AFL Rules in Sydney Football Crowds

[Fire Storm]

I'v victorian and grew up in country victoria. In the 80's everybody I knew though that was where the game devolped from.

Coming from some Aboriginal game seems to have been a late 90's idea.

 

[Subprime]

I'v victorian and grew up in country victoria. In the 80's everybody I knew though that was where the game devolped from.

Coming from some Aboriginal game seems to have been a late 90's idea.

Subject for another thread but the answer is the game was codified in Melbourne 30 odd years before Gaelic footy was a twinkle in an eye.

Influences are another matter but you'd be hard pressed to pin it solely on Ireland there either.

 

[Redb#]

Att ending a Roosters game is the last thing anyone would want to do. Only Rugby League game in Sydney or not. Like I said earlier, if they folded, few would care.
.

That reeks of excuse making. "If they folded few would care", well why are they in the elite comp then?

Same difference between Gailec Football - Aussie Rules birthplace - and Australia Rules Football. No difference really.

Hardly the same thing, the name of the game is completely different.

Rugby league, rugby union, national 'rugby' league. The NRL calls itself a rugby league, like AFL is Australian 'Football' League. It's not hard to see how people with casual interest would just call it rugby.

 

[Fire Storm]

Subject for another thread but the answer is the game was codified in Melbourne 30 odd years before Gaelic footy was a twinkle in an eye.

Influences are another matter but you'd be hard pressed to pin it solely on Ireland there either.

Makes a nice yarn for around the camp fire.

That reeks of excuse making. "If they folded few would care", well why are they in the elite comp then?

The answer to that one is what I'd like to know too.

 

[mxett]

Att ending a Roosters game is the last thing anyone would want to do. Only Rugby League game in Sydney or not. Like I said earlier, if they folded, few would care.



Same difference between Gailec Football - Aussie Rules birthplace - and Australia Rules Football. No difference really.

well for starters RL and RU use the same shaped ball, the same goals, the same field size and shape, the same way of scoring, scrums, passing the same, tackling the same etc etc.

AFL and Gaelic football use completely different balls, the goals are different, the scoring is different, the field is completely different, the tackling is different, etc etc......

 

[Julie_L]

Why would the average AFL fan want to know the difference between RL and RU? Is there seriously much of a difference? Run forward, throw backwards, tackle, dive, try, kick. It's like saying one day cricket and test cricket are totally different. quote]


If only you knew what you were actually saying, you would be embarrassed to say something so ignorant on a public forum.

 

[Summer Nights]

If we are talking about Wagga, i believe that there are 6 football teams (AFL) running out of Wagga, and only 2 Rugby league teams, that must say something.

RL in the riverina is coming increasingly under pressure, Gundagai and Junee have big problems ATM getting kids to play http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/n...l-out-of-group-nine-sullivan-cup/2134017.aspx

There have also been a couple of incidents that RL/RU do not need, and have been quite sad really.

http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/n...ture-uncertain-after-game-injury/2165301.aspx

http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/n...third-spinal-injury-in-two-weeks/2171413.aspx

This story is particuarly bad, as it appears to be pre-meditated

http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/n...-footy-used-as-cover-for-assualt/2170453.aspx


Just on those stories above, as a parent i would be very hesitant to let my kids play any form of rugby, i dont consider myself a over protective parent, but the crakdown on head high tackles should be applauded, but ducking the head should also be frowned upon.

Rugby League is diluted in Wagga in terms of participation partly because of the uni students. Although Charles Sturt is agricultural and attracts country kids (NRL heartlands), it also has strong numbers from Sydney coming for many of its courses and playing Rugby Union (which the 'rich kids' play, apparently). From memory (as I studied there for 4 years, but came back to Victoria when I finished) there was an 'Aggies' team and the Reds, both union, and the pub culture for rugby was much more Union based. The have a few pubs there that are Union themed - 'The Union' and Romaro's.

This was 03-06, and when the Swans won the premiership there were heaps of visible AFL fans, many who didn't actually play the sport but considered the Swans to be 'their team'. You'd get the occasional idiot calling AFL 'aerial ping pong' or 'gayfl', but most people, even the rugby fans, either passively accepted it or enjoyed it as their first or second sport.

Overall, AFL is definitely the most popular sport in Wagga Wagga. It did produce Wayne Carey, too

I always saw Wagga as the border between AFL and NRL/Union, but to be honest I think it's probably encroached a bit further north in recent years, as seen by the decline in rugby participation in kids.

 

[Roddy]

Calling rugby league 'rugby' is way more accurate than calling Australian Football 'AFL' constantly. If you go to a suburban/country game of rugby league you are still watching rugby in some way, shape or form. If you go to a suburban/country game of Australian Football you are not watching AFL in any way, shape or form.

 

[cos789]

Influences are another matter but you'd be hard pressed to pin it solely on Ireland there either.

In fact what influences ?
AFL and GAA are similar in modern times but AR had the exact opposite rules to what is has today .Very unlikely that GAA turned 180 degrees exactly like AR .The only rules continuing to today are the "mark" and maybe the "handpass"

 

[cos789]

Why would the average AFL fan want to know the difference between RL and RU? Is there seriously much of a difference?

No . It's rugby as played by the Union or Northern league .
RL is a more stream lined version of RU(some say boring) and today the tactics are widely different as is the case with the different forