It would have beeen SO much better if they'd made the G's capacity a bit over 100,000, so they could top the magical figure for the Granny every year, instead of it being 97, 98000.
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The capacity is 100,000, but thats 98,000 seats and 2,000 standing room, apparently.
Last year some guy from the MCG said they would not sell all the standing room tickets as it would be too crowded for the other patrons
They should've added a couple of thousand more seats.....who cares about it being an even 100k, make it 102, 103k.
The capacity is 100,000, but thats 98,000 seats and 2,000 standing room, apparently.
Last year some guy from the MCG said they would not sell all the standing room tickets as it would be too crowded for the other patrons
They should've added a couple of thousand more seats.....who cares about it being an even 100k, make it 102, 103k.
Exactly what I mean. Who cares if the 'official capacity' of the ground is 100K, unless the 'official Grand Final attendance' is always gunna be less than that! 100, 246 looks FAR better that 97,945.....
Father Jack
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- Mar 23, 2006
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*imagines traffic jam*
So instead they replaced it with a 'boutique' stadium with a third of that capacity.
In fairness to the AFL, how many games a year are realistically going to outdraw the 'boutique' stadiums in every given year?
A 160,000 capacity stadium would be ridiculous
Would it be logistically possible, given the location of Docklands, the traffic congestion and the fact that it’s got a roof?
I personally couldn’t see the Victorian Government passing a proposal that would have seen potentially an extra 20-30,000 more people using transport too and from the games.
Just goes to show how great this sport is and how much we love it
Which is why Kevin Bartlett and the ****ing rules committee should leave the ****ing game alone
So instead they replaced it with a 'boutique' stadium with a third of that capacity.
I was so excited at the prospect of Essendon moving to the Showgrounds, that would have been the shit (ie. very good)! We could have had a 60-70k stadium there which was home to Essendon, Footscray and North Melbourne, great location, train station right there, trams in various directions.
Wow, what would happen if we sold the game more in Europe or North America...I wonder
Surely we'd be Number 4 though. College Div 1 football in the US got something like 46,000 average in 2006! that puts it only @ #2 too its big brother the NFL. Damn those Americans love their football!
Surely we'd be Number 4 though. College Div 1 football in the US got something like 46,000 average in 2006! that puts it only @ #2 too its big brother the NFL. Damn those Americans love their football!
SOSBenny - Im stunned by people like more and more everyday. Every code, be it AFL, NFL, soccer, baseball seems to think that they would have success if they pushed their game in particular markets. What you said was wrong mate, sorry. AFL would be a nothing in the States. Soccer, with 300 million registered players in the world, has ALOT of trouble breaking into a country where football/baseball is so heavily imprinted into the psyche...basketball a tad behind.
I dont believe the AFL could ever have a professional Aussie Rules league in the states - and I mean professional. Is it surprising that people who think their preferred code is the best...are incidentally born where the code is dominant?
The real question you should be asking is, imagine if people grew up with Aussie Rules. You cant have someone grow up on NFL...then show them Aussie Rules, and expect them to dedicate their team and support to it. You might get 1 or 2 odd ones, but the majority will stick with what they know and love.
While I dont think the AFL has much international potential, as good a sport as it is, I also wonder what the global sproting landscape would look like if everyone around the world grew up on the same set of sports.
Also, if you have personal experience with the sport, as in having played it for example at an early age...that also is a key factor in what success a league may garner, which is why participation rates are so carefully watched - apart from ofcourse finding talent to fill up a league.
I think Ive missed something, but Ill leave it there.
I dont believe the AFL could ever have a professional Aussie Rules league in the states - and I mean professional. Is it surprising that people who think their preferred code is the best...are incidentally born where the code is dominant?
The real question you should be asking is, imagine if people grew up with Aussie Rules. You cant have someone grow up on NFL...then show them Aussie Rules, and expect them to dedicate their team and support to it. You might get 1 or 2 odd ones, but the majority will stick with what they know and love.
While I dont think the AFL has much international potential, as good a sport as it is, I also wonder what the global sproting landscape would look like if everyone around the world grew up on the same set of sports.
