Banter Adelaide Board's Combined Politics/Covid discussion Banter Thread (WARNING NOT FOR THE FAINT-HEARTED)

[Slippery Pete]

From the Herald Sun:

Australia’s expert immunisation says they never recommended Covid vaccine mandates

Asked why state-enforced vaccine mandates for businesses were necessary if between 80-90 per cent of the population were vaccinated, co-chair Dr Christopher Blyth said: “ATAGI has not provided a recommendation for mandates at any time”.

Colleague Allen Cheng also cast doubt over Australia achieving herd immunity against Covid-19 saying the situation was different to diseases such as measles.

He said this was because the vaccine did not provide 100 per cent protection, effectiveness wanes, and there are different variants.

“Whether it is possible to get herd immunity in that situation is unclear,” Prof Cheng said.

But only seven in ten Australians say they will definitely get a vaccine booster shot, according to new Australian National University research

 

[Cap]

Only 7 in 10

 

[Slippery Pete]

Only 7 in 10

What’s funny?

 

[Coopers]

What's woke about vaccines?

It's PC gone mad. So I'm supposed to get vaccinated to help others and myself not get sick? Just like masks, I'm being forced to care about others.

This is the elite liberal hollywood agenda.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Don’t think anyone thought we were going back totally to what we had prior to this pandemic. There were going to restrictions but at what level was the talking point. If you are fully vaccinated, you can travel, go out etc. if unvaccinated, you stay home. Seems about fair. Community responsibility.

Are still one of those “let it rip” sort of individuals?

What, like you?

Covid thread, no other politics

Come again?:think: Oops.

www.bigfooty.com

kirky said:
Time to open up now that vaccination targets are getting nearer. If anyone out there aren’t vaccinated, I personally don’t care. Let it rip, only the dumb arses will get infected and the collective IQ of the planet increases (every 10 days, 8,000 more Republicans than Democrats die in the USA - natural selection at work)

 

[Crow till I die]

It's PC gone mad. So I'm supposed to get vaccinated to help others and myself not get sick? Just like masks, I'm being forced to care about others.

This is the elite liberal hollywood agenda.

Curious one that..get vaccinated to help others. Has there been new data to show when vaccinated we can't pass on Covid? or that we can't catch Covid? - phew, I was worried but now I am vaccinated i can't make anyone else sick if somehow I caught Covid. I mean we know that getting vaccinated helps ourselves to be as best protected as possible to the best of our knowledge. This whole thread has meandered along and now this bombshell - cheers

As for masks - before we opened the borders late Nov, we were mandated to wear masks at many venues and public places. A question - with no Covid at all in the SA community for months, how was wearing a mask helping to care for others?. I mean for years - nay centuries we have not had to wear masks to protect others in the community when there was no contagion in the community. Still, a previous post on a now closed thread seems to best fit this wonderful policy pre the borders opening up

I have a bear deterent siren.

Sound it every morning at 6am.

It is very loud and my neighbours hate it.

But my suburb has not had a bear attack since I started doing this, so my siren has halted any growth in bear attacks where I live.

Ho hum

 

[Thetrader15]

If they have Covid of course they can't play, but you can be fully vaccinated and still catch Covid and still pass it on - whats the difference? Meaning that it does not matter if you are vaccinated or unvaccinated, if you have Covid you can't play, you can still pass it on and you can still catch it so why the big deal on vaccination status as its not like the vaccination creates an impenetrable shield to stop Covid happening. Hopefully you won't get as sick if you do catch it vaccinated - that is why we vaccinate - to mitigate the damage to self

Edit. What about if you are not vaccinated and you don't have Covid - why can't you play? - rhetorical question

I think the point is that if you are vaccinated, you are much less likely to pass it on than if you aren't vaxed.

 

[WeeBlake]

I am coming around to being against vax mandates, but only because:-
1. Vax rates are now so high that antivaxxers can do much less damage
2. Mandates are radicalizing people and we’ll end up with even worse politics than we already do

edit - against *most* mandates. I still think they are necessary in high risk environments eg you don’t get to visit or work at an aged care facility or hospital unless you’re vaxxed

 

[Thetrader15]

I wonder if those who are against mandatory vaccinations in workplaces are also against mandatory sunscreen for those who work outside?

