Traded Adam Cooney to Essendon for pick 37

[Malibu#27]

Carlisle and Daniher feast on North. Also Carlisle can go down back to take Brown while Hurley sticks with Black next time.

Also perhaps we'll have Dempsey on the ground from the start this time!! I would like him to run with Wells, who cuts up our one pace midfield.

Either way apart from your close losses in 13 and our in 14 both teams are looking ok for next year.

You'll be missing ryder though. ..

 

[naturally north]

How many of those have been good games?

Was dropped during the year

He's coming off a good season.

Considering that North have been judged harshly for letting Levi Greenback go who also had a good season. I feel both need to be rated on current output not deeds of the past.

My post was more about the perception he's always injured, it doesn't seem to be the case.

Am happy he's with us.

 

[Spook]

McDonald, Dumont, Brown, Turner and Tippett were recruited last year; McDonald(19), Brown(21) and Turner(18) made the team for the finals.

We will have our 1st, 2nd, 3rd round picks plus whatever we get for Greenwood.

Not enough youth for you?

That to me is very good list management. Good work North. If Cooney cost you little (or even cost a bit if you have cap space) and is only on 1 year contract then why not.... Worth the risk for sure

 

[Big_Birdy]

He's coming off a good season.

Considering that North have been judged harshly for letting Levi Greenback go who also had a good season. I feel both need to be rated on current output not deeds of the past.

My post was more about the perception he's always injured, it doesn't seem to be the case.

Am happy he's with us.

As in he had a good season in 2014? He got dropped.

Having said that I guess I didnt watch a huge amount of doggies games so perhaps he was better than I thought. Certainly not in any game I saw though.

 

[naturally north]

As in he had a good season in 2014? He got dropped.

Having said that I guess I didnt watch a huge amount of doggies games so perhaps he was better than I thought. Certainly not in any game I saw though.

Yeah he got dropped for a couple of games did finish with 408 disposals and 70 odd marks.

Also think with the trouble that the Bullies have been having he may just find another gear. Am extremely confident he'll go well at North.

 

[Big_Birdy]

Yeah he got dropped for a couple of games did finish with 408 disposals and 70 odd marks.

Also think with the trouble that the Bullies have been having he may just find another gear. Am extremely confident he'll go well at North.

Yeah fair enough.

 

[Dazb86]

Cooneys not worth much. 4th rounder should do it.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

He'll be a walk up start after a few years development though.

 

[tige19]

I don't particularly rate Scott as a matchday coach, it really has to come down to if the players perform or not because I am not expecting any tactical or strategic brilliance coming out of the box. However, in saying that, I think coaches are over-rated in terms of their matchday importance, most of the coaching is done before the game begins.

I would have been against us paying anything of value to bring in Higgins, Waite or possibly Cooney. Reality is Waite is going to replace someone like Tarrant or Curran who make Waite's body seem durable by comparison, Higgins will replace someone line Anthony, Cooney someone like Wilkins or Hine. I don't think they are world beaters but are taking the spot of a failed development position on the list, a few others will have to make way for our draftees.

Anyway you look at it, these players are vastly superior options to the players they are ultimately replacing, it doesn't really matter if they are world beaters or not if they are better options than what you have on your list and they cost you **** all to acquire then why would you not take them?

We are still using our best draft picks on the best quality youth we can get our hands on, it is not like we are making any major sacrifices. Will these additions win us a flag? Probably not, we are still dependant on the players we have developed improving to take the next step. However, if they do step up then the kind of players we are adding will improve the chance we have of winning more games. All you can do is try and win more games, it takes a lot of luck to win a flag, all you can do is give yourself the best possible chance of winning games of footy, circumstances outside of your control will largely dictate if you are a shot or not.

Yeah listen, it's really up to ones own thought process on what they think is the best way to go in regards to recruitment and development. You say the 3 recruits will only be replacing dead wood that didn't develop, I could then say to you you're better off handing those opportunities to the youngsters that knock down my door pre season and demand games of footy, I could also say well the responsibility is now on the shoulders of McMillan, McDonald, Atley and Brown and guys you need to grow up and grow up faster than you thought you might have had to.

Your list is good with some obvious holes, those holes are not filled with the recruits you have gone after.

From where I see it Scott knows your elite are all 28-35, he knows the time is now and if it isn't now then it may not be for a while. I get a real feeling that he doesn't have confidence to develop his own, or he doesn't actually have the confidence in the kids drafted over the last 5 years.

