Recruiting AFL Draft Watch 2023

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Spoiler: LIVE DRAFT ORDER (2023 Draft Order)

 

[Yoda_]

But how much resource is going towards KPDs, especially top end picks? They just have to back what they have at some point. Maybe recruiters can look at it next year if it truly fails, but at this stage, it's too early to call it a fail.

I think picking O'Sullivan is doing too much unless he is versatile like Curtin.

If one of Reid or Baldwin are moving forward (or O'Sullivan) then taking Connor would be somewhat ok. Right now lopsiding our KPP 70/30 is poor list management

 

[JayJ20]

If one of Reid or Baldwin are moving forward (or O'Sullivan) then taking Connor would be somewhat ok. Right now lopsiding our KPP 70/30 is poor list management

Baldwin was already moved to defence and Reid to me looks better as a defender. In fact, a lot of resources went into KPPs (except a CHF which I believe an attempt for JUH will potentially address) so it's time to look at other parts of the ground. KPDs are far easier to come across and develop.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

KPDs are far easier to come across and develop

Really? Then why was McKay in such demand?

 

[Yoda_]

Really? Then why was McKay in such demand?

because he was the best of a mediocre yet respectable bunch available

 

[Keystone agony]

Ess In: Pick 12 and 15
Ess Out: Pick 9 and 31

Sydney In: Pick 17 and 18
Sydney Out: Pick 12

North In: Pick 9 and 31
North out: Pick 15, 17, 18

Id do this

Guarantees a

Caddy
Osullivan
Leake
Wilson
Windsor
Tholstrup

Then at 15 id say we look at a C.Edwards or Harderman pending who we pick with our first

 

[doug85]

because he was the best of a mediocre yet respectable bunch available

Mediocre yet respectable?

 

[Yoda_]

Mediocre yet respectable?

All capable of playing AFL football, all to a respectable level. McKay possibly a high level

McKay, Ratugalea, BZT, Barrass, M.McGoverm, Howard were all available this off season. McKay arguably the best of the bunch

 

[jannissary]

Really? Then why was McKay in such demand?

1) compare the size of him to baldwin etc. they're all around the same size but physically (at least to me) he's more imposing (ie: likely got more strength in comparison to the others but that's likely because he's been in the system longer)
2) who at essendon can play on a tom hawkins type and not give away 5+ goals because they get out muscled.
3) he's got more prospects than campaigners who've been good clubmen but wouldn't get a game elsewhere with regards to being a stable part of our team (injuries not withstanding)
4) how many tall defenders were up for trade during the period?

 

[fairbump_playon]

I think there is merit to both options of taking best available, and trading back if the deal is sweet enough.

What I want is:

• clear articulated plan from the recruitment team on the direction they chose
• accountability to that strategy if it doesn't go to plan

You may or may not get the first - but good luck with the second.

At what stage exactly would you hope for a recruitment team say “yep we screwed the 2023 draft, shouldn’t have taken player x”?

It has to be so far in the future that it’s ancient history. Eg only about now could Essendon talk that way about Aaron Francis. You couldn’t say it while he’s at the club. You couldn’t say it as he’s leaving.

And frankly, now what value is there to hear the club take responsibility for a drafting error from 8 years ago.

 

[FlyingV]

i think we can agree to some degree that having a KPD is important, and it’s a critical role.

Fortunately we have one in McKay, in his prime, for 5 years

We also have a couple of young developing options in Hayes, Reid and Baldwin. We also have Ridley a very capable intercepting tall option. We also have Cox who needs to fit in the mix somehow.

If OSullivan is head and shoulders best available and has versatility to be a forward… fine. But my god if we do not prioritise the fact we get run all over by the best teams. And if we cannot execute a strategy that enables us to compete with the run of GWS and Collingwood after what they did to us and the success they have had… I’m lost for words.

They run in waves. And if people think bringing Duursma alone in fixes this they are crazy.

 

[ant555]

But how much resource is going towards KPDs, especially top end picks? They just have to back what they have at some point. Maybe recruiters can look at it next year if it truly fails, but at this stage, it's too early to call it a fail.

I think picking O'Sullivan is doing too much unless he is versatile like Curtin.

