Coach Adam Simpson Megathread est. 2017 - Staying for 2024, Lyon’s Cryin’

[Deplorable trumpster]

Excerpt from the Chairman’s letter to members, nine weeks ago, at the conclusion of Round 8.



And from a follow up ABC radio interview the next day.





Nisbett on radio the same week:


Speaks to an acknowledge of wholesale change needed in many areas, with the club obviously thinking S+C, game style, list rebuild but crucially not coaching. Whether that’s smart is up for debate, hence the thread, but they’ve acknowledged a rebuild with Simmo at the helm as the plan for months now.

Simmo after our Essendon win two weeks ago said “we’re going through a rebuild” in his post game presser.

It’s very easy to say “they’re not even acknowledging we need to rebuild” if you ignore all the times senior staff have told the members and media that we need to rebuild.

But the point is that they are not saying what they mean by rebuild. There is no detail behind the statement. In some of Nisbett's previous letters he was claiming or intimating that using 4 draft picks at last years draft and not having traded any of them out was evidence of some kind of rebuild. Drafting 4 new kids at a draft is not a rebuild. It is what every club does at every draft.

There is also no visible signs of any typical rebuild activity going on behind the scenes. No tapping on the shoulder of older blokes with farewell games being organised. No dropping of underperforming senior players like Gaff to the WAFL in preference of playing younger players. No verbal indications that younger players will be preferenced in the 22 to older players over the next few years. No signs of the shopping around of players behind the scenes like Freo are doing with Lobb and Logue in order to get picks for the Jackson trade. No sign of any players or their managers looking around at other clubs after being told that they are not part of the long term plan. No mention of a larger than normal turnover or cull of players at the end of the season. No mention of any timeframe they think the rebuild will take such as a 3 or 5 year plan. None of that is hapenning.

I am expecting them to carry on as is into next season with pretty much the same list. I expect that they will take their 4 picks to the draft, not trade nor even attempt to trade anybody significant in or out, cull the usual number of players of 5 or so through retirement. But then brand it as a rebuild to supporters to take pressure off themselves to win more games next year.

 

[CursoryMercenary]

But the point is that they are not saying what they mean by rebuild. There is no detail behind the statement. In some of Nisbett's previous letters he was claiming or intimating that using 4 draft picks at last years draft and not having traded any of them out was evidence of some kind of rebuild. Drafting 4 new kids at a draft is not a rebuild. It is what every club does at every draft.

There is also no visible signs of any typical rebuild activity going on behind the scenes. No tapping on the shoulder of older blokes with farewell games being organised. No dropping of underperforming senior players like Gaff to the WAFL in preference of playing younger players. No verbal indications that younger players will be preferenced in the 22 to older players over the next few years. No signs of the shopping around of players behind the scenes like Freo are doing with Lobb and Logue in order to get picks for the Jackson trade. No sign of any players or their managers looking around at other clubs after being told that they are not part of the long term plan. No mention of a larger than normal turnover or cull of players at the end of the season. No mention of any timeframe they think the rebuild will take such as a 3 or 5 year plan. None of that is hapenning.

I am expecting them to carry on as is into next season with pretty much the same list. I expect that they will take their 4 picks to the draft, not trade nor even attempt to trade anybody significant in or out, cull the usual number of players of 5 or so through retirement. But then brand it as a rebuild to supporters to take pressure off themselves to win more games next year.

I'd be concerned if we only took four draft picks at the draft. It's not a clear intention of a proper rebuild. We would be treading water next season if this is the case. I'd hate to be in no mans land like Adelaide is after 3 years of rebuilding.

 

[HoneyBadger35]

But the point is that they are not saying what they mean by rebuild. There is no detail behind the statement. In some of Nisbett's previous letters he was claiming or intimating that using 4 draft picks at last years draft and not having traded any of them out was evidence of some kind of rebuild. Drafting 4 new kids at a draft is not a rebuild. It is what every club does at every draft.

There is also no visible signs of any typical rebuild activity going on behind the scenes. No tapping on the shoulder of older blokes with farewell games being organised. No dropping of underperforming senior players like Gaff to the WAFL in preference of playing younger players. No verbal indications that younger players will be preferenced in the 22 to older players over the next few years. No signs of the shopping around of players behind the scenes like Freo are doing with Lobb and Logue in order to get picks for the Jackson trade. No sign of any players or their managers looking around at other clubs after being told that they are not part of the long term plan. No mention of a larger than normal turnover or cull of players at the end of the season. No mention of any timeframe they think the rebuild will take such as a 3 or 5 year plan. None of that is hapenning.