I don't doubt that the ability is there ATM to do some damage, however damage doesn't mean flags. I would see more value in sending draft pics and some quality older guys (26-29) to the Giants and going extremely hard at some of those VIC kids and even putting the feelers out with Suns and a Swans kid by the name of Tim Membrey who would have player a full season at anu other club in the league other than the swans or hawks. Think Jack Darling but a better kick, the kid is very good.

Next year really is make or break for NM, I hope you make it but break it on the biggest day of course

 

[Rockstar6]

He'll be a walk up start after a few years development though.

Who?

 

[Wild Bill]

Yeah listen, it's really up to ones own thought process on what they think is the best way to go in regards to recruitment and development. You say the 3 recruits will only be replacing dead wood that didn't develop, I could then say to you you're better off handing those opportunities to the youngsters that knock down my door pre season and demand games of footy, I could also say well the responsibility is now on the shoulders of McMillan, McDonald, Atley and Brown and guys you need to grow up and grow up faster than you thought you might have had to.

Your list is good with some obvious holes, those holes are not filled with the recruits you have gone after.

From where I see it Scott knows your elite are all 28-35, he knows the time is now and if it isn't now then it may not be for a while. I get a real feeling that he doesn't have confidence to develop his own, or he doesn't actually have the confidence in the kids drafted over the last 5 years.

I don't doubt that the ability is there ATM to do some damage, however damage doesn't mean flags. I would see more value in sending draft pics and some quality older guys (26-29) to the Giants and going extremely hard at some of those VIC kids and even putting the feelers out with Suns and a Swans kid by the name of Tim Membrey who would have player a full season at anu other club in the league other than the swans or hawks. Think Jack Darling but a better kick, the kid is very good.

Next year really is make or break for NM, I hope you make it but break it on the biggest day of course

Good post. We had too many players getting a game that should have been dropped - Adams and Black are the two our board went after. Higgins and Waite should replace these two if their form is poor again. For me that is an upgrade and will make us stronger. I think we are a long way behind the Hawks but we could finish 6th again and get lucky in 2 finals - or roll the dice and finish top 4 where you win flags from. Happy we are rolling the dice. IMO we will miss top 4 next year - but - we may not.

 

[Spook]

Good post. We had too many players getting a game that should have been dropped - Adams and Black are the two our board went after. Higgins and Waite should replace these two if their form is poor again. For me that is an upgrade and will make us stronger. I think we are a long way behind the Hawks but we could finish 6th again and get lucky in 2 finals - or roll the dice and finish top 4 where you win flags from. Happy we are rolling the dice. IMO we will miss top 4 next year - but - we may not.

Yep good call. "Back up" players are very important be it for injuries or form but most of all they put pressure on everyone to perform. Look at Shoenmakers and Spangher for examples of form. And then Sewell (injury poor bugger) and Langford. And then when you have young blokes drop off like they do you hopefully have another fringe bloke in form to replace him say black for waite or visa versa. Duryea/Litherland/Hallihan were all fighting for the same spot and had to therefore be in form. And then 3 ruckman to fill tor 2 spots created competition. Depth and back up is vital and it looks like North are building it even though losing greenwood isn't great if you can get something for him that creates depth it's ok. Example savage for big boy.
So as much as some folks said Hawthorn had a tough year re injuries, good list management getting 'back up/equal of' players and long term development of youngens should always allow you to cover for injuries and form.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Would probably end up at North

 

[Shagga is all Class]

Your list is good with some obvious holes, those holes are not filled with the recruits you have gone after.

From where I see it Scott knows your elite are all 28-35, he knows the time is now and if it isn't now then it may not be for a while. I get a real feeling that he doesn't have confidence to develop his own, or he doesn't actually have the confidence in the kids drafted over the last 5 years.

Those kids are at 100 games and those recruits are bottom 6 in the 22 until someone takes their spot.

Good luck to some skinny 19 year old who ends up on a Higgins or a Cooney if we get him.

Yeah our top players are in the 28-35 range.

And in 2 years Atley will have just turned 24 and be in the 130-150 game range along with about 8 other mids and flankers.

North are about to see the level that group will get to and it will be in the same window as our older players get to their final years.

 

[Thats Wright]

Yeah listen, it's really up to ones own thought process on what they think is the best way to go in regards to recruitment and development. You say the 3 recruits will only be replacing dead wood that didn't develop, I could then say to you you're better off handing those opportunities to the youngsters that knock down my door pre season and demand games of footy, I could also say well the responsibility is now on the shoulders of McMillan, McDonald, Atley and Brown and guys you need to grow up and grow up faster than you thought you might have had to.

Your list is good with some obvious holes, those holes are not filled with the recruits you have gone after.

