Adelaide's form - A Dead Cat Bounce?

[ok.crows]

My understanding was Collingwood just finished high altitude training whilst in South Africa, so maybe they were affected by this. Remember people the Pies hardly ever travel 30 minutes from the MCG so a trip to SA and then the Middle East would be new to the poor little fellas.

However Collingwood being tired does not mean they are as fit or at the same stage as Adelaide are in their preseason.

No, but it does mean that Collingwood, and not Adelaide, are the ones that were trained too hard in this preseason.

Are you just naturally this slow, or do you have to work on it?

Is it really that hard for people to understand, you can't run an AFL side flat out during pre season AND the regular season without something breaking.

So why is Malthouse pushing the Pies until they are (apparently) near dead before the season starts?

Likewise the weaker sides are aware of this and they will take a punt to start the home and away season further advanced than other sides and gamble on their players not getting burned out or injured.

Okaaaayyyy ... so

IMO Craig and the Crows are under the pump due to last year and the retirement of several stars. Craig is trying to fast track his youngsters and squeeze everything he can out of McLeod, Edwards, Goodwin and Burton (to name a few).

Only time will tell.

You still haven't got it yet, have you Doofus? The Pies are the ones who have been training too hard, not the Crows.

BTW: McLeod, Edwards, Goodwin and Burton were not the ones who spanked the Pies ... in fact they were used pretty sparingly, except for Goodwin who played the whole game ... but even he played at full forward so he wouldn't be stretched too hard.

Craig's gameplan (virtually the same one that was working beautifully through the better part of 2006) relies not on stars, but on an even contribution from the entire side. He is obviously trying to get that form and flow back into the side. Against Collingwood, Craig got what he wanted. Play on from the backlines, move the ball quickly & smoothly forward, bring it in to the corridor, then pick out a leading forward. An even contribution from everyone, no reliance on just one or two stars. Perfect.

Craig is NOT trying to fast track his youngsters ... in fact the complaint if anything against Craig is that he has not introduced his youngsters to gametime early enough. The newer Crows players that took apart the Pies midfield ... namely Thompson, Knights, Reilly, Porplyzia, Vince & Douglas ... have all been on the list a few years now, slowly being "blooded" over a few games each year (except Thompson who was blooded at the Demons), until they were ready. Hardly "fast track" at all.

Likewise for many of the other important (but not yet "aging") players in the performance ... Bock, Rutten, Maric, Stevens, Van Berlo, Johncock et al.

Here is the story of the Crows four "first gamers" :

http://www.afc.com.au/Default.aspx?tabid=4417&newsId=55132

Of those four, only Jacky was drafted in last year's draft. Only Jacky is not likely to get a game this year. The other three players are from the 2006 draft.

Hardly "fast track" ... when you don't get a single game for a whole year.

 

[Crow-mo]

Many punters were somewhat surprised on how the Crows swept aside a lackluster Collingwood on Saturday. The Crows looked fitter and sharper than their opponents with several Crows saying this preseason had been their hardest yet.

So basically the Crows have pushed harder sooner in an effort to get a jump on the rest of the comp. Its like watching the Melbourne Cup and in the first km the sprinters bolt out only to be reigned in at the post.

To use a stock market term I can see the Crows performing a "Dead Cat Bounce" by defying their critics early in the season but seriously dropping off the pace in the second half.

Yes they have some good looking youngsters but these guys just like their key 30+ yr olds will struggle late in the season IMO.

dunno, you might be right. might not be.

too early to pretend you know either way. but feel free to post a copy of your betting slip

 

[Kirby]

I think the NAB suits a different style of football, if you look at the NAB games there is not a whole lot put into defensive pressure, it is mostly just free flowing forward running and for a tight defensive team like Collingwood that style of footy doesn't suit them and you don't want to get ultra physical in early Feb. I think it is why a team like Carlton does well in the NAB and falls to pieces when the pressure is applied in the H&A after the first month or so.

Very insightful post!!!

 

[jarmanagic]

My understanding was Collingwood just finished high altitude training whilst in South Africa, so maybe they were affected by this. Remember people the Pies hardly ever travel 30 minutes from the MCG so a trip to SA and then the Middle East would be new to the poor little fellas.

However Collingwood being tired does not mean they are as fit or at the same stage as Adelaide are in their preseason.