I am expecting them to carry on as is into next season with pretty much the same list. I expect that they will take their 4 picks to the draft, not trade nor even attempt to trade anybody significant in or out, cull the usual number of players of 5 or so through retirement. But then brand it as a rebuild to supporters to take pressure off themselves to win more games next year.

“They’re not saying it.”
“Yes they are, here, here and here.”
“Well they’re not doing it”.

There’s simply so much post bye evidence of embracing a rebuild, as much as you can honestly expect mid season.

• Rhett Bazzo debut, played every game post bye.

• Debuting Zane Trew off unremarkable WAFL form. Not only picking him but giving him extended run on ball.

• Not talking about picking young players? “Exposing young players has been the priority” - Adam Simpson, yesterday.

“Giving these guys opportunity before the end of the year is our goal” - Adam Simpson, four days ago.

• Throwing players in new positions - Yeo to HBF, Jamaine Jones to HBF, Hough exclusively playing wing, Petch playing extended midfield minutes, Nic out of the goal square in his two games back. Gaff (who yes I also want dropped) has gone from a solid number of centre bounce attendances to being at 10 of our 124 centre bounces since the bye. Zero on the weekend.

• Repeat selection of the Hurn replacement in Rotham, who then just gets bagged for not being good enough. See: Edwards for developing young KPD.

• Visibly different on field game style, especially post bye. If someone can’t see this they’re just either being stubborn or not watching.

• The JK writing on the wall has been as obvious as anything, and they’re getting knocked for what? Not saying hey on August 20th or whatever, Josh Kennedy will play his farewell game. I guarantee they pre advertise it six weeks out and people get on them for being too sentimental and this is what’s wrong with our soft club, worry about the shit footy not the feel good stories.

“He’s got a few more games in him but not many” - Simmo, last week. What else needs saying?

• There’s no externally known shopping around of the older blokes because which of them have value that we’re not much much better off keeping (eg Jack Darling)? Lobb and Logue having career best years in a side that’s equal top is not analogous to any of our players. Which veterans should we be shopping that aren’t in packet of twisties category right now?

• No mention of a list cull? What do you think “we are going to rebuild our list through the draft” means? Traded in an extra second rounder for this draft, Culley in the MSD.

Agreed there has been no mention of a time frame but that doesn’t bother me as it’s a no win situation in my mind (five years? Why so long. No ambition. Two years? Unrealistic, we’re dreadful). They’ve said Simmo is their guy but also that improvements need to be evident next year. Go from there. If they say it’s a five year rebuild, but you’re already annoyed that they’re only mentioning a rebuild to take the pressure off next year, what good is the time frame?

They’re talking about doing the work and getting skewered for not just doing it, and then when they do it they’re getting skewered for not narrating every move and plan.

I’m not expecting people to be loving every facet of the club right now but can we please not just make absolute shit up and pretend that there hasn’t been a very visible shift in focus, even to us plebs outside the four walls of the club, particularly since the bye?

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

“They’re not saying it.”
“Yes they are, here, here and here.”
“Well they’re not doing it”.

There’s simply so much post bye evidence of embracing a rebuild, as much as you can honestly expect mid season.

• Rhett Bazzo debut, played every game post bye.

• Debuting Zane Trew off unremarkable WAFL form. Not only picking him but giving him extended run on ball.

• Not talking about picking young players? “Exposing young players has been the priority” - Adam Simpson, yesterday.

“Giving these guys opportunity before the end of the year is our goal” - Adam Simpson, four days ago.

• Throwing players in new positions - Yeo to HBF, Jamaine Jones to HBF, Hough exclusively playing wing, Petch playing extended midfield minutes, Nic out of the goal square in his two games back. Gaff (who yes I also want dropped) has gone from a solid number of centre bounce attendances to being at 10 of our 124 centre bounces since the bye. Zero on the weekend.

• Repeat selection of the Hurn replacement in Rotham, who then just gets bagged for not being good enough. See: Edwards for developing young KPD.

• Visibly different on field game style, especially post bye. If someone can’t see this they’re just either being stubborn or not watching.

• The JK writing on the wall has been as obvious as anything, and they’re getting knocked for what? Not saying hey on August 20th or whatever, Josh Kennedy will play his farewell game. I guarantee they pre advertise it six weeks out and people get on them for being too sentimental and this is what’s wrong with our soft club, worry about the s**t footy not the feel good stories.

“He’s got a few more games in him but not many” - Simmo, last week. What else needs saying?

• There’s no externally known shopping around of the older blokes because which of them have value that we’re not much much better off keeping (eg Jack Darling)? Lobb and Logue having career best years in a side that’s equal top is not analogous to any of our players. Which veterans should we be shopping that aren’t in packet of twisties category right now?