Also, if you have personal experience with the sport, as in having played it for example at an early age...that also is a key factor in what success a league may garner, which is why participation rates are so carefully watched - apart from ofcourse finding talent to fill up a league.
I think Ive missed something, but Ill leave it there.
I like the cut of your jibe, MVFC_NMFC
I've had to refrain from preaching the virtues of aussie rules to Poms in the last few weeks, as my excitement during September boils over. I just tell them they don't know what they're missing out on and leave it at that. The perception over here is that aussie rules is utterly violent - "an organised brawl" as 1 of my football ("soccer") team mates said to me last week.
I'm convinced that aussie rules will sadly NEVER penetrate the English market... nor any other foreign market I dsaresay. As you say, the national psyche is too deeply imprinted with the code they're raised on. Aussie rules finals don't even get a run ahead of NRL finals on Setanta sports here.
Yeah exactly. Its not surprising though that you have Brits coming over...or Australia going over there, who eventually take to the local game with time. Once you're in the environment for a long period of time, you are a lot more likely to get acquainted with the game, and develop the understanding and nature of the game to be able to enjoy it. Otherwise, if you're having arguments over the internet with Yanks about Aussie Rules being tougher than NFL or whatnot, you're not going to get anywhere.
It happened to me, I was raised of soccer, and I hear people say.."its boring" Im looking at the game and trying to understand why they think its boring, because Ive played it for 18 years, followed it passionately etc etc that my view is subjective in many ways. But coming to a market where Aussie Rules is dominant, it took me about 4 years to develop a real appreciation for what Aussie Rules is about. At first I looked it at, and laughed. But its a whole different story, and its now ofcourse one of my 3 favourite sports, and I cant split the winner between them, and I wouldnt have it any other way. Although haha I wish I didnt follow 3 sports so much, it makes it really hard to keep up with everything.
- Banned
- #268
What a lot of what you said is basically true .
However that underestimates the North Amerciacn situation .
The USA market has some qualifications with it .
The AFL has never Aussie Rules pushed in the USA .
Aussie Rules took off in the 90s due to prominance on Pay TV .
With the switch to mainstream sports on Pay TV Aussie Rules has had to work much harder and it's ingenious the approach that Americans have taken to advance our game which fills a bit of a sporting vacuum in the community sports arena . Whilst Australian Football wont rival NFL it could become semi-pro or professional . The USAFL has four major leagues and national championships . It wouldn't take much to convert to regional play offs and a national league or a North Amercan league with the even stronger Canadians . The amount of business in the USAFL is quite staggering and it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to see American business funding a professional national league with teams drawing current soccer or AFL(Arena Football League)size crowds . USAFL teams have actually played in front of these crowds as an experiment and have generated profitable interest .
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cos789 - Its not entirely impossible. However, like everything, it would take a long time to fully integrate itself. The reason why AFL (Arena Football League) and the Major League Soccer have done "ok" (and I mean that in the nicest possible way) is that there have been for a long time exisiting fans of soccer, and in respects to Arena football, the transition isn't hard to make if you're a fan of the NFL - but I can assure you right now that a large majority of American football-mad people see Arena football as a mere joke. So while they are always looking for new fans, its established enough to have some sort of league going on in there.
With your suggestion, you would essentially need to see the game of Aussie Rules played around the streets, at school etc. If you were to try and assembly some sort of league, it would need to happen after its become a sport that kids can play. That might sound stupid, but you got to take into account that with soccer in the US, there are roughly 18 million people who play it, and even with all that, they havent been able to take advantage of the sheer size of people who play it.
I know for a fact that soccer is still having difficulty of having younger kids continuing to play the sport. A lot of the time, you'll have your typical soccer mum scenario, and the kids would grow up, and jump ship because the country revolves around baseball/basketball/football, whereas a career in soccer still isnt taken seriously by a lot of athletes going into college etc.
The media thing doesnt help either. Sports which are not originally believed to be from the US, dont do well. I even remember reading about how cricket was at the cusp of kicking off in US in the early 1900s I think, but something happened and baseball broke out. Its hard to deny that foreign sports dont make the greatest of impacts in the US, and soccer is an example.
