Academy v Father-Sons

[swansfan51]

I wonder how quickly the swans posters would change their opinion in a hypothetical situation that Micky O's boy lives in Tasmania and then qualifies for north's academy, where he's ours to ingrain with everything north for years and make connections with other boys going to north.

I imagine fairly filthy about that.

If our club was too shit to persuade Micky O's son to nominate us then yeah, we don't deserve him. And you won't deserve Blakey if he doesn't want to play for you.

 

[RUNVS]

and all this is premature as Blakey could do a Connor Ballenden and start out a year before the draft as a top 5 contender but near the draft he could fall outside the top 20 for all we know. Plenty of players do that all the time.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

If Blakey chose North would John have to leave the Swans? I don't think he could be trusted.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

If Blakey chose North would John have to leave the Swans? I don't think he could be trusted.

I thought he was close to on the outer when the Swans were going through a toughish period during the early rounds, but that just might have been Swans posters venting.

 

[Dangerousfield]

Swans posters would know exactly what this thread is about.

Next year is a situation in which Blakey's son qualifies for Brisbane and North through father connections and also Sydney through the academy system.

The question I pose is, shouldn't the afl change the academy eligibility of father-sons?

The academies were designed to attract non-afl players to the afl in non-traditional football states, not help sides like Sydney gain an unfair advantage with a player that was always going to play afl, through the academy system through a rather stupid eligibility oversight.

About time a non North or Swans poster weighed in with a neutral view although I am a closet North supporter from pre Crows days.

Let's start with the bolded bit, aren't North going to draft a top 5 player next year out of Tasmania via their Next Gen Academy, a player they have in reality done very little to develop, who is in a traditional footy state and was already well entrenched playing AFL BEFORE North appeared on the scene? I'd say that is helping North gain an unfair advantage!

What seems to have lost here is that in every case the player, in this case Nick Blakey, has to agree to be F/S, the club can't nominate him without his permission. So Young Blakey gets to choose which option he'd like to take.

Blakey is in a non traditional state where junior development is sparse unless you are in one of the academy programs. These are programs funded wholly by the northern clubs whereas our southern Next Gen academies are funded in the main by the AFL. So if Blakey was not going to be eligible for the Swans, they could have (unlikely) not put him in their academy and he would have been left in the clutches of some very amateur local club which would not have developed him anything like he's got at the Swans.

Blakey may well choose the Swans but he could also choose to move away from friends and family and join North to help with their rebuild. I expect North to finish bottom two next year meaning they may be able to choose a player before their Tasmanian freebee is bid on if he's bid on top 10 then they will burn all their remaining 2018 picks to claim him. If they had Blakey nominate them and wanted to claim him it would burn their 2019 first pick. Just saying ...

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

About time a non North or Swans poster weighed in with a neutral view although I am a closet North supporter from pre Crows days.

Let's start with the bolded bit, aren't North going to draft a top 5 player next year out of Tasmania via their Next Gen Academy, a player they have in reality done very little to develop, who is in a traditional footy state and was already well entrenched playing AFL BEFORE North appeared on the scene? I'd say that is helping North gain an unfair advantage!

What seems to have lost here is that in every case the player, in this case Nick Blakey, has to agree to be F/S, the club can't nominate him without his permission. So Young Blakey gets to choose which option he'd like to take.

Blakey is in a non traditional state where junior development is sparse unless you are in one of the academy programs. These are programs funded wholly by the northern clubs whereas our southern Next Gen academies are funded in the main by the AFL. So if Blakey was not going to be eligible for the Swans, they could have (unlikely) not put him in their academy and he would have been left in the clutches of some very amateur local club which would not have developed him anything like he's got at the Swans.

Blakey may well choose the Swans but he could also choose to move away from friends and family and join North to help with their rebuild. I expect North to finish bottom two next year meaning they may be able to choose a player before their Tasmanian freebee is bid on if he's bid on top 10 then they will burn all their remaining 2018 picks to claim him. If they had Blakey nominate them and wanted to claim him it would burn their 2019 first pick. Just saying ...

I was waiting for someone to bring up Tarryn Thomas. I'm happy to miss out on Tarryn if it promotes a better system.

As it stands, north is looking to accur two firsts (via trading a future first) to cover Thomas and potentially Blakey for the points and due to the sheer quality of the draft.

The academy isn't the bees knees of development. Plenty of kids got adequate enough development in non-footy states long before the academy system.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

So now North are going to miss out on a father-son? Can't take a trick.

 

[Dangerousfield]

So now North are going to miss out on a father-son? Can't take a trick.

Haven't missed out on him yet.

I just find it amusing that a North poster can prattle on about the unfairness of the northern academies when they have been gifted a top 5 pick in Tarryn Thomas in the very same draft this big bad inequity MIGHT play it's hand with Nick Blakey.

Glasshouses, stones ....

And what about your other F/S, is it Scott & Crocker? where will the points come from to land those guys as well as Thomas & Blakey?

 

[RUNVS]

Haven't missed out on him yet.

