Mega Thread Adam Goodes starring in Lord of the Flies - The only place to post Goodes stuff - Read the OP

[grizzlym]

This is the only thread on this board where the Goodes 'debate' will play out. No where else.

Be vaguely respectful.

Don't play the man.

And keep it in here only.

Plus, and this important: let's try to keep the level of debate to something vaguely intelligent.

Bay 13 like posts or peurile comments, or anything playing the poster will be deleted.

The second deleted post will see an automatic thread ban applied.

No questions asked. No recourse.

 

[Siri]

I copped the wog tag growing up all through high school as I lived in a semi rural town that was very Anglo.. At the time I suppose I didn't like it however it didnt bother me to greatly. I would always sit back and think well I'll be more succesfull than any of you flogs, and low and behold that's been the case. Most people who attempt to chastise and put down others are just losers, I personally wouldn't boo Goodes however I can't stand the bloke which is not a surprise really as I can't stand most people.

I also copped the wog tag. My favourite come back was, "Shut your mouth or I'll raise your rent!". Still makes me giggle.

 

[Thaihawk]

I believe there are two things, and two things only that entices the majority of an A.F.L. crowd to boo a player

1. The colours they are wearing.
2. Their opinion of caliber of the man being booed.
Isn't this why Mitch gets booed? (Hawthorn colours, and a Hawthorn jumper.)


There may be a minority, IE. a very small percentage who have a different agenda.
In all this why can't people see Goodes gets booed for exactly the same reason as Mitch.

 

[PNess]

I disagree.

People who think race is the main reason people boo are over simplifying it. People who believe race has nothing to do with it are also over simplifying it.

I think the blame, if that's the right word, has to go to the AOTY committee (I don't think booing was a real issue before then). As a matter of common sense it was a stupid idea to award AOTY to a person who performs in the media week-in and week-out. And let's face it, Adam Goodes is on the TV each and every week of the footy season earning a living.

The demands of AOTY and making a living in the spotlight of the media are often conflicting. Footy is theatre and it is full of villains and heroes; one person can be both in the space of a weekend. Goodes has been both over his career. Differentiating his role as AOTY and a media "personality" was almost impossible for the average fan.

It would have been no different if Sam Mitchell, Joel Selwood, Nick Riewoldt or Boomer Harvey had been awarded the AOTY.

If they complained about a 50m penalty, pushed someone in the back, hit someone high, kneed them in the thigh or clobbered someone in the jaw a portion of the crowd would call for blood - "He thinks he's special because he's AOTY!... Booooo!"

Unfortunately, because Goodes is Aboriginal (and, let's face it, doesn't have a media friendly personality) a racial element of the crowd thinks it's okay to get on board and sink the boots in.

The fact remains that until the boos are accompanied by racist remarks it's all just speculation. That much is undeniable.

Robbo on 360 last night was pathetic. His over-sized ego (matched only by his over-sized suit jacket) is so hell-bent on shaping public opinion on this issue, and with that clearly failing he spat the dummy and lashed out labeling the public (everyone but himself?) "knuckleheads".

A clip was shown of Gil McLachlan answering "I don't know" to the question of whether Goodes booing is racist. Robbo then desperately and aggressively asserts that McLachlan should have said "yes". For mine, this says it all about Robbo's stance on this issue. Forget facts/evidence, let's run with emotion driven opinion.

 

[Gralin]

I believe there are two things, and two things only that entices the majority of an A.F.L. crowd to boo a player

1. The colours they are wearing.
2. Their opinion of caliber of the man being booed.
Isn't this why Mitch gets booed? (Hawthorn colours, and a Hawthorn jumper.)


There may be a minority, IE. a very small percentage who have a different agenda.
In all this why can't people see Goodes gets booed for exactly the same reason as Mitch.

You missed the 3rd point - because others are, the booing of Goodes has caught on like the calls of Broooooost etc etc, its like a mexican wave now people join in so as not to feel left out or be seen to not participate.

I'd personally like to see the boos stop so I can get back to reading flimsy articles on how the Hawks are not a shoe in to win the flag, all the booing is doing now is giving the media something to write about, we had them on the ropes before WC reignited the debate

 

[Thaihawk]

You missed the 3rd point - because others are, the booing of Goodes has caught on like the calls of Broooooost etc etc, its like a mexican wave now people join in so as not to feel left out or be seen to not participate.