 

[Cap]

It's PC gone mad. So I'm supposed to get vaccinated to help others and myself not get sick? Just like masks, I'm being forced to care about others.

This is the elite liberal hollywood agenda.

Vaccinations have been around long before insecure scared folk started throwing insults at things they don't understand.

Vaccines aren't woke, they are just another human achievement that has made the world a better place.

 

[Bam_Bam_Aus]

If they have Covid of course they can't play, but you can be fully vaccinated and still catch Covid and still pass it on - whats the difference? Meaning that it does not matter if you are vaccinated or unvaccinated, if you have Covid you can't play, you can still pass it on and you can still catch it so why the big deal on vaccination status as its not like the vaccination creates an impenetrable shield to stop Covid happening. Hopefully you won't get as sick if you do catch it vaccinated - that is why we vaccinate - to mitigate the damage to self

Edit. What about if you are not vaccinated and you don't have Covid - why can't you play? - rhetorical question

If you are vaccinated you are both substantially less likely to catch it in the first place, and less likely to pass it on.

 

[Crow till I die]

If you are vaccinated you are both substantially less likely to catch it in the first place, and less likely to pass it on.

I understand there is a benefit there but for most people who are vaccinated - as you say, you are much less likely to catch it, so whats the risk in playing with an unvaccinated player. The risk is really all on the unvaccinated player then surely and then the 2 reasons that then should come into play from a professional sporting code perspective are that if an unvaccinated person is more susceptible it means they are potentially more likely to miss games and will fall foul of the SA imposed 2 week quarantine period in lieu of 1 week period - IF they catch it in the first place.

If I am at a bar or a club or wherever and I am fully vaccinated, I could not care less if I stand next to a vaccinated or unvaccinated person if I am much less likely to catch the virus being vaccinated..my risk is mitigated as best as it can be

This is a crack at mandates - not people choosing to get vaccinated

 

[Vhaluus]

Curious one that..get vaccinated to help others. Has there been new data to show when vaccinated we can't pass on Covid? or that we can't catch Covid? - phew, I was worried but now I am vaccinated i can't make anyone else sick if somehow I caught Covid. I mean we know that getting vaccinated helps ourselves to be as best protected as possible to the best of our knowledge. This whole thread has meandered along and now this bombshell - cheers

As for masks - before we opened the borders late Nov, we were mandated to wear masks at many venues and public places. A question - with no Covid at all in the SA community for months, how was wearing a mask helping to care for others?. I mean for years - nay centuries we have not had to wear masks to protect others in the community when there was no contagion in the community. Still, a previous post on a now closed thread seems to best fit this wonderful policy pre the borders opening up

I have a bear deterent siren.

Sound it every morning at 6am.

It is very loud and my neighbours hate it.

But my suburb has not had a bear attack since I started doing this, so my siren has halted any growth in bear attacks where I live.

Ho hum

the vaccination means that if you catch Covid you will, on average, have a lower viral load. Which then means you're less likely to pass the virus onto others.

Is this really that hard to understand?

 

[Truck25]

I understand there is a benefit there but for most people who are vaccinated - as you say, you are much less likely to catch it, so whats the risk in playing with an unvaccinated player. The risk is really all on the unvaccinated player then surely and then the 2 reasons that then should come into play from a professional sporting code perspective are that if an unvaccinated person is more susceptible it means they are potentially more likely to miss games and will fall foul of the SA imposed 2 week quarantine period in lieu of 1 week period - IF they catch it in the first place.

If I am at a bar or a club or wherever and I am fully vaccinated, I could not care less if I stand next to a vaccinated or unvaccinated person if I am much less likely to catch the virus being vaccinated..my risk is mitigated as best as it can be

This is a crack at mandates - not people choosing to get vaccinated

No it's not, if the person with Covid didn't go to the bar in the first place then your risk is mitigated as best can be. It's still better to never catch covid that catching it while Vaccinated. Like it's massively better to catch it while Vaccinated than not Vaccinated.