Is it really that hard for people to understand, you can't run an AFL side flat out during pre season AND the regular season without something breaking. Likewise the weaker sides are aware of this and they will take a punt to start the home and away season further advanced than other sides and gamble on their players not getting burned out or injured. IMO Craig and the Crows are under the pump due to last year and the retirement of several stars. Craig is trying to fast track his youngsters and squeeze everything he can out of McLead, Edwards, Goodwin and Burton (to name a few).

Only time will tell.

you dont make sense. Why wouldnt he try to fast track juniors and squeeze all he can out of older players? Isnt everyone trying to do that?

Read into NAB Cup what you want ( Collingwood flat++, gastro/travel??) Adelaide excellent but I'll tell you one thing here, NEIL CRAIG IS NOT UNDER THE PUMP

He is an outstanding coach and even when we struggled a bit last year the whole teams attitude/work ethic remained excellent. He is a superb motivator and a great coach for getting everyone on the same page and playing to a gameplan which is crucial in modern day footy. Match day moves less of a strength, but Rodney Eade and Terry Wallace are good at that, crucial in 90's when they built their (sagging reputation) they just cant get their teams into any order on the field and will probably both be gone by end 08

 

[ok.crows]

Read into NAB Cup what you want ( Collingwood flat++, gastro/travel??) Adelaide excellent but I'll tell you one thing here, NEIL CRAIG IS NOT UNDER THE PUMP

He is an outstanding coach and even when we struggled a bit last year the whole teams attitude/work ethic remained excellent. He is a superb motivator and a great coach for getting everyone on the same page and playing to a gameplan which is crucial in modern day footy. Match day moves less of a strength, but Rodney Eade and Terry Wallace are good at that, crucial in 90's when they built their (sagging reputation) they just cant get their teams into any order on the field and will probably both be gone by end 08

Of course Craig isn't "under the pump". He has the second best win/loss record of any current AFL coach.

Apparently Craig is now also now being credited with copying the Cats game style from last year, after the Cats copied it from? .. Craig's style of 06.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=413783

 

[MeeKrob]

I really dont know why Adelaide supporters are getting excited over a NAB cup game when clearly they were the only side the other night to give a slight sh*t about winning.

Mm yes, I also hate adelaide.

 

[On the Boyle]

Guys, just give it up.
I've already notified Hawthorn that we needn't bother turning up to games this year (like Port did at the Grand Final, but I digress) - I've watched both Channel 9 AND Channel 10 news here in Adelaide and from what I can tell, the Crows have already won the Premiership.
The best we can hope for is for one of our players to finish 3rd in the Brownlow behind Goodwin and McLeod...

 

[THRILLHOU]

Seriously - does an extra 4 weeks make that much difference come the business end of the season? These blokes are paid to be the fittest guys in the country. They live and breathe footy. If they cant stay fit for 22 rounds with todays professionalism theres something wrong.

 

[ok.crows]

Guys, just give it up.
I've already notified Hawthorn that we needn't bother turning up to games this year (like Port did at the Grand Final, but I digress) - I've watched both Channel 9 AND Channel 10 news here in Adelaide and from what I can tell, the Crows have already won the Premiership.
The best we can hope for is for one of our players to finish 3rd in the Brownlow behind Goodwin and McLeod...

Strawman.

 

[ok.crows]

Seriously - does an extra 4 weeks make that much difference come the business end of the season? These blokes are paid to be the fittest guys in the country. They live and breathe footy. If they cant stay fit for 22 rounds with todays professionalism theres something wrong.

According to the Melbourne media, Collingwood can't even stay fit through the whole pre-season.

 

[Obeanie1]

No, but it does mean that Collingwood, and not Adelaide, are the ones that were trained too hard in this preseason.

Are you just naturally this slow, or do you have to work on it?

So why is Malthouse pushing the Pies until they are (apparently) near dead before the season starts?
Okaaaayyyy ... so

You still haven't got it yet, have you Doofus? The Pies are the ones who have been training too hard, not the Crows.


Craig is NOT trying to fast track his youngsters ... in fact the complaint if anything against Craig is that he has not introduced his youngsters to gametime early enough.

Hardly "fast track" ... when you don't get a single game for a whole year.

Now the first indication one side is loosing an argument is they start getting personal and throw in a couple of bully boy comments.......ho hummm!!