I just find it amusing that a North poster can prattle on about the unfairness of the northern academies when they have been gifted a top 5 pick in Tarryn Thomas in the very same draft this big bad inequity MIGHT play it's hand with Nick Blakey.

Glasshouses, stones ....

It would be a lot of points if true.

Say North finish 17th and they take the second best player in the competition.

They then need to match a bid at pick 5 for the Tasmanian, meaning they need about 1500 points.

Problem is that they only have pick 19, pick 37 and pick 55 to do it and all those picks combined is about 1600 points. So if they get this Tasmanian guy they are going to burn through almost all their points in one hit. They won't be able to afford bidding on Blakey at pick 10 (or wherever Blakey ends up going).

 

[briztoon]

Coaching, sure, but he never played with them. History> Location.


I'll give you a scenario, if Wayne Carey had a 16 year old son and worked for the Sydney swans for a year, the swans would bring on said son to their academy and they can pinch him via the academy system, due to points system and academy system ingraining said son with everything positive about the swans. Does that sound like a good system to you?

Not possible as that is against the rules of the academies. Kids have to be in the academy system for a set number of years (I believe it is 5 years) to qualify as an academy selection.

An example, Elliot Himmelberg was in the GWS academy up until 2015, when his parents moved to Brisbane, and he joined the Lions academy for his final year in 2016. But because he had only been in Brisbane's academy for one year, and had left GWS's academy, the AFL ruled him ineligible as an academy selection, and he was drafted by Adelaide last year.

His brother, Harrison Himmelberg was drafted in 2015 to GWS as an academy selection. Quite frankly Elliot should have been allowed to be nominated as a GWS academy kid after the years they put in to developing him, only for his parents to move the family interstate for work.

North do not own all the children of their former players. Sydney does not own all kids who go through the academy. These kids have the choice on who they wish to nominate for - yes that seems extremely fair.

Blakey has the option of three clubs OR he can choose to go into the draft. It's purely up to him - this seems extremely fair

Not quite true. If Blakey doesn't nominate North or Brisbane as a father son prospect, then Sydney will nominate him as an academy prospect. Yes Blakey will be choosing to stay in Sydney, but that's not how it works for the majority of academy kids. In regards to the academies, it's the club that nominates the player/s. The player has no say if he wishes to join the open draft pool.

Lol, that has got to be the stupidest point made on this board. I'm sure Carey felt very homesick being away from Wagga, borderline moronic statement on your part. Reality is, north and many clubs manage to overcome the issues of homesickness of interstate players, with north having a lot of WA, QLD and SA boys. I'm not saying it wouldn't happen, just very unlikely. I know it's hard for GWS, Brisbane and gc to overcome homesickness, not so much an issue for established Victorian clubs.

Mate you have nfi how fans of non VFL clubs feel in regards to the issue of home sickness and kids deserting non VFL clubs to go home. You want people to understand your whinge about losing a father son prospect because your club is in sh!t hole of a situation, but you go and dismiss another fans whinge about a very real issue hurting other clubs because it's a non issue to you. Quite frankly you can gagf with that attitude.

The idea of academies being equal in weight to father-sons just doesn't sit comfortably with me. The romance of the father-son idea is something pretty great and that fans of all clubs (except the 'franchises' but who cares about them anyway) can get around. Its also close to completely fair across the AFL. Isn't the point of academies to bring through kids who wouldn't otherwise get into the sport? Well I think your father playing in 2 premierships for North and being 11th on the all-time games list probably puts you outside of this category, and it just becomes an unfair advantage to Sydney who happen to be where his dad is now coaching. Plus it creates a difficult scenario, where interstate clubs could potentially exploit the fathers of talented juniors by bringing them onboard as coaches for long enough that they qualify.

The question is this: do fans outside of the Blakey/North/Brisb/Sydney situation really want to see Nathan Buckley's kids playing for Gold Coast? James Hird's kids playing for GWS? I reckon the AFL should step in and say that father son takes precedence over their academies, and kids are only eligible for the academy if not nominated as a father son.

Tell you what, Lions fans can't wait to get Luke Hodge's kids in to our academy. His eldest boy turns 13 next year, which makes him the exact right age to bring in to our academy. 5 years later, and we go ourselves a future 300 gamer star recruit.

It's a pretty rare situation but I can see the OP's point

The counter argument is that the potential F/S shouldn't have to miss out on a spot in the academy (and the opportunity to develop his game) on the basis that me may be a F/S pick in the future

So rare the OP has yet to bring up Bailey Scott who is currently a member of the Gold Coast Suns academy and is also eligible to North Melbourne or Geelong as a father son prospect next year. But Bailey Scott is not rated as highly as Nick Blakey, so the OP could care less if he chooses to stay at the Suns as an academy kid.

So in theory, clubs can promise an almost immeadiate extension on higher coin for the years after the initial two years. I wonder how many clubs have done that over the years.

Gold Coast Suns did that this year signing their top four 2016 draftees to two year extensions beyond their initial contracts during the preseason. Probably helped that all four kids had the same management.

and all this is premature as Blakey could do a Connor Ballenden and start out a year before the draft as a top 5 contender but near the draft he could fall outside the top 20 for all we know. Plenty of players do that all the time.