Not to be exaggerating, but if they were to start a league now, I dont think it would be viable at all, because there is no supporter base there (and as I said this is why essentially the MLS and Arena football do have some sort of base to work with). And as ash_78 and I said, a sport that we think is fantastic, tough, fast, and has no chance of failing in a foreign market because its attractive...may not, and probably will not resonate with other people who have been brought up basically to think otherwise.
In my mind, concentrating on Australia is what AFL should continue to do, and not to look past that. NFL did it with NFL Europa, which was canned just this year because the NFL lost too much money from it. I certainly dont wish to see money wasted on overseas ventures. Make sure all clubs are profitable, the league is profitable, and since this thread is about attendance, keep growing the crowd numbers each year.
With your suggestion, you would essentially need to see the game of Aussie Rules played around the streets, at school etc. If you were to try and assembly some sort of league, it would need to happen after its become a sport that kids can play. That might sound stupid, but you got to take into account that with soccer in the US, there are roughly 18 million people who play it, and even with all that, they havent been able to take advantage of the sheer size of people who play it.
I know for a fact that soccer is still having difficulty of having younger kids continuing to play the sport. A lot of the time, you'll have your typical soccer mum scenario, and the kids would grow up, and jump ship because the country revolves around baseball/basketball/football, whereas a career in soccer still isnt taken seriously by a lot of athletes going into college etc.
The media thing doesnt help either. Sports which are not originally believed to be from the US, dont do well. I even remember reading about how cricket was at the cusp of kicking off in US in the early 1900s I think, but something happened and baseball broke out. Its hard to deny that foreign sports dont make the greatest of impacts in the US, and soccer is an example.
Not to be exaggerating, but if they were to start a league now, I dont think it would be viable at all, because there is no supporter base there (and as I said this is why essentially the MLS and Arena football do have some sort of base to work with). And as ash_78 and I said, a sport that we think is fantastic, tough, fast, and has no chance of failing in a foreign market because its attractive...may not, and probably will not resonate with other people who have been brought up basically to think otherwise.
In my mind, concentrating on Australia is what AFL should continue to do, and not to look past that. NFL did it with NFL Europa, which was canned just this year because the NFL lost too much money from it. I certainly dont wish to see money wasted on overseas ventures. Make sure all clubs are profitable, the league is profitable, and since this thread is about attendance, keep growing the crowd numbers each year.
just on crowd sizes for soccer, in italy they don't get huge crowds cause it is quite expensive to go to the game. most of the money for their league comes from sponsorship and tv rights.
Also many of the large english clubs have big stadiums(50k+), and a waiting list to even get a membership, while heaps(70ish%) have stadiums that are much smaller. Its like if footy in Melbourne never went away from grounds like Princess Park, Windy Hill, Vic Park and Glenferrie Oval etc.
In London soccer is a real tribal type thing and their really is a home ground advantage, while in AFL their is a home state advantage. In AFL their is bigger crowds, but in soccer their is a real home suburban feeling, which has somewhat been lost in AFL footy.
Also many of the large english clubs have big stadiums(50k+), and a waiting list to even get a membership, while heaps(70ish%) have stadiums that are much smaller. Its like if footy in Melbourne never went away from grounds like Princess Park, Windy Hill, Vic Park and Glenferrie Oval etc.
In London soccer is a real tribal type thing and their really is a home ground advantage, while in AFL their is a home state advantage. In AFL their is bigger crowds, but in soccer their is a real home suburban feeling, which has somewhat been lost in AFL footy.
Mikey thats true, but also remember you can go from London to Newcastle in 3 hours by train. Away support would be much bigger here in Australia if grounds were that accessible all over the country.
But you're right about the waiting lists. Not to mention, people have to take into account the sheer number of teams in England. If they had one or two per city, there wouldn't be a ground under 40k capacity. Liverpool, Everton, and Portsmouth all have new stadiums to be built, and when that happens, I think it will make a nice little jump in average attendance.