Who says he is not versatile ? The only thing he has not done to the level of Curtin is have any sort of form in the midfield. Otherwise he has shown as much form in the back half and has played good footy forward. My issue with wait and see is I already think that we have made a mistake by picking too many 85kg / 200cm players who take an age to develop and actually tend to be rather inconsistent .

I think picking someone interior or trading back to far is dangerous even if we do end up with one too many KPD in 3 years. The top 12 or so picks in the draft is for picking the best available unless you are picking in a strongly regarded draft where you can risk it a bit.

I am not welded to O'Sullivan as such but I am 100% not just passing on him just because we have Reid / Cox / Hayes .

 

[ant555]

If one of Reid or Baldwin are moving forward (or O'Sullivan) then taking Connor would be somewhat ok. Right now lopsiding our KPP 70/30 is poor list management

Given both Reid and Baldwin are on one year contracts and could very easily be gone in 2025 I am not so sure.
You keep saying bad list management. You still have to try and rectify the previous mistakes. The fact is O'Sullivan also plays forward at a decent level. He actually goes in the Nick Cox box of being able to play at both ends rather than a just a KPD .

Lets face it yes we have a better set of KPD than KPF but the fact is as genuine KPD we have McKay / Laverde / Ridley. McKay is hopefully the long term FB . Laverde is a decent battler and I would rather see Ridley playing half back flank.

Hayes is 2 years away from being an answer. Yes he showed a bit in the VFL but he is still a stick man . I suspect his trajectory will be similar to BZT. Maybe a couple of games next year if there are injuries

My view on Reid is he is more likely to end up a skinny ruck or tall forward. I do not think he has the body size for genuine FB and he does not have the speed for genuine intercept.

Baldwin has scope for FB despite his 193cm as he uses his body well on the bigger blokes to move them off the line. I am not sure as a forward as at his pace he has issues with defenders with pace. He can not use his pace in the same way. With McKay coming in I suspect he will just be back up and not really get a look in.

I just do not have an issue with taking O'Sullivan simply because he is considered a KPD . Just as I was not totally unhappy we took Hobbs despite having several 180cm midfielders .

Sometimes the draft does not give you what you want in your pick range. Sometimes you are lucky and their is a choice.

Caddy / O'Sullivan / Wilson . One of them and I am not complaining . Caleb Windsor . I am not too unhappy as he does have a dimension we could use as well.

I could even entertain trading out 9 & 35 for 14 &20 .

But my point is it is not smart to not considerer O'Sullivan simply because our KPD stocks may be a bit lop sided for one or two seasons on a 5 year build.

 

[ant555]

i think we can agree to some degree that having a KPD is important, and it’s a critical role.

Fortunately we have one in McKay, in his prime, for 5 years

We also have a couple of young developing options in Hayes, Reid and Baldwin. We also have Ridley a very capable intercepting tall option. We also have Cox who needs to fit in the mix somehow.

If OSullivan is head and shoulders best available and has versatility to be a forward… fine. But my god if we do not prioritise the fact we get run all over by the best teams. And if we cannot execute a strategy that enables us to compete with the run of GWS and Collingwood after what they did to us and the success they have had… I’m lost for words.

They run in waves. And if people think bringing Duursma alone in fixes this they are crazy.

We can simply out mark sides with all our intercept defenders

Just a few things.

McKay still has one hurdle to get over. He has been injury prone in the last few years.

The issue with the 3 x 200cm players in Reid / Cox / Hayes is they are all stick men .

Duursma and Billings as a forward both help our running power. Yes we will need more . Given how many players are uncontracted for 2025 I suspect there will be more changes at the end of next year than this year.

 

[Sporno 4 Pyros]

i think we can agree to some degree that having a KPD is important, and it’s a critical role.

Fortunately we have one in McKay, in his prime, for 5 years

We also have a couple of young developing options in Hayes, Reid and Baldwin. We also have Ridley a very capable intercepting tall option. We also have Cox who needs to fit in the mix somehow.

If OSullivan is head and shoulders best available and has versatility to be a forward… fine. But my god if we do not prioritise the fact we get run all over by the best teams. And if we cannot execute a strategy that enables us to compete with the run of GWS and Collingwood after what they did to us and the success they have had… I’m lost for words.

