AFL Autopsy 5 pt loss v Swans

[Dave]

Well that was fun. 8 rounds in and it’s deja vu all over again. The season may not be done but we pretty much are, again. Frustrating as ****.

The one thing that keeps us going as fans is hope, boy does this team do a good job of killing it.

Rampe free kick, meh. They miss plenty, this is just a little higher profile. We played shit, end of story.

 

[Milanista28]

The fact that John and the coaches couldn't see that Hooker was required forward during the team selection process is worrying.

Hartley should have played in Zac Clarkes place and Hooker played forward.

 

[BrunoV]

I always hope I am wrong. Can never say I have ever gone into a game wanting the opposition to win.

As far as injury goes. Do not agree either. Players get injured. All clubs press on with players who have slight injury issues. Sometimes it comes back to bite them. That is football and not an Essendon thing.

As far as playing young players goes. We play as many as anyone else. There are a few who have missed out but there have been more who have been given a chance.

Go and read the "Children are our future" thread for a start. All of the cracks papered over by a "recovery" that didn't even result in finals.

I'm also not really interested in what the vast majority of other clubs do given that in any given year they also underachieve.

Our team selection is a joke and it's no less of a joke just because it's stupidity reflected by the rest of the football industry. I don't respect dogma.

There has been a clear double standards when it comes to selection of young players in the 7 years I've watched the VFL closely. We bring Myers in to play the standard of football Langford plays (probably because he gets 1 extra block in despite the fact that he can't handball the ball).

We select a forward line that has no tall leading forward targets. We switch Francis who can't run forward, when we need to leave him in the reserves to develop his defensive game, before we'd dare play Langford who can run all day in a role that suits the way he plays (also being the role he was recruited playing). See, people will say that it's not the plan to bomb the ball but then why are we playing Francis over Langford if that is the case? Francis is going to find more ball on the lead than Langford? It's not about development because it's not benefitting either player. Is Clarke a renowned leading forward?

Ridley gets dropped in response to the GWS game - I'll never get over that. He then gets dropped for playing a game which is, what, 5/10 when he has senior team mates who are terrible week to week? Look at Jack Henry. He debuted in 2018 and he's played 28 games since then. Am I supposed to believe Henry is a better player than Ridley and/or that Henry wasn't competing with decent players? What about in 2016/2017 when Kolodjashnij played on a wing because Scott and co knew they had to fit him into a team. It's hard at this point not to draw attention to moving Ablett and Joel Selwood out of the centre square (because they know they want Constable in the side among other things) even though it's not directly on point

There is no point talking about Laverde and Stewart being injured when they were never part of the original planning. How were alarm bells not ringing when Joe was unavailable for 6 weeks? Instead of playing Stewart or Hooker (switching Brown into defence if you want to reward him for sterling form on the track) they play a forward line with 1 tall that can take a mark. Remember how bad Brown was before he got dropped no doubt that was inconsistent with his training form? Focus on the original planning not what can't happen when it is too late.

Even bringing Clarke into the team over Draper. What the hell was that? Draper is 25x the competitor Clarke is. He's better over head and he runs out VFL games basically rucking solo. I don't care about injury when it doesn't explain why we played a player as bad as Zac Clarke on 2 occasions before Draper got injured. Did Draper really need 2 or 3 more VFL games? Try and map that out on paper to explain how that would make a difference.

What about playing Guelfi in defence where he is a liability and dropping Long from JLT1 (where he was good in defence and one of the few players we have)?

Am I supposed to be excited that we play Ham? Or even Guelfi to be a slow wingman?

Coaches have their favourites, I get it, but if they want to be that unprofessional they had better deliver top 4 finishes. Otherwise what are we paying them for, particularly when apparently all that is required is some assistants to do all the coaching and Neale Balme?

 

[Shanghaistu]

Woke up to the goal-post 'controversy' and all I can really say is that it sums up the modern game and the AFL as a brand pretty perfectly for mine.

Also realised that I really only care about last nights result in a detached way. There's clearly something deeply, culturally 'wrong' (wrong as in it has a negative effect on building teams, preparing for and winning football games) at the club right now and while it will be interesting to see if and how its tried to be fixed', I really can't see where it's going to start.
Dropping the usual suspects on gameday doesn't change a culture that clearly isn't able to get a team ready to play (see most of our 1st quarters, and the start of seasons), and it really doesn't seem that we have enough of the type of player/personality in the group who will put their hand up and both say and demonstrate the application, dedication and playing style needed to win important (finals) games of football. We will continue to win games here and there because we have some talent on the list and from time to time they'll click together, but I can't see this group achieving success together, and I also worry that the younger guys get inculcated with the same attitudes as a lot of the senior guys, meaning that they now perceive this as 'good enough'.