Now allow me to critic your highlighted statement and provide an outside perspective.

In the past three years the Crows have been bundled out of the race deep into the finals....fact. The Crows premiership window as they say was the last three years. In this time Craig has seen this and pushed hard for his senior players to play. Just look at the madness in playing McLeod with a stuffed foot. So it could be argued in the last three years the Crows focused on a flag then playing/developing more than two or three youngsters. With the injuries suffered and players lost in the last draft Craig NOW must fast track youngsters.

The Crows have a group of great players in their 9-10th years and a bunch of pups. I just see the Crows slipping this season due to the imbalance of their squad.

So OK Crow this different opinion to yours might be a little hard for you to comprehend but just pry open your other eye and you might get it.

Gee....why don't we have the 'bird' icon to insert, for times just like these......

 

[On the Boyle]

Strawman.

Not a shot at the Crows, just the Adelaide Media.
Every year, it gets a little harder to put up with hearing about the family feuds of Edwards and McLeod, the Engagement of Burton or the impending second child of Roo.
When Everitt left us, I didn't even find out he was going until the deal was done - that's Adelaide's unbiased media for you!
You must admit (if you live here), that McLeod and Chad Cornes were the favourite for the Brownlow as far as the Media in SA were concerned, but where did they finish?
You can bag Melbourne's claim to Football as much as you want, but the truly biased reporting goes on here in SA and in WA (they don't care enough in NSW and Qld to be truly biased).

 

[jarmanagic]

Now the first indication one side is loosing an argument is they start getting personal and throw in a couple of bully boy comments.......ho hummm!!

Now allow me to critic your highlighted statement and provide an outside perspective.

In the past three years the Crows have been bundled out of the race deep into the finals....fact. The Crows premiership window as they say was the last three years. In this time Craig has seen this and pushed hard for his senior players to play. Just look at the madness in playing McLeod with a stuffed foot. So it could be argued in the last three years the Crows focused on a flag then playing/developing more than two or three youngsters. With the injuries suffered and players lost in the last draft Craig NOW must fast track youngsters.

The Crows have a group of great players in their 9-10th years and a bunch of pups. I just see the Crows slipping this season due to the imbalance of their squad.

So OK Crow this different opinion to yours might be a little hard for you to comprehend but just pry open your other eye and you might get it.

Gee....why don't we have the 'bird' icon to insert, for times just like these......

far too early to tell how we will go in , but under Craig we have seen emergence or significant development by Rutten, Bock, Thompson, Knights, Van Berlo, Porpylzia and Reilly

There are another level of players (Douglas, Vince, Sellar, Maric, Griffen, Tippett) who are on the verge of being good players, some ahead of others

I think his junior develoment has been good. In 05-06 we were in flag contention, of course you play your best side. By the way we were written off as no good at the start of 05 also

The good clubs (Adelaide, West Coast, Port as much as I hate to say it) who have been regularly in the finals the last 10 years rebuild as they go. They dont go on these long rebuilds of Victorian clubs (St Kilda, Richmond etc) that lead nowhere

 

[jarmanagic]

Not a shot at the Crows, just the Adelaide Media.
Every year, it gets a little harder to put up with hearing about the family feuds of Edwards and McLeod, the Engagement of Burton or the impending second child of Roo.
When Everitt left us, I didn't even find out he was going until the deal was done - that's Adelaide's unbiased media for you!
You must admit (if you live here), that McLeod and Chad Cornes were the favourite for the Brownlow as far as the Media in SA were concerned, but where did they finish?
You can bag Melbourne's claim to Football as much as you want, but the truly biased reporting goes on here in SA and in WA (they don't care enough in NSW and Qld to be truly biased).

agree 1000%, our football teams are generally pretty good, our media dreadful. Mind you Rebecca Wilson is not South Australian, we cant be blamed for every C Grade journalist

 

[ok.crows]

Now the first indication one side is loosing an argument is they start getting personal and throw in a couple of bully boy comments.......ho hummm!!

Now allow me to critic your highlighted statement and provide an outside perspective.

In the past three years the Crows have been bundled out of the race deep into the finals....fact. The Crows premiership window as they say was the last three years. In this time Craig has seen this and pushed hard for his senior players to play. Just look at the madness in playing McLeod with a stuffed foot. So it could be argued in the last three years the Crows focused on a flag then playing/developing more than two or three youngsters. With the injuries suffered and players lost in the last draft Craig NOW must fast track youngsters.

