Adelaide's missing ingredient - a small forward

[Cap]

I think Adelaides' missing a lot of ingredients....pace is another.
Dont forget Brennan is probably the best matchup in the league when it comes to Burton.

Pace is a small factor in my opinion. I think its a good thing to have but it isn't as big a deal as some would like to think.

 

[juice]

Stiff I agree with you. I was stoked when we first traded for Welsh but almost as happy when he left. Welsh when he was on was a gun but his 'on' games were too few and far between. I really disliked seeing his poor attitude on occasions and lack of forward line pressure. This forward line pressure was at times one of his real strengths but too often a weakness. After the first six rounds this year, this discussion wouldn't been raised, we lose two games to two classy sides by not much and look what happens. I agree we're not playing anywhere near as well as early on but lets not panic. Douglas has shown bits and pieces and is still young. Keep the faith, don't forget we were tipped to be bottom four. I think we have some talent with Jacky and Douglas.

 

[dplggr47]

can Luke Jericho crumb? he's agile enough. mayeb some of the rookies. i can see Petrenko being upgraded some time soon...but he is more of a defender than forward, but i guess it could give other guys an opportunity to play up forward.

...and Welsh isn't a crumbing player...and i understand his decision to leave. if he'd stayed with the crows, it looked likely that he'd be delisted at end of 08, seeing that crows were rebuilding and letting older players go earlier. he was purely prolonging his career by going to the bulldogs; and though that was partially hudson's reasons, he also wanted the extra cash and wanted out of adelaide.

anyway, a small forward isn't the only thing missing...centre half forward, a solid forward line, some more experience for our ruckman, ruckman who can go up forward and kick goals.

 

[Damp Squarie]

Pace is a small factor in my opinion. I think its a good thing to have but it isn't as big a deal as some would like to think.

It will straighten us up with run through the lines...which we've not had apart from Vince taking them on in the last couple of games.
Coz without it we dont risk take. If we dont risk take, we hesitate or go via the cape which gives the opposition time to rally.

 

[Angry_Crow]

I wonder whether we would've had this thread if we'd won by 13 points on Saturday night?? Everytime we lose a game it's something different, usually negative...'We need a big marking forward' or we need goal kicking practice - htis week it's about a small forward?? I personnaly think Richy Douglas is a gun and given another season will really cement that. I don't think it's that he is not a good crumbing forward but more so Craigy doesn't play him in that role full time. If he did Richy would be as good as Vardy already. On a lighter note how good was Gilly's pirouette/dummy and goal Saturday night?! Let's hope his legs can hold up this time!!

 

[aNty]

He went at 12. I think we rated him very very highly in terms of talent (I think Rendell said he was the most talented player he had seen or something) but there were question marks over his fitness and attitude. Apparently interviewed poorly with us.. so there would've been no point picking him if he didn't have the dedication to our football club.

Apparently he didn't want to move to Adelaide.

 

[Crowman32]

I would like to see Petrenko play as the crumbing forward in the future as well as in the midfield. From what ive seen of this player he really looks the good and its great that we have another player with pace to burn.

When i first saw Douglas play for Glenelg I honestly thought we had a great talent here but the more I see of him the more I now have doubts about him. I dont think his aerobic capacity is that good and his awareness around him is not flash either. In saying this im not writing him off and I honestly hope he proves me wrong.

 

[Zvim]

I'm surprised neither Port or the Crows picked up Lindsay Thomas, glad you didn't though. Campbell and Thomas are fantastic kids, 21 goals and 20 goals respectively from 13 games in their second year isn't too shabby.

 

[fightingdreamer88]

I would like to see Petrenko play as the crumbing forward in the future as well as in the midfield. From what ive seen of this player he really looks the good and its great that we have another player with pace to burn.

When i first saw Douglas play for Glenelg I honestly thought we had a great talent here but the more I see of him the more I now have doubts about him. I dont think his aerobic capacity is that good and his awareness around him is not flash either. In saying this im not writing him off and I honestly hope he proves me wrong.

Actually it's funny you mention that about Douglas. Drummond said something similar a while back; when we first drafted him there was all this talk about how he was the most "natural" footballer from the draft. When he first got here the signs were to that effect but as time has gone on he seems to have almost gone backwards in this area. I have no doubt he will make a career at AFL level but it will be very interesting to see if he can go one better and step up to match his billing in 2009.

 

[Crow-mo]

After watching the Crows go to Burton so much on Saturday night, and seeing the ball spill to ground so often, with nobody there to capitalise on it, it ocurred to me that the team is in real need of a small forward in the Davis, Rioli, Betts, Davey, Stokes, Thomas, Milne mould.

Not only would a player like this provide the extra dimension in terms of goal kicking, but also real quickness in chasing down the opposition defenders, as Hawthorn is enjoying this year and Essendon last year.

