Recruiting AFL Draft Watch 2022 - Tsatas, Hayes, Davey x2, Munkara & Montgomerie

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[ant555]

Parish will have to change or he wont play. That has to be the message to him. Even you have admitted this, Truck allowed Parish to play the way he plays.

Whatever. Yeah Truck let him play this year. Maybe if you think about it a bit deeper you will understand.
It is not that hard to work it out. Coach is under pressure for results. The side starts like crap and the injuries are coming in every week and you think he is going to be dropping one of his best players and bring in Tom Hird to play midfield ? And yes I said Parish is one of our best players which is a major part of our problem.
AFL coaches do not drop their better players. It is that simple. Scott never did it at North.

 

[Bjchan13]

Whatever. Yeah Truck let him play this year. Maybe if you think about it a bit deeper you will understand.
It is not that hard to work it out. Coach is under pressure for results. The side starts like crap and the injuries are coming in every week and you think he is going to be dropping one of his best players and bring in Tom Hird to play midfield ? And yes I said Parish is one of our best players which is a major part of our problem.
AFL coaches do not drop their better players. It is that simple. Scott never did it at North.

When did i ever mention Tom Hird? He dropped Shiel. He played Perkins and Caldwell forward and he also dropped Hobbs. There were options to try and turn Darcys game, take him out of the midfield and he didn't take them. It actually doesnt even make sense that you say 'its because he was under pressure for results' if what Darcy did all year wasnt helping the team win in Trucks opinion. Either Truck rates him and let him do it or he doesn't rate him and moves him out.

 

[ant555]

Like I said when I bought this up, it will be a philosophical difference and won’t be popular.

It’s also gone beyond the pale of the original point I was making which is you don’t jump at shadows with a top 5 selection because of a problem that hopefully wont exist in 18 months time anyway.

Cats prepare their players better than anyone, Dangerfield basically cannot open his mouth without crediting their high performance staff and the high base that they build that allows their players to step in and out without missing a beat.

Yet they still have injuries. Could not get Cockatoo on the field. They also have had the best in the game drafting their players for the last 20 plus years. And guess what. They pick leaders. They will take slightly left field selections. There is a culture that has been carried on.

My point is your point needs a rethink. It is not jumping at shadows but actually doing what a few other clubs have and that is rate leadership and hard edge about just picking who you think is the best player.

How is it not going to be an issue in 18 months. Please do explain where we are going to get the leadership needed to drive it on field within 18 months ? And do not give me current players. If any of them where good leaders then we would not have the issues we have.

 

[Howard Moon]

Does the rumour about Geelong meeting Jayden three times wreck our perfect draft points plan?

 

[ant555]

When did i ever mention Tom Hird? He dropped Shiel. He played Perkins and Caldwell forward and he also dropped Hobbs. There were options to try and turn Darcys game, take him out of the midfield and he didn't take them. It actually doesnt even make sense that you say 'its because he was under pressure for results' if what Darcy did all year wasnt helping the team win in Trucks opinion. Either Truck rates him and let him do it or he doesn't rate him and moves him out.

I mentioned Hird as an example of what was left. I suspect he may well have dropped Parish but he got injured as well. Shiel got dropped as he was worse than Parish. Parish kept trying in offence. Shiel just gave up for a while. Hobbs got left out late when he was pretty much cooked and being a first year player they where never going to push him too far. Plus all they guys mentioned where playing anyway.
It makes perfect sense to say he was under pressure for results so he was sticking with the bloke who produced offensive results last year.
I will say it again. AFL coaches do not just drop their best players even if they have an issue which is part of the problem. I am not defending Truck here. I am just saying how it is for AFL coaches. It is not as simplistic as your view despite most punters on the other side of the fence thinking so.
If you think Truck dropping Parish would not have caused issues then you have no real idea about coaching and the pressure he was under this year from external sources.
Truck ended up not being able to sell the message this year which is his failure but a continual steam of midfield injures hurt. You can not build selection pressure if those under are not playing midfield in the VFL. It is a different situation for a premiership winning coach compared to young coach under pressure to win games.

