Traded Adam Cooney to Essendon for pick 37

[Winter]

North obviously think they are close to a flag. Good luck

Beat teams 1-10 throughout the season and finished in the final four.

Why is our optimism some sort of secret? There are two teams, perhaps three to catch.

 

[bergholt]

Petrie probably had one of his best years and I think Daw could pull off 50 goals sitting in the goal square, and I don't rate him as much of a footballer. If you are tall, can jump and take a contested mark then it isn't a very hard role to play.

This doesn't make much sense. Petrie had one of his best years and only kicked 50. Only 9 other guys in the league kicked 50 this year, and three of those were from the premiers. Add Riewoldt and Ballantyne who kicked 49 and even then only 10 teams in the league had a 50 goal forward. Your contention is that North has a 50 goal forward sitting in the reserves waiting for someone to retire? Seems implausible!

That said, I think North are going in the right direction. Just remember what happened to the Saints in 09/10. Missed the pinnacle by a whisker, topped up with experienced players to try to stretch the window and now we're seriously paying the price.

 

[Leezorr]

Cooney is a good player, not a great one, but a very solid Mid, who can still kick goals, plonk him on the forward flank and move him into the middle a few times a game and he will be a very valuable player for any team gunning for a flag, If his knees hold up, and i think they will as they have been fine the last 2 years, he can definitely play anther 2 years.

He still has the occasional amazing 2008 brownlow like game, but then has a few quiet weeks, i think a change of scenery will suite him well.

Can see him doing a Lake and being very useful in a flag tilt, his very best is still amazing, its just not there every week.

Would be a steal at a 4th round pick.

 

[lionsrules]

Hope North get him and it's a successful move. Kangas are adding well their team. Hopefully the additions are enough to push the team that next notch to beat the top 3 of this season.

 

[Kimbo]

Hope North get him and it's a successful move. Kangas are adding well their team. Hopefully the additions are enough to push the team that next notch to beat the top 3 of this season.

Yeah, we did that already. But seriously, thanks, and I know what you meant.

Cooney is a good player... i think a change of scenery will suite him well.

Only if he doesn't lounge around.

 

[Tas]

This doesn't make much sense. Petrie had one of his best years and only kicked 50. Only 9 other guys in the league kicked 50 this year, and three of those were from the premiers. Add Riewoldt and Ballantyne who kicked 49 and even then only 10 teams in the league had a 50 goal forward. Your contention is that North has a 50 goal forward sitting in the reserves waiting for someone to retire? Seems implausible!

That said, I think North are going in the right direction. Just remember what happened to the Saints in 09/10. Missed the pinnacle by a whisker, topped up with experienced players to try to stretch the window and now we're seriously paying the price.

Most other teams didn't play 25 games in the year. There were 25 players that kicked 2 goals or more a game and about another 15 or so that were marginally off that. It isn't that special a feat.

If a team is pumping it to you 30 odd times a game then you should have the expectation that you can convert 2 of those. You are going to have your good weeks and your bad weeks, ie Schulz for example, kicked 66 goals, 8 of his 25 games he kicked less than 2 goals a game (1 or zip), 9 of his 25 games he kicked above 2 goals a game (3 or more) and 8 games he kicked 2 goals a game. So 16 of his 25 he was average or below, that is only 36% of the time he kicked 3 goals or more and there are a lot of ordinary teams within that 9.

So you don't really need to perform that well to get 50+ goals and you are more than likely going to be average against better teams or teams that play well, ultimate it is your ability to pile on goals vs shit teams that determines if you move into the premier forward position or not.

 

[Dazb86]

Cooney will be good when you have the run of play and bad when you don't. Has only run one way since his injury.

 

[Big_Birdy]

I dont think people are having a go at North for topping up. Its the players that they have topped up with that people think is the issue.

People comparing it to the Hawks top ups is a bit of a joke. Lake, Gibson and Burgoyne are far better players than Higgins, Waite and Cooney (now, because of his injuries)

 

[Falchoon]

Cooney will be good when you have the run of play and bad when you don't. Has only run one way since his injury.

sounds like Wells, Nicky Dal, Harvey, Higgins, Atley, Gibson et al

they'll be good when they're on........