 

[Bam_Bam_Aus]

I understand there is a benefit there but for most people who are vaccinated - as you say, you are much less likely to catch it, so whats the risk in playing with an unvaccinated player. The risk is really all on the unvaccinated player then surely and then the 2 reasons that then should come into play from a professional sporting code perspective are that if an unvaccinated person is more susceptible it means they are potentially more likely to miss games and will fall foul of the SA imposed 2 week quarantine period in lieu of 1 week period - IF they catch it in the first place.

'Mandatory' vaccination policies are a risk control that mitigate the outcome of a risk that has been realised. This is how risk management works. If you choose to accept risk, then the risk should be treated so that the consequence of the risk is as low as reasonably possible. In this pandemic, the single best risk mitigation we have is very high levels of vaccination.

If I am at a bar or a club or wherever and I am fully vaccinated, I could not care less if I stand next to a vaccinated or unvaccinated person if I am much less likely to catch the virus being vaccinated..my risk is mitigated as best as it can be

This is a crack at mandates - not people choosing to get vaccinated

I understand your position regarding mandates but I do not agree with it. I see it as a simple matter of community mindedness vs individualism. People who object to the vaccination mandates seem to place a greater value personal rights but I prefer to focus on responsibilities.

The example you use is a poor one. Standing at the bar alongside an unvaccinated person, you are far more likely to catch the virus because that person's viral load is substantially higher than a non-vaccinated person. This is why it is important that as many people as possible get vaccinated.

 

[Crow till I die]

No it's not, if the person with Covid didn't go to the bar in the first place then your risk is mitigated as best can be. It's still better to never catch covid that catching it while Vaccinated. Like it's massively better to catch it while Vaccinated than not Vaccinated.

Of course - but we are now on a path to accepting Covid in the community and its widely accepted that a large % of cases are asymptomatic so when the government finally realises their contact tracing regime they have now is self defeating if we are no longer pursuing an elimination strategy, there will be people here there and everywhere exposed to and with Covid.

As to the second highlighted part - that is no longer possible and should not be the position if we are accepting Covid in the community. Of course we all hope we are lucky enough to avoid it but the reality will be that when numbers get high enough it is going to be very unlikely.

As for the 3rd bolded part - again, of course, but that should be on the individual. I and my family are fully vaccinated - we made the choice to be so, but if others choose not to be, I am not going to discriminate against them and its on them to mitigate their risk - maybe wear a mask, socially distance etc. Me, I am vaccinated so have given myself the best chance to avoid serious illness. It really does not need to be mandated, it should be an individual risk management exercise

 

[Crow till I die]

'Mandatory' vaccination policies are a risk control that mitigate the outcome of a risk that has been realised. This is how risk management works. If you choose to accept risk, then the risk should be treated so that the consequence of the risk is as low as reasonably possible. In this pandemic, the single best risk mitigation we have is very high levels of vaccination.



I understand your position regarding mandates but I do not agree with it. I see it as a simple matter of community mindedness vs individualism. People who object to the vaccination mandates seem to place a greater value personal rights but I prefer to focus on responsibilities.

The example you use is a poor one. Standing at the bar alongside an unvaccinated person, you are far more likely to catch the virus because that person's viral load is substantially higher than a non-vaccinated person. This is why it is important that as many people as possible get vaccinated.

Some information on the virus qualifies this a bit but it is also incorrect that vaccinated people have much lower viral loads - they are similar, but vaccinated people have their viral loads decrease faster which means when infected they are just as infectious but it lasts for a shorter time.

Being fully vaccinated means we are less likely to contract Covid and I fully support people getting vaccinated but stop short of mandating it to create a 2 tiered society - so we will agree to disagree on mandates

You're Far Less Likely to Spread the Coronavirus If You're Vaccinated

Fully vaccinated people are less likely to contract the coronavirus than unvaccinated people. If they don’t get an infection, they can’t transmit the virus to others.

www.healthline.com

 

[Crow till I die]

the vaccination means that if you catch Covid you will, on average, have a lower viral load. Which then means you're less likely to pass the virus onto others.

