Multiplat AFL 23 - Part 2 with added Pro Team

[Kidneykid95]

Seems like patch notes are out already .. not sure how to feel about it.. thoughts??

ITS GONE LIVE ALSO! Just got it on PS5 = 1.7GB

 

[GoldbergsGold]

hi everyone

deliberately took a break from here because of the disappointment of the release and the potential to completely screw up future releases and development of a afl video game

i remember back when ross announced that big ant was taking over development, that this was going to be a long partnership with the afl, a ground up dev approach and that it had so much potential to continue development and improve the game over new releases (afl24, afl25 etc. )

now i’m back and the s**t storm of the apparent cash grab rush and deploy approach has subsided…. where are we at?

did ross provide a debrief of what took place? will there ever be another afl game again?

he blocked me on twitter so i can’t even have a conversation with him

It seems he told lies about the game, that there was a proper functioning version over at their studio, so then why didn't they upload that, after the botched release? They continued to develop the game past release, but they gave up, months ago. The last piece of news is that they're doing irrelevant facescanning for a 2024 update, which makes no sense, since they're wasting time, labour and money on something that doesn't fix the major problem - the gameplay.

 

[FearTheBeard13]

did ross provide a debrief of what took place?

LOL if anyone thinks this will ever seriously happen, much less with an ounce of truth in it

 

[GoldbergsGold]

Another thing that confuses me, if they had coaches as technical advisers, why didn't they tell them that they had all their gameplay mechanics all wrong and question why there's barely any tactical customization? You can't customize player zones, generate super-floods or give players specific instructions. That's on top of how unrealistic and barebones all the contested play is. A 20 year old American football game even has far more tactical and positional customization.

 

[Freo16]

Another thing that confuses me, if they had coaches as technical advisers, why didn't they tell them that they had all their gameplay mechanics all wrong and question why there's barely any tactical customization? You can't customize player zones, generate super-floods or give players specific instructions. That's on top of how unrealistic and barebones all the contested play is. A 20 year old American football game even has far more tactical and positional customization.

That “20 year old” game was also the 15th entry in that series over 15 years.
It took WW 5 entries before they even had any tactical options.
Of all the criticisms levelled at AFL 23 this one makes no sense, you’re kidding yourself if you honestly expected in-depth tactical options, gang tackling, pack marking etc. in the first game.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

That “20 year old” game was also the 15th entry in that series over 15 years.
It took WW 5 entries before they even had any tactical options.
Of all the criticisms levelled at AFL 23 this one makes no sense, you’re kidding yourself if you honestly expected in-depth tactical options, gang tackling, pack marking etc. in the first game.

Second AFL game you mean (in before you say first new base game) with experience with Rugby League games that had more advanced tackling. Big Ant criticized Wicked Witch for doing the bare minimum, which is what Big Ant would end up doing with 23, if not much less.

 

[Freo16]

Second AFL game you mean (in before you say first new base game) with experience with Rugby League games that had more advanced tackling. Big Ant criticized Wicked Witch for doing the bare minimum, which is what Big Ant would end up doing with 23, if not much less.

Live 1 came out almost 13 years ago, it’s clearly not the same game and probably a largely different team of devs. WW had 4 or 5 consecutive releases and only got as far as Evo 2, if you’re being unbiased it’s pretty clear that 23 has a better gameplay base than every WW game other than maybe Evo 2.

You don’t know anything about game dev if you think they can just take the tackling from their rugby league games and put it in AFL 23, it’s a completely different system.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

Live 1 came out almost 13 years ago, it’s clearly not the same game and probably a largely different team of devs. WW had 4 or 5 consecutive releases and only got as far as Evo 2, if you’re being unbiased it’s pretty clear that 23 has a better gameplay base than every WW game other than maybe Evo 2.

You don’t know anything about game dev if you think they can just take the tackling from their rugby league games and put it in AFL 23, it’s a completely different system.

Is that you Ross?

