A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

[BringBackTorps]

If there isn't a permanent drop in income, and if the AFL doesn't drive itself deep into debt by taking a lot of it's line of credit, then these changes will not last long.

I disagree.

There is a very strong groundswell building, amongst past & present AFL administrators, past & present senior Club Officials, MSM experts, & former players, that the bloated, unnecessary, & overpaid greedy Football Depts'. must be reduced (& ditto Lists, AFL HQ & Club HQ cost etc.) heavily, on a permanent basis (excluding player wages, medical & rehab. staff).
The "Football Industry" (sic) was a wasteful, indulgent con, just to enrich all the hangers-on.

Australia has the most competitive sporting environment in the world, with 4 professional football codes, & other professional sports.
Male AF GR competition player nos. are in a long term, per capita decline in Vic., WA, SA. Many also say the crucial, but struggling, WAFL & SANFL might last c. 20 years.

Tasmania is the major failure of the AFL, its male GR comp. nos. have probably reduced in raw terms (Tas. GR basketball & soccer are booming).
Its population is now bigger than the 80's- but it is no longer the fabled recruitment goldmine of champions & stars for the VFL/AFL, its legendary status reflected in the fact it is overrepresented in the AFL Hall OF Fame, & AFL Team Of The Century.

MUCH more AFL funds need to be spent in Tas., & ALL OVER AUSTRALIA, on the GR. The internet, Foxtel, some movies etc. are delivering elite foreign sporting comps. to viewers in Aust., seriously challenging AF.

Clubs with big cash balances will want to turn that into a performance edge

Yes. It is inevitable.

No one is suggesting it is wise for Clubs to sit on tens of millions of cash in the bank. Clubs need to invest these funds to benefit GR AF generally, AND provide small priority recruiting benefits directly for these rich clubs.
It's praiseworthy that Clubs want to make good profits, & the AFL etc. should encourage them- & we should not, & cannot, reverse the "animal spirits" of capitalism...but use it to advance AF GR.

(Perhaps WC & Freo can discuss with the WA govt. the possibility of taking an equity interest in Perth Stadium- c.16% of all PS profits?- by funding Perth Stadium's increase to 70,000 capacity- it already has the engineered foundations. Cost probably much less than $80m in today's $.
Increasing Giants Stadium, by 6000 to 30,000, will only cost. $20m.
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/s...y/news-story/1b9f11bf82fd5592e5e0ace278939b0b ).

The Clubs that make very good profits, for at least 3 years in a row, should be encouraged to invest in GR exclusive Zones granted to them in NSW (eg Newcastle) Qld (eg Townsville), NZ (eg Auckland or Wellington), & PNG- & possibly the Pacific nations, US, Canada, & South Africa. Maybe Europe & India also.
See my CAFEGZPP proposal & details in link below, for their recruitment advantages.

One way will be facilities.

No- wasteful. There are other better utilisation of AFL Club funds.

Read Peter Jackson's comments above in post#2504, re NMFC in the 90's, & MFC- & the superiority, & crucial importance, of "Club culture & environment", cf "Facilities", in ensuring success.

why are grass roots facilities so poor, when you have all that cash? Followed closely by government, which would have a point. Why should we invest in facilities, when you have all that cash?

Very valid point, & I'm not suggesting Clubs invest in GR facilities in Vic., WA, SA, Tas., & NT.
I'm suggesting Club investment in AF promotional/recruitment programs in NSW, Qld., NZ etc.; & that Clubs should not sit on many tens of Millions in cash- they should invest it, for the benefits of the game.

I have to say though with all this cost cutting, you're going to be right about some clubs turning monster profits. I wouldn't expect the big clubs to cop much of a revenue decrease once everything is back to normal.

Probably correct for the 5 rich Clubs.
We also know the AFL Rights' $, at least until end of 2024, are likely to be similar quantum to current Rights (excluding season 2020).

The rich clubs can be offered the option of investing many millions, for a minimum 10 year period, in the Club Australian Football Exclusive Grassroots Zone Promotional Program- CAFEGZPP.
CAFEGZPP details here.