Is this really that hard to understand?

You are wrong on the bolded bit but the viral loads do decrease faster in a vaccinated person - so you are just as infectious but for less long

You're Far Less Likely to Spread the Coronavirus If You're Vaccinated

Fully vaccinated people are less likely to contract the coronavirus than unvaccinated people. If they don’t get an infection, they can’t transmit the virus to others.

www.healthline.com

Even though the peak viral load was similar for vaccinated and unvaccinated people, the viral load decreased faster for fully vaccinated people with a Delta infection than for unvaccinated people.

 

[ADL9798]

Curious one that..get vaccinated to help others. Has there been new data to show when vaccinated we can't pass on Covid? or that we can't catch Covid? - phew, I was worried but now I am vaccinated i can't make anyone else sick if somehow I caught Covid. I mean we know that getting vaccinated helps ourselves to be as best protected as possible to the best of our knowledge. This whole thread has meandered along and now this bombshell - cheers

As for masks - before we opened the borders late Nov, we were mandated to wear masks at many venues and public places. A question - with no Covid at all in the SA community for months, how was wearing a mask helping to care for others?. I mean for years - nay centuries we have not had to wear masks to protect others in the community when there was no contagion in the community. Still, a previous post on a now closed thread seems to best fit this wonderful policy pre the borders opening up

I have a bear deterent siren.

Sound it every morning at 6am.

It is very loud and my neighbours hate it.

But my suburb has not had a bear attack since I started doing this, so my siren has halted any growth in bear attacks where I live.

Ho hum

And sure, you could have made this same argument for every prevention tool in our arsenal for COVID (and for any other disease for that matter).

• Why do I need to be vaccinated, there's no COVID in SA?
• Why do I need to get tested when symptomatic, there's no COVID in SA?
• Why do I need to wear a mask in indoor/high risk settings, there's no COVID in SA?
• Why can't we max out the capacity of sweaty poorly ventilated night clubs full of unvaccinated people, there's no COVID in SA?
• Why do we need border restrictions, we haven't had an outbreak in months?

Of course the flaw in this argument is that no matter how clever some of you may purport to be, none of us are capable of predicting when and where COVID would seed in our community, and how many generations of transmission might occur before an outbreak is detected (per the experience in NSW and Victoria).

Could these prevention strategies have been turned on and off like a tap after community transmission was detected? Sure.

Would this have diminished their effectiveness and created additional risk? Yes.

The logic behind maintaining a baseline suite of prevention tools has been to create speed bumps or outright barriers to slow or stop the spread once COVID seeds here, meaning any outbreaks that do occur are likely to be smaller and easier to contain, and less likely to result in long term lockdowns of the entire state's economy as seen in other states/countries.

As vaccination coverage increases, the necessity for other prevention strategies diminishes, as per the roadmap all states have adopted.

Contrary to the Chicken Little hysterics in the thread, many of them have or will be removed over the next few weeks/months (assuming Omicron doesn't throw any spanners in the works).

 

[Crow till I die]

And sure, you could have made this same argument for every prevention tool in our arsenal for COVID (and for any other disease for that matter).

• Why do I need to be vaccinated, there's no COVID in SA?
• Why do I need to get tested when symptomatic, there's no COVID in SA?
• Why do I need to wear a mask in indoor/high risk settings, there's no COVID in SA?
• Why can't we max out the capacity of sweaty poorly ventilated night clubs full of unvaccinated people, there's no COVID in SA?
• Why do we need border restrictions, we haven't had an outbreak in months?

Of course the flaw in this argument is that no matter how clever some of you may purport to be, none of us are capable of predicting when and where COVID would seed in our community, and how many generations of transmission might occur before an outbreak is detected (per the experience in NSW and Victoria).

Could these prevention strategies have been turned on and off like a tap after community transmission was detected? Sure.

Would this have diminished their effectiveness and created additional risk? Yes.