I'd personally like to see the boos stop so I can get back to reading flimsy articles on how the Hawks are not a shoe in to win the flag, all the booing is doing now is giving the media something to write about, we had them on the ropes before WC reignited the debate

I think you should wait until Mitch plays West Coast before you say I have missed the point. I bet his reception over there is equally as brutal as Goodes's. However, because Mitch will take it like a man.

The press won't stick up for Mitch as they are for Adam, for the simple reason he is not an A.F.L. Ambassador, or an Australian of the Year.

I have not liked Goodes for many years now, as, he has always given me the impression he is a class above everyone else. This, added to his dirty on field acts, and the fact he is a $hitme player are the reasons I would boo him.

Let's see how the WCE supporters handle the booing in two weeks.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I remember being at a game at the Gabba many years back (09 or 10 maybe), long before the pointing and the AOTY. Goodes took someone off the ball and a section of Lions fans proceeded to give it to him all night. Never once was it out of line, but it was along the lines of him being dirty and protected. For that reason I have no issue with vitriol being directed at Goodes because it's judging his football character. I'm sick of the media using his games played and Brownlows as a shield for that too - guess what, Sam Mitchell has played a lot of games and is 9th all time in Brownlow votes - that won't stop people booing him. Football needs villains - Goodes and the media need to accept that he's an on-field villain. Villains make the game fun. I wish he would embrace it - but when the media continually tell him we're all mouth breathing racists then why wouldn't he believe it.

That said - those who then use the AOTY, the pointing and his standing up for what he believes in off the field as ammunition for the booing don't help with the argument that it's purely footy related booing.

Much as I've enjoyed booing him for the reasons stated above - I wouldn't mind if we happen to play Sydney again this year that we didn't boo him because a) we don't need the BS that comes along with it and b) let's not fire the bastard up against us.

 

[Thaihawk]

I remember being at a game at the Gabba many years back (09 or 10 maybe), long before the pointing and the AOTY. Goodes took someone off the ball and a section of Lions fans proceeded to give it to him all night. Never once was it out of line, but it was along the lines of him being dirty and protected. For that reason I have no issue with vitriol being directed at Goodes because it's judging his football character. I'm sick of the media using his games played and Brownlows as a shield for that too - guess what, Sam Mitchell has played a lot of games and is 9th all time in Brownlow votes - that won't stop people booing him. Football needs villains - Goodes and the media need to accept that he's an on-field villain. Villains make the game fun. I wish he would embrace it - but when the media continually tell him we're all mouth breathing racists then why wouldn't he believe it.

That said - those who then use the AOTY, the pointing and his standing up for what he believes in off the field as ammunition for the booing don't help with the argument that it's purely footy related booing.

Much as I've enjoyed booing him for the reasons stated above - I wouldn't mind if we happen to play Sydney again this year that we didn't boo him because a) we don't need the BS that comes along with it and b) let's not fire the bastard up against us.

My thoughts exactly 89A. Big difference between the two men is, Mitch accepts he made a mistake, appologised, and has moved on. (The booing has continued, though.) Whereas, Goodes, thinks he is above all and sundry, won't accept he is wrong, so can't move on.

The big problem is goodes is the one getting A.F.L. and media support, while Mitch's indiscretions are still being brought up be media Hawk Haters.

 

[Prudster]

Much as I've enjoyed booing him for the reasons stated above - I wouldn't mind if we happen to play Sydney again this year that we didn't boo him because a) we don't need the BS that comes along with it and b) let's not fire the bastard up against us.

I'm of the opinion that if he's playing in the game he's fair game. However, if Goodes retires and does his lap of honour, i hope there are no boos. Don't get me wrong, i don't like some of the things he's done as a player, but when you retire i feel like we should let bygones be bygones and celebrate the career of a bloke who has achieved an incredible amount on the football field.

If he's playing you are booing Goodes the player. But once he retires he simply becomes Goodes the person, and that man does deserve a lot of respect, despite being imperfect and making some mistakes in what has been a long career.

 

[Gralin]

I think you should wait until Mitch plays West Coast before you say I have missed the point. I bet his reception over there is equally as brutal as Goodes's. However, because Mitch will take it like a man.