Tasmania - Congratulations on Tassie License. Mens team to enter 2028. Womens team TBA. Other details TBA 3/5

GO TO PART 2 of this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/congratulations-on-tassie-license-mens-team-to-enter-2028-womens-team-tba-other-details-tba-3-5-part-2.1357724/

www.bigfooty.com

(See post#2239)

 

[RedV3x]

Because you can have both. Spend your money then get government handouts, rather then just spending your own money more conservatively

Yes and you can leverage your profits also which is very common at local government level.

Profit means

Being able to make capital improvements to a sporting club much more easyly than relying purely on handouts.
If your club is not on the pork barrel list then you'll have to mount a case for funds.
That usually entails how popular, resourceful and how funded your club is.

 

[RedV3x]

Male AF GR competition player nos. are in a long term, per capita decline in Vic., WA, SA.

Whilst your statement is absolutely true, you have to be careful extrapolating conclusions.

WAFL & SANFL might last c. 20 years.

Second tier competitions on the mainland have greater problems than a slight male player participation decline.

Tasmania is the major failure of the AFL, its male GR comp. nos. have probably reduced in raw terms

The neglect of Tasmania is compounded because the decline in numbers are closer to a critical mass.

Tasmania ... is no longer the fabled recruitment goldmine of champions & stars for the VFL/AFL,

There are many reasons for that, not just participation problems.
1. The addition of W.A., S.A., Qld, N.S.W., U.S.A and Ireland into the statistics.
2. The draft methodology targeting athletes before seasoned players.
3. Possibly the lack oc structure in Tasmanian football.

MUCH more AFL funds need to be spent in Tas., & ALL OVER AUSTRALIA, on the GR.

No argument there. It should be the obvious focus of investment.

TThe internet, Foxtel, some movies etc. are delivering elite foreign sporting comps. to viewers in Aust.,

Australian Football has done a great job in appealing to Australia's immigrant population.
Where people have choices and options then there will be different preferences and in Australia you have the most choices.
People play Australian Football despite the almost suffocating aura of soccer.
People play Australian Football despite having the choice of well known and well publicised other major sports.
Yes, there has to be a greater investment in Australian Football in Tasmania - not because there are other sporting threats,
but simply to make Tasmanian football vibrant again.

It seems that American Football is losing a lot of junior participation despite the NFL being as popular as ever.
This is not because soccer is a threat, but because American Football itself has a problem to resolve.
If Americans have the option of Australian Football then a lot of them would say
"here is an interesting game that isn't as dangerous as NFL and a lot more interesting than soccer".
But Americans don't have that choice.
In Australia, you can easily play baseball but despite it arguably being a better game to play, baseball remains a minor sport.
Is that the cause of cricket or of baseball? Cricket is the incumbent and it's up to baseball to act not to wait on the demise of cricket.

 

[BringBackTorps]

1. 3AW 693 Melb. Radio G. Healy sport program 22.4

GWS CEO D. Matthews indicates there is now no concrete proposals from US-based wealthy GWS members & supporters to purchase GWS ie private ownership. Discussions are occuring, & "billionaires" support is important.

Matthews did say, however

"Is there an opportunity for people to invest?...Currently (non US, my words) private coterie groups are investing $4m per year. Is there an equity or participation that incentivises more?...We have the best game in the world...Is there a way of attracting more investment? It should be considered".


2. S. McClure said to D. Matthews the NRL is considering him as the possible new NRL CEO- Matthews said he wasn't aware, & suggested he had no interest.

When GWS commenced in 2012, many NRL, RU & soccer officials/MSM experts (also some AFL MSM experts) etc. predicted that GWS would be an abysmal failure in the, then, barren-for-AF western Sydney. A few NRL officials were publicly commenting that "GWS would be the AFL's Vietnam".

Now, however, this NRL interest in D. Matthews is an implicit endorsement that GWS has been a strong success- & implies GWS in particular, & AF in general, are likely to further prosper in WS.
It can be assumed we will no longer be regaled by once gleeful NRL Officials, & NRL, RU & soccer MSM etc., about the impending doom awaiting GWS!

GWS chief responds to NRL link

GWS chief Dave Matthews has been left bemused after his named was linked with the now vacant NRL chief executive position, following Todd Greenberg’s departure from the role. “It hasn’t, has it?” Matthews said on Sportsday. “To be honest, I don’t even know the rules. “I’m more than happy doing...

www.3aw.com.au

(Go to 7 minutes 2 seconds -11 mins.10 secs.)