From where I see it Scott knows your elite are all 28-35, he knows the time is now and if it isn't now then it may not be for a while. I get a real feeling that he doesn't have confidence to develop his own, or he doesn't actually have the confidence in the kids drafted over the last 5 years.

I don't doubt that the ability is there ATM to do some damage, however damage doesn't mean flags. I would see more value in sending draft pics and some quality older guys (26-29) to the Giants and going extremely hard at some of those VIC kids and even putting the feelers out with Suns and a Swans kid by the name of Tim Membrey who would have player a full season at anu other club in the league other than the swans or hawks. Think Jack Darling but a better kick, the kid is very good.

Next year really is make or break for NM, I hope you make it but break it on the biggest day of course

The joys of finishing mid table every year brings you those draft picks that give you an army of flaky B graders that can go either way.

This scenario can be used to its advantage.
Scott hasn't the man management skills of a Clarkson. Pushing a 19 year old to perform is more the realm of the angry dwarf. Scott prefers to make sure the kids shoe laces are tied appropriately and his 'snacking' has decreased.

Getting A grade talent then settling back into an energized army of B graders could just work.

 

[Thats Wright]

Good post. We had too many players getting a game that should have been dropped - Adams and Black are the two our board went after. Higgins and Waite should replace these two if their form is poor again. For me that is an upgrade and will make us stronger. I think we are a long way behind the Hawks but we could finish 6th again and get lucky in 2 finals - or roll the dice and finish top 4 where you win flags from. Happy we are rolling the dice. IMO we will miss top 4 next year - but - we may not.

As much as you like to think the sun shines out of Scott's arse, he isn't exactly the best in the business.

All of a sudden Cunnington and Ziebell offer a different dynamic to the forward line late in 2014? They were both drafted as gun goal kickers.

Scott has been fumbling the list with sports science and delusions of player loyalty for a while now.

Bringing in the heavier assistants and Walsh has as much to with this year, as Scott's performance.

He's slow in bringing in new blood and thinks turning the lights out will fire up the side.

If North don't make the 4 next year it would be a disgrace. There's really nothing stopping this side from going all the way now, except for Scott's career coaching mentality taking step by step to miss the boat by a retirement or two.

The mediocrity addiction from the fans and the lack of honesty in the culture... See Thomas diving, acting, faking injury for years... Is part of why they will smell 4th for a couple of years yet.

 

[stefoid]

Fire sale at the Doggies??

All peahearts must go!

Crazy Gordos massive stock clearance!

 

[stefoid]

Cooneys not worth much. 4th rounder should do it.

 

[Tas]

Yeah listen, it's really up to ones own thought process on what they think is the best way to go in regards to recruitment and development. You say the 3 recruits will only be replacing dead wood that didn't develop, I could then say to you you're better off handing those opportunities to the youngsters that knock down my door pre season and demand games of footy, I could also say well the responsibility is now on the shoulders of McMillan, McDonald, Atley and Brown and guys you need to grow up and grow up faster than you thought you might have had to.

Those you mention aren't really the problem, the problem was the mature depth players we have has been thin due to the lack of quality players recruited during the Laidley era, I think the club is generally happy at the quality of the young kids recruited. Kids just develop at different speeds.

You are suggesting the the club's strategy should be to 'hope' that more kids are ready come the start of the season. What if they aren't? We just piss the season away? You can't plan on hope, club needs to take as much action that it can to control the situation, if young kids step up then great. Guys like Firrito, Grima, etc have taken 1 year deals because they still haven't been forced out of the side. When they do then these senior players will step down and retire.

Your list is good with some obvious holes, those holes are not filled with the recruits you have gone after.

The free agency pool is very small, you have limited options. Frawley would have been a good fix for FB but he would have been a very expensive fix and had a lot of the top 4 clubs try to woo him for some time. I don't know if Higgins or Waite will work out or not, I don't have a crystal ball, all I know that in terms of quality they are much better options than some of our players who played this year.

All the list manager can do is look to improve the quality of the list, we are still determined to do the bulk of the improvement via the draft but if some better players present themselves as free agents or cheap trade options, why wouldn't you look to make your team stronger if it didn't come at the expense of drafting quality kids and youth development?

From where I see it Scott knows your elite are all 28-35, he knows the time is now and if it isn't now then it may not be for a while. I get a real feeling that he doesn't have confidence to develop his own, or he doesn't actually have the confidence in the kids drafted over the last 5 years.