 

[faible]

I mentioned Hird as an example of what was left. I suspect he may well have dropped Parish but he got injured as well. Shiel got dropped as he was worse than Parish. Parish kept trying in offence. Shiel just gave up for a while. Hobbs got left out late when he was pretty much cooked and being a first year player they where never going to push him too far. Plus all they guys mentioned where playing anyway.
It makes perfect sense to say he was under pressure for results so he was sticking with the bloke who produced offensive results last year.
I will say it again. AFL coaches do not just drop their best players even if they have an issue which is part of the problem. I am not defending Truck here. I am just saying how it is for AFL coaches. It is not as simplistic as your view despite most punters on the other side of the fence thinking so.
If you think Truck dropping Parish would not have caused issues then you have no real idea about coaching and the pressure he was under this year from external sources.
Truck ended up not being able to sell the message this year which is his failure but a continual steam of midfield injures hurt. You can not build selection pressure if those under are not playing midfield in the VFL. It is a different situation for a premiership winning coach compared to young coach under pressure to win games.

Compare the pair;

Geelong midfield depth - Sam Menegola
Essendon midfield depth - Brayden Ham

Why did Parish not get dropped, it’s so unclear.

 

[Bjchan13]

I mentioned Hird as an example of what was left. I suspect he may well have dropped Parish but he got injured as well. Shiel got dropped as he was worse than Parish. Parish kept trying in offence. Shiel just gave up for a while. Hobbs got left out late when he was pretty much cooked and being a first year player they where never going to push him too far.
It makes perfect sense to say he was under pressure for results so he was sticking with the bloke who produced offensive results last year.
I will say it again. AFL coaches do not just drop their best players even if they have an issue which is part of the problem. I am not defending Truck here. I am just saying how it is for AFL coaches. It is not as simplistic as your view.

He was never going to make it as a head coach if he was crumbling under pressure to play players that didnt actually play the way he wanted them to. Do you think Darcy was following instructions that Truck gave him? Or that Truck just said whatever, you're capable of 30+ disposals and 5 clearances so i dont care if you dont follow my instructions?

 

[Seagrave_Holmes]

Tsatas/Wardlaw seem like 'safe' picks for us, while Phillipou might be more of a brave selection.

Given we've had 4 top 15 picks in the last two drafts, I personally wouldn't mind going for Phillipou - turns 18 late in the year and has traits that we're sorely lacking.

 

[Duckworth]

Tsatas/Wardlaw seem like 'safe' picks for us, while Phillipou might be more of a brave selection.

Given we've had 4 top 5 picks in the last two drafts, I personally wouldn't mind going for Phillipou - turns 18 late in the year and has traits that we're sorely lacking.

We had what now?

 

[ant555]

He was never going to make it as a head coach if he was crumbling under pressure to play players that didnt actually play the way he wanted them to. Do you think Darcy was following instructions that Truck gave him? Or that Truck just said whatever, you're capable of 30+ disposals and 5 clearances so i dont care if you dont follow my instructions?

So what was Brad Scotts excuse at North ?

I am over being nice about it. This is not about Truck anyway. It is about coaching in general. It is about the leeway the sides best players get. If you can not understand then I suspect you have never had much exposure to actual coaching. Truck had a number of players not understanding or playing the way they wanted. He also had a VFL side early in the year playing worse footy than the senior side. There was no selection pressure which is also a very big issue as it is hard to bring someone in to raise standards if the next level are producing worse standards.

I suspect it was as it always is with coaches. They ask their best players to do things but sometimes the other good stuff they do still outweighs the limitations. As I mentioned Shiel got dropped because he was actually worse. He stopped defending and playing the role they wanted in all areas.
How much noise would the likes of Lloyd made if it was Parish dropped ? It is not about crumbling under pressure. It is about trying to win games as well as trying to change culture. They have to weight up how much the offensive play gives you compared to how much lack of offence hurts. It is just how it is. It is not about not caring. Goddard spent his last two years being told every week he had to defend better yet every week he did not and said he would try and get better next week. In the end they did not give him another contract despite him still having some decent footy in him.



Please do name the coach who has dropped his best player ? Lyon probably the only one to come close dropping Dal who was one of their top end players. He was made the scape goat but the difference was they had some depth to cover and they where actually a good side with many stars and not struggling to get results.

You need to let go of Truck being totally at fault and start to get more of an insight of what coaches in general deal with. Truck had faults but the reason he failed in the end is he did not have the experience to deal with an ingrained culture issue at the club that has built up over the last 15 year. He just did not have that skill set despite him actually nailing what the issues where at the club in his very first address as senior coach. What Barham and Scott are now saying is 99% the same as what Truck said. Hard work. Defend better as a team and get back to being the blue collar side Essendon once was.