The press won't stick up for Mitch as they are for Adam, for the simple reason he is not an A.F.L. Ambassador, or an Australian of the Year.

I have not liked Goodes for many years now, as, he has always given me the impression he is a class above everyone else. This, added to his dirty on field acts, and the fact he is a $hitme player are the reasons I would boo him.

Let's see how the WCE supporters handle the booing in two weeks.

I didn't say you had missed the point I was suggesting that there was a third reason people might boo Goodes being the pack mentality of doing what others do at the footy.

Of course the press won't make an issue of Mitch getting booed by the Weagles fans, they have a nice politically correct explanation for it and getting on the soap box about it won't sell papers.

Funny how everyone is talking about the booing and not how terrible Sydney are though isn't it, almost as if the media were under instructions to provide a smoke screen

 

[smeltitdeltit]

Just brought up Hodgey disposing of Fyfe in the marking contest at Tassie. Saying it was a blatant cheat and should have been a free to Fyfe.

Old campaigner

He even went as far as saying he sought clarification from the umpiring department and they gave the mark the tick.
What else does he need to realise he wrong??
Join the dots you old fool

 

[Bikefreak]

You'd never get KB to admit anywhere near that!

He definitely seems to lack good judgement and impartiality.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[Great 2008]

Goodes meeting with the players association about the booing. My desire to boo him has increased accordingly.

A glass of cement from the AFLPA would be the best result for Adam.

 

[Argy]

Mind you, giving Cloke a free kick is a clever way to get the ball back, because you get the reset after a behind is scored.

 

[Bad Boy Beama]

I sent SEN the following text last night (and surprise surprise it wasn't read out) when they were discussing Goodes


I boo Goodes because of the dodgy he has done on the field. I don't boo Nic Nat, Jetta, Yarran, Betts, Roili, either of the Hills or any other player past or present of his race (other than buddies first touch against the hawks last year).

lets get this straight I wouldn't boo an openly gay player who follows a different religon than mine and is a different race, these are all irrelevant.

Goodes maybe a top shelf of the park, in his prime he was a very very good player and is still good.

If you get my point I don't boo him because of race I boo him for every dirty act and drive he has done.

 

[MightyHawks86]

The thing that irks me about this whole kerfuffle (been wanting an excuse to write that word for a while ) is the refusal by the media (Robbo being a prime example) to see this is nothing other than a black and white issue. Booing = racist. Case closed. Nothing could be further from the truth. There are many issues and factors at play here, and while race may be one of them, they refuse to entertain the notion that other factors exist.

Reading over this thread, there are a myriad of different reasons people have given for booing and not booing Goodes. Surely the media would be smart enough to realise that this is the case. In fact, they probably are. But no, they're going to keep on peddling the same agenda because they're committed to it, and outrage sells.

Bottom line for me - the world isn't simple, and can't be compartmentalised into this and that. We're at a football game. People cheer at football games. They boo at football games. Both happen for a variety for reasons, not just one. People have no right to say it's one reason and one reason only, especially without consulting all of those doing the cheering or booing.

Anywho, on to another issue that raised an eyebrow for me - Poor GAJ just can't catch a break this year can he?

 

[Argy]

Poor GAJ just can't catch a break this year can he?

Will still poll three votes.

 

[Boot Studder]

Umpires have been booed from year dot. They will be booed whether they be white, green or beige. They are maggots, their colour is irrelevant. While I don't tend to boo at the footy, I am tempted whenever Goodes takes the field. It has nothing to do with colour (white, green, beige, whatever... ), it has everything to do with his boots-first tackling style, his knee drops, his fakery, his holier-than-thou attitude. He gets my usually well-behaved goat. It is that simple, really.

 

[Brishawk]

Here is a lesson in Psychology for you all - The brain has two modes of thinking - Automatic (type 1) and Deliberate (type 2). Type 1 thought is where we take things at face value and make an immediate judgment based on what we see. There is no rational process involved it is simply a response built up by conditioning throughout our lives. If we look up in the sky and see dark clouds we make a judgment that it is likely to rain. If get asked what the profession is of a middle aged women who is conservatively dressed, who is carrying a book and wears glasses we are probably going to guess Librarian. Type 2 thought is where we rationally process information and come to a logical conclusion. We might look at statistics for rainfall and note that August is the driest month of the year and while dark clouds usually indicate rain, in August it is still unlikely to rain. We might identify that there are no libraries in the town where we saw this women but we know from reading ABS data that middle aged women in this town are most likely to be an accountant.