Not only that, but English Premier League average attendance any given year can have a difference of 3,000. The reason is for example last year, which is the latest data, had Watford and Charlton. Watfords ground is tiny, and Charltons is about 20k odd. Now that they are relegated, you have Sunderland and Derby...thats a 50k stadium, and Derbys is 35,000 I think, and Birminghams is pretty big aswell. So a dramatic change.
But you're right about the waiting lists. Not to mention, people have to take into account the sheer number of teams in England. If they had one or two per city, there wouldn't be a ground under 40k capacity. Liverpool, Everton, and Portsmouth all have new stadiums to be built, and when that happens, I think it will make a nice little jump in average attendance.
Not only that, but English Premier League average attendance any given year can have a difference of 3,000. The reason is for example last year, which is the latest data, had Watford and Charlton. Watfords ground is tiny, and Charltons is about 20k odd. Now that they are relegated, you have Sunderland and Derby...thats a 50k stadium, and Derbys is 35,000 I think, and Birminghams is pretty big aswell. So a dramatic change.
- Banned
- #272
Well with the exception of the RSA and the Irish thing the AFL is doing just that . Where Aussie Rules has developed O/S has almost entirely been due to individuals other than the AFL .
Again I basically agree with your points with qualifications .
A North Amercican League is viable at the moment . All it takes is for regional playoffs to take the place of the current national championships which would involve a little more travel but no extra during the season .Having said that it would be still like it is today an amateur league . A national league would be stepping stone for more media attention . It would take a number of rather fortuitous events to happen , but it could happen . And if it did happen it would be like starting an ice hockey league in Australian - interesting but strange . You dont have to have the weight of soccer numbers to have some success . North America is like Australia in that respect , junior numbers don't translate to senior competitions , but you do need some junior interest and participation .Auskick has been a hugely successful vehicle in doing this where ever it's been introduced . If the junior competition in Vancouver could be replicated by the other North american clubs then you'd be well under way . Attempts at this have been strangled through lack of instructors .The USAFL has a number of college teams and is looking to set up more . Again this would be a huge boost if the colleges had our game on their books . There also exists more forms of Australian Football in the USA than Australia .!1
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Yeah true spot on with most of that, and like I said its not entirely impossible, the only thing that people would have to remember is you cant have overnight success, and too many people are quick to put down something which doesnt capture the hearts and minds of everyone so quickly. Look at the Swans, its taken them a long long time to garner up support in Sydney in a market where League is number 1, to average solid crowds. Not to mention the AFL itself, its had a long time to average 37k, and it wasnt always like that. Persistance and time are the two main things that would go a long way into making a US league possible.
- Banned
- #274
In Australia there have been many examples of that ; American Football , basketball , the Glory and Reds in Perth .O/S the best performing leagues are the leagues where success has come from hard work , like Denmark where it's league led to the Swedish and Finnish leagues and strengthened Germany , whilst the UK league is only now gaining momentum despite have the biggest influx of ready made Australian players . Ireland came from nearly nothing to world champions in two years but has done nothing since .If the USA was to get some more of the AFL exposure it had in the 90s then the impetus would be much greater now than then .
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Here is the link to the EPL's attendances;
http://www.soccerstats.com/2khcrowd.asp?league=england&homeaway=3
......also if you go to *ALL Leagues* up the top in the drop down it has many other European league including the English Championship, which have a few teams averaging over 20,000.
And just on that link, the far right hand column has the %Full which just shows how packed most of these stadium get.
Man Utd
Liverpool
Arsenal
Newcastle
Chelsea
Tottenham
West Ham.....all their stadium have been 95%+ full for the start of this season.
Seven teams averaging over 40,000, and i'd say most, if they had a bigger stadium would fill it each and every week.
Liverpool wouldeasily fill a 70-80k stadium, Man Utd would easily fill over 90k (current 75k), Chelsea over 65k, Arsenal over 70k..
This is why the German Bundesliga has a higher average attendance then the EPL, they have a few more larger capacity stadiums then England (+ over 30 million more people).
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