 

[BrunoV]

Yet they still have injuries. Could not get Cockatoo on the field. They also have had the best in the game drafting their players for the last 20 plus years. And guess what. They pick leaders. They will take slightly left field selections. There is a culture that has been carried on.

My point is your point needs a rethink. It is not jumping at shadows but actually doing what a few other clubs have and that is rate leadership and hard edge about just picking who you think is the best player.

How is it not going to be an issue in 18 months. Please do explain where we are going to get the leadership needed to drive it on field within 18 months ? And do not give me current players. If any of them where good leaders then we would not have the issues we have.

Not to mention that issue of 18 spots on the field.

 

[Zach Package]

Yet they still have injuries. Could not get Cockatoo on the field. They also have had the best in the game drafting their players for the last 20 plus years. And guess what. They pick leaders. They will take slightly left field selections. There is a culture that has been carried on.

My point is your point needs a rethink. It is not jumping at shadows but actually doing what a few other clubs have and that is rate leadership and hard edge about just picking who you think is the best player.

How is it not going to be an issue in 18 months. Please do explain where we are going to get the leadership needed to drive it on field within 18 months ? And do not give me current players. If any of them where good leaders then we would not have the issues we have.

I don’t think I’ve mentioned the word leadership in any of my posts at any point. I don’t disagree at all to be perfectly clear but that’s not the talking point.

I want to see the side run harder, faster and for longer and not pack it after a quarter and a half. That is something you can turnaround with the right people in the right roles.

That’s not a leadership thing, that’s flat out a capability issue.

 

[TheFrenchCut]

It's good that the draft is a month away, hey

 

[ant555]

I don’t think I’ve mentioned the word leadership in any of my posts at any point. I don’t disagree at all to be perfectly clear but that’s not the talking point.

I want to see the side run harder, faster and for longer and not pack it after a quarter and a half. That is something you can turnaround with the right people in the right roles.

That’s not a leadership thing, that’s flat out a capability issue.

I give up.

 

[Zach Package]

I give up.

Cleary I need to stop prefacing things with ‘this will be an unpopular opinion, but’

 

[TurnOnTheBrightLights]

Is there any chance that Wardlaw and or Sheezel don't go to North? And why do we keep hearing so called scuttlebutt the Tsatas will slip - this has real Bo Callaghan areas about it.

 

[citizen-erased]

The highest risk move we can currently do, is take guys without superstar potential. Playing it ridiculously safe is partially why we've been so terrible for 19 years. The riskier prospects of Cox and Perkins are the ones who could break us out of the mess. We need to keep stacking that level of talent, especially if it’s contested.

I don't think a lot of those early guys have shown enough to suggest, even if they reach their potential, they'll be vastly better players than the likes of Szykbowski, Ryan, Jones, Hotton, Konstanty, guys who will go 10-20ish picks behind some of them.

Whereas if George reaches his potential.... He kicked 18 goals in his first 5 games of the season (including 5 against the Power who were prelim finalists) and got injured after that. Keeps that up for the whole season and he takes out the goal kicking by about 9 goals over Cadman as a 186cm forward. Even if he doesn't transition to midfield; the need for us as a forward is there too and his talent as a forward justifies the selection on it's own. Gives us midfield scope with Perkins (and potentially Humphrey).

I don't think we need our kids playing straight away. With a fit list; spots will be very hard to get next year. I expect less than 20 games from our entire draft this year.

The other part is we can immediately chuck George on the long term injury list and take another player in to SSP or midyear. Despite being a shallow draft I like some of the unheralded prospects late like Bevan or a project ruck like Northam or Broadbent.

With you on george as a 2nd pick between 5 and davey if we're lucky enough
May require a trade up. Suspect he doesn't last long

 

[Call Me Cake]

Is there any chance that Wardlaw and or Sheezel don't go to North? And why do we keep hearing so called scuttlebutt the Tsatas will slip - this has real Bo Callaghan areas about it.

GWS: Cadman
North: Wardlaw
North: Tsatas
Ess: Sheezel

 

[ghostdog]

Having played lot of forward Humphry has not had to defend a lot. He will have his limits but he is a lot more of a physical beast who loves the hard stuff.
As for trading up and back. Not really something I put much thought into. Would prefer to keep 4 and take who is available there.

Most players who play a physical style tend to put effort into defending and pressure.

What do you see as Phillipou's deficiencies?

