A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

[madmug]

SMH R. Masters 20.4

RA may be trading whilst insolvent.

RA Chairman "McLean, with 3 new directors is confronted by ongoing solvency tests...".

Clock ticking towards rugby's doomsday

Rugby Australia will have to lodge audited accounts by the end of the month before World Rugby agrees to a bail-out... but even then, the portents remain bleak.

www.smh.com.au

RA has made cuts to players wages this year, which expects will deliver savings of 83%.

Roy just wants all those wide bottomed boys playing Thugby Loig.

 

[Colonial]

SMH R. Masters 20.4

RA may be trading whilst insolvent.

RA Chairman "McLean, with 3 new directors is confronted by ongoing solvency tests...".

Clock ticking towards rugby's doomsday

Rugby Australia will have to lodge audited accounts by the end of the month before World Rugby agrees to a bail-out... but even then, the portents remain bleak.

www.smh.com.au

RA has made cuts to players wages this year, which expects will deliver savings of 83%.

I’d have more faith in a Rugby reset than than a rugby league one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BringBackTorps]

Fox Sports 21.4

"RA is seeking emergency crisis talks with 11 disgruntled Wallabies captains who have called for a leadership overhaul at RA".

The unprecedented Open Letter states
"Our rural clubs, junior clubs, subdistricts & community clubs have been let down...".

‘Stand aside’: 11 fed-up Wallabies captains pen extraordinary letter to Rugby Australia

‘Stand aside’: 11 fed-up Wallabies captains pen extraordinary letter to Rugby Australia

www.foxsports.com.au

RA Auditors are unwilling to sign off on the Accounts. R. Masters, in post #2500 above, has suggested RA (which had net losses of $9.4 m in 2019) may now be insolvent.

 

[BringBackTorps]

1. The Age M. Gleeson 23.4

"...Peter Jackson said the drive to build unnecessary new, bigger, & more elaborate facilities in the AFL Arms Race would be a welcome casualty of the coronavirus. He said player wages, but also executive wages at the AFL & Clubs as well as coaches & allied industry incomes would all have to be recalibrated & reduced (my emphasis)".

Jackson said

"It is ultimately about the culture & environment (my emphases) you create, not the facilities you spend'.

Footy re-set: Clubs don't need big homes, says Peter Jackson

Former Essendon and Melbourne chief executive Peter Jackson gives his views in the latest in our series on what football should do in the new economic reality.

www.theage.com.au

These permanent slashing of costs is excellent news for the possibility of a 19th Tas. team c.2025- & a possible 20th team in Sydney some time after 2030.
The current expansion, & any new expansion, teams (& all existing smaller clubs), will all be MUCH more financially stable & viable; & be more competitive, on & off field, for the long term. It will cost FAR less to run a successful Club.


L. Matthews also predicts, & greatly supports, heavy, permanent cuts to Clubs' etc. running costs.

Play it forward: How Lethal thinks footy should change post-virus

Field 16 players a side, cut football department spend and get rid of VFL affiliate teams. These are Leigh Matthews' recommendations for the future of football.

www.theage.com.au

It has been widely mooted that Lists will be, gradually, reduced to c. 30 per team. Some also approve of Matthews' suggestion that team size should be reduced from 18-16 on the field, to reduce congestion. Such changes also make it easier to create a 3rd Sydney team.



2. Canberra Times L.Clark 21.4

Penrith NRL Deputy Chairman G. Alexander said

"I am a junior coach...& junior ruby league is struggling, but no one wants to admit it. They (NRL) say it is slightly increasing, but it's not, its decreasing".

It was time for Greenberg to go: Alexander

Penrith deputy chairman Greg Alexander says "it was time" for Todd Greenberg to go as NRL CEO, claiming...

www.canberratimes.com.au

The big drop-off is widespread, but mainly in male contact jnr RL is from U14-U18 (but jnr female contact GR RL is having strong growth).
In snr GR RL, Sydney's NS & ES has almost disappeared- & the inner WS has also had a great decline.

