A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

[Pippen94]

This again makes the healthy position and growth of GWS even more meritorious - GWS is doing it without the support of pokies.
Yes, leagues club did produce massive income for NSWRL clubs - they underwrote the position of the NRL.
But three points.
1. Few AFL clubs are associated with gambling.
2. Those few AFL clubs associated with gambling are trying to now distance themselves from gambling.
3. The change in NSW gambling legislation (Pokie tax) has seen a wide-spread malaise in the leagues club across the board
giving rise to yet another problem for NRL clubs to face.

Gws is entirely dependent on afl as stated in annual report.

 

[RedV3x]

They might have more members from those areas (because they have more money), but I reckon Joondalup and the surrounding areas would be stronger Eagles than anywhere else in Perth.

Good point. They were probably "first in" and Subiaco became a closed shop locking out the new Northern families.

 

[Pippen94]

This again makes the healthy position and growth of GWS even more meritorious - GWS is doing it without the support of pokies.
Yes, leagues club did produce massive income for NSWRL clubs - they underwrote the position of the NRL.
But three points.
1. Few AFL clubs are associated with gambling.
2. Those few AFL clubs associated with gambling are trying to now distance themselves from gambling.
3. The change in NSW gambling legislation (Pokie tax) has seen a wide-spread malaise in the leagues club across the board
giving rise to yet another problem for NRL clubs to face.

Regarding pokies in afl

AFL clubs fill boots with pokies cash, as losses hit $2.7bn

AFL clubs reaped millions of dollars from poker machines last year, as pokies losses in Victorian pubs and clubs swelled to $2.7 billion - the second highest amount on record.

www.google.com

 

[Pippen94]

A third team in Sydney will be viable at some stage, if you followed the growth of the game in the last 10 years it is increasingly moving out westward, one of the reasons is the inner west has been increasingly populated by newer families that cant get into the Eastern Suburbs, you can see over a period of years the numbers increasing at junior club level.

Population in greater western Sydney larger, younger & growing faster. The supposed growth you boast of is everywhere but.

 

[RedV3x]

Gws is entirely dependent on afl as stated in annual report.

If that were the case why would GWS charge admittance if GWS is "entirely dependent on afl".
You do know the meaning of "entirely" don't you?

Well where's the link so we can all discuss it.
Can you point to GWS's share of the media deal that they generated along with the Suns.
Does it have an accounting statement for AFL sales in NSW?
How many footballs and guernseys were sold in NSW?

 

[RedV3x]

Population in greater western Sydney larger, younger & growing faster. The supposed growth you boast of is everywhere but.

Are you saying there is greater growth inside or outside of GWS?

 

[BringBackTorps]

...when looking at the viability of another club surely a lot of emphasis has to also be put on getting people to turn up to games in healthy numbers and buying memberships

You have become a broken record.

You are again conveniently ignoring these 6 facts (which others have mentioned to you).

1. GWS only started in 2012, in WS- an area that was virtually barren for AF. Prior to its creation, crowds & memberships for GWS were zero in WS
You ignore this.

2. For the very old Melb. clubs (some c. 160 years old- others only c.120 years old!), you also conveniently ignore, in your constant diatribes, their average home ground crowds are about half their total memberships. Therefore, GWS average home crowd of c. 12,000 is comparable, with its 2019 membership of 30,000+.
You ignore this.

3. Also, Melb. clubs have the huge advantage of having many home games against another Melb. based team- which, obviously, the visiting fans will considerably boost the croowd averages.
GWS does not have this huge advantage of derby games (except for the Swans) for its home games.
You ignore this.

4. GWS plays home games in 2 cities- thus splitting its supporter base, & reducing crowd nos.
You ignore this.

5. Swans memberships have actually increased since GWS began in 2012, despite Swan's poor record recently. There has been a net increase in AFL crowds & memberships since GWS started. A major achievement for AF in Sydney.
You ignore this.

6. GWS 30,000+ membership in 2019 is probably the second/third highest in Sydney of any code- & RL & RU have been very strong in Sydney for 110 & 130 years respectively.
You ignore this.

With these 6 factors, GWS achieving a home crowd average of 12,000, or 40% (12k/30k) can be considered a great success for GWS in particular, & AF in general, in Sydney.
NRL legend, & expert NRL commentator (who is also an expert on GR RL in WS) has said on WWOS in Sept. 2019 "GWS will become a juggernaut".
He obviously understands, & appreciates the ramifications, of GWS many achievements- far better than any anonymous person on the internet.

When Tasmania gets its own team c. 2025 (which is very likely), its home games will occur in Hobart & Launceston (AF heartland).
Its average home crowds will be much less than its likely membership (which the AFL has set a requirement of 50,000).

Following your GWS logic, the Tasmanian team could be trolled for its "poor crowds"?.