Not surprisingly type 2 thinking is a lot harder and more energetically expensive than type 1. Our brain is lazy and unless we are in a situation that demands us to engage in type 2 thought we stick to type 1 thought in most instances. This tells us that the vast majority of people who booed Goodes did not sit down and analyse Goodes' behaviour across his career and in the media and determine a scale by which that behaviour should be measured in an absolute sense and then against that scale they found Goodes to be categorically worthy of being booed. For most the emotional response (dictated by type 1 thinking) comes first and the rational arguments come second. Without training almost no one is self aware enough to be conscious of this process and even with years of training and experience we can all be prone to illogical conclusions based on type 1 thinking. No one believes themselves to be racists (except for neo-nazis I guess) so the reasons for booing are inevitably formulated along non-racist lines. That doesn't mean that booing isn't racially motivated it just means that people excel at rationalizing actions to align with their values and sense of identity. Just like Al Capone argued he was a public benefactor, we all argue we are not racists even if we are not consciously aware of the truth.

You may be self aware enough to know that any emotional response to Goodes was not racially motivated in any way however can you say the same for everyone else? You only need to look at the formulation of arguments in this thread and see how they have shifted away (for the most part) from arguments connected to his AOY award and his racism comments to safer ground such as isolated on field incidents throughout his career or his 'character'. Bottom line we don't know for sure if we are responding to his comments about race, his AOY, the time he pointed out a girl in the crowd for being racist, the time he slid into gibbo, the stupid comment he made on Sunday footy show or whatever other reason people are claiming in this thread. What we do know is that the response to Goodes is unjustifiable larger than it is for other player. There is no bigger on field flog than Stevie J. He also got caught driving at some ridiculous speed in a suburban area. He also had other off field issues early in his career. Never had anything like the booing Goodes is getting. So even if you aren't racists, why does anyone want to be lumped in with racists behaviour when it is likely that many people have responded negatively to Goodes' comments and actions against racism?

 

[Bikefreak]

Have fast come to the conclusion that in this wildly P C world it would be extremely unpopular to challenge the conduct of an aboriginal, AOTY who just happens to be a pretty accomplished footballer in a direct public way. This would definitely be viewed as racist.....no surprises there.
So they either side with him (AFL, Media, some players, some supporters), boo him (a lot of supporters) or it all goes in the too hard basket.
Anytime it gets too hot in the kitchen...out comes the race card.
Accountability Mr Goodes....for your part in it all. Thats whats needed.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[Prudster]

There is no bigger on field flog than Stevie J. He also got caught driving at some ridiculous speed in a suburban area. He also had other off field issues early in his career. Never had anything like the booing Goodes is getting. So even if you aren't racists, why does anyone want to be lumped in with racists behaviour when it is likely that many people have responded negatively to Goodes' comments and actions against racism?

The biggest flaw in this is that i can't remember a time in the history of the game where fans were told you cannot boo a certain player, or when the media had such a big overreaction to supporters booing someone. When you combine that with the sheep nature of crowds booing, you can easily see how this has built up to be greater than the booing of any other player.

I have a question. Why has the booing increased this year over last year, where i only recall him being booed at Hawthorn and Collingwood games. Why have other fans decided to join in when they didn't feel the need to as much last year, despite the girl incident and AOTY happening two years ago. The two things that seem to have changed are Goodes' war dance and the incredible media overreaction and labeling of every Hawthorn fan as racists. People are fed up with the AFL media and the AFL agenda, and Goodes is copping the heat for that (as well as the minority booing for racial reasons, etc.).

As for the being lumped in with racists point, why does that only apply to booing Goodes? Racists attend the football, but nobody is advocating not attending the football for fear of being associated with racists. Gee i wonder why that is, probably because that would cost the AFL money. They don't care about this issue, they care about public perception and money, and they get their boys club AFL media to do their dirty work.

 

[Argy]

Accountability Mr Goodes....for your part in it all. Thats whats needed.