• No mention of a list cull? What do you think “we are going to rebuild our list through the draft” means? Traded in an extra second rounder for this draft, Culley in the MSD.

Agreed there has been no mention of a time frame but that doesn’t bother me as it’s a no win situation in my mind (five years? Why so long. No ambition. Two years? Unrealistic, we’re dreadful). They’ve said Simmo is their guy but also that improvements need to be evident next year. Go from there. If they say it’s a five year rebuild, but you’re already annoyed that they’re only mentioning a rebuild to take the pressure off next year, what good is the time frame?

They’re talking about doing the work and getting skewered for not just doing it, and then when they do it they’re getting skewered for not narrating every move and plan.

I’m not expecting people to be loving every facet of the club right now but can we please not just make absolute s**t up and pretend that there hasn’t been a very visible shift in focus, even to us plebs outside the four walls of the club, particularly since the bye?

Can you be clearer and explain what i have posted that constitutes "making absolute **** up"? I don't think i have made anything up. I have posted my opinion that the body language from the club that we can see from the outside does not fit with that of a club that has fully embraced a complete rebuilding of the list that usually takes 3 - 5 years.

Are you arguing that the fact that we have some young players in our 22 week to week, and that Simpson gets asked for a one sentence quote about them in pressers, is evidence of full blown rebuild? Every club in the comp has some players under 21 and under 50 games in their side each week. So i guess that every club is at the start of a rebuild then?

Are you arguing that turning over 4 or 5 players via retirement at the end of the year and just not trading out our draft picks will constitute a full blown rebuild? It kind of sounds like you are. In which case there will probably be 12 - 14 clubs in full rebuild mode in any given year.

A rebuild is a real course of action involving turning over your list by more than the standard minimum 4 or 5 players that you have to, trading out players for picks and to create cap space for the future and prioritising younger players. I don't see any evidence that that is going to happen. Random cherry picked quotes from 10 minutes of verbiage in post match pressers where he mentions young players, after being specifically asked about them, is not evidence that this is the course of action the club intends to take. Meaningless quotes mentioning youth but committing to nothing mean nothing. What would mean something if he said it? If he said we intend to turn over a minimum of 8 players this year and next. Or if he said we intend to explore all our options at the trade table to get more picks and nobody is safe. Or if he said he was going to have to have frank and brutal conversations with some players at the club and encourage them to explore their options as the club had a 3 - 5 year plan that they are not part of. That would mean something. Mentioning the word "youth" in a sentence somewhere doesn't mean anything.

You sound very confused about what a rebuild actually means. Perhaps you can clarify what the term "rebuild" actually means in your mind.

 

[Chump Change]

But the point is that they are not saying what they mean by rebuild. There is no detail behind the statement. In some of Nisbett's previous letters he was claiming or intimating that using 4 draft picks at last years draft and not having traded any of them out was evidence of some kind of rebuild. Drafting 4 new kids at a draft is not a rebuild. It is what every club does at every draft.

There is also no visible signs of any typical rebuild activity going on behind the scenes. No tapping on the shoulder of older blokes with farewell games being organised. No dropping of underperforming senior players like Gaff to the WAFL in preference of playing younger players. No verbal indications that younger players will be preferenced in the 22 to older players over the next few years. No signs of the shopping around of players behind the scenes like Freo are doing with Lobb and Logue in order to get picks for the Jackson trade. No sign of any players or their managers looking around at other clubs after being told that they are not part of the long term plan. No mention of a larger than normal turnover or cull of players at the end of the season. No mention of any timeframe they think the rebuild will take such as a 3 or 5 year plan. None of that is hapenning.

I am expecting them to carry on as is into next season with pretty much the same list. I expect that they will take their 4 picks to the draft, not trade nor even attempt to trade anybody significant in or out, cull the usual number of players of 5 or so through retirement. But then brand it as a rebuild to supporters to take pressure off themselves to win more games next year.

They've said they are rebuilding. They are clearly trying to move away from the "guarding grass" game plan. Despite recent losses, we have made progress on the field.

I feel there's still an issue with some of the senior players' motivation and work ethic. This is on Simmo and if he can't change it, then they have to move him on.

I get you with the dropping of senior players - should have happened 2 years ago. But you're talking about moving out senior players and replacing them with young players who will be our future. There's one problem though - we don't have any young players who are any good. We went 10 years without a top 10 pick.

This idea you have that we just play all our kids and their going to develop into a flag side is simply misguided. We need top end talent moving into the midfield. Once you have that, kids in other positions will rise to the occasion.