Western Sydney is the heartland of GR RL in Australia- but it is also in decline there. The Parramatta DJRL has had to be combined with the Canterbury/B. DJRL, from U14, due to lack of nos.

The NRL's long term decline in male contact comp. nos. in NSW, ACT, & Qld. has been disguised by the NRL, in its official regd. nos., counting the non-contact nos. ie tag/touch/Gala Days/community, & school activities.



3. Canberra Times C. Dutton 23.4

"RA boss R. Castle has resigned, adding another twist to the most turbulent period in the sport's history"

"...decline of Super Rugby. Most Australian rugby sides have struggled to gain momentum with results & fans over the past decade".

Castle falls: RA leader resigns after constant attacks

Rugby Australia leader Raelene Castle has quit her role, giving the sport another major headache as it fights...

www.canberratimes.com.au

 

[Tasmanian saint]

I’d have more faith in a Rugby reset than than a rugby league one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No disagree there rugby Australia are completely broke about to be trading insolvent soon have no tv deal while league are struggling there in know where near the position that rugby are

 

[Pippen94]

1. The Age M. Gleeson 23.4

"...Peter Jackson said the drive to build unnecessary new, bigger, & more elaborate facilities in the AFL Arms Race would be a welcome casualty of the coronavirus. He said player wages, but also executive wages at the AFL & Clubs as well as coaches & allied industry incomes would all have to be recalibrated & reduced (my emphasis)".

Jackson said

"It is ultimately about the culture & environment (my emphases) you create, not the facilities you spend'.

Footy re-set: Clubs don't need big homes, says Peter Jackson

Former Essendon and Melbourne chief executive Peter Jackson gives his views in the latest in our series on what football should do in the new economic reality.

www.theage.com.au

These permanent slashing of costs is excellent news for the possibility of a 19th Tas. team c.2025- & a possible 20th team in Sydney some time after 2030.
The current expansion, & any new expansion, teams (& all existing smaller clubs), will all be MUCH more financially stable & viable; & be more competitive, on & off field, for the long term. It will cost FAR less to run a successful Club.


L. Matthews also predicts, & greatly supports, heavy, permanent cuts to Clubs' etc. running costs.

Play it forward: How Lethal thinks footy should change post-virus

Field 16 players a side, cut football department spend and get rid of VFL affiliate teams. These are Leigh Matthews' recommendations for the future of football.

www.theage.com.au

It has been widely mooted that Lists will be, gradually, reduced to c. 30 per team. Some also approve of Matthews' suggestion that team size should be reduced from 18-16 on the field, to reduce congestion. Such changes also make it easier to create a 3rd Sydney team.



2. Canberra Times L.Clark 21.4

Penrith NRL Deputy Chairman G. Alexander said

"I am a junior coach...& junior ruby league is struggling, but no one wants to admit it. They (NRL) say it is slightly increasing, but it's not, its decreasing".

It was time for Greenberg to go: Alexander

Penrith deputy chairman Greg Alexander says "it was time" for Todd Greenberg to go as NRL CEO, claiming...

www.canberratimes.com.au

The big drop-off is widespread, but mainly in male contact jnr RL is from U14-U18 (but jnr female contact GR RL is having strong growth).
In snr GR RL, Sydney's NS & ES has almost disappeared- & the inner WS has also had a great decline.

Western Sydney is the heartland of GR RL in Australia- but it is also in decline there. The Parramatta DJRL has had to be combined with the Canterbury/B. DJRL, from U14, due to lack of nos.

The NRL's long term decline in male contact comp. nos. in NSW, ACT, & Qld. has been disguised by the NRL, in its official regd. nos., counting the non-contact nos. ie tag/touch/Gala Days/community, & school activities.



3. Canberra Times C. Dutton 23.4

"RA boss R. Castle has resigned, adding another twist to the most turbulent period in the sport's history"

"...decline of Super Rugby. Most Australian rugby sides have struggled to gain momentum with results & fans over the past decade".