The Crows have a group of great players in their 9-10th years and a bunch of pups. I just see the Crows slipping this season due to the imbalance of their squad.

So OK Crow this different opinion to yours might be a little hard for you to comprehend but just pry open your other eye and you might get it.

Gee....why don't we have the 'bird' icon to insert, for times just like these......

Sigh!!!!

Someone here on BigFooty had claimed pre-game that the Crows were "too old and slow". So a Crows follower looked up and found the profile of ages and games experience of the Crows squad for the Dubai game versus the ages and games experience for the Collingwood squad.

It was almost exactly the same.

In that one post, the argument from an ignorant Pies follower that the Crows were going to be "too old and slow" in 2008 was beautifully and elegantly rebutted.

I could find that post and use it now for a double purpose ... since Malthouse has picked almost exactly the same age and experience profile in his players as Craig ... which of the following options would you prefer to admit?

Either:

(a) Malthouse is under the pump, the Pies age profile is imbalanced, and Malthouse is fast-tracking youngsters in desperation, or
(b) you got it all completely and utterly wrong yet again.
​

Your choice, (a) or (b).

There is the bird, right back at you, bozo.

 

[ok.crows]

Not a shot at the Crows, just the Adelaide Media.
Every year, it gets a little harder to put up with hearing about the family feuds of Edwards and McLeod, the Engagement of Burton or the impending second child of Roo.
When Everitt left us, I didn't even find out he was going until the deal was done - that's Adelaide's unbiased media for you!
You must admit (if you live here), that McLeod and Chad Cornes were the favourite for the Brownlow as far as the Media in SA were concerned, but where did they finish?
You can bag Melbourne's claim to Football as much as you want, but the truly biased reporting goes on here in SA and in WA (they don't care enough in NSW and Qld to be truly biased).

Fair enough. The media does seem to indulge heavily in a "who can be the most biased for the home state" contest.

It would be amusing if not for the utterly skewed viewpoint it seems to produce in some of the more ignorant followers with respect to how they perceive teams from other states.

 

[jenny61_99]

Now the first indication one side is loosing an argument is they start getting personal and throw in a couple of bully boy comments.......ho hummm!!

Now allow me to critic your highlighted statement and provide an outside perspective.

In the past three years the Crows have been bundled out of the race deep into the finals....fact. The Crows premiership window as they say was the last three years. In this time Craig has seen this and pushed hard for his senior players to play. Just look at the madness in playing McLeod with a stuffed foot. So it could be argued in the last three years the Crows focused on a flag then playing/developing more than two or three youngsters. With the injuries suffered and players lost in the last draft Craig NOW must fast track youngsters.

The Crows have a group of great players in their 9-10th years and a bunch of pups. I just see the Crows slipping this season due to the imbalance of their squad.

So OK Crow this different opinion to yours might be a little hard for you to comprehend but just pry open your other eye and you might get it.

Gee....why don't we have the 'bird' icon to insert, for times just like these......

Personal insults aside.... I strongly argue against the point you make that Adelaide have missed their "premiership window". I actually think that concept is a crock, but I digress. In 2005 when Craig had his first full year with what was a very average team with a very average gameplan the previous year, every footy pundit bar none had the Crows finishing bottom 4. We ended up finishing top two, only to lose in the prelim. In 2006, expectations rose (funnily enough), and we were expected to do well - still with the average team from the year before. Again top two finish. Craig was a victim of his own success. He had managed to get his team to within a bee's dick of the ultimate prize two years running, when in reality, this group of dedicated players were really not that good. That says oodles about Craig and his ability to get the best from his players. So while people are saying our "window" has closed, we never really had one to start with. When he took over, the Club and Craig saw it as a long term renovation, hoping to build the Club into a consistant finals performer. He has achieved that every year so far. It remains to be seen if a) he can do it again, and b) we can go that extra step.

I think every team in the league has the opportunity to make the finals as long as they have most things going their way (fitness, lack of injuries, luck, committed players, depth etc).

I take you back to 97/98 when, under Malcolm Blight, we didn't have the best team in the league by a long shot... premierships are there for the taking, "windows" or the concept of them are a negative mindset. If your coach believes he has missed the "premiership window", how does that affect his approach to the year??

