Preview AFL Round 13 Brisbane Lions V Richmond

[Stocka]

Cornelius is clearly a one touch marker, clean hands, without watching the 2s i wonder whether there have been question marks over his defensive pressure. This could be the only reason we haven't seen him yet.

The way he played last night, it just makes me wonder why we didn't have more faith in him to be able to step into the team sooner rather than later and went for the Fevola trade.

Yes, I know it's only one game, but I don't think Cornelius's efforts last night were a fluke (pretty hard to fluke the way he presented as a target and marked the ball so well).

In both games he has played so far he has looked dangerous around the goals and managed to convert a few.

 

[lionshine]

Voss mentioned in his presser that Polks and Ash will be back against Carlton and Brown's a chance.

and Black???

 

[Stocka]

Deplorable decisions with handball to players in a worst position. BAD COACHING !! The fact that it is from across the board points to that. Experienced players are probably the worst offenders. Time and again hospital handballs to players with barely a glance at the play around the ball. Looks and is woefull, dead set heartbreaker to watch our team do it so successfully.

Yes.

There is clearly an overestimation of our players to pull off this style of play. Our skills are not good enough and we are simply not fast enough. We either get caught or are corralled into positions where we are unable to dispose of the ball effectively or productively.

In the words of my dad: "Who do they think they are?!"

Now, my dad can make some average calls about the modern game, but I reckon he's spot on with this one.

 

[Stocka]

Voss mentioned in his presser that Polks and Ash will be back against Carlton and Brown's a chance.

One would hope they are not being rushed back merely because it's "too hard" to work on any other options.

 

[Hollow Knight]

It's like watching an Auskick team trying to play like the Harlem Globetrotters at times.

19 points down and we're trying to fire off look-away handpasses etc...

Black... Brown... Drummond... McGrath... Maguire... Polkinghorne... too many of our classiest/composed/consistent players have been injured for too long and it's showed.

We need a season reboot with these players back on deck and we can build something. It's going to have to wait for 2011 unfortunately.

 

[Tassie4ever]

After last night's debacle, it's pretty clear that while we might not have bottomed out we're not far from it. An appalling display. If any one, experienced player has put in a worse performance than Johnstone last night I haven't seen it. Disgraceful.

It's pointless us perservering with Johnstone, Selwood, Buchanan, and Hawksley. We aren't going to improve with blokes like this in our 22. Luke Power, great champion that he has been, is now at best a bench player, unfortunately.

What most disappoints me are our second tier players- Rischitelli, Patfull, Redden, Sherman all had absolute howlers and it's now a trend.

Fitness wise, Brennan is way from 100%, as is quite obviously Fevola. I was told that 2 players had fitness tests in the rooms beforehand. Is this what we've come to? Banfield is close to worn out doing what others won't. The lack of pressure by us on the ball carrier was the worst I've seen in years. We have only two consistent throughout the came competitors, Banfield and Rockliff, who continues to be a revelation.

Watched 3/4rs of the 2's- Harwood, Retzlaff, Beams and O'Brien must be real chances given that we can't keep with the current line-up, surely. Hanley played like a man in possibly his last season with the Lions.

As to those bagging Cornelius [get back to Tassie, ungrateful, etc etc] well it's clear why he wasn't picked before- clean hands, presents, kicks goal. Doesn't fit the team ethic really.

Re Leuenberger- we have a problem with this lad. I know, injuries, staph, weight etc. The simple fact is he is way too soft. Watched closely, he looks at the opposition ruck at each bounce before electing his strategy- ie he reacts. At boundary throw ins he is much better since he doesn't have this option. I don't know that experience will fix this. As Shane Warne might have said- can't ruck, can't kick, can't mark. Unfortunately Clark has had a major form lapse at the same time.

Last, re the medical staff advice and Brown playing at his insistence. Well, if that IS the case, why bother with medicos at all- just let the players make the call.

This year is gone- time to prepare for next.

 

[kimp]

...


I can't help but think that last comment is a bit arrogant, to be honest. It's as if to say that if you are content with the current status on the field that you are somehow a "more grown-up person". I can't agree with that sentiment.

...

Not my intention at all. I just do not see the need to lambast all and sundry and find scapegoats which is what seems to happen here after a loss. I am NOT saying that you are being irrational (I think you are a good poster actually) but there are definitely a majority that jump off the deep end and want to throw the baby out.

My initial post was trying to point out that there are some good things happening in the team to try to counter-balance the overwhelming negativity.


And in general I'd ike to point out that if coaches/managers/leaders acted in the way that posters on this board seem to expect them to then whatever the organisation they are responsible for would be a complete mess.

What always needs to happen is find out the cause of any malaise and determine if you have any control over it. If you do not then you put countermeasures/coping mechanisms in place as much as possible and continue with the orginal plan.

 

[BuntonRules]

Between them Hawksley, Raines, Johnstone & Collier gave them at least 6 goals by doing stupid, stupid things. You won't win many games by conceding a 36 point start.