2. SEN Radio Melb. Watson & Lyon program 24.4

T. Watson said, re the permanent cuts to the Football Dept. cap (which will help the sustainability of future expansion clubs in NSW/ACT)

"It could go down to $5m, it might go lower than $5m".

AFL soft caps could be “halved”: Tim Watson

“I’m hearing it could be as low as $5 million."

www.sen.com.au

 

[Aussie in exile]

1. 3AW 693 Melb. Radio G. Healy sport program 22.4

GWS CEO D. Matthews indicates there is now no concrete proposals from US-based wealthy GWS members & supporters to purchase GWS ie private ownership. Discussions are occuring, & "billionaires" support is important.

Matthews did say, however

"Is there an opportunity for people to invest?...Currently (non US, my words) private coterie groups are investing $4m per year. Is there an equity or participation that incentivises more?...We have the best game in the world...Is there a way of attracting more investment? It should be considered".


2. S. McClure said to D. Matthews the NRL is considering him as the possible new NRL CEO- Matthews said he wasn't aware, & suggested he had no interest.

When GWS commenced in 2012, many NRL, RU & soccer officials/MSM experts (also some AFL MSM experts) etc. predicted that GWS would be an abysmal failure in the, then, barren-for-AF western Sydney. A few NRL officials were publicly commenting that "GWS would be the AFL's Vietnam".

Now, however, this NRL interest in D. Matthews is an implicit endorsement that GWS has been a success- & implies GWS in particular, & AF in general, are likely to further prosper in WS.
It can be assumed we will no longer be regaled by gleeful NRL Officials & NRL, RU & soccer MSM etc. about the impending doom awaiting GWS!

GWS chief responds to NRL link

GWS chief Dave Matthews has been left bemused after his named was linked with the now vacant NRL chief executive position, following Todd Greenberg’s departure from the role. “It hasn’t, has it?” Matthews said on Sportsday. “To be honest, I don’t even know the rules. “I’m more than happy doing...

www.3aw.com.au

(Go to 7 minutes 02 seconds -11 mins.10 secs.)




2. SEN Radio Melb. Watson & Lyon program 24.4

T.Watson said, re the permanent cuts to the Football Dept. cap (which will help the sustainability of future expansion clubs In NSW/ACT)

"It could go down to $5m, it might go lower than $5m".

AFL soft caps could be “halved”: Tim Watson

“I’m hearing it could be as low as $5 million."

www.sen.com.au

I seriously doubt if there was any concrete proposals in the first place.
To buy any sports team where you have to inject $25 million a year just to tread water is not a good idea

 

[RedV3x]

I seriously doubt if there was any concrete proposals in the first place.

Says the man who's been proven to know nothing about Australian Football.

To buy any sports team where you have to inject $25 million a year.

What $US 13 million? Bargain. Aren't we talking about Billionaires so maybe 1% at the most.
That's nothing. Maybe you should stop thinking in baht.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Says the man who's been proven to know nothing about Australian Football.



What $US 13 million? Bargain. Aren't we talking about Billionaires so maybe 1% at the most.
That's nothing. Maybe you should stop thinking in baht.

Do you know what the axiom of a successful business is?
Name these billionaires if they exist with a link to buy GWS?

 

[RedV3x]

Name these billionaires if they exist with a link to buy GWS?

You're the doubter. You name the billionaires not willing to invest in GWS.

 

[Aussie in exile]

You're the doubter. You name the billionaires not willing to invest in GWS.

So there is not link, oh what a surprise , despite your best attemps to find one and you FAILED.
In future when you make a claim on here just provide the link. If there isn't a link don't make a claim.

 

[RedV3x]

Do you know what the axiom of a successful business is?

