AD is correct

[Tas]

Correct, but Brennan refused to sign a contract with us, thus forcing our hand. It was trade him to Gold Coast or get nothing.




I don't think any of us were smug about it. Just relieved that we managed to extract something positive from a shitty situation where we had a gun to our head.



Your angst regarding this issue is acknowledged, but isn't really relevant to the thread topic. If you are trying to provide a counterpoint to my lack of sorrow regarding the prospect of Melbourne losing Scully, you are taking a seriously big detour.

Lets be realistic, the issue with Brennan was how much he was getting paid or how much Brisbane could afford to pay. The fault for him leaving was Grubby's who mismanaged the contracts for your mob.

Brisbane ended up getting a pretty good compensation for Brennan. It is not remotely in the ballpark of having to cop a compensation offer.

 

[greenred]

Meh, if Scully walks for the money then so be it. The real issue is compensation. The OP raises cases like Jeff White but Freo received pick 3 and 20 in return, as well as pick 2 in 1999. If Melbourne had compensation like that I hazard a guess that our supporters wouldn't be too devestated.

That all being said, from what i've been told, i'm fairly certain he will stay. If he does leave, he is one incredibly deceitful individual who has lied uncontrollably.

Didn't Bucks say to Brisbane before they drafted him that he was going to head back to Victoria after his first year?

I can't understand why supporters are complaining so much. The clubs agreed to the compensation. They've had plenty of time to prepare and make sure players are signed up so that they don't have these type of situations. If Melbourne didn't lock Scully away before GWS could get into him then they are to blame.

 

[MaddAdam]

The fact is that Buckly was drafted by Brisbane who signed him to a 1 year contract. At its expiration, he was then traded to Collingwood. No AFL rules were broken. North had attempted to break them with its illegal, unenforcable contract - but failed. Carry on.

According to Neville Stibbard quoted in the Herald Sun in 2009:

Famously, Buckley signed a contract with the Kangaroos while he was playing for Port Adelaide before his first season with the Brisbane Bears in 1993, agreeing to become a North Melbourne player from 1994.

North Melbourne's chief recruiter at the time, Neville Stibbard, recounted the story this week.

"It was a pre-done deal," Stibbard said. "I think Greg Miller still has the signed contract in his briefcase."

Stibbard and Miller, the two men alongside then coach Denis Pagan behind building North Melbourne into an AFL powerhouse in the 1990s, built a strong relationship with Buckley and his father, Ray, with regular visits to the family before Buckley became a Brisbane Bear.

The Bears took Buckley as part of their Northern Territory zone, with an agreement he could leave the Queensland club after one season.
North Melbourne pounced and got their man. And so, for 12 months North Melbourne had Buckley as part of its future. The deal was done and signed off on, but then you had to wait for trade week.

"The AFL changed the way the forms were written so that you had to have the date of the trade week on, which stuffed us." Stibbard said.

The change in rules made the contract Buckley signed with North Melbourne redundant, meaning he was open to any club in 1993 trade week, when Collingwood swooped.

"Then 'Gubby' (then Collingwood administrator Graeme Allen) got in the act and pinched him from us," Stibbard said. "He was definitely North's player. But at the end of the day, he chose Collingwood."

Nothing dodgy about what North did.

AFL change rules. Collingwood benefit. The old saw.

But Buckley never wins a flag ...

 

[Squeenther]

Poor old Bucks, been "conned" by North. Even into accepting $10,000. Conned right into it.

Poor old Bucks, always a wee lamb, never able to look after his own interests.

The whole Buckley/Brisbane/North/Collingwood/AFL/draft thing was shonky as hell and many sides broke many rules.

Fact is Buckley had agreed to come to North, Collingwood bent/broke rules to get him there, the AFL connived ... and Buckley cost himself the chance of premiership glory.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/07/28/this-isnt-the-first-time-buckleys-snubbed-the-shinboners/

Strange that you'd link that article to support your claims. What rules does it suggest that Collingwood bent/broke? How does it infer that the AFL 'connived'? Short answers: None; it doesn't.

All it suggests is that North tried to subvert the official draft/trade channels to secure Buckley, and failed.

 

[Professor Knowall]

...AFL change rules. Collingwood benefit. The old saw....

Rules were rightly changed to ensure the trades were not "stiched up" by deals done a year or more prior to the trade week (and in this case, before he was even drafted). And the rule wasn't just for Collingwoods benefiit - the rule applied to ALL clubs.