Why is it we have no run? Opposition teams go end to end & give their forwards a chance, but we always appear so stagnant.

Fevo should have a look in the mirror, or Browny should take him out the back for some home truths.

Positives -

Clark looking more like last year.

Rocky is becoming a leader already

Banfield doing what Banfield does

A-corn has class. Hands like that are invaluable

Staker is far from perfect, but we would be lost without him ATM.

No more injuries

If we keep this up, pick 4 is ours.

 

[Frank Drebin]

so how come every supporter used it for an excuse for Browny this year

Cant have it both ways - I for one see that Fev is injured like browny was and neither should have played

Fair point, but at least browndog tried his guts out and looked interested.

He WANTED to help the team.

 

[Frank Drebin]

We need a season reboot with these players back on deck and we can build something. It's going to have to wait for 2011 unfortunately.

BANG! there it is! "There's always next season!!"

although TBD i agree, a season without injuries to our better players would be something to behold.

 

[chopperduck]

I think Fev is still a bit limited due to his injury. He hasn't looked or played like we know Fev can all year while he has had this injury cloud over him. I think the other thing is he is a leading forward, and i think he is have trouble timing his leads with the mess that is happening in the rest of the field. We don't have nice clear ball movement, and there were a few times last night where he found space, but we just didn't see him, and by the time we did, the execution of the kick going to him made it pointless.

Im not trying to say Fev is not to blame, i don't think he is doing enough, but i just think the attention people are giving him here to single him out is extremely unfair, given how the rest of the team is performing as well.

ATM i think he could lead far and strong all day and it wouldn't make a difference, we either wouldn't see him, would ignore the lead or just butcher the kick to him. I just find it very very hard to single players out when so so many are doing the wrong thing.

 

[BuntonRules]

good point

 

[Stocka]

Not my intention at all.

Ok cool.

I just do not see the need to lambast all and sundry and find scapegoats which is what seems to happen here after a loss.

It's never good to see individual players targeted over various incidents or individual performances and having them blamed for the overall performance of the team.

However, I think that people are starting to hit on larger, genuine issues, rather than just superficial ones about certain players.

I am NOT saying that you are being irrational (I think you are a good poster actually) but there are definitely a majority that jump off the deep end and want to throw the baby out.

Yes, I suppose there are always going to be a fair section of supporters who are reactive. It seems at the moment though, that even more rational supporters are becoming frustrated, disappointed and disenchanted with how things are going.

My initial post was trying to point out that there are some good things happening in the team to try to counter-balance the overwhelming negativity.

Yes there have still be some positives this year, even over the last few weeks.

The thing that disappoints me though is that these positives only seem to be an afterthought that has arisen due to the failure of our initial intentions. Like a token positive that was not really the focus of our efforts.

And in general I'd ike to point out that if coaches/managers/leaders acted in the way that posters on this board seem to expect them to then whatever the organisation they are responsible for would be a complete mess.

What always needs to happen is find out the cause of any malaise and determine if you have any control over it. If you do not then you put countermeasures/coping mechanisms in place as much as possible and continue with the orginal plan.

To be honest, I actually feel that things are already in a mess and that there have been some poor management decisions. I know that this is a debatable point, but I genuinely believe this to be the case.

I think that various decisions have led us to being in the position that we are in currently and that whilst there are measures that can be put in place to rectify things, that we have put ourselves in a position where this will be more of a long-term project, rather than anything that can be fixed in the short-term. Even so, the improvement will only occur if people are willing to admit their mistakes and change their approach (and yes, once again I acknowledge that there will be people who will disagree with me as to whether or not there have been errors of judgements and poor decisions on behalf of the management).

I could be wrong about this, but I feel that many of the problems we're having now have actually been around for a number of years and that various decisions that we've made have compounded the problems further.

 

[salty parish]

After last night's debacle, it's pretty clear that while we might not have bottomed out we're not far from it. An appalling display. If any one, experienced player has put in a worse performance than Johnstone last night I haven't seen it. Disgraceful.

It's pointless us perservering with Johnstone, Selwood, Buchanan, and Hawksley. We aren't going to improve with blokes like this in our 22. Luke Power, great champion that he has been, is now at best a bench player, unfortunately.

What most disappoints me are our second tier players- Rischitelli, Patfull, Redden, Sherman all had absolute howlers and it's now a trend.

Fitness wise, Brennan is way from 100%, as is quite obviously Fevola. I was told that 2 players had fitness tests in the rooms beforehand. Is this what we've come to? Banfield is close to worn out doing what others won't. The lack of pressure by us on the ball carrier was the worst I've seen in years. We have only two consistent throughout the came competitors, Banfield and Rockliff, who continues to be a revelation.

Watched 3/4rs of the 2's- Harwood, Retzlaff, Beams and O'Brien must be real chances given that we can't keep with the current line-up, surely. Hanley played like a man in possibly his last season with the Lions.

