuff he reposts or likes, the eugenics, the unbanning actual neo-nazi’s, the fascist salute was just another accident.

 

[Deliverance]

Fool me once...

 

[Spearman]

Your first two are outright incorrect.

This has been pointed out to you and why.

Don't be lazy.

This conversation is deja vu all over again.

 

[spinynorman]

Even if it was an autistic stim (I’m not buying that but I’ll humour the premise)

The guys who actually self identify as Nazi’s are actively celebrating it and see it as a validation of their beliefs and that they have friends in the president and people who the president seemingly trusts

So shouldn’t Elon say… I dunno use his platform as the owner of one of the largest social media platforms to comment on it and distance himself from the Nazi angle altogether and actually say himself it was a silly thing to do

Just so the actual Nazis see it as a dog whistle

I don't see how anyone could look at their "For You" section on Twitter and think "No way the guy behind this is a Nazi."

 

[Cooldude]

Because we should tell the truth?

Okay then, Trump has an army of Nazis licking his boots and following his farts wherever he goes, it's the Nazi movement, is that a truth you disagree with?