 

[Winter]

I dont think people are having a go at North for topping up. Its the players that they have topped up with that people think is the issue.

People comparing it to the Hawks top ups is a bit of a joke. Lake, Gibson and Burgoyne are far better players than Higgins, Waite and Cooney (now, because of his injuries)

Hawthorn gave up Picks 25 and 41 for Gibson and Pick 9 (and Mark Williams) for Burgoyne.

Very smart but they hardly came cheap ala Waite & Higgins.

 

[Big_Birdy]

Hawthorn gave up Picks 25 and 41 for Gibson and Pick 9 (and Mark Williams) for Burgoyne.

Very smart but they hardly came cheap ala Waite & Higgins.

True

 

[master bate]

Hawthorn gave up Picks 25 and 41 for Gibson and Pick 9 (and Mark Williams) for Burgoyne.

Very smart but they hardly came cheap ala Waite & Higgins.

Hawthorn could afford to spend big because they had Hodge, Franklin, Roughead, Mitchell, Lewis, Birchall, Rioli etc who had already proven good enough and are seriously classy players who had just entered the primes of their careers.

North's version of those guys are Cunnington, Ziebell, Hansen, Wells (who is older), Atley. It just doesn't add up. Hence North are keeping their first round picks and hoping to find some bargains.

Higgins I don't mind because he probably has untapped potential no matter how unlikely it is to come out. Waite and Cooney I'm not so sure on.

You're trying to win a flag somewhat like Sydney in 2012, maybe not as talented as your main rivals but with a core in the right age and being the hard, strong and fit. That Sydney team traded in Mumford, Kennedy, McGlynn, Shaw and Mattner non of whom were that highly rated at the time. But unlike Waite and Cooney they had time on their side to play career best footy.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

Cooney will be good when you have the run of play and bad when you don't. Has only run one way since his injury.

Can't imagine we'd play him as anything other than a half forward with the odd stint through the middle. Would certainly be a cream player.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

sounds like Wells, Nicky Dal, Harvey, Higgins, Atley, Gibson et al

they'll be good when they're on........

Atley and Gibson only run one way?

 

[fronkalicious]

Atley and Gibson only run one way?

Gibson runs every which way. Forward, back, side to side. My god that man is everywhere. What a motor on him.

 

[Wild Bill]

sounds like Wells, Nicky Dal, Harvey, Higgins, Atley, Gibson et al

they'll be good when they're on........

Give me good players when on v a team with no good players. It's the difference between top 4 and last.

 

[HTPunter]

Pretty clear to me that clubs that have sort of finished that 4-8 bracket are going to have 1 last decent crack at a flag before Port and supposedly GC and GWS get their lists set to challenge.

Geelong have got Rivers and Clark, also tried to get Frawley. They are doing a sound list transition with guys like Motlop, Guthrie and Horlin-Smith emerging, but they are seemingly going hard to catch Hawthorn before the new boys arrive.

Essendon have gone and got Goddard, Chapman and Gwilt last couple of years. All cost nothing. They've kept Fletcher on, and also chased Winderlich hard to stay on. They are also doing a sound transition, got lucky with JoeD at pick 10, but I'd with 4 or 5 players entering the end of their careers, they think the time is now. With Heppell, Daniher, Carlisle, Hurley and Hooker they could still be making a fist of it in 5 years time, but would require Hawthorn like drafting and transitioning.

We are in the same boat. If we don't go hard for 2015 & 2016, then come 2017 you'll have Boak, Gray, Wines, Ebert, Wingard and Ablett, Bennell, O'Meara, Swallo and Prestia destroying midfields. Or at least it's reasonable to expect that to happen.

As for the injury-prone comments re: Waite, Higgins and Cooney, look at Stuart Dew

2006-20 games
2007-retired
2008-hamstring injuries, 15 games (out of 25), premiership and match-winner
2009-11 games

Hardly 'reliably' on the field. Match-winner. History books. Dew had PS experience yes, but he cost Hawks nothing (well, pick 45) and won them a flag. I think Cooney and Higgins are well worth taking a punt on, considering between the 2 we may be paying a 4th round pick...