Castle falls: RA leader resigns after constant attacks

Rugby Australia leader Raelene Castle has quit her role, giving the sport another major headache as it fights...

www.canberratimes.com.au

None of this relates to an extra team - you're just fantasizing

 

[BringBackTorps]

1. Channel 7 News T. Watson Sport segment. 23.4

Predictions from T. Browne that AFL Club Football Departments (currently $9.7m, & not including player wages )"could be cut by about $4.7m, almost 50%" per club, from 2021. This 50% cut is the highest prediction that has been mooted, AFAIK.

sportsindustry (@footyindustryAU) | Twitter

The latest Tweets from sportsindustry (@footyindustryAU): "News Wrap | Friday, May 8th | WA AFL teams miss out on home games early, India still plan on coming to Australia, Kayo subs take a 30% hit, RA solvency questions https://t.co/ZI3V1TYArR"

twitter.com

(Click on Sports Industry tweet 23.4, go to "Channel 7 Tom Browne").


Similarly, on the ABC TV Offsiders program 26.4, RFC coach D. Hardwick said Club Football Departments (not inc. player wage) could be permanently cut "by up to 40%" from 2021.


These FD caps will apply to all the 18 AFL clubs ie rich clubs won't be able to pay above it.
Great news for current expansion clubs viability & future competitiveness- & chances for new expansion clubs being created are greatly improved. It will cost far less to run a competitive AFL club.




2. SMH M.Knox 24.4

Following the sacking of RA CEO R. Castle, RU writer M. Knox gives RA, & the game of RU, one of the most scathing attacks on any Australian sport that I can ever recall.

These are some of his more gentle comments.

"Rugby was for years the sick man of Australian sport, but now it's just one that has been in the hospital ward the longest. It's been joined by a few mates...it might not make much difference who takes stewardship of the game's decline...".

Amateur hour returns as Castle crumbling sends rugby back to the past

The sooner everyone in rugby is back working for nothing, the more honest a game it will be. The day the CEO arrives, they are served up a big poo sandwich.

www.smh.com.au

 

[jatz14]

1. Channel 7 News T. Watson Sport segment. 23.4

Predictions from T. Browne that AFL Club Football Departments (currently $9.7m, & not including player wages )"could be cut by about $4.7m, almost 50%" per club, from 2021. This 50% cut is the highest prediction that has been mooted, AFAIK.

sportsindustry (@footyindustryAU) | Twitter

The latest Tweets from sportsindustry (@footyindustryAU): "News Wrap | Friday, May 8th | WA AFL teams miss out on home games early, India still plan on coming to Australia, Kayo subs take a 30% hit, RA solvency questions https://t.co/ZI3V1TYArR"

twitter.com

(Click on Sports Industry tweet 23.4, go to "Channel 7 Tom Browne").


Similarly, on the ABC TV Offsiders program 26.4, RFC coach D. Hardwick said Club Football Departments (not inc. player wage) could be permanently cut "by up to 40%" from 2021.


These FD caps will apply to all the 18 AFL clubs ie rich clubs won't be able to pay above it.
Great news for current expansion clubs viability & future competitiveness- & chances for new expansion clubs being created are greatly improved. It will cost far less to run a competitive AFL club.




2. SMH M.Knox 24.4

Following the sacking of RA CEO R. Castle, RU writer M. Knox gives RA, & the game of RU, one of the most scathing attacks on any Australian sport that I can ever recall.

These are some of his more gentle comments.

"Rugby was for years the sick man of Australian sport, but now it's just one that has been in the hospital ward the longest. It's been joined by a few mates...it might not make much difference who takes stewardship of the game's decline...".

Amateur hour returns as Castle crumbling sends rugby back to the past

The sooner everyone in rugby is back working for nothing, the more honest a game it will be. The day the CEO arrives, they are served up a big poo sandwich.

www.smh.com.au

If there isn't a permanent drop in income, and if the AFL doesn't drive itself deep into debt by taking a lot of it's line of credit, then these changes will not last long.