Does a lot of it still stem from the 'saga'? Did the senior guys who missed a year and got dragged through the mud realise that the game is fleeting and can be taken away at any moment, so just enjoy it? Did they glimpse life away from footy and understand there's more out there, just being fixated on training and playing is a waste? Neither of things are wrong, but they aren't conducive to a winning environment. I won't question Heppell's leadership (at least he tried to get things going last night), I won't question the endeavor of most at the contest (we have some lazy players, that's pretty much expected to a degree), and genuinely believe that from siren-to-siren the playing group wants to win. After the siren and during the week? I think we've established a set a culture that is professional and hard working, but doesn't have that mind-set of continual challenge and improvement. They guys turn up, they train 'hard', but the ruthlessness and desire that is needed for more than 2 hours each week in order to become a champion team instead of just good, solid proffesionals just doesn't appear to be there. Until you can instill that mindset into a playing group, along with a game-plan or instructions that best utilise the skills available, we are going to keep being a mediocre club who has to hope the umps call technically correct frees in order to have a chance....[/QUOTE]
You are absolutely spot-on.
We need Sheeds version 2.0

 

[rumply]

& of course the afl tick off the Rampe non decision, incapable of admitting error these ****ers.

 

[brew]

I just know Hawthorne are going to smack GWS on Sunday to really ruin my weekend.

Relax... You got nothing to worry about

 

[BrunoV]

That’s an insult to women’s hockey teams.

That's the nature of the beast.

 

[Shanghaistu]

Yellow vests at the next game anyone...?

 

[KevDawg]

The fact that John and the coaches couldn't see that Hooker was required forward during the team selection process is worrying.

Hartley should have played in Zac Clarkes place and Hooker played forward.

I’m not sure moving Cale forward should’ve been required if we weren’t bombing it long in the first place.
With Joey out, couldn’t the strategy have been to keep it low to our leading smaller forwards?
Could Joey have played and just been rested in the the forward 50m for the game?
Lastly, Clarke’s value. I just don’t see it. He was played up forward for a lot of the game.

 

[ant555]

Go and read the "Children are our future" thread for a start. All of the cracks papered over by a "recovery" that didn't even result in finals.

I'm also not really interested in what the vast majority of other clubs do given that in any given year they also underachieve.

Our team selection is a joke and it's no less of a joke just because it's stupidity reflected by the rest of the football industry. I don't respect dogma.

There has been a clear double standards when it comes to selection of young players in the 7 years I've watched the VFL closely. We bring Myers in to play the standard of football Langford plays (probably because he gets 1 extra block in despite the fact that he can't handball the ball).

We select a forward line that has no tall leading forward targets. We switch Francis who can't run forward, when we need to leave him in the reserves to develop his defensive game, before we'd dare play Langford who can run all day in a role that suits the way he plays (also being the role he was recruited playing). See, people will say that it's not the plan to bomb the ball but then why are we playing Francis over Langford if that is the case? Francis is going to find more ball on the lead than Langford? It's not about development because it's not benefitting either player. Is Clarke a renowned leading forward?

Ridley gets dropped in response to the GWS game - I'll never get over that. He then gets dropped for playing a game which is, what, 5/10 when he has senior team mates who are terrible week to week? Look at Jack Henry. He debuted in 2018 and he's played 28 games since then. Am I supposed to believe Henry is a better player than Ridley and/or that Henry wasn't competing with decent players? What about in 2016/2017 when Kolodjashnij played on a wing because Scott and co knew they had to fit him into a team. It's hard at this point not to draw attention to moving Ablett and Joel Selwood out of the centre square (because they know they want Constable in the side among other things) even though it's not directly on point

There is no point talking about Laverde and Stewart being injured when they were never part of the original planning. How were alarm bells not ringing when Joe was unavailable for 6 weeks? Instead of playing Stewart or Hooker (switching Brown into defence if you want to reward him for sterling form on the track) they play a forward line with 1 tall that can take a mark. Remember how bad Brown was before he got dropped no doubt that was inconsistent with his training form? Focus on the original planning not what can't happen when it is too late.

Even bringing Clarke into the team over Draper. What the hell was that? Draper is 25x the competitor Clarke is. He's better over head and he runs out VFL games basically rucking solo. I don't care about injury when it doesn't explain why we played a player as bad as Zac Clarke on 2 occasions before Draper got injured. Did Draper really need 2 or 3 more VFL games? Try and map that out on paper to explain how that would make a difference.

What about playing Guelfi in defence where he is a liability and dropping Long from JLT1 (where he was good in defence and one of the few players we have)?