Yup, and Jacob Allison did it the year before for us, going from an under age All Australian with big wraps and possible top 10 draftee, to falling outside the top 50. We manage our elite academy kids well in their top age year.

 

[Rack Watts]

Blakey should be a Roo, his father was an underrated player, so weird now, remembering player's dads. I've crossed an age barrier.

 

[Rack Watts]

I just find it amusing that a North poster can prattle on about the unfairness of the northern academies when they have been gifted a top 5 pick in Tarryn Thomas in the very same draft this big bad inequity MIGHT play it's hand with Nick Blakey.

What? Is Tarryn Thomas going to North. Errrr that's ****ed, that kid is an out and out gun!

 

[LukeParkerno1]

What? Is Tarryn Thomas going to North. Errrr that's ******, that kid is an out and out gun!

Next Gen Academy. Yes going to North.

 

[Deccas]

In this thread:

North Supporters want Blakey.
Sydney supporters want Blakey.

Both supporter groups are conflicted and thus their arguments are void.

Solution: Get rid of F/S and the draft. Return back to the zone days.

And watch footy die outside of traditional footy states.

On CPH1607 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[telsor]

Swans posters would know exactly what this thread is about.

Next year is a situation in which Blakey's son qualifies for Brisbane and North through father connections and also Sydney through the academy system.

The question I pose is, shouldn't the afl change the academy eligibility of father-sons?

The academies were designed to attract non-afl players to the afl in non-traditional football states, not help sides like Sydney gain an unfair advantage with a player that was always going to play afl, through the academy system through a rather stupid eligibility oversight.

2 sections bolded. Officially, the reason for the academies is the first. Unofficially....the evidence seems to suggest the second is more what they're aiming at.


Still think the solution is to reduce the discount depending on how many players a club gets. If you're taking 2 or 3 every year, then you get no discount, but still get to 'jump' your pick up to secure the player. If you only get one player every 10 years, you get the full 20% (could even argue for more).

 

[telsor]

And watch footy die outside of traditional footy states.

On CPH1607 using BigFooty.com mobile app

We've been bankrolling it for over 30 years...If it can't stand up by now, when should we admit the northern experiment has failed and pull the plug?

 

[Snake_Baker]

Next Gen Academy. Yes going to North.

His old man didn't play for Sydney.

The Blakey scenario is an out & out farce.

It's basically another form of COLA.

 

[dlanod]

We've been bankrolling it for over 30 years...If it can't stand up by now, when should we admit the northern experiment has failed and pull the plug?

Well that's bullshit unless you don't understand of how the main source of income into the AFL, the television rights, work.

 

[telsor]

Well that's bullshit unless you don't understand of how the main source of income into the AFL, the television rights, work.

Indeed.

Some people here seem to hold the delusional belief that the networks and their advertisers will happily pay to be forced to broadcast hours of content that draws awful ratings into some of their biggest markets just because it means they're 'national'.

Personally, I doubt the network bosses and their advertisers are all run by morons who are so easily sucked in.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

His old man didn't play for Sydney.

The Blakey scenario is an out & out farce.

It's basically another form of COLA.

Meh, not as is of the Tarryn Thomas one is any better! At least we've developed Blakely for years.

We will pay market value for Blakely for crying out loud.

 

[LeverPuller]

I was waiting for someone to bring up Tarryn Thomas. I'm happy to miss out on Tarryn if it promotes a better system.

As it stands, north is looking to accur two firsts (via trading a future first) to cover Thomas and potentially Blakey for the points and due to the sheer quality of the draft.

The academy isn't the bees knees of development. Plenty of kids got adequate enough development in non-footy states long before the academy system.

"Plenty of kids get adequate development"

Not one non-academy kid from NSW or QLD has gone top 10 in the last 5 years. Most of these kids won't get a look in because the systems just aren't rated. Look at Zorko - noone can deny the talent, but it took until the 2011 QLD zone selection for him to get picked up at the age of 22 after plying his trade in the NEAFL. Saying they get adequate development is disingenuous.

 

[irish]

I read an article earlier in the year indicating he was favouring Brisbane , be interesting how it turns out. Not many kids get a chance to play for three clubs

 

[Caj]

Blakey should be a Roo, his father was an underrated player, so weird now, remembering player's dads. I've crossed an age barrier.

Why shouldn't he be a Lion?

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Why shouldn't he be a Lion?

A few posters have suggested his major preference is sydney, followed by north and then Brisbane.

Good on Brisbane if they get him and fair enough too.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Meh, not as is of the Tarryn Thomas one is any better! At least we've developed Blakely for years.

This is not the point. The father son rule was brought in to reinforce cultural ties at football clubs.

I see there's a couple of kids from Hobart named Jake & Josh Cresswell playing in the North Tasmanian Academy.

Do Sydney fans have any issues with them ending up as North players?

Should North just give Daryn some type of role to boot it home?

We will pay market value for Thomas for crying out loud.

Yeah, and I'll swap him right now for Heeney & Mills.

Fair dinkum, talk about myopic!