Sports leagues spend to their revenue, always. Even leagues where teams have owners with profit motives, few of the teams actually make money.

The changes your talking about could see teams like the Eagles making $10 mill + profit per year.

Why? It's a not for profit, despite what people think, there is nothing good about not for profit organisations sitting on millions of dollars of profit.

Clubs with big cash balances will want to turn that into a performance edge, and will find a way, and other clubs will follow.

One way will be facilities.

You think they are fancy now, wait until the Eagles have gone 3 years with costs artificially cut by $5 million a year, players will be chauffeured to the club in stretch limos.


On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

If there isn't a permanent drop in income, and if the AFL doesn't drive itself deep into debt by taking a lot of it's line of credit, then these changes will not last long.

Sports leagues spend to their revenue, always. Even leagues where teams have owners with profit motives, few of the teams actually make money.

The changes your talking about could see teams like the Eagles making $10 mill + profit per year.

Why? It's a not for profit, despite what people think, there is nothing good about not for profit organisations sitting on millions of dollars of profit.

Clubs with big cash balances will want to turn that into a performance edge, and will find a way, and other clubs will follow.

One way will be facilities.

You think they are fancy now, wait until the Eagles have gone 3 years with costs artificially cut by $5 million a year, players will be chauffeured to the club in stretch limos.


On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

I imagine they will have a soft cap at some stage with say a 100% tax and limitations on clubs to go over it (have to be turning a profit).
Not great for equality but smaller list sizes should help with that. Maybe non finals sides should get an extra list spot of something to also help with this.

 

[RedV3x]

despite what people think, there is nothing good about not for profit organisations sitting on millions of dollars of profit.

I disagree. Well, security for a start.It's insurance against a major events such as this.
The money could have been put to real use by supporting second tier organisations and grassroots.
Just imagine if the AFL hadn't invested in G.C. and G.W.S.- the situation would have been much much worse.
So let's funnel investment into two new additions to the AFL so that the AFL clubs don't waste revenue.

 

[jatz14]

I disagree. Well, security for a start.It's insurance against a major events such as this.
The money could have been put to real use by supporting second tier organisations and grassroots.
Just imagine if the AFL hadn't invested in G.C. and G.W.S.- the situation would have been much much worse.
So let's funnel investment into two new additions to the AFL so that the AFL clubs don't waste revenue.

But you cannot sit on enough cash to help in a situation like this. The AFL has taken a half billion dollar line of credit, are they supposed to build up that amount in cash, for a rainy day?

What they should have done, and will do in future I am sure, is take out insurance for events disrupting large parts of a season.

And as for helping the grass roots, if the AFL had been sitting on a couple of hundred million for the last decade, for a rainy day, its the grass roots that would have been screaming loudest. why are grass roots facilities so poor, when you have all that cash? Followed closely by government, which would have a point. Why should we invest in facilities, when you have all that cash?

Leagues spend to income, always.

 

[RedV3x]

But you cannot sit on enough cash to help in a situation like this.

Of course you can.

The AFL has taken a half billion dollar line of credit, are they supposed to build up that amount in cash, for a rainy day?

Investment - yes, cash no.

What they should have done, and will do in future I am sure, is take out insurance for events disrupting large parts of a season.

investment wins over insurance in the long term.

if the AFL had been sitting on a couple of hundred million for the last decade, for a rainy day, its the grass roots that would have been screaming loudest.

So ? What's your point. Grassroots and AFL would be both better off.

Why should we invest in facilities, when you have all that cash?

Cash? You'd never make an investment broker.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Of course you can.



Investment - yes, cash no.



investment wins over insurance in the long term.



So ? What's your point. Grassroots and AFL would be both better off.




Cash? You'd never make an investment broker.

Grassroots will always “need” more money, the AFL is the governing body therefore whenever they invest in anything other then grassroots people will be upset. They can’t just be seen to be hoarding money while certain areas of the sport are struggling.

 

[jatz14]

Of course you can.