Am I supposed to be excited that we play Ham? Or even Guelfi to be a slow wingman?

Coaches have their favourites, I get it, but if they want to be that unprofessional they had better deliver top 4 finishes. Otherwise what are we paying them for, particularly when apparently all that is required is some assistants to do all the coaching and Neale Balme?

Well articulated as always but I just don't agree.

Draper / Clarke. Clarke was only ever the insurance . The planing was always Draper would be the next in line by seasons end. IMO you can not say Draper was ready to play until you had a look at him in the first few VFL games. The fact is he was supposed to play a half last week . I here he was going to play this week but did his ACL before half time last week. They could not forecast an ACL and missed by a week.

Langford V Myers. I would prefer Langford as well but he is not up to inside midfielder. Lacks the physical game and is a slow decision maker. It is not costing us wins. The only issue is it may well cost Langford his spot because he is a flanker / wing and not an inside midfielder. I agree he should be played forward and have questioned him not being moved back there.

Guelfi v Long. Do not agree. Geulfi has done more on a regular basis than Long. Not saying Geulfi is great. He has had some poor patches as well but I do not agree Long has had even close to the form Geulfi has had.

Ham. He was average but his first game was okay and he was one of the better players in the VFL last week.

Ridley being dropped after the GWS game I did not agree with.


At the end of the day right now we are placing band aids over a few spots. Debating which brand of band aid we use does not change the fact we are using band aids or the fact that some key players like Walla are not delivering or that both Shiel and Merrett went at under 60% or McKenna has not improved and is turning over the footy in the back half or the fact that if we could actually work out team defence the opposition would not be able to move the ball as well as the do against us.

And I did read the other thread. I also said I was not buying we where anything more than a middle of the road side and we where a 10 to 13 win side.

 

[Matthew_Lloyd]

1. If we are going to persist with Woosha in 2020 and beyond, then we need a clean-out of assistant coaches (with the exception of Kelly and Rutten). Surround him with modern assistants who have experienced recent success. We need a full and INDEPENDENT review of every aspect of this club. It is ****ing staggering that this shit has been going on for 15 years.

a. If we decide to can Worsfold, then we must pursue someone with recent premiership success who is not afraid to make hard calls. None of these yes men that will continue to persist with players like Myers and Zaharakis. I wouldn't be opposed to someone like Brett Ratten given another chance as senior coach.​

​

2. Give some of our younger guys a chance. Richmond, for the shit year they had in 2016, blooded 8 debutants. Myers isn't going to become a serviceable player. He is turning 30 in another month and has been barely average his entire career.

3. Give Hurley or Hooker the captaincy. Heppell isn't a captain.

4. Change the gameplan. We have been worked out. Block the corridor and make McKenna and Saad accountable and we turn to shit.

It isn't doom and gloom, but unless drastic changes are made, we are going to continue being mediocre. It is simply unacceptable that we have been in this position for 15 years.

​

​

 

[Howard Moon]

I have a question for the elders who reside here...

I was born in 78 so for all intents and purposes I was born into a successful era, my first memories are flags , finals and big club ethos.

Clearly 84 was our first flag since 65, 24 years in the football wilderness. I assume we were classed as a powerhouse in the 60s. So what transpired between 65 and 83... Is it similar to what has happened since 2000?

Moreover, Ive read that we were near basket case levels in the mid to late 70s, soft, no identity ect. (Sound familiar?)

It took a brash young go getter to come in , sweep the place clean, instill culture, a hard nosed list ect. And so the cycle continues.

Question being, do we need our young go getter to come in and do the Sheedy treatment from the ground up? Like right now? Or are they still attached to the idea we are in window?

A bloke like hodge reeks of potential sheedy, but I think the difference is Sheedy was an ess fan, I think it matters. I genuinely reckon the ess haw thing runs too deep for hodge to work.

 

[citizen-erased]

15 year member!!! Timeline corresponds with us being mediocre. Finally, we have a scapegoat. This is all your fault.

I joined in 01
I'm blaming myself

 

[ant555]

1. If we are going to persist with Woosha in 2020 and beyond, then we need a clean-out of assistant coaches (with the exception of Kelly and Rutten). Surround him with modern assistants who have experienced recent success. We need a full and INDEPENDENT review of every aspect of this club. It is ******* staggering that this **** has been going on for 15 years.

a. If we decide to can Worsfold, then we must pursue someone with recent premiership success who is not afraid to make hard calls. None of these yes men that will continue to persist with players like Myers and Zaharakis. I wouldn't be opposed to someone like Brett Ratten given another chance as senior coach.​

​

2. Give some of our younger guys a chance. Richmond, for the **** year they had in 2016, blooded 8 debutants. Myers isn't going to become a serviceable player. He is turning 30 in another month and has been barely average his entire career.