...But Buckley never wins a flag ...

He's saving that for his coaching career.

 

[demonfan9]

I have a problem with the fact that these new clubs, who have been artificially created by the AFL, can come in and poach recently drafted youngsters with the lure of mountains of cash. I believe there should have been a protection around players who have just been drafted (say two years, as that is generally the standard initial contract length), so that if GC or GWS wanted to sign them, they would have to negotiate a trade and not just get them for free. Any player who has been in the system for three years or more, then they are fair game.

One one hand, you've got the AFL pushing the national draft and salary cap which is all about equalisation of the competition and ensuring every club has a reasonable opportunity for success, and then on the other hand you've got the AFL brining in two new clubs with larger salary caps, the ability to offer unheard of amounts of money, and they don't have to give up a single bit of compensation.

I understand that the AFL wants/needs GC and GWS to be successful, and they obviously want to avoid a repeat of the Bad News Bears and pre-Barassi Swans, but this new environment is simply unfair. And before you say "the clubs agreed to it", well that doesn't mean that I, as a football supporter, have to necessarily agree with that.

 

[Prudster]

Anyone reckon Scully leaving will cost Melbourne a flag? I reckon it will slow down their development, and by the time they are in contention, GC and GWS will be the only one winning flags.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Strange that you'd link that article to support your claims. What rules does it suggest that Collingwood bent/broke? How does it infer that the AFL 'connived'? Short answers: None; it doesn't.

All it suggests is that North tried to subvert the official draft/trade channels to secure Buckley, and failed.

Then what's the problem with Melbourne's tanking?

We didn't break or bend the rules, it's not cheating if it's done within the rules of the game.... right?... RIGHT?

Is taking advantage of a loophole in a rule cheating?

 

[melbournemartin]

The issue is more about the AFL's pathetic compensation system, rather than being angry at Tom for leaving.

 

[telsor]

Every club knew these rules well before the 2009 draft.

Thread closed.

For good or ill, the clubs agreed to it.

 

[MaddAdam]

Fact is Buckley signed an agreement, took money, then dogged on it. Karma prevailed though.

Anyway, that's enough on that.

 

[zero]

Scully leaving IMO would simply be Melbourne paying the "integrity tax".

Ha nicely put

Hopefully Carltank also has to pay it at some point too

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I'm sure Greg Miller's actions were above reproach.

 

[melbournemartin]

Thread closed.

For good or ill, the clubs agreed to it.

If the Melbourne football club said "I don't want this system because we have picks 1 and 2 this year and don't want to lose one of them" would it really have made a difference?

If Tom wants to go to GWS then fine. He'll be forever be known as a money-hungry mercenary but if he wants to live with that tag in his mansion then he's welcome to.

The main two issues are not about Tom specifically. They are:

1) The compensation is ridiculously inadequate.

2) The system is flawed by allowing second year players to be poached. The expansion teams have been given ridiculous numbers of high draft picks. They will set them up for the future. The poaching of uncontracted players should be to allow the team to perform in the short term whilst the youngsters develop, as well as bringing in marketing by the signing of players like Ablett. Scully, as much of a gun as he is, is not an experienced senior player to lead a new team of youngsters into the competition. He isn't a marketing icon either. His profile has only been raised by the speculation of him signing, not because of his footballing output.

Of course we will get the "sucked in Melbourne, that's karma, you tanked to get Tom" comments. I will briefly point out that no, our "tanking" netted us Trengove, not Scully. And even with our "tanking" we should have technically beaten Richmond anyway as it was incorrect to award McMahon a shot for goal after the siren.

All of the above paragraph is irrelevant though. The priority pick system was horrible. I hated it, even though we benefited from it in 2003 and 2009. I am on record for saying that. Check my posts. But, the AFL decided though that system that Melbourne deserved the top two picks then. To now come out and say that in losing one of those players we will only recieve one late first round draft pick (most likely) makes the entire priority pick system even more farsical. Vlad stood by through all of the accusations of tanking by saying that lowly teams NEED these players. Now he puts in place where not only can these players be easily poached, but adequate compensation is not provided.

So no, it is not thread closed. If only Vlad possessed the same common sense that I have.

 

[Hollow Knight]

1) The compensation is ridiculously inadequate.