Investment - yes, cash no.



investment wins over insurance in the long term.



So ? What's your point. Grassroots and AFL would be both better off.




Cash? You'd never make an investment broker.

• No, seriously, you cannot, as a not for profit, sit on that amount of cash. Its why none of them do it.
• Investment no, its a not for profit. If they are investing for profit, they risk their not for profit status. Why should the government give tax breaks to an organisation investing, and sitting on huge amounts of cash. Why should the government fork out for infrastructure?
• See above. the sports doing this the best are those that had pandemic insurance. There arent any just going to ride this out on investment income.
• Grass roots wouldn't be better off. The AFL sucking millions out of the sport to put aside for years, so they can support grass roots in 40 or 50 years when the next pandemic hits, isn't leaving grassroots better off.
• Exactly, investment brokers are for profit, which the AFL is not.

The EPL, with their untold billions, is in trouble. The clubs collectively owe 1 billion +. Not finishing the league could cost them over 700 million. And out of all the money the EPL makes, they do not have a cash reserve set aside to tide them through.

Know why?

Leagues spend to their income, always.

 

[RedV3x]

Grassroots will always “need” more money,

For sure.

the AFL is the governing body therefore whenever they invest in anything other then grassroots people will be upset.

Even players salaries and spiralling football department costs.

. They can’t just be seen to be hoarding money while certain areas of the sport are struggling.

Exactly. That's why the AFL (who have assumed the role) need to invest.
Investing is the opposite to hoarding. Investing is spending money wisely to produce some benefit.
AFL clubs have been spending money to increase their individual competitiveness that produces no nett benefit to the league.

 

[RedV3x]

No, seriously, you cannot, as a not for profit, sit on that amount of cash.

Seriously, did you ready my post - no cash.

Investment no, its a not for profit. If they are investing for profit, they risk their not for profit status.

AS I said, you'll never make an investment broker. You can "invest" in many things without making a profit but producing a benefit and has capital value.

the sports doing this the best are those that had pandemic insurance.

Yes, they were sensible. Sensible people could just have easily invested to the same effect.
Insurance companies run at a profit so an any entity can do better over the long term.

Grass roots wouldn't be better off.

That simply makes no sense whatsoever. If the AFL invested more in grassroots then obviously grassroots would be better off.

so they can support grass roots in 40 or 50 years when the next pandemic hits, isn't leaving grassroots better off.

If you forget about cash and making a profit and think about investment then there are many ways that investment in grassroots will soften any future problems that occur. Just one example. If the WAFL had decent lighting then the AFL could be playing at WAFL grounds now. If the WAFL had decent lighting then they could have more night games to avoid clashes with the AFL. The WAFL could run a summer competition and the AFLW would have more options.

The EPL, with their untold billions, is in trouble.

Why do you mention the EPL when it only serves to strengthen the argument for more investment and less football department spiral?

 

[LordLucifer]

As the person who started this thread, I'd like to thank the many people who have contributed to it thus far.

On the whole, it has all been constructive comment with a mixture of opposing views which has made it really interesting to read.

 

[big_e]

"You'll never make an investment broker" is one of the nicest compliments I've read on this forum.

 

[Rob]

• No, seriously, you cannot, as a not for profit, sit on that amount of cash. Its why none of them do it.

That's not entirely true, and you should know the exception. 1 AFL club has tens of millions in cash reserves.

I have to say though with all this cost cutting, you're going to be right about some clubs turning monster profits. I wouldn't expect the big clubs to cop much of a revenue decrease once everything is back to normal.

 

[RedV3x]

I have to say though with all this cost cutting, you're going to be right about some clubs turning monster profits. I wouldn't expect the big clubs to cop much of a revenue decrease once everything is back to normal.