3. Give Hurley or Hooker the captaincy. Heppell isn't a captain.

4. Change the gameplan. We have been worked out. Block the corridor and make McKenna and Saad accountable and we turn to ****.

It isn't doom and gloom, but unless drastic changes are made, we are going to continue being mediocre. It is simply unacceptable that we have been in this position for 15 years.

​

​

The main reason the game plan comes unstuck is when we do not have someone in the side or able to take a few marks in the forward half. It takes away the next option and forces the side to either try and pick through or just bomb and hope. Hawthorn ended up with the same issue. Sides took away their short kicking game and with Roughy on the down slide and Buddy gone eventually they where forced to just kick and hope and the best defence just picked them off. We suffer the same fate without Joe version 2017 and to a lesser degree McKernan when he is on song.

 

[ant555]

I joined in 01
I'm blaming myself

I have been a member since 74 so I have seen Bad. Average. Good. Fantastic.Good.Average.Fantastic.Average and back to bad

 

[Duckworth]

I have a question for the elders who reside here...

I was born in 78 so for all intents and purposes I was born into a successful era, my first memories are flags , finals and big club ethos.

Clearly 84 was our first flag since 65, 24 years in the football wilderness. I assume we were classed as a powerhouse in the 60s. So what transpired between 65 and 83... Is it similar to what has happened since 2000?

Moreover, Ive read that we were near basket case levels in the mid to late 70s, soft, no identity ect. (Sound familiar?)

It took a brash young go getter to come in , sweep the place clean, instill culture, a hard nosed list ect. And so the cycle continues.

Question being, do we need our young go getter to come in and do the Sheedy treatment from the ground up? Like right now? Or are they still attached to the idea we are in window?

A bloke like hodge reeks of potential sheedy, but I think the difference is Sheedy was an ess fan, I think it matters. I genuinely reckon the ess haw thing runs too deep for hodge to work.

We are underachieving for the list that we have. If you compare us to Geelong, the players are less clear on their role and are less drilled in how to execute. The coach doesn't get to put the entire outcome 'on the players' for this.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Just got in from moon mission, all comms off. So just saw this end of game photo, so we won right?

 

[ant555]

Just got in from moon mission, all comms off. So just saw this end of game photo, so we won right?View attachment 671400

Well we did put in an effort ..........

 

[ABSOLUTE MADMAN]

Hep and Myers laughing at the end sum it up. I never read into that **** but **** me dead

WTF was with that. The optics were ****ing terrible. Hope the supporter base is furious over that.

 

[jaguaress]

Gutted.

 

[Lore]

BTV: Rd 8 | Heppell post-game


Not on youtube yet and can't embed the afl/essendon website videos.

Worth a listen though. He's quite specific about what went wrong, what they need to do.

 

[astrowizzle]

That’s what every opposition supporter whose team loses more than they win thinks. There’s no conspiracy

I wouldn't mind ifhat was the case. In the 80 90 and 2000 we were still continually ****ed over by umpires. We were dominant in many of those years and got reamed. I think if someone does a check on 40 years of statds we would be on the ass end of free kicks in that period. I am sick of it. Hird didn't complain for no reason. Probably part.of the reason the still ream us

 

[Howard Moon]

Just for the kicker...didn't the goal line free come about from Fletcher repeat offending?

Used to be maybe a fine?

'Essendon defender Dustin Fletcher pleaded guilty to an unusual charge of shaking a goal post during Sunday’s 52-goal epic at the MCG, and accepted an automatic fine of $A600. TV footage shows that, as Roo Jess Sinclair lined up for a goal near the behind post at the Ponsford Stand end in the third quarter, Fletcher was shown to be shaking the right goal post. Fitzroy’s Darren Wheildon was fined $A750 for shaking a goal post when a teammate was having a shot for goal in September 1993.'

hahaha doc shaking post while teammate kicks

 

[brutus76]

Ok had another look.
1. Ham was good and ran his *** off to make and get into position. Swans pressure and our sloppy handballs prevented him being utilised.
2. Redman. Love this kid.
3. Pidgeodo to HBF. Irish to the wing.
4. Shiel although tagged at least put his body on the line and was in every contest unlike a few others. Goes in hard for a pretty boy.

I'll be at next weeks game. I need to see a fired up response im flying in from Brisbane so ******** wisen up and lift godammit!!!!

 

[andleanback]

Myers comes back into side and takes parish's spot after he was arguably our best last week. Surely his time is up 11 touches playing as a mid is no where near good enough. He's out of contract at the end of the year put him in the vfl to rot, bring in begley to play forward and put parish back in his deserved spot.