 

[Xtreme]

You don’t know anything about game dev if you think they can just take the tackling from their rugby league games and put it in AFL 23, it’s a completely different system.

funny thing about this is that a lot of the AI running plays looked lifted straight from a rugby formation (attack/defence running in a straight line side by side ). Hadn't seen that since the rugby games on the Mega Drive

 

[GoldbergsGold]

Live 1 came out almost 13 years ago, it’s clearly not the same game and probably a largely different team of devs. WW had 4 or 5 consecutive releases and only got as far as Evo 2, if you’re being unbiased it’s pretty clear that 23 has a better gameplay base than every WW game other than maybe Evo 2.

You don’t know anything about game dev if you think they can just take the tackling from their rugby league games and put it in AFL 23, it’s a completely different system.

Live 2011 out of the gate had far superior game design and movement, players were at least grounded and had weight to them. That was all on their first attempt, 12 years earlier than 23. You would think 12 years of advance technical advances, they'd have more tools at their disposal to do a far superior job, but they pretty much did below the bare minimum, excluding gameplay features from both Live 2011, and Evo 2, without any proper adaptation of contested play, with endless glitches, bugs and the user commands being completely broken, with animations skipping. They were continuing to develop the game even after release, with updates changing the game mechanics, which raises even more questions, making it really seem like the game was definitely unfinished and they rushed it out.

I know they wasted the time, labour and its budget on traveling out to stadiums, doing photogrammetry of players, not using an existing game engine like Wicked Witch did to give the programmers much more time to work on the gameplay, as per what one programmer had stated. I really couldn't say 23 is better than any other game, when those older AFL games at least got movement commands right, 23 and its movement commands are beyond atrocious, which they never entirely fixed, they just abandoned it, after small patches here and there.

 

[Freo16]

Live 2011 out of the gate had far superior game design and movement, players were at least grounded and had weight to them. That was all on their first attempt, 12 years earlier than 23. You would think 12 years of advance technical advances, they'd have more tools at their disposal to do a far superior job, but they pretty much did below the bare minimum, excluding gameplay features from both Live 2011, and Evo 2, without any proper adaptation of contested play, with endless glitches, bugs and the user commands being completely broken, with animations skipping. They were continuing to develop the game even after release, with updates changing the game mechanics, which raises even more questions, making it really seem like the game was definitely unfinished and they rushed it out.

I know they wasted the time, labour and its budget on traveling out to stadiums, doing photogrammetry of players, not using an existing game engine like Wicked Witch did to give the programmers much more time to work on the gameplay, as per what one programmer had stated. I really couldn't say 23 is better than any other game, when those older AFL games at least got movement commands right, 23 and its movement commands are beyond atrocious, which they never entirely fixed, they just abandoned it, after small patches here and there.

You’ve really gotta take off you’re rose coloured glasses off when it comes to Live 1, that game was simply pick up ball, get tackled over and over again.

No AFL game has done contested play well, Evo 2 has maybe been the best in that area but it wasn’t anything amazing.

23 is by far the best in terms of:

• set shots
• ruck contests
• short passes by foot
• smothering
• having to hold the player down in a tackle was great
• getting rid of the footy while being tackled and sometimes only having one hand free so you can only kick it
• bounce handballs
• run down/stripping the ball tackles
• raising the arms before getting tackled is also a great feature we’ve never had in an AFL game

The game has flaws and issues that need fixing, and it definitely has a long way to go to add extra layers to the gameplay but I’ve probably played the game more than most and even I’m still finding that if you try and play it like real football, there’s an incredible amount of complexity to the gameplay.

 

[Treehill23]

You’ve really gotta take off you’re rose coloured glasses off when it comes to Live 1, that game was simply pick up ball, get tackled over and over again.

No AFL game has done contested play well, Evo 2 has maybe been the best in that area but it wasn’t anything amazing.