Let's turn back the clock a bit and look at investment and the government's attitude to this "cash".
The WAFL and the WCE especially were extremely happy their position with Subiaco Oval from a financial p.o.v.
One popular (administration) option was in fact to develop Subiaco, to invest in Subiaco Oval.
The W.A. government saw the value in building Perth stadium because of the profits that WCE were making.
The WAFL were enticed into a shyte arrangement because it was good for football fans not because it was financially a good decision.
Similarly, Geelong stadium was upgraded because of the positive climate down there, again Brian Cook's influence.
Not so long ago the SANFL was enticed away from the stadium that it owned and had invested in to a stadium arrangement
that was financially shyte but again good for football fans.
Further back, the VFL/AFL owned their own stadium which they had invested in on the advice of the government and then forced
into a shyte stadium agreement but again good for football fans.
Somewhere in amongst all that the AFL was able to turn a soccer stadium into a useful purchase for Australian Football,
an investment that will probably anchor the AFL's future recovery.
Indeed, the Victorian government has seen the benefit of docklands Stadium is prepared to invest in the stadium
because it is successful.
Contrary to what jazz-crackers says government love entities that do make profits and are prepared to go into partnerships
with sporting bodies that are successful. That goes all the way down to local government where the usual formulae is one third
from each of state government, local government and the sporting body.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

For sure.



Even players salaries and spiralling football department costs.



Exactly. That's why the AFL (who have assumed the role) need to invest.
Investing is the opposite to hoarding. Investing is spending money wisely to produce some benefit.
AFL clubs have been spending money to increase their individual competitiveness that produces no nett benefit to the league.

I totally agree with this. most of the money is just going to pointless inflation of people on the gravy train. The players deserve their money as they put on the show. The rest add nothing to the game.
The problem is where do and how do you invest this extra money without causing more overheads which is a big part of the problem now?

What I do find funny is people who whinge about money going to GWS and GC. It’s almost like they don’t realise if it wasn’t going to them, under the current system it would just be blown of footy departments and higher avg player wages

 

[big_e]

• No, seriously, you cannot, as a not for profit, sit on that amount of cash. Its why none of them do it.
• Investment no, its a not for profit. If they are investing for profit, they risk their not for profit status. Why should the government give tax breaks to an organisation investing, and sitting on huge amounts of cash. Why should the government fork out for infrastructure?

Leagues spend to their income, always.

Actually there's heaps of criticism of NFPs sitting on truckloads of cash. The Red Cross in Australia has had more than $200m in cash for years, and they and others copped it around the time of the bushfires.

And NFP status is more to do with ensuring members cannot personally benefit rather than engaging in profit-making activities. Specifically, "'The assets and income of the organisation shall be applied solely to further its objects and no portion shall be distributed directly or indirectly to the members of the organisation except as genuine compensation for services rendered or expenses incurred on behalf of the organisation."

And league spend their income because they can.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Actually there's heaps of criticism of NFPs sitting on truckloads of cash. The Red Cross in Australia has had more than $200m in cash for years, and they and others copped it around the time of the bushfires.

And NFP status is more to do with ensuring members cannot personally benefit rather than engaging in profit-making activities. Specifically, "'The assets and income of the organisation shall be applied solely to further its objects and no portion shall be distributed directly or indirectly to the members of the organisation except as genuine compensation for services rendered or expenses incurred on behalf of the organisation."

And league spend their income because they can.

And it’s easier to ask for government funding when you’re not sitting on hundreds of millions

 

[RedV3x]

And it’s easier to ask for government funding when you’re not sitting on hundreds of millions.

1. If you have "hundreds of millions" then there is obviously no need to ask for assistance from the government.
2. If you have "hundreds of millions" then it is much easier for the government to partner you because you are considered a "winner".
3. If you are considered a "loser" (cannot make a profit) then why should the government bother?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

1. If you have "hundreds of millions" then there is obviously no need to ask for assistance from the government.
2. If you have "hundreds of millions" then it is much easier for the government to partner you because you are considered a "winner".
3. If you are considered a "loser" (cannot make a profit) then why should the government bother?

Because you can have both. Spend your money then get government handouts, rather then just spending your own money more conservatively.

Profit means nothing, revenue is key. My local club can make a profit.