Axioms ? How about

 

[RedV3x]

So there is not link

So there is no link (to the billionaires not willing to invest in GWS) oh what a surprise , despite your best attemps to find one and you FAILED.
In future when you make a claim on here just provide the link. If there isn't a link don't make a claim.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Axioms ? How about

Oh dear you tried a funny and failed, but I'm sure the education i have given you today possibly might be of help to you in future
Also and I'm serious here, i bear you no malice, but you do leave yourself open at times to ridicule.
Don't let you love of football blind you you to the fact that no sport is perfect and please don't believe some of the BS that comes out of AFL house at times. They would in all seriousness embarrass Joseph Goebbels at times

 

[RedV3x]

American dream: White House advisor considers taking over GWS

American dream: White House advisor considers taking over GWS

www.foxsports.com.au

Private ownership? American millionaires interested in bankrolling Giants

GWS chief executive Dave Matthews says private ownership is worth considering in the current AFL climate

www.afl.com.au

Greater Western America: Giants seek USA game

The Greater Western Sydney Giants and the AFL are exploring the novel concept of playing a game for premiership points in the United States.

www.theage.com.au

GWS Giants want AFL game in LA

Last year's beaten AFL grand finalists GWS hope to play a home-and-away match in California next year, according to a report.

7news.com.au

American investment gurus secretly put millions into GWS Giants

American bond traders Daniel Ivascyn and Marc Seidner, who are both executives of the global investment management firm Pimco, have become huge supports of the GWS Giants.

www.dailymail.co.uk

White House advisor interested in buying Giants

'Big hitters' already pouring millions into club

wwos.nine.com.au

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

GWS Giants want AFL game in LA

An AFL home-and-away season match involving GWS could be played in Los Angeles next year, according to a...

www.liverpoolchampion.com.au

The GWS Giants Are Frothing To Play A Legit AFL Game In The United States

The Giants are leading the charge to take a game to California.

www.pedestrian.tv

GWS Giants want AFL game in LA

An AFL home-and-away season match involving GWS could be played in Los Angeles next year, according to a...

www.canberratimes.com.au

Gee, only the first page results for google. You didn't try too hard Aussie-head-in-the-sand.

 

[Colonial]

It always amuses me that some of the supposedly most passionate Australian Rules fans are against the growth of the sport they supposedly love.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Isn't it funny when people are unable to simply look back a couple of pages to see the numerous links for the information they are requesting?

 

[RedV3x]

embarrass Joseph Goebbels at times

Big fan are you? This isn't the first time you've mentioned him.
I don't know any reason why anyone would go down that path and link it to a smiley emoticon.

 

[Aussie in exile]

American dream: White House advisor considers taking over GWS

American dream: White House advisor considers taking over GWS

www.foxsports.com.au

Private ownership? American millionaires interested in bankrolling Giants

GWS chief executive Dave Matthews says private ownership is worth considering in the current AFL climate

www.afl.com.au

Greater Western America: Giants seek USA game

The Greater Western Sydney Giants and the AFL are exploring the novel concept of playing a game for premiership points in the United States.

www.theage.com.au

GWS Giants want AFL game in LA

Last year's beaten AFL grand finalists GWS hope to play a home-and-away match in California next year, according to a report.

7news.com.au

American investment gurus secretly put millions into GWS Giants

American bond traders Daniel Ivascyn and Marc Seidner, who are both executives of the global investment management firm Pimco, have become huge supports of the GWS Giants.

www.dailymail.co.uk

White House advisor interested in buying Giants

'Big hitters' already pouring millions into club

wwos.nine.com.au

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

GWS Giants want AFL game in LA

An AFL home-and-away season match involving GWS could be played in Los Angeles next year, according to a...

www.liverpoolchampion.com.au

The GWS Giants Are Frothing To Play A Legit AFL Game In The United States

The Giants are leading the charge to take a game to California.

www.pedestrian.tv

GWS Giants want AFL game in LA

An AFL home-and-away season match involving GWS could be played in Los Angeles next year, according to a...

www.canberratimes.com.au

Gee, only the first page results for google. You didn't try too hard Aussie-head-in-the-sand.

They soon bailed out and that's even before they looked

American dream: White House advisor considers taking over GWS

American dream: White House advisor considers taking over GWS

www.foxsports.com.au

Private ownership? American millionaires interested in bankrolling Giants

GWS chief executive Dave Matthews says private ownership is worth considering in the current AFL climate

www.afl.com.au

Greater Western America: Giants seek USA game

The Greater Western Sydney Giants and the AFL are exploring the novel concept of playing a game for premiership points in the United States.

www.theage.com.au

GWS Giants want AFL game in LA

Last year's beaten AFL grand finalists GWS hope to play a home-and-away match in California next year, according to a report.