Just cancels out the priority pick system being ridiculously overadequate.

Ying & Yang.

 

[bodazoka]

I wont consider him a money hungry mercenary at all.. and by the end of his career when he has won multiple premierships with WS and has just pocketed millions of dollars playing football I doubt he will care that Melbourne supporters dont like him....

 

[CowboyFromHell]

I wont consider him a money hungry mercenary at all.. and by the end of his career when he has won multiple premierships with WS and has just pocketed millions of dollars playing football I doubt he will care that Melbourne supporters dont like him....

On what basis? I'd love to hear it.

A lot of mis-guided hate from BD in this thread too. Shame, really.

 

[bulletproof]

Why is there not suitable compensation? This is the only question I would like answered and no one had provided it in two years. If Melbourne get what we got for Ablett that is not even close to a fair trade.

Someone please tell me why?

It should be pick 1 and maybe one at end first round. If they were given that Dees fans could stomach in.

 

[Hollow Knight]

A lot of mis-guided hate from BD in this thread too. Shame, really.

Pretty immature to describe someone with a different opinion as suffering from "mis-guided hate". Shame, really.

I feel nothing about Melbourne as a footy club. They don't spark any real emotion in me either way. I do lack respect for the clubs who deliberately lost games in order to reap draft bonuses.

No hate involved, I just won't feel sorry for you if you lose a player gained from such a manipulation, and I find the media sympathy campaign rather amusing.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Pretty immature to describe someone with a different opinion as suffering from "mis-guided hate". Shame, really.

I feel nothing about Melbourne as a footy club. They don't spark any real emotion in me either way. I do lack respect for the clubs who deliberately lost games in order to reap draft bonuses.

No hate involved, I just won't feel sorry for you if you lose a player gained from such a manipulation, and I find the media sympathy campaign rather amusing.

What I find interesting is that you think we care if you, or any other poster for that matter, feels sorry for us. We don't. We just want the correct compensation if he goes and it looks like we won't get it. Well, not straight away anyway... Jack Viney in 2013 will do just nicely though.

You feel nothing for the MFC? Great. Pats on the back for you. Again, we don't care.

And I don't know where this media sympathy comes from. There have been articles about it both ways. Just because Ralph comes out with an opinion piece it means there is a heap of sympathy floating about? Yeah, right. Our own former players are quite happy to declare him gone so I don't know where this sympathy is coming from.

 

[Nickos66]

Agree with the OP.

In lieu of being reminded of this, I hope he takes the money & runs.

 

[Waspy79]

The level of media boo-hoo for the Demons is ridiculous.

The Lions have already lost 2 players to an expansion side, and Mitch Clark looks to be the third. Walker will be the Crows' second player lost to an expansion side.

Why the disproportionate level of media angst about the prospect of Scully going? I find it very hard to feel sorry for them, especially considering the dodgy way in which they got him. The Lions have never deliberately lost games to improve their draft position, ditto the Crows. As a result, you'll have to forgive me for not shedding a tear for teams who manipulated results to accrue draft bonuses. Sure, the AFL provided the incentives to do so, but clubs make the final decision to play along. Scully leaving IMO would simply be Melbourne paying the "integrity tax".

I like this post. Needs a bit more Port though . I have a feeling we will lose a player to GWS either this year or next, making it two players we have lost too (Krak to GCS), and we've never been a club that tanks either.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

I like this post. Needs a bit more Port though . I have a feeling we will lose a player to GWS either this year or next, making it two players we have lost too (Krak to GCS), and we've never been a club that tanks either.

No, you've just been shite instead.

Is Porthos still here?

 

[Gazza_11]

Actually, Buckley never was from Melbourne. Sth Australia, Canberra, Northern Territory then back to SA. But never in Victoria until he joined Collingwood.

Gosh, I knew that too. What I meant to say was go to Melbourne, which had always been his dream, given the culture integrated with football here.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Pretty immature to describe someone with a different opinion as suffering from "mis-guided hate". Shame, really.

I feel nothing about Melbourne as a footy club. They don't spark any real emotion in me either way. I do lack respect for the clubs who deliberately lost games in order to reap draft bonuses.

No hate involved, I just won't feel sorry for you if you lose a player gained from such a manipulation, and I find the media sympathy campaign rather amusing.

And as a side note - how did we tank? Talk me through the process and see if you're right. You won't be.