23 is by far the best in terms of:

• set shots
• ruck contests
• short passes by foot
• smothering
• having to hold the player down in a tackle was great
• getting rid of the footy while being tackled and sometimes only having one hand free so you can only kick it
• bounce handballs
• run down/stripping the ball tackles
• raising the arms before getting tackled is also a great feature we’ve never had in an AFL game

The game has flaws and issues that need fixing, and it definitely has a long way to go to add extra layers to the gameplay but I’ve probably played the game more than most and even I’m still finding that if you try and play it like real football, there’s an incredible amount of complexity to the gameplay.

Bounce handballs ?
Since when was this a thing ?

 

[GoldbergsGold]

You’ve really gotta take off you’re rose coloured glasses off when it comes to Live 1, that game was simply pick up ball, get tackled over and over again.

You're describing 23, in Live 2011, you can take on a tackler and get your hand balls out, whereas in 23 you can get pinned instantaneously with the animation skipping to a finished tackle out of nowhere.

No AFL game has done contested play well, Evo 2 has maybe been the best in that area but it wasn’t anything amazing.

23 is by far the best in terms of:

• set shots

This has been a mess, they kept changing it after the game was out.

• ruck contests

It's the same as the others, but it's missing the hud the Evo games had.

• short passes by foot

It takes too long to power up the meter, it's quicker with sliders in Evo 2.

• smothering

This is one of the worst at smothering, Evo 2 had the best smothering because it was customizable, whereas in 23 a normal kick gets smothered 20 metres away.

The game has flaws and issues that need fixing, and it definitely has a long way to go to add extra layers to the gameplay but I’ve probably played the game more than most and even I’m still finding that if you try and play it like real football, there’s an incredible amount of complexity to the gameplay.

You objectively cannot play it like the real sport, because there's no tactical options to emulate the specific gameplays, and all you need to do is pump the ball inside 50 to an unrealistic 1v1 forced wrestle that mostly leads to a mark. That's a contrast to the way I have Evo 2 setup where it can be for example a big 6v6 mark contest with no one marking it most of the time, unless they're in a really good spot or uncontested.

 

[Freo16]

Bounce handballs ?
Since when was this a thing ?

It’s been there since day one, from memory it’s L1 + handball (on ps5)

You're describing 23, in Live 2011, you can take on a tackler and get your hand balls out, whereas in 23 you can get pinned instantaneously with the animation skipping to a finished tackle out of nowhere.

This has been a mess, they kept changing it after the game was out.

It's the same as the others, but it's missing the hud the Evo games had.

It takes too long to power up the meter, it's quicker with sliders in Evo 2.

This is one of the worst at smothering, Evo 2 had the best smothering because it was customizable, whereas in 23 a normal kick gets smothered 20 metres away.

You objectively cannot play it like the real sport, because there's no tactical options to emulate the specific gameplays, and all you need to do is pump the ball inside 50 to an unrealistic 1v1 forced wrestle that mostly leads to a mark. That's a contrast to the way I have Evo 2 setup where it can be for example a big 6v6 mark contest with no one marking it most of the time, unless they're in a really good spot or uncontested.

If you’re using fends, evades, arms up or even just dodging the tackler it’s pretty easy to keep the ball moving and as I said before, sometimes when being tackled you can get a handball away, other times you can only kick it.

They kept changing the set shot mechanic because of user feedback, that’s what you want a dev studio to do.

This post is all I need to know that you haven’t given the game an unbiased chance, the smothering and ruck work is by far the best we’ve ever had in an afl game, the smothering is context sensitive so your player will jump high or drop down low to smother depending on what the ball carrier is doing.
The ruck contests don’t need any hud or pointless meters because it works like a real ruck contest, you do what a ruckman does in real life, time it and use your body in around the ground contests.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

If you’re using fends, evades, arms up or even just dodging the tackler it’s pretty easy to keep the ball moving and as I said before, sometimes when being tackled you can get a handball away, other times you can only kick it.

The fending is nerfed, when you're instant pinned tackled out of nowhere with a skipped animation, just because you got 2 metres close to an opposition player.