PS. It's losing not loosing! (my pet peeve for the day! )

 

[ok.crows]

Personal insults aside.... I strongly argue against the point you make that Adelaide have missed their "premiership window". I actually think that concept is a crock, but I digress. In 2005 when Craig had his first full year with what was a very average team with a very average gameplan the previous year, every footy pundit bar none had the Crows finishing bottom 4. We ended up finishing top two, only to lose in the prelim. In 2006, expectations rose (funnily enough), and we were expected to do well - still with the average team from the year before. Again top two finish. Craig was a victim of his own success. He had managed to get his team to within a bee's dick of the ultimate prize two years running, when in reality, this group of dedicated players were really not that good. That says oodles about Craig and his ability to get the best from his players. So while people are saying our "window" has closed, we never really had one to start with. When he took over, the Club and Craig saw it as a long term renovation, hoping to build the Club into a consistant finals performer. He has achieved that every year so far. It remains to be seen if a) he can do it again, and b) we can go that extra step.

I think every team in the league has the opportunity to make the finals as long as they have most things going their way (fitness, lack of injuries, luck, committed players, depth etc).

I take you back to 97/98 when, under Malcolm Blight, we didn't have the best team in the league by a long shot... premierships are there for the taking, "windows" or the concept of them are a negative mindset. If your coach believes he has missed the "premiership window", how does that affect his approach to the year??

PS. It's losing not loosing! (my pet peeve for the day! )

Hear hear. Excellent post.

Mind you, you probably aren't going to get very far trying to convince a hopelessly close-minded Pies follower about any of this when it was Malthouse himself who coined the term "Premiership clock".

With respect to finals, you have to get the side into the 8 to get anywhere. The Crows have managed to do that every year bar one this decade. Almost anything can happen from there ... but the critical thing is "you have got to be in it to win it".

The Crows so far this decade have been pretty reasonable about being in it, but have had little success at getting deep enough into the finals series, in total contrast to their strike rate last decade.

 

[Rowie23]

All us crows supporters can get out of the game is an insight of how the younger players play, their possible potential and a form indicator of the individual players. But we cant get carried away in how good a player played. Players have bad and good games. Also the fact we get the game on TV so we can continue watching them play instead of hearing about it in the media.
& also hopefully we got an insight of how we will play most of the season (quick, corridor football). None of this frustrating give everyone a kick & a mark game plan of last year.
Collingwood has no need to take any think out of the game. Other than they are out of the nab cup. Their & the crows teams will look so different by the start of round 1. So who cares?

 

[Campbell's Chunky]

Would you prefer us to not turn up?

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

A 14 or 15 goal result is still a fairly massive result.

Either Collingwood is in for a long season, or Adelaide are going to be absolutley awesome. Which is it?

Did the surgeon walk out, half way through your lobotomy?

 

[jenny61_99]

Did the surgeon walk out, half way through your lobotomy?

There's something so very wrong with that question on so many levels!

 

[marcus]

The Crows win a glorified practice match on the other side of the planet against a side that had players on drips the day before for gastro and its seen as the turning point for the club.

Andrew Capel clearly only had one hand above the desk when he wrote yesterdays article. Early contender for tool of the year.

The fun bit for the rest of us will be watching the bubble burst.

I have raised my expectations for Adelaide though, from 13th to 12th.

 

[ok.crows]

The Crows win a glorified practice match on the other side of the planet against a side that had players on drips the day before for gastro and its seen as the turning point for the club.

Andrew Capel clearly only had one hand above the desk when he wrote yesterdays article. Early contender for tool of the year.

The fun bit for the rest of us will be watching the bubble burst.

I have raised my expectations for Adelaide though, from 13th to 12th.

Did you mean this article?

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/sport/afl/story/0,26547,23191747-5016212,00.html

It was just a tad over the top, wasn't it?

Oh well, as you said, it was just a glorified practice match. Come round 1, hopefully the Crows will have got even better at it ...

 

[bourbons]

And i don't think people with half a brain read anything into Saturdays game.

yep. It means less than nothing.

Funny thing is they even had a 'what have we learned from Saturday night' type talk back on 3AW last night.

Almost rang up and said you guys do realise Carlton have won 2 out of the last 3 NAB cups don't you?