Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
So their culture was garbage but improved when Martin and Riewoldt were in their prime. Exactly my point.
Adrian Dodoro: Football’s Biggest Fraud IMO
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So their culture was garbage but improved when Martin and Riewoldt were in their prime. Exactly my point.
- Apr 23, 2016
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I feel like you're arguing that coaching, development and conditioning are completely irrelevant.
Might as well fire everyone and just keep Dodoro then.
Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
Do you think a team full of 22 Will Snellings with the best coaching, development and conditioning would beat a team full of first year Dustin Martins? of course not.
Without the right potential end products, all the best coaching, development and conditioning won't equal premierships.
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Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
Absurd.
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It's really not, if you've watched modern football you'd see how important system and work-rate is.
22 x developed and coached Snellings against 22 x 18yo Dusty's with no coaching and development?
You're having a laugh if you think it'd even be close.
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The only mention he'll get is when this thread gets bumped
Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
I didn't say no coaching or development I said a first year player.
Work rate... Martin averaged 3 more disposals in his first year than Snelling has ever done and Martin was playing mostly half forward that year too. The guy was breaking tackles of men much bigger than Snelling in his first year.
It is absolute absurd to suggest genetics are irrelevant. The guy at 18 was stronger, faster, more skilled than Snelling is at 24 and all the experience in the world wouldn't change the fact that Snelling wouldn't win a aerial contest or a sprint.
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Prime-age Snellings against 18yo Martins with 1 preseason and limited AFL level coaching, same outcome.
You're drastically underestimating the importance of conditioning and coaching. Team Snelling would run team 18yo Dusty off their feet, would be significantly better setup across the field, and more disciplined in their structure to force turnovers, capitalise on turnovers, and generate repeat i50s.
Hell prime Dusty barely defends, let alone the less well conditioned 18yo half-forward version, whereas Snelling is as team-oriented and hard-working as anyone, and has never played as a ball hunting player at AFL level.
This is a truly bizarre line of argument, you'd have to literally have not watched football for the last decade to be trying to argue this one. And this is comparing Martin as a Pick #3 with a Snelling who was de-listed then picked up in the midyear draft.
A superstar team beats a team of superstars in the modern era.
This thread is their hobby. That is the problem.
Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
You know there are physical advantages that can't be overcome but you're just obfuscating. You even suggest Prime Dusty doesn't defend therefore the more developed Snelling should be able to beat him in his prime too then correct?
No point continuing if you aren't going to live in reality.
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What reality?
The one where we've seen time and again over the last decade that the better coached and developed team consistently wins football?
Hell look at Essendon 2020 vs 2021. The 2021 list was less talented but a better team, because it was better coached.
Coaching and development is huge. I honestly can't believe you've wasted two pages trying to argue otherwise.
Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
All teams have similar messaging, similar quality coaching. Methodology changes a little based on list. The difference is the quality of player to execute the messaging. No coincidence the best coached teams, happen to have the most dominant goal kicking inside midfielders in the competition.
Lets cut to it. Why do Zach Merrett and Darcy Parish win less contested ball than Petracca and Oliver with the same time frame of physical development and position?
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They really don't.
Do you watch football, or just read the stats after the game?
Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
Good one. It’s rubbish though, all variations of handball preference, contested or uncontested and where/when you try to generate plus ones? You think Alastair Clarksons quality changed or was it the list?
But you didn’t answer the question. Why do Parish and Merrett win less contested ball than Petracca and Oliver?
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You don't think Clarkson was a significantly better coach who had an enormous impact on the playing group compared to say, Mark Neeld?
I think he has done an excellent job over the last few drafts and Essendon are certainly tracking very well. Like all recruiters, list managers and the like he has made a few mistakes. I also think, just like Carlton, he has suffered from too much interference from others at the club and perhaps his quite stellar results over the last few years means that he is getting the job done without outside interference. I don't blame list managers, recruiters for the failure of recruits. That is too easy and success or otherwise is a whole club approach.
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Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
Had Mark Neeld had Clarksons list he wouldn’t be viewed as a joke.
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Why bother even having a coach then, they're all the same. Might as well just have Heppell as a captain-coach and turf the assistants.
Or.
Coaches matter.
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Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
What the difference between the Bomber, Hardwick and Goodwins that were about to be sacked and the ones that won flags? They went from being the worst coaches in the competition to the best overnight? Means there isn’t much in between.
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Seriously, this is an absolutely horrible line of argument you're running with. Can we agree that you place no value whatsoever on coaching, and move on?
Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
When you answer why Merrett and Parish win less contested ball than Oliver and Petracca?
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They're different players, this doesn't somehow prove what you think it proves.
Why does Parish win more clearances than Oliver and Petracca?
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