Would a player like this fit into the disciplined team structure?

our problem wasn't that we went to burton - though he's not big enough to be a permanent focal point - our problem was that we always went to burton when: 1. it was predictable 2. he was being well beaten.

why target a guy whose opponent is on top?

 

[Crow-mo]

I'd prefer he kicked two goals to get us over the line against a side, instead of kicking 5 goals against a shit team when the result was already decided.

this is just not true.

Welsh would obviously benefit from Kurt playing, but Welsh is gone now, so get over it.

that however is true.

 

[Crow-mo]

I thought he went at 8 ?

no. he was available

 

[fightingdreamer88]

our problem wasn't that we went to burton - though he's not big enough to be a permanent focal point - our problem was that we always went to burton when: 1. it was predictable 2. he was being well beaten.

why target a guy whose opponent is on top?

We couldn't target anyone effectively as it was. Skills by foot were horrific all night.

 

[Blue Red and Gold]

Actually it's funny you mention that about Douglas. Drummond said something similar a while back; when we first drafted him there was all this talk about how he was the most "natural" footballer from the draft. When he first got here the signs were to that effect but as time has gone on he seems to have almost gone backwards in this area. I have no doubt he will make a career at AFL level but it will be very interesting to see if he can go one better and step up to match his billing in 2009.

I actually think Douglas has been very good this year, I thought he might of shut some of doubters up actually.

Im suprised he is still being maligned, am I being too lenient? Or are other people expecting too much?

 

[RoosterLad]

I'm surprised neither Port or the Crows picked up Lindsay Thomas, glad you didn't though. Campbell and Thomas are fantastic kids, 21 goals and 20 goals respectively from 13 games in their second year isn't too shabby.

Matty Campbell is a star, please give him to us.

 

[Zvim]

Matty Campbell is a star, please give him to us.

Hehe, I love them both. Both are from SA so I hope they don't have the go home factor, always a concern. Hopefully both boys are locked away long-term, we are starting to sign up the good young players to avoid new team dramas.

 

[ruscy002]

Well we could of had Rioli!

Not worried about taking Danger over Rioli just yet. We're due for a first rounder to pay off big time, really hope its him. Things look like they're starting to turn around over the last 2 drafts though, hopefully Craigy's genius has filtered through to recruitment

Anyhoo, it seems that we just don't rate small forwards (since the Bond/Vardy glory days) and/or think they grow on trees. Regardless, recruitment is such a time and place thing, and I personally don't know the half of it, but it can't be easy, so I wont bash Fanta too much. He did have gems but as we all know, hardly any we're 1st rounders.

As far as "could'ves" are concerned (regarding taking duds over excellent small forward/midfield type players, if I considered all player types this would take me a week to do), my all time favourites are:

Could've had Matty Stokes instead of Alan Obst in 2005 (painful)

Could've had Angus Monfries instead of John Meesen in 2004 (most painful)

Could've had Amon Buchanan instead of Fergus Watts in 2003

Could've had Daniel Wells or Anthony Corrie instead of Carey in 2002 (in fairness, how we're we to this would've pay off!?)

We got it so wrong in 2001 and 2000 that I don't know where to start. If it weren't for 5th round pick of the century in 2000 (Johncock) and Reilly in 2001's "Superdraft" (I like him, so I wont mention who we could've had instead of him, not talking about Dal Santo either...) then we'd have nothing for two whole drafts.

Then again, we aren't the geniuses who in the year of the superdraft traded picks 1, 20 and 36 for Trent Croad, only to trade him back to the Hawks 2 years later, yielding them Ryley Dunn from pick 10 Onya Freo

A quick look at the players they've traded or delisted over the years (not to mention they players they've traded for...) shows that our recruitment process aint that bad afterall:
Andrew McLeod
Jeff Farmer (returned later)
Phil Matera
Peter Bell (returned later)
Jeff White
Matthew Burton
Whinston Abraham
Brodie Holland
James Clement
Jess Sinclair
Heath Black (returned later)
Leigh Brown
Adam McPhee
Trent Croad
Troy Simmonds
Graham Polak
Paul Medhurst

Throw in Brad Wirra and that's 4 players (that I know of anyway) who they've got rid of and brought back...their recruitment process is a shambles

 

[Zvim]

Could've had Matty Stokes instead of Alan Obst in 2005 (painful)

Out of curiosity, why was he dumped? We picked him up as a rookie at the end of last year and we elevated him for long-term injuries after some good VFL form, he has been pretty good despite puncturing his lung in his first game.

 

[Mismatched]

Out of curiosity, why was he dumped? We picked him up as a rookie at the end of last year and we elevated him for long-term injuries after some good VFL form, he has been pretty good despite puncturing his lung in his first game.