Our top 5 most critical players are:
Swallow (captain) 27 years old
Goldstein 26 years old
Cunnington 23 years old
Wells 29 years old
Ziebell (vice captain) 23 years old

Our club has been prepared for Harvey, Petrie, Firrito and Grima to hang the boots up, one bad injury from any of these players and it is pretty much announcing retirement time. Daw currently looks like a bit of a donkey because he and Petrie share the same problem, they can only play FF. Daw can pinch hit in the ruck but he is no good at CHF or as a third forward, he is shithouse at reading the play. Petrie probably had one of his best years and I think Daw could pull off 50 goals sitting in the goal square, and I don't rate him as much of a footballer. If you are tall, can jump and take a contested mark then it isn't a very hard role to play.

I don't doubt that the ability is there ATM to do some damage, however damage doesn't mean flags. I would see more value in sending draft pics and some quality older guys (26-29) to the Giants and going extremely hard at some of those VIC kids and even putting the feelers out with Suns and a Swans kid by the name of Tim Membrey who would have player a full season at anu other club in the league other than the swans or hawks. Think Jack Darling but a better kick, the kid is very good.

That worked wonders for Melbourne.

Next year really is make or break for NM, I hope you make it but break it on the biggest day of course

I disagree, you want to create an environment for sustained success. Winning a flag is great, but you want to create an atmosphere where you develop a winning philosophy and frame of mind. I think compromised drafts have hurt us and it is why there aren't that many sides looking to push the same old contenders out of the top 4, they have been starved of talent over 4 years, too much talent went to too few teams and they are urinating top 5 picks to teams like hawthorn for pick 19.

I hope we keep persisting with creating an environment that performs as best as it possibly can, if we win a flag that is great, but I'd prefer sustained success to rolling the dice and hoping to pinch a flag or risk another shit era. I will be extremely happy if these wet nosed kids find it extremely hard to break into the side and have to push out decent mature aged players.

It puts the pressure test on the player's character. Greenwood is worried he wont hold his spot in our side due to the midfield depth and chose the club with the weakest midfield to go to. That is pressure. Sure, it is not great to lose someone after a very good season but if you have players who are mentally weak you need to weed them out. You can only do that if there significant competition for spots and new players are forced to push out other players to take that chance.

I'd rather take that pain now rather than find out on a grand final day that a player hasn't got the testicular fortitude to get the job done.

 

[Wild Bill]

As much as you like to think the sun shines out of Scott's arse, he isn't exactly the best in the business.

All of a sudden Cunnington and Ziebell offer a different dynamic to the forward line late in 2014? They were both drafted as gun goal kickers.

Scott has been fumbling the list with sports science and delusions of player loyalty for a while now.

Bringing in the heavier assistants and Walsh has as much to with this year, as Scott's performance.

He's slow in bringing in new blood and thinks turning the lights out will fire up the side.

If North don't make the 4 next year it would be a disgrace. There's really nothing stopping this side from going all the way now, except for Scott's career coaching mentality taking step by step to miss the boat by a retirement or two.

The mediocrity addiction from the fans and the lack of honesty in the culture... See Thomas diving, acting, faking injury for years... Is part of why they will smell 4th for a couple of years yet.

Your understanding of the game is really poor. You would not have a clue if Scott is a good or bad coach.

 

[Thats Wright]

Your understanding of the game is really poor. You would not have a clue if Scott is a good or bad coach.

I think the sycophant mentality is the one that hides behind a complete misjudgment of AFL. You'll get there.
Scott's not a bad coach, he's just not a very good one. He's learning and hopefully the list will now cover the Harvey and Petrie losses, it once looked like failing without.

 

[Thats Wright]

Daw currently looks like a bit of a donkey because he and Petrie share the same problem, they can only play FF. Daw can pinch hit in the ruck but he is no good at CHF or as a third forward, he is shithouse at reading the play. Petrie probably had one of his best years and I think Daw could pull off 50 goals sitting in the goal square, and I don't rate him as much of a footballer. If you are tall, can jump and take a contested mark......blah blah

Yea, that's why the top 20 in the Coleman are all ruckmen.
Daw had his chances to play full forward but went backwards. Never looked capable and will be out the Daw before long. As much as you like to pot Petrie, he's held up a butchering, slow midfield for years. He's dealt with spuds like Thomas, Daw, Tarrant and Hansen bringing their opponents into his space.

Without Petrie, North would continue having a Squib diver kick 45 mostly cheap goals a year and bring that constant 4-6 finish you BF lifers so dream of.

 

[Lockyer24]

North obviously think they are close to a flag. Good luck

 

[naturally north]

North obviously think they are close to a flag. Good luck

Thanks appreciate it.

 

[Wild Bill]

North obviously think they are close to a flag. Good luck

We are closer than 13 other teams.