We need to be patient and try to pick some winners in the draft.

We'll have a better idea next year on Simmo. What does his game plan look like? Is it sustainable? Have the senior players bought in?

 

[Gazeah78]

Noble goneski today. Simmo's phone will be ringing this morning I suspect.

On SM-G780G using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Biggie]

Noble goneski today. Simmo's phone will be ringing this morning I suspect.

On SM-G780G using BigFooty.com mobile app

Emotional Noble departs, Roos vow to chase priority pick

David Noble's time as North Melbourne coach has ended after just five wins in 38 games

www.afl.com.au

 

[Chump Change]

Teams usually win the week after a coach gets sacked. LDU has come of age, JHF probably plays. Lets see if they can roll Richmond.

 

[amazingjoshy]

So off the back of two untried and inexperienced senior coaches, it'd be a bit surprising if they go that path again

 

[Rowan18]

Teams usually win the week after a coach gets sacked. LDU has come of age, JHF probably plays. Lets see if they can roll Richmond.

Oh man -first Richmond loses after the siren to Gold Coast (again) and then they'd lose to the bottom team. That would be amazing to see! Especially if it meant they end up finishing 9th.

 

[PremiershipNo4]

Simmo to Norf

 

[WCErevival]

Would be a strange move for him to go there.

 

[Cuzz09]

Think weve got Simmo for min 2 more years so back him and see what happens

On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[HoneyBadger35]

Can you be clearer and explain what i have posted that constitutes "making absolute **** up"? I don't think i have made anything up. I have posted my opinion that the body language from the club that we can see from the outside does not fit with that of a club that has fully embraced a complete rebuilding of the list that usually takes 3 - 5 years.

Are you arguing that the fact that we have some young players in our 22 week to week, and that Simpson gets asked for a one sentence quote about them in pressers, is evidence of full blown rebuild? Every club in the comp has some players under 21 and under 50 games in their side each week. So i guess that every club is at the start of a rebuild then?

Are you arguing that turning over 4 or 5 players via retirement at the end of the year and just not trading out our draft picks will constitute a full blown rebuild? It kind of sounds like you are. In which case there will probably be 12 - 14 clubs in full rebuild mode in any given year.

A rebuild is a real course of action involving turning over your list by more than the standard minimum 4 or 5 players that you have to, trading out players for picks and to create cap space for the future and prioritising younger players. I don't see any evidence that that is going to happen. Random cherry picked quotes from 10 minutes of verbiage in post match pressers where he mentions young players, after being specifically asked about them, is not evidence that this is the course of action the club intends to take. Meaningless quotes mentioning youth but committing to nothing mean nothing. What would mean something if he said it? If he said we intend to turn over a minimum of 8 players this year and next. Or if he said we intend to explore all our options at the trade table to get more picks and nobody is safe. Or if he said he was going to have to have frank and brutal conversations with some players at the club and encourage them to explore their options as the club had a 3 - 5 year plan that they are not part of. That would mean something. Mentioning the word "youth" in a sentence somewhere doesn't mean anything.

You sound very confused about what a rebuild actually means. Perhaps you can clarify what the term "rebuild" actually means in your mind.

We have 18 players out of contract at the end of this year. We have 13 players out of contract at the end of next year.

There are six players total who are guaranteed to have jobs at the Eagles in 2025. Why would they need to come out and say “we are cutting x number of blokes this year” when 18 of them are already out of contract? Why would any club come out mid season and say “we are cutting x number of blokes”. Strange, unprofessional behaviour to conduct publicly in the middle of a season.

Obviously some of the players will get new deals, but why are you worried about the volume of list churn when there are 31 players whose spot is up for grabs in the next 12 months?

On the draft, according to Lore’s live draft points calculator, we have the strongest draft hand by the length of the straight. What else should we do, other than trade non specified veterans to non specified clubs for presumably valuable picks? Maybe Melbourne will give us pick 18 and a future third for Gaff!


Again, you’re saying “they’re not doing anything” then hand waving what they’re doing. So then you say “well they’re not communicating to us” and then hand waving away when they do.

Given they’re not going to stand people down on the spot mid season, I’m not sure how much list churn they can do as of Round 19, 2022, but there are 31 players out of contract between now and the end of next year so there is so clearly a list churn coming. That’s before you get to the club saying “we will rebuild this list through the draft”.

From what I understand of rebuilds, they frustrating and your team is bad for a while, so I get why you want to skip to the end, but you’re saying all the steps they’re taking now don’t count and why haven’t they just done it all at once yet.

 

[UseR2006]

Maybe Clarko has decided to go there?
Can't see Simmo jumping ship to go to that flaming pile of garbage.