They kept changing the set shot mechanic because of user feedback, that’s what you want a dev studio to do.

The set shots were broken at launch, they had to try and fix it like everything else. They used the fans as unpaid QA testers. It was as if they didn't even hire QA testers for the project, they claimed to be clueless at times about the obvious glaring issues.

This post is all I need to know that you haven’t given the game an unbiased chance

What do you mean "unbiased chance"? You can see my post on Big Ant's Bigfooty page cheerleading for them to make another AFL game in 2015, and loads of pre-2022 posts championing them to be the developer of AFL games. That's really inobservant to claim I'm "biased", when they failed to not only make the game function but to really step up and make a real innovative and functioning AFL game that they kept eluded to.

the smothering and ruck work is by far the best we’ve ever had in an afl game, the smothering is context sensitive so your player will jump high or drop down low to smother depending on what the ball carrier is doing.
The ruck contests don’t need any hud or pointless meters because it works like a real ruck contest

So then remove the cross hairs then for goal kicking because they don't exist in real life, too? Or, remove the hud telling you who has a free kick because that doesn't exist in real life? The huds were better in the Evo games, because it gave you more information about what was happening. 23 already does that, but it's more confusing because it doesn't even tell you which team has a free and so on.

And I was giving 23 a watch, today, with YouTubers playing, it's nothing but 1v1 marking contests that 90% end in marks. How is that good gameplay exactly? All you have to do it pump the ball inside 50 and time it right, press Y, and it's a mark and goal. There's no actual complex gameplay. That's a complete contrast to when I playing Evo 2, and I had to really place myself in the right spot, contested marking contests never really end in marks like with 23 always ending in marks, and players don't warp into each other like 23, they make actual contact like they're separate entities.

The game is just shockingly poorly planned, badly designed, and clearly underdeveloped. There's a few interesting ideas for the game mechanics, but it's just so nerfed that they're basically irrelevant. It really says a lot when they made a big deal out of the coin toss, but it was completely pointless because they didn't even have a wind meter for it until fans were hounding them for months to put one in.

 

[Mootsy]

I'm hoping they do a thorough gameplay testing and solution overhaul for the 24' update. Because the potential is there, it's definitely a car in need of a service. I'm not sure what happened last year, it all felt like a fever dream, lol and i don't think anyone actually wanted to see that happen, most of us are rooting for BA to do well, but i don't think BA did themselves any favours either. Even the most upbeat of us were watching on in shock at times. I hope they can turn it all around this year and i hope BA know that most of us want them to succeed with these games and to learn the lessons whilst also moving onwards, or moving forwards and in new directions.

I think a lot of us can see a great game there, but are waiting for that gameplay update that just refines everything and makes it more enjoyable and logical, irons out some of the glitchy gameplay. some of it seems simple.

• Tackling, opposition lays a tackle too quickly, in my opinion. Sometimes this works, but it could be better.
• Sliders, i know this may not be possible yet, but that'd be great.
• more fluidity of player/body movement, less stiff movement.
• AI looks a bit speedy in the F50, like they aren't moving around naturally. Could be better.
• Handballing did improve a bit, but could do with another look at.

I hope they do give it another go. They have a base game, an engine, good graphical presentation, modes that already exist. player, jersey, and stadium creator etc. It'd be maddening if they didn't, in my opinion.

Also, hoping for a Big Bash/Jam Session style AFL game, one day!

 

[GoldbergsGold]

I'm hoping they do a thorough gameplay testing and solution overhaul for the 24' update. Because the potential is there, it's definitely a car in need of a service. I'm not sure what happened last year, it all felt like a fever dream, lol and i don't think anyone actually wanted to see that happen, but i don't think BA did themselves any favours either. Even the most upbeat of us were watching on in shock at times. I hope they can turn it all around this year and i hope BA know that most of us want them to succeed with these games.