I don't think he needs to be made accountable for anything. As I have posted elsewhere on this thread, I think the blame should be sheeted home to the AOTY committee. They made a big mistake by awarding the AOTY to a person who, because of his job, is exposed in the media weekly.

Football is a theatre full of heroes and villains. Think about it. If Sam Mitchell, Joel Selwood, Nick Reiwoldt, Brian Lake, or any current player was made AOTY then every incorrect tackle, accidental hit to the head, 50m penalty, appeal for a free kick, would be booed relentlessly simply because they were AOTY.

The AOTY committee should have waited for Goodes to retire before offering it to him. Then he would have been out of the weekly media circus and able to concentrate on doing AOTY things.

 

[Brishawk]

Have fast come to the conclusion that in this wildly P C world it would be extremely unpopular to challenge the conduct of an aboriginal, AOTY who just happens to be a pretty accomplished footballer in a direct public way. This would definitely be viewed as racist.....no surprises there.
So they either side with him (AFL, Media, some players, some supporters), boo him (a lot of supporters) or it all goes in the too hard basket.
Anytime it gets too hot in the kitchen...out comes the race card.
Accountability Mr Goodes....for your part in it all. Thats whats needed.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Do you know why Bolt got done under 18C? IT was because he used emotionally loaded language AND, most importantly, he fabricated the 'facts' which supported his arguments. Had bolt dropped the loaded language and stuck to the actual facts instead of making up lies he could have published the same argument under the provision in 18D which protects arguments in good faith.

That is the template. Stick to facts that stack up to support your argument. Booing isn't an argument and can be interpreted by any one in anyway.

 

[Argy]

Why have other fans decided to join in when they didn't feel the need to as much last year, despite the girl incident and AOTY happening two years ago.

I think that's in part because of the way Goodes has handled it.

How different would it have been if at the start he had said "I feel sorry for the girl. I felt really offended by the racist remark, but I didn't know she was so young. I'd like to get together with her, talk about it and bury the hatchet."

Or at any time since the booing became loud had said something similar to Sam Mitchell - "It's part of the game. Let's get on with it." He might not have meant it, but it would have calmed things down a bit.

 

[Brishawk]

The biggest flaw in this is that i can't remember a time in the history of the game where fans were told you cannot boo a certain player, or when the media had such a big overreaction to supporters booing someone. When you combine that with the sheep nature of crowds booing, you can easily see how this has built up to be greater than the booing of any other player.

I have a question. Why has the booing increased this year over last year, where i only recall him being booed at Hawthorn and Collingwood games. Why have other fans decided to join in when they didn't feel the need to as much last year, despite the girl incident and AOTY happening two years ago. The two things that seem to have changed are Goodes' war dance and the incredible media overreaction and labeling of every Hawthorn fan as racists. People are fed up with the AFL media and the AFL agenda, and Goodes is copping the heat for that (as well as the minority booing for racial reasons, etc.).

As for the being lumped in with racists point, why does that only apply to booing Goodes? Racists attend the football, but nobody is advocating not attending the football for fear of being associated with racists. Gee i wonder why that is, probably because that would cost the AFL money. They don't care about this issue, they care about public perception and money, and they get their boys club AFL media to do their dirty work.

As to why the booing has escalated that is reasonably easy to determine. Firstly, you are right in that the media etc. have handled this badly. It antagonized and galvanized people who were booing.

Funny thing about memory, you re-analyse and re-transcribe every memory you have every time you access it. The significance and meaning of each memory changes over time. Ever wonder why sexual assault victims can suddenly be struck by depression and other issues years after the assault occurred? It is because there comes a point where the memory stops being 'something that happened that was not understood' and starts being a great deal more i.e. a traumatic betrayal. It is easy to see that the media has antagonized people who booed (and people who didn't boo but felt aggrieved at been told not to) and this caused people to re-assess the significance of, for example, Goodes sliding into Gibbo. What was once a dirty but minor issue years ago is now part justification for booing and vitriol. This feeds the media which re-antagonizes the booers.

If you want the media to stop, stop booing. If you want to stop being labeled a racist, stop booing. The answer to all issues is stop booing and move on. If Goodes really is just another player we like to boo then what does it hurt to stop booing? Everyone comes out looking bad for booing Goodes in an unprecedented fashion. Its not just a bad look for the game, it is a bad look for fans of football, especially our club.