Can't see them going untried again.
Maybe Bucks? But it's a complete basketcase of a club and i don't see who would want to go there outside of untried coaches.

 

[Rowan18]

Think weve got Simmo for min 2 more years so back him and see what happens

On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app

It's interesting looking at how bad Noble's win loss was (5-1-32). We've gone 4W-21L since the disaster against the Bulldogs last year, which kicked off our run of terrible form. Even if we get two more wins this year, that takes it to 6W-25L.

Simmo won't survive a bad start next year with a win loss record like that. Win 2 of the first 11 next year and he'd be at 8W-34L, pretty much as bad as the Roos.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Would be a strange move for him to go there.

It would be a very smart move for Simmo to go there. Unless a freak occurrence happens he will not be our coach in 3 years so he would be nuts to not entertain a 5 year deal with North.

 

[kaiserchief13]

I don't understand this club. Every team but WC in the league would have sacked their coach with Simpson's past 2 years. He got lucky once and wasn't able to back it up having the best team in the league for at least 2, if not 3 years, yet the club believes he is good just because he got lucky once

 

[Cuzz09]

Yeah i can't see us winning 2 games this year. Maybe the Adelaide game and a tiny tiny chance v StK so yeah 2-4 wins.

so 4-18 in 2022 plus another poor start next year he should be gone.

Only way he stays if we start season decently next year with some good signs.

On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

God imagine the coaching turnover if every club in the league sacked their coach after two seasons out of the eight.

 

[King LeBron]

I don't understand this club. Every team but WC in the league would have sacked their coach with Simpson's past 2 years. He got lucky once and wasn't able to back it up having the best team in the league for at least 2, if not 3 years, yet the club believes he is good just because he got lucky once

And maybe that's why we are one of the most successful teams in the last decade, because we don't make knee jerk decisions on a whim like other clubs do.

 

[WCErevival]

It would be a very smart move for Simmo to go there. Unless a freak occurrence happens he will not be our coach in 3 years so he would be nuts to not entertain a 5 year deal with North.

He wouldn't be the coach at North in 3 years either.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

They've said they are rebuilding. They are clearly trying to move away from the "guarding grass" game plan. Despite recent losses, we have made progress on the field.

I feel there's still an issue with some of the senior players' motivation and work ethic. This is on Simmo and if he can't change it, then they have to move him on.

I get you with the dropping of senior players - should have happened 2 years ago. But you're talking about moving out senior players and replacing them with young players who will be our future. There's one problem though - we don't have any young players who are any good. We went 10 years without a top 10 pick.

This idea you have that we just play all our kids and their going to develop into a flag side is simply misguided. We need top end talent moving into the midfield. Once you have that, kids in other positions will rise to the occasion.

We need to be patient and try to pick some winners in the draft.

We'll have a better idea next year on Simmo. What does his game plan look like? Is it sustainable? Have the senior players bought in?

I didn't say play all the kids all the time. I made an observation that from the outside it doesn't look like the club has accepted that the list is as bad as the results suggest and it doesn't look like they are going to do any of the things that are normally associated with full rebuilds. It looks like we will be turning over just the same standard number of players as every year and we won't be looking to trade players out in exchange for picks or purely as a salary dump so we have more cap space in years to come. I don't consider that a rebuild. Maybe other people do. A rebuild means taking pain in the present in order to benefit in the future.

It is one thing to turn up at a presser and use the word rebuild in a sentence. It is another to verbally commit with some specificity to the actions that are part of rebuilding. If they were saying there were going to explore their options to try and get another draft pick or two to use by seeing what they get offered for older players, or move on a significantly larger number of players than normal, or encourage some players still under contract to explore their options and look at other clubs as their opportunities with us will be limited, then i would consider those statements meaningful and conclude they were actually in a rebuilding mentality. If they just turn up in pressers and use the word rebuild in the answer when pushed by journalists to use it but are avoiding committing to the actions that constitute a rebuild then i don't think the mentioning of the word rebuild means anything.

 

[Chump Change]

He wouldn't be the coach at North in 3 years either.

LDU and JHF is enough to build a top 4 side around.

 

[bzparkes]

I don't understand this club. Every team but WC in the league would have sacked their coach with Simpson's past 2 years. He got lucky once and wasn't able to back it up having the best team in the league for at least 2, if not 3 years, yet the club believes he is good just because he got lucky once

We don't get the 6 month pay out clause like the AFL owned clubs do, thats why.

He's also more successful than most coaches in the AFL, plus the club's acknowledged were going to rebuild. W/L won't won't the KPI for him next year.