As to those bagging Cornelius [get back to Tassie, ungrateful, etc etc] well it's clear why he wasn't picked before- clean hands, presents, kicks goal. Doesn't fit the team ethic really.

Re Leuenberger- we have a problem with this lad. I know, injuries, staph, weight etc. The simple fact is he is way too soft. Watched closely, he looks at the opposition ruck at each bounce before electing his strategy- ie he reacts. At boundary throw ins he is much better since he doesn't have this option. I don't know that experience will fix this. As Shane Warne might have said- can't ruck, can't kick, can't mark. Unfortunately Clark has had a major form lapse at the same time.

Last, re the medical staff advice and Brown playing at his insistence. Well, if that IS the case, why bother with medicos at all- just let the players make the call.

This year is gone- time to prepare for next.

Agree with most but bit tough on redden-25 possessions and got votes in the herald sun-i thought he tried at least.

 

[possum8]

What is going on with Sherman? Only 10 disposals against Richmond. Should be getting more from a guy that could be part of our first string midfield.

 

[brenjay]

what's worse is that we have lost guys who absolutely bleed for the club...

no on-field leadership at all and everyone seems to be playing for their pay cheque.

i'd rather play copeland and notting than some of the pretenders on our team.

 

[thecubs08]

When browny was ruled out against the bulldogs and selwood was brought in rather than cornelius thats when i was really pissed .
To lose a key forward and bring in a tagger at best was staggering especially one who has been consistently kicking goals in the twos.
It's really delicate in the sense that vossy is a club legend the prodigal son ,the untouchable , so who is going to second guess him?
Maybe the only guy that did was assistant coach last year and had actual senior coaching experience .
Wayne Brittain and he is gone and he was very critical over his coaching last night on SEN radio.
Sorry to be negative guys i'm just calling it as i see it.

 

[lionshine]

I want to see

IN O' Brien Harwood Hanley
Out Collier Selwood Hawksley

Next year, with another year in the gym, I think Jesse O' Brien will be in our best 22 likewise Harwood. Last year I think we drafted fantastic and I believe that,

Harwood, O' Brien, Bartlett and Golby will all become good midfielders for this club!

 

[MacMum]

No probs cubs08.....thats what this forum is for, expressing your opinion, whether it be positive or negative.....don't apologise, shouldn't have to....cheers

 

[thecubs08]

​

I want to see

IN O' Brien Harwood Hanley
Out Collier Selwood Hawksley

Next year, with another year in the gym, I think Jesse O' Brien will be in our best 22 likewise Harwood. Last year I think we drafted fantastic and I believe that,

Harwood, O' Brien, Bartlett and Golby will all become good midfielders for this club!

I agree with that lionshine but we must include sheldon and more importantly andrew raines (apple i call him as in turnover ) that handball last night must have been to a ghost because there was no one to accept it.
I see why the tigers fans were doing cartwheels with laughter when we picked him up.

 

[Quigley]

When browny was ruled out against the bulldogs and selwood was brought in rather than cornelius thats when i was really pissed .
To lose a key forward and bring in a tagger at best was staggering especially one who has been consistently kicking goals in the twos.
It's really delicate in the sense that vossy is a club legend the prodigal son ,the untouchable , so who is going to second guess him?
Maybe the only guy that did was assistant coach last year and had actual senior coaching experience .
Wayne Brittain and he is gone and he was very critical over his coaching last night on SEN radio.
Sorry to be negative guys i'm just calling it as i see it.

Can you give us a run down of what Brittain had to say? I would be interested.

Cheers

 

[thecubs08]

Can you give us a run down of what Brittain had to say? I would be interested.

Cheers

Sure Quigley.

Britts said Fevola is not fit and shouldn't have been playing

Brennan should not have been played at full back against the dogs.

Sherman was lucky to be in the side.

Cornelius should have played against the dogs.

Raines has issues with his disposal

Vossy mustn't leave loose players in front of key forwards.

 

[Quigley]

Thanks. Nothing too earth shattering there. A lot of people have been saying the same thing on here.

 

[Judge]

Is there any reason now why we shouldn't just junk our current midfield set-up/contingent and start again from scratch?

The first rule could be that anyone who is simply reactive and content to play his man from behind (a la Rischitelli) can either play somewhere else or not at all. Not like we have anything to lose by trying something radical.

Elevate Mc Cauley and see what he's got?

 

[Tassie4ever]

Agree with most but bit tough on redden-25 possessions and got votes in the herald sun-i thought he tried at least.

Well as we all know, there are possessions and there are possessions. Redden may have chalked up 25 [including it's assumed his kick straight up in the air which he amazingly regathered, only to be pinged for holding the ball- 2 possessions, negative impact], but he had absolutely no impact on the game. I'd be surprised if Cornelius had more than 6 kicks, so I rest my case.

I was one of those who had the highest of hopes for Redden after last year's performance, but he just has not come on.

Nor has Sheldon, Sherman, or Rich.