Hadn't shown a lot in his first year and with the '06 superdraft coming up we chose to go for an extra pick, probably unlucky since Jericho didn't play a match that year and most would have had him as first in the delist pile.

As for the OP, our lack of a dedicated small forward has killed us for years, in '06 Bode did very well, but apart from that we've been lacking since Vardy left. Skipworth and Ladhams showed potential and Mcleod and Johncock can pinch hit, but we definitely need someone up there. Douglas at times has been very good and contrary to some posts is actually an excellent shot on goal IMO, just had the one bad match against Essendon, also applies pretty decent defensive pressure, but he's being groomed for the midfield and is not a long term option really.

Enter Jacky, who unfortunately has struggled so far to adapt to the pace of AFL, but if the clubs reports are anything to go by he will be the answer. We are trying to fix the problem, unfortunately, like the dominant CHF issue, it will take time, we have the players developing, they are just not ready.

 

[jut666]

From what I've seen the last few weeks,one of our major flaws is having Tippett too deep in the goal square.Remember in the pre-season and the early rounds he wasn't afraid to come out to 30 metres out for a contested mark.Douglas is a great small forward option,proven with his quick lead and mark against Carlton,and his evasiveness good enough to snap some great goals.He major flaw I've seen is his awareness,but having played footy myself,you would expect some team mates there to let him know he's hot! Jacky definately needs some time in the gym,his frame is way too small at the moment..off the topic,I would like to see Tippett and Maric in the ruck while Griff is under an injury cloud,and how about giving Texas a run? He seems to be adapting quite quickly and his physique didnt look too bad from what the paper showed the other day.Sellar is still a long way off I'm afraid.

 

[King Elvis]

Yep, Kurt is anchored too much in the goalsquare, I seriously want to see him roam around a little and create more room.

Also, on the small forward, do you think we've treated it as an after-thought in the past, as in we've just thrown a resting mid down there?

I think, in this day and age, a small forward is a specialist position, and needs to be recruited for and treated as such.

 

[Coopers]

I don't see that just putting a "crumbing forward" into the team will solve anything.

The problem is that we had no players at the fall of the ball - none at all.

So a crumbing forward type - the bloke might do what exactly? More cleanly grab a ball and make a snap shot? Sure, might be a bit better at that particular move than say, one of our midfielders - but he needs to be in the right spot. And that's our problem, noone in the right spot.

The problem is we don't have anyone playing the role - just puttting a specialist in won't solve that problem - it's a gameplan/positioning issue I think.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I don't see that just putting a "crumbing forward" into the team will solve anything.

The problem is that we had no players at the fall of the ball - none at all.

So a crumbing forward type - the bloke might do what exactly? More cleanly grab a ball and make a snap shot? Sure, might be a bit better at that particular move than say, one of our midfielders - but he needs to be in the right spot. And that's our problem, noone in the right spot.

The problem is we don't have anyone playing the role - just puttting a specialist in won't solve that problem - it's a gameplan/positioning issue I think.

With Tippett up forward though we are setting up a structure whereby a specialist small forward can have an impact. Agree though that if we are simply trying to hit leading forwards all the time then the addition of a small forward is of little value.

In general I think the skills exhibited by the genuine small forwards of the competition are under-rated. Remember, the majority of their possessions are earned under duress, due to flooding they are usually out-numbered at the drop of the ball and if you are clean with your forward entries and your forwards are taking marks then you have nothing to do.

Too often these players are written off as hot and cold goal sneaks/____s which, by the nature of the position, they have to be.

 

[johnnypanther]

With Tippett up forward though we are setting up a structure whereby a specialist small forward can have an impact. Agree though that if we are simply trying to hit leading forwards all the time then the addition of a small forward is of little value.

In general I think the skills exhibited by the genuine small forwards of the competition are under-rated. Remember, the majority of their possessions are earned under duress, due to flooding they are usually out-numbered at the drop of the ball and if you are clean with your forward entries and your forwards are taking marks then you have nothing to do.

Too often these players are written off as hot and cold goal sneaks/____s which, by the nature of the position, they have to be.

But I dont think that we have any of those currently on our list
- Jacky i see as more of a midfielder type
- Petrenko as a straight ahead running type (BP, HBF, Wing)
- Douglas (HBF,midfielder resting forward but not a true crumber as above)
- Johncock (a mixture of Petrenko & Douglas)

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

But I dont think that we have any of those currently on our list
- Jacky i see as more of a midfielder type
- Petrenko as a straight ahead running type (BP, HBF, Wing)
- Douglas (HBF,midfielder resting forward but not a true crumber as above)
- Johncock (a mixture of Petrenko & Douglas)

I don't know. The little I've seen of Jacky indicates that he is pretty well suited to the small forward role. However you're right that the depth in this area isn't great. If you had to pick a player-type to trade for you'd think this would be it.