 

[RedV3x]

Regarding pokies in afl

Yes, that re-inforces my point that clubs outside of Victoria are doing it better without the need of gambling assistance.
Originally the Swans wanted to build facilities adjacent to the SCG, but the NRL led trust knocked them back.
In the very long term this probably has been a good result for the Swans
but club facilities at the SCG would be a great bonus now.

 

[Pippen94]

If that were the case why would GWS charge admittance if GWS is "entirely dependent on afl".
You do know the meaning of "entirely" don't you?

Well where's the link so we can all discuss it.
Can you point to GWS's share of the media deal that they generated along with the Suns.
Does it have an accounting statement for AFL sales in NSW?
How many footballs and guernseys were sold in NSW?

As in they wouldn't exist without afl

Giants given $2.5 million in AFL loans last year on top of $23m grant

The expansion club has laid bare its financial plight, confirming it will also receive almost $48 million in AFL grants over the next two years.

www.theage.com.au

I've mentioned too many times that club spends more on membership than it receives - nobody willing to take that one up.
Don't think club products are flying out of stores either

 

[Kwality]

Gws is entirely dependent on afl as stated in annual report.

As it should be when a code expands BUT soccer has seen big dollars for A-League franchises.

Does not make either wrong, despite my preference. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[Carringbush2010]

A third team in Sydney will be viable at some stage, if you followed the growth of the game in the last 10 years it is increasingly moving out westward, one of the reasons is the inner west has been increasingly populated by newer families that cant get into the Eastern Suburbs, you can see over a period of years the numbers increasing at junior club level.

Maybe.

South Melbourne relocated to Sydney in 1980, in that 40 years syd is still rl heartland at least on face value. Sure some will say 'yeh but syd has most fans' and the majority of those fans are more invested in their rl team and even more so in nsw soo. They're syd fans not af fans, will that change in a generations time? Time will tell, in any case BEFORE we can have a conversation about a 3rd syd team it would need to be viable to begin with. That means a ready and sustainable fan base.

Until then it's a moot conversation.

 

[RedV3x]

They're syd fans not af fans,

That makes absolutely no sense at all.
Australian Football is growing significantly in Sydney and now there are two AFL teams in Sydney.
It matters little what other sports are doing but it matters what the AFL are doing.
If there are lessons to be made then the lessons are that for expansion you need investment and a long-term view.
That is true of almost every business.

 

[Carringbush2010]

You have become a broken record.

You are again conveniently ignoring these 6 facts (which others have mentioned to you).

1. GWS only started in 2012, in WS- an area that was virtually barren for AF. Prior to its creation, crowds & memberships for GWS were zero in WS
You ignore this.

2. For the very old Melb. clubs (some c. 160 years old- others only c.120 years old!), you also conveniently ignore, in your constant diatribes, their average home ground crowds are about half their total memberships. Therefore, GWS average home crowd of c. 12,000 is comparable, with its 2019 membership of 30,000+.
You ignore this.

3. Also, Melb. clubs have the huge advantage of having many home games against another Melb. based team- which, obviously, the visiting fans will considerably boost the croowd averages.
GWS does not have this huge advantage of derby games (except for the Swans) for its home games.
You ignore this.

4. GWS plays home games in 2 cities- thus splitting its supporter base, & reducing crowd nos.
You ignore this.

5. Swans memberships have actually increased since GWS began in 2012, despite Swan's poor record recently. There has been a net increase in AFL crowds & memberships since GWS started. A major achievement for AF in Sydney.
You ignore this.

6. GWS 30,000+ membership in 2019 is probably the second/third highest in Sydney of any code- & RL & RU have been very strong in Sydney for 110 & 130 years respectively.
You ignore this.

With these 6 factors, GWS achieving a home crowd average of 12,000, or 40% (12k/30k) can be considered a great success for GWS in particular, & AF in general, in Sydney.
NRL legend, & expert NRL commentator (who is also an expert on GR RL in WS) has said on WWOS in Sept. 2019 "GWS will become a juggernaut".
He obviously understands, & appreciates the ramifications, of GWS many achievements- far better than any anonymous person on the internet.

When Tasmania gets its own team c. 2025 (which is very likely), its home games will occur in Hobart & Launceston (AF heartland).
Its average home crowds will be much less than its likely membership (which the AFL has set a requirement of 50,000).

Following your GWS logic, the Tasmanian team could be trolled for its "poor crowds"?.

As you are becoming a broken record, it's all gws, participation rates, population numbers blah blah blah over and over all the while not justifying a 3rd syd club.

Boil it down and dissect it all you want but right now a 3rd syd club is not viable. May never be, we're probably the only ones actually talking about it. You don't hear HQ talking about a 3rd syd club.

This whole thread is on the back of an article about goal posts in nsw primary schools and then a few come out of the woodwork 'a 3rd club in syd' like an over excited child.