 

[ghostdog]

GWS: Cadman
North: Wardlaw
North: Tsatas
Ess: Sheezel

I read yesterday somewhere that North is keen on Sheezel and Tsatas, so Wardlaw may be there, which isn't a bad thing at all. A future leadership group of McGrath, Redman, Hobbs and Wardlaw is solid.

 

[ghostdog]

I mentioned Hird as an example of what was left. I suspect he may well have dropped Parish but he got injured as well. Shiel got dropped as he was worse than Parish. Parish kept trying in offence. Shiel just gave up for a while. Hobbs got left out late when he was pretty much cooked and being a first year player they where never going to push him too far. Plus all they guys mentioned where playing anyway.
It makes perfect sense to say he was under pressure for results so he was sticking with the bloke who produced offensive results last year.
I will say it again. AFL coaches do not just drop their best players even if they have an issue which is part of the problem. I am not defending Truck here. I am just saying how it is for AFL coaches. It is not as simplistic as your view despite most punters on the other side of the fence thinking so.
If you think Truck dropping Parish would not have caused issues then you have no real idea about coaching and the pressure he was under this year from external sources.
Truck ended up not being able to sell the message this year which is his failure but a continual steam of midfield injures hurt. You can not build selection pressure if those under are not playing midfield in the VFL. It is a different situation for a premiership winning coach compared to young coach under pressure to win games.

You also cannot build selection pressure by doing something left field like dropping Parish for Hird if you know that there are people undermining your position and the message you're selling. In retrospect, he probably should have dropped Parish for Hird anyway. At least maybe Robbo would then have supported him.

 

[ant555]

Cleary I need to stop prefacing things with ‘this will be an unpopular opinion, but’

No clearly you need to be ready for people to probe the unpopular opinion.
You questioned why people had gone away from Tsatas and produced a theory on our fitness being the issue for our lack of two way running.
I am saying that part of our fitness issues come from not focusing on endurance at the draft and the fact we often drafted round pegs for square holes.
If we place more focus on drafting the real competitors then what happens is the culture starts to change. The playing group is more inclined to do the hard edge stuff and the two way running . If you do what the Tigers did and place endurance running as a major priority in your recruiting then you get a side that can run all day.
Flogging the players on the track is not the simple fix.
Parish was super fit last year but had defensive issues.
Pushing Stringer to train at midfield level has had him break down twice now before round 1.
McGrath will never be midfield level endurance and if you have watched him play closely you would see him just walking a lot of the time when he plays midfield.
They have tried to push Langford to midfield level but he can run out of gas as well.
Can the put more work into training smarter ? Yes but you can only train someone to run to their limit and if the opposition player can go further then that is it.

The other thing that makes us look unfit is a forward line that is bog slow across all lines.

Tsatas will be a great player. If we get him I am fine with it but he comes with a warning and that is a lot of work has to go into his game and there is a very big chance he will not reach his full potential with us unless we totally change parts of the list and make some unpopular decisions on a few players. His spot is an upgrade on Parish or replacement of Shiel. None of the three will co exist in the same midfield. The question is do you need him now or in three years after you have built a bit more of a hard edge side.
If we do get him then we will have to make a real focus of finding some good blue collar midfield options to improve the pressure / hard edge aspect of our game as even if Tsatas does pick up his two way running he will never be the physical style player we lack. Even he admitted himself on SEN when asked who would win a contest out of him and Wardlaw it would always be Wardlaw but he would get him on the outside.

 

[Kyptastic]

I read yesterday somewhere that North is keen on Sheezel and Tsatas, so Wardlaw may be there, which isn't a bad thing at all. A future leadership group of McGrath, Redman, Hobbs and Wardlaw is solid.

Tsatas said in an interview yesterday that he and Sheezel are good mates. North might be tempted to do a Gold Coast and pick both of them hoping that it makes it less likely that either would want to leave, which would mean Essendon have the opportunity of drafting Wardlaw.

 

[Seagrave_Holmes]

Is there any chance that Wardlaw and or Sheezel don't go to North? And why do we keep hearing so called scuttlebutt the Tsatas will slip - this has real Bo Callaghan areas about it.

Wardlaw is a bombers supporter - Dodoro could be working this angle hard.

 

[citizen-erased]

Tsatas said in an interview yesterday that he and Sheezel are good mates. North might be tempted to do a Gold Coast and pick both of them hoping that it makes it less likely that either would want to leave, which would mean Essendon have the opportunity of drafting Wardlaw.

With any 3, i think we'd be happy
Challenge for us is maximising 22 so it isnt burnt on davey. And cherry on top would be munkara late.