 

[Thats Wright]

Pretty clear to me that clubs that have sort of finished that 4-8 bracket are going to have 1 last decent crack at a flag before Port and supposedly GC and GWS get their lists set to challenge.

Geelong have got Rivers and Clark, also tried to get Frawley. They are doing a sound list transition with guys like Motlop, Guthrie and Horlin-Smith emerging, but they are seemingly going hard to catch Hawthorn before the new boys arrive.

Essendon have gone and got Goddard, Chapman and Gwilt last couple of years. All cost nothing. They've kept Fletcher on, and also chased Winderlich hard to stay on. They are also doing a sound transition, got lucky with JoeD at pick 10, but I'd with 4 or 5 players entering the end of their careers, they think the time is now. With Heppell, Daniher, Carlisle, Hurley and Hooker they could still be making a fist of it in 5 years time, but would require Hawthorn like drafting and transitioning.

We are in the same boat. If we don't go hard for 2015 & 2016, then come 2017 you'll have Boak, Gray, Wines, Ebert, Wingard and Ablett, Bennell, O'Meara, Swallo and Prestia destroying midfields. Or at least it's reasonable to expect that to happen.

As for the injury-prone comments re: Waite, Higgins and Cooney, look at Stuart Dew

2006-20 games
2007-retired
2008-hamstring injuries, 15 games (out of 25), premiership and match-winner
2009-11 games

Hardly 'reliably' on the field. Match-winner. History books. Dew had PS experience yes, but he cost Hawks nothing (well, pick 45) and won them a flag. I think Cooney and Higgins are well worth taking a punt on, considering between the 2 we may be paying a 4th round pick...

Well said. Might add Waite for bugger all still puts a rocket up Black and Tarrant, relieves some pressure on Petrie and pushes Daw to trade bait.
Is a Win if he plays 30 games over 2 years and even if the coaches want to play the sustained top 4 line.. They'd be mad to not have a relentless crack in the next 2 years.

 

[Heppellicious]

Sounds like it is down to north and essendon. Was reportedly at both clubs Friday.

In terms of where both clubs are at, I don't think there is much between them to be honest. However I suspect he will opt for north. Curious to see what the asking price will be from the dogs.

 

[Wild Bill]

Sounds like it is down to north and essendon. Was reportedly at both clubs Friday.

In terms of where both clubs are at, I don't think there is much between them to be honest. However I suspect he will opt for north. Curious to see what the asking price will be from the dogs.

I keep seeing not much between us. It's like saying there is not much between Essendon and Carlton. If a team wins 4 or 5 games more in a season they are better.

 

[Spook]

Beat teams 1-10 throughout the season and finished in the final four.

Why is our optimism some sort of secret? There are two teams, perhaps three to catch.

I don't think you guys need t worry about catching two or three teams above you; you clearly showed you are on par with them when head to head. You just need to play consistently at or near your very best and develope some additional leadership to help swallow.

 

[Heppellicious]

I keep seeing not much between us. It's like saying there is not much between Essendon and Carlton. If a team wins 4 or 5 games more in a season they are better.

You are entitled to your opinion. I think the sides are pretty close although Ryder's departure is massive for essendon.

Just to clarify essendon won four more games in 2013 than north, so did you think essendon was far superior at that time?

 

[Wild Bill]

You are entitled to your opinion. I think the sides are pretty close although Ryder's departure is massive for essendon.

Just to clarify essendon won four more games in 2013 than north, so did you think essendon was far superior at that time?

Essendon - we could not close out games. We changed our game planed and added NDS and came over the top of you.

The ladder does not lie and the win/loss record doesn't have bias opinion. We are shorter for the flag and most neutrals have us finishing higher.

 

[Falchoon]

Give me good players when on v a team with no good players. It's the difference between top 4 and last.

Thanks Einstein.

and no doubt having those types of players will allow you to beat the bottom teams easier.



which will be handy at the pointy end, again.

 

[naturally north]

Thanks Einstein.

and no doubt having those types of players will allow you to beat the bottom teams easier.



which will be handy at the pointy end, again.

How pointy an end are you talking? 2x final victories is fairly pointy, I'd just like to point that out. Don't think your point was really valid.