7news.com.au

American investment gurus secretly put millions into GWS Giants

American bond traders Daniel Ivascyn and Marc Seidner, who are both executives of the global investment management firm Pimco, have become huge supports of the GWS Giants.

www.dailymail.co.uk

White House advisor interested in buying Giants

'Big hitters' already pouring millions into club

wwos.nine.com.au

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

GWS Giants want AFL game in LA

An AFL home-and-away season match involving GWS could be played in Los Angeles next year, according to a...

www.liverpoolchampion.com.au

The GWS Giants Are Frothing To Play A Legit AFL Game In The United States

The Giants are leading the charge to take a game to California.

www.pedestrian.tv

GWS Giants want AFL game in LA

An AFL home-and-away season match involving GWS could be played in Los Angeles next year, according to a...

www.canberratimes.com.au

Gee, only the first page results for google. You didn't try too hard Aussie-head-in-the-sand.

But no links to the people themselves seriously buying GWS i note. Another fail

 

[Colonial]

Some people live in the real world. GWS fans don't

Your real world is a fishbowl, need to get out and about more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RedV3x]

It always amuses me that some of the supposedly most passionate Australian Rules fans are against the growth of the sport they supposedly love.

I think we've firmly established that a certain person is the opposite to a passionate Australian Rules Fans.
I think any person trying to align the AFL to Joseph Goebbels doesn't have the best interest of the game at heart.
I believe that any person trying to go down that path is unAustralian. Not even the worst rugby league fan is that bad.
Soccer fan ? Maybe, with the imminent closure of it's league.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Your real world is a fishbowl, need to get out and about more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No wrong your is. Wake up and smell the coffee.
$25 million in year to prop up a club and not even tread water is not good business.

 

[RedV3x]

But no links to the people themselves seriously buying GWS i note.

"The AFL could soon have one of its teams being privately owned, with a White House advisor reportedly interested in purchasing the GWS Giants.
Daniel Ivascyn and Marc Seidner are both executives at the global investment management firm Pimco and the pair, who have already contributed millions to the Giants, are understood to be interested in private ownership."

 

[Colonial]

No wrong your is. Wake up and smell the coffee.
$25 million in year to prop up a club and not even tread water is not good business.

And if we were in a traditional market and not growing the grassroots from the ground up you would probably be right.
We aren’t and instead are growing the game.

So Melbourne, north, dogs and the Saints should be booted? They get almost expansion level funding are small clubs with limited growth potential.

Edit. Before you say it there are 100’s of links in this thread showing said growth.

So it’s not 20mil in just to prop up the club.
All clubs get a distribution as well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RedV3x]

$25 million in year to prop up a club and not even tread water is not good business.

Where are your links?

 

[RedV3x]

And if we were in a traditional market and not growing the grassroots from the ground up you would probably be right.We aren’t and instead are growing the game.

That is an important aspect. The prospects for growth are much better than most clubs.
The investment has been made at time when the AFL could afford it and indeed help mitigate the football department explosions.
With football department cuts being imminent then GWS are potentially a lot better off.

So Melbourne, north, dogs and the Saints should be booted? They get almost expansion level funding are small clubs with limited growth potential.

The AFL is the 18 clubs and the AFL revenue is the total revenue that all clubs bring in.
The re-distribution of AFL funds is simply that - redistribution of the total revenue.
The AFL would like all clubs to be strong and competitive - an extremely difficult proposition.
The odds are with clubs outside of Melbourne. Clubs within Melbourne are basically restricted to market share.
GWS can appeal to millions of Sydney-siders whilst it is very hard for four Melbourne clubs to grow.
Melbourne clubs can extract a bit more support from their regions with onfield success or community programs etc
but it is almost impossible to garner support from outside their traditional areas of support.
It is imperative that the smaller Melbourne clubs establish external links.
These "smaller" Melbourne clubs are still big, still draw big attendances but they have to look towards their future.
In contrast, the future for GWS is boundless.

 

[jatz14]

I seriously doubt if there was any concrete proposals in the first place.
To buy any sports team where you have to inject $25 million a year just to tread water is not a good idea

Most of world soccer is funded on this principle.

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