All the while forgetting there's a ready made sustainable fan base in the waiting in Tas, HQ are actually talking about that.

BEFORE we should even begin talkin about a 3rd syd club let's look at more logical areas for afl clubs, let's see how clubs north of the murray fare for the next generation or two.

 

[Carringbush2010]

That makes absolutely no sense at all.
Australian Football is growing significantly in Sydney and now there are two AFL teams in Sydney.
It matters little what other sports are doing but it matters what the AFL are doing.
If there are lessons to be made then the lessons are that for expansion you need investment and a long-term view.
That is true of almost every business.

There are two teams in syd with fan bases that have little interest in af, they're team fans not af fans. I agree that it is a long long haul, a 3rd syd club or even talking about it IS fanciful.

Boil it down and dissect all you will but you can't escape that.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Can you name an independent site that reports figures that are neither official figures, or flat out guesses?

Sites that don't ingratiate themselves to certain sports and seek and ye will find

 

[Aussie in exile]

"The GWS have had a larger average crowd than any NRL cub or a-league club since inception."

Now, back on topic I favour Newcastle as an interesting project. The 20th team.
There were some good points raised earlier.

Have ever been to Newcastle?

 

[RedV3x]

There are two teams in syd with fan bases that have little interest in af

There is no reasonable or logical basis for saying this.

Not only is there a decent following for Australian Football in Sydney, a growing appreciation for Australian Football, a growing participation for Australian Football but there are growing benefits of Australian Football as seen in the production of draftees, growth of competitions, growth in merchandising and sponsorship etc etc.

 

[The_Wookie]

Sites that don't ingratiate themselves to certain sports and seek and ye will find

In other words, you dont have any links to said independent information, which comes from christ knows where.

 

[The_Wookie]

As in they wouldn't exist without afl

and without the NRL 4 clubs would have gone to the wall in recent years. So what? Without the FFA, several A-league clubs would have been toast. Whats your point?

I've mentioned too many times that club spends more on membership than it receives - nobody willing to take that one up.

Its not exactly a revelation. Fairly new club invests in fairly hostile market. news at 11. Anyone not trolling from another code, or pushing a tasmanian team around here gets this.

 

[Aussie in exile]

In other words, you dont have any links to said independent information, which comes from christ knows where.

You got sucked into believing this without reading this. Read the whole article Wookie.
Which again proves my point

Junior League - Calgary Kangaroos - GameDay

Junior League - Calgary Kangaroos - GameDay, fixtures, results, ladders, statistics, news and events for the Calgary Kangaroos Australian Football Club, on GameDay, the Home of Grassroots Sport

websites.sportstg.com

 

[abcde12345]

Regarding pokies in afl

AFL clubs fill boots with pokies cash, as losses hit $2.7bn

AFL clubs reaped millions of dollars from poker machines last year, as pokies losses in Victorian pubs and clubs swelled to $2.7 billion - the second highest amount on record.

www.google.com

They should do a similar story on the NRL clubs to that. Considering in the same FY the Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs club alone pulled in $1m less than all the Victorian AFL clubs combined ($75.8m vs $76.8m respectively) from pokies (link).

There are two teams in syd with fan bases that have little interest in af, they're team fans not af fans.

Most fans in the game are team fans rather than AF fans, regardless of the state they're from. Similarly, just because someone follows more than one sport does not mean they are a "better" or "worse" fan than anyone else. I guarantee you that most Victorian football fans have a team in at least one of the Big Bash, NBA, EPL etc.

Even if AFL was their 2nd team, they are still purchasing tickets to attend the game, at an average rate higher than half the Victorian teams, despite the fact last season they finished bottom 4, and they are also attendance capped due to the smaller stadium more significantly than the Victorian team counterparts. If they're attending games when the team is finishing in the bottom four, why does it matter if they are also passionate about the NRL or soccer?

 

[RedV3x]

View attachment 811760

Which again proves my point

What is the point that you are trying to about AFL Canada?

 

[Carringbush2010]

Most fans in the game are team fans rather than AF fans, regardless of the state they're from

WRONG! footy fans in heartland ARE mad footy fans, team fans yes but footy fans also. Team fans in rl states are by and large NOT af fans, they're rl fans.

As for the rest of your post, none of that validates a 3rd syd team, it's not viable, maybe (may!) one day until then the discussion is moot.

 

[Aussie in exile]

What is the point that you are trying to about AFL Canada?

Read the 2nd article and its clear its less than minuscule.
Not the BS that's pump out at times.

 

[Carringbush2010]

There is no reasonable or logical basis for saying this.

Not only is there a decent following for Australian Football in Sydney, a growing appreciation for Australian Football, a growing participation for Australian Football but there are growing benefits of Australian Football as seen in the production of draftees, growth of competitions, growth in merchandising and sponsorship etc etc.

Agree it's growing but it's not there yet, it does not validate a 3rd syd team.