The logic behind maintaining a baseline suite of prevention tools has been to create speed bumps or outright barriers to slow or stop the spread once COVID seeds here, meaning any outbreaks that do occur are likely to be smaller and easier to contain, and less likely to result in long term lockdowns of the entire state's economy as seen in other states/countries.

As vaccination coverage increases, the necessity for other prevention strategies diminishes, as per the roadmap all states have adopted, and most of them will be removed (assuming Omicron doesn't throw any spanners in the works).

I'll leave you with the bolded part of your response which mitigated Covid coming here. Whilst hard borders were in place, there was no Covid coming to our community full stop. All Covid cases were coming in were medi hotel quarantined with no exception. Vaccinations were the so called ticket out of restrictions - which we are still under despite near 90% double vaccinated across the state so we have been told pork pies by government on that one.

Anything else was drastic overkill whilst we had a hard border to other states. but for the mask advocates whilst we had no Covid in the community? - what sort of masks prevent transmission, what about if we touch our masks - how effective are they? is one mask effective or should we double mask? What is the science behind forcing us to wear 'masks' with no covid in the community

 

[Vhaluus]

You are wrong on the bolded bit but the viral loads do decrease faster in a vaccinated person - so you are just as infectious but for less long

You're Far Less Likely to Spread the Coronavirus If You're Vaccinated

Fully vaccinated people are less likely to contract the coronavirus than unvaccinated people. If they don’t get an infection, they can’t transmit the virus to others.

www.healthline.com

Even though the peak viral load was similar for vaccinated and unvaccinated people, the viral load decreased faster for fully vaccinated people with a Delta infection than for unvaccinated people.

Except no-where did I say peak viral load. I just said viral load.

They may peak at a similar point but total viral load is obvously lower if it clears your system faster.

 

[ADL9798]

I'll leave you with the bolded part of your response which mitigated Covid coming here. Whilst hard borders were in place, there was no Covid coming to our community full stop. All Covid cases were coming in were medi hotel quarantined with no exception. Vaccinations were the so called ticket out of restrictions - which we are still under despite near 90% double vaccinated across the state so we have been told pork pies by government on that one.

If border restrictions had created a hermetic seal then this would be fine. Of course, this isn't the case.

Throughout the pandemic our state borders have been a permeable membrane that have allowed many thousands of people to enter the state every day enabling the continued functioning of freight and cross-border communities among other 'essential' activities. Public health units have finite capacity to assertively track and monitor all of these people, and of course there is also the assumption that 100% of these individuals will do the right thing while potentially incubating the virus.

Victoria had border restrictions and it didn't stop repeated seeding from the NSW Delta outbreak into the state. Eventually these incursions overwhelmed the system and a large outbreak occurred.

Anything else was drastic overkill whilst we had a hard border to other states. but for the mask advocates whilst we had no Covid in the community? - what sort of masks prevent transmission, what about if we touch our masks - how effective are they? is one mask effective or should we double mask? What is the science behind forcing us to wear 'masks' with no covid in the community

None of these strategies are 100% effective. And they have never been purported to be. This is why a combination prevention strategy has been essential while we build vaccination coverage. Each strategy reduces the risk profile incrementally.

 

[Slippery Pete]

This is why a combination prevention strategy has been essential while we build vaccination coverage.

The implication here, I assume, is that they stop once “we build vaccination coverage?”

 

[marvin]

Has anyone driven from Victoria to Adelaide since the borders opened?

I get that the process involves 3 tests (Pre-arrival within 72 hours before arrival, test on arrival, and test on day 6).

I'm not certain what we have to do with the "test upon arrival and quarantine until negative test result". Does that mean I'm expected to test in Bordertown; or does it mean we can go straight to the Victoria Park drive through, get tested, and go to my quarantine location? I assume we don't have to kill time in Bordertown until the test comes back.

Does anyone know the practicalities?

 

[Cap]

What’s funny?

That's 70% not only 7 in 10.

Given your view that everyone is being coerced into this vaccine that's a pretty big number who are just going to do it