They run in waves. And if people think bringing Duursma alone in fixes this they are crazy.

Great post!!
Pies/Giants keep selecting guys who can gut run and we keep picking KP players that will be good when they fill out in 3 years time (we are always 2 years away ).

There’s talk that Melbs/GWS want Caleb Windsor when they already have good gut runners in their side.
So many good sides in the past 20 years have good runners (Cousins, Swan, Isaac Smith, half this years Pies team) but our recruiting team haven’t cottoned on to that yet

 

[Yoda_]

I agree with pretty much everything your'e saying, just not sure the difference between O'Sullivan and say a Leake or Windsor.

I could even entertain trading out 9 & 35 for 14 &20 .

9 and 35 for 14 + F1 would be my absolutely best case scenario.

 

[ant555]

I agree with pretty much everything your'e saying, just not sure the difference between O'Sullivan and say a Leake or Windsor.


9 and 35 for 14 + F1 would be my absolutely best case scenario.

Not really interested in their F1. If I am trading out of 9 it is so we have two out of our 3 picks this year inside the top 25 this year. They are not going backwards next year IMO. They will be 5th to 10th. If we are looking at 2 first round picks next year you are pushing the rebuild out further.

Who knows what the actual difference them. All I know is O'Sullivan is not the normal skinny tall we have been picking in recent times.

 

[Keystone agony]

Keystone Agony dislikes this

So does Cal and the recruiting managers generally

 

[ant555]

Great post!!
Pies/Giants keep selecting guys who can gut run and we keep picking KP players that will be good when they fill out in 3 years time (we are always 2 years away ).

There’s talk that Melbs/GWS want Caleb Windsor when they already have good gut runners in their side.
So many good sides in the past 20 years have good runners (Cousins, Swan, Isaac Smith, half this years Pies team) but our recruiting team haven’t cottoned on to that yet

O'Sullivan is not the type we normally pick. He is already 92kg and only a small amount of time away from ideal playing weight. Has played both ends. Great mark. Good endurance and mobility. There would be just as much chance picking someone with gut running power in the thirties but there are no KP prospects like O'Sullivan there.

We added Duursma and Gresham who will improve our running power.

I am happy to take Wilson who runs all day for sure and it is an issue but gut runners are spread throughout the draft. O'Sullivan is the second best available KP in the draft .

 

[ant555]

So does Cal and the recruiting managers generally

I doubt it is recruiting managers. None of them use it.

 

[doug85]

Cal Twomey's Phantom Draft: Top 30, late picks, whispers

Who will your club take in this year's AFL Draft? Our guru makes the call

www.afl.com.au

Well Cal has us taking Caddy and he’s usually pretty bloody accurate. Hope he’s right again this year.

 

[Keystone agony]

McKay still has one hurdle to get over. He has been injury prone in the last few years

This is not true

Hes played 56 games in the last 3 years and due to norths position on the ladder he hasnt been rushed to play more, otherwise he likely wouldve for a contender as the main key defender

 

[Keystone agony]

I doubt it is recruiting managers. None of them use it.

They nay not use the term 'Elite 8' it comes off as a bit unprofessional and also indicates there position which no recruiter does

But Twomey quite often says there is a group of 6 or 8 top liners, do you see it that way then the next group of 4, none have answered no to that, so far

Also has been made note that the top group of 8 isnt talling about Walter or Read, only players open in the pool

 

[Keystone agony]

Cal Twomey's Phantom Draft: Top 30, late picks, whispers

Who will your club take in this year's AFL Draft? Our guru makes the call

www.afl.com.au

Well Cal has us taking Caddy and he’s usually pretty bloody accurate. Hope he’s right again this year.

Curtin the biggests steal at 8 (10)

Surely GWS take eagles F1 for 7 (9)

 

[doug85]

They nay not use the term 'Elite 8' it comes off as a bit unprofessional and also indicates there position which no recruiter does

But Twomey quite often says there is a group of 6 or 8 top liners, do you see it that way then the next group of 4, none have answered no to that, so far

He said there’s around 12 players in the top bracket the other day on gettable.

 

[Keystone agony]

He said there’s around 12 players in the top bracket the other day on gettable.

Yep elite 8 and next 4