In retrospect and further examination, they have to not only make it function, which it should have from day 1, but they have to make it far more advanced than it being below the bare minimum. They could have made a really advanced footy game had they had real planning and made sensible decisions, instead of wasting the budget, labour and time on irrelevant stuff. But I don't know if they'll even continue, they can't really make a profit from these games.

 

[Mootsy]

In retrospect and further examination, they have to not only make it function, which it should have from day 1, but they have to make it far more advanced than it being below the bare minimum. They could have made a really advanced footy game had they had real planning and made sensible decisions, instead of wasting the budget, labour and time on irrelevant stuff. But I don't know if they'll even continue, they can't really make a profit from these games.

I mean, even if they came out and said, they're doing a 24' list update and a some small gameplay changes, just to iron out some things and make it run smooth, and they shoot for a 2025 major update, that'd be cool!

You might be right, they may just ditch the project as well.

Strange times.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

I mean, even if they came out and said, they're doing a 24' list update and a some small gameplay changes, just to iron out some things and make it run smooth, and they shoot for a 2025 major update, that'd be cool!

It'd still be too much of a "kick, mark, goal" game.

 

[Mootsy]

It'd still be too much of a "kick, mark, goal" game.

This wouldn't bother me too much if they can make it a bit more AFL Live 1 style. If they make it free flowing and fun, you can do "kick, mark, goal, tackle, bump etc" and make it arcade and still make it work. Incorporate an aesthetic that is joyous to play etc. maybe..but it needs more testing, i think.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

This wouldn't bother me too much if they can make it a bit more AFL Live 1 style. If they make it free flowing and fun, you can do "kick, mark, goal, tackle, bump etc" and make it arcade and still make it work. Incorporate an aesthetic that is joyous to play etc. maybe..

You could do a lot more intercepting in Live 2011, they should remove wrestling in 23 (unless they implemented it properly by making it optional and more advanced) and bring an option for multiple v multiple players at a marking contest, along with sliders. That way, it removes the "kick, mark, goal" stuff. Custom playbooks and custom formations would really get rid of that, too.

 

[Saintsation]

Is there a way to change player numbers inside the academy?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Bianconeri]

I've shelved AFL23 for a bit over the summer so I can go in fresh when the new season kicks in, but yeah that stuck in the mud and janky movement is still present and is one of my primary concerns with the game. If they can fix that, which I'm concerned with current resources would probably be too much work, the game would be much better off leading into the 2024 patch we're supposed to be getting. I still think they need to add more depth to the manager mode (ability to change clubs, injuries, suspensions, training etc.) but I assume their primary focus is going to be updated kits, fixtures, players and then Pro Team (?)

This still isn’t fixed?

 

[Bianconeri]

The fact that this game doesn’t even play like modern football and the game that Ross publicly shat on does is enough for me to never touch this game again even if they release ProTeam.
They need to rework the AI and positioning and I don’t imagine this is on their to-do list.
I just hope AFL 25 actually plays like the modern game

Funny how Ross was banging on about how they had all these assistant coaches in to help write the AI. They must really love early 2000’s footy

I wouldn’t go that far. Evo 2 with sliders is still a long way off modern football. The fact AFL 23 is making Evo 2 look like modern AFL and responsive says it all.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

This still isn’t fixed?

I think they've abandoned development, other than an upcoming "list update" they may even ask money for, lol.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

I wouldn’t go that far. Evo 2 with sliders is still a long way off modern football. The fact AFL 23 is making Evo 2 look like modern AFL and responsive says it all.

There wasn't any playbook or custom formation options in Evo 2, either, so you get the same repetitive "out the backdoor" goals. Evo 2 is just much better than 23 because it functions with user commands, players move where you want them to go, the kicking/hand ball meter is quick which is perfect, there's no kick, mark, goal stuff, marking can be set to really difficult. I felt the kicking and definitely hand balling was really good in Evo 2, whereas 23 it's a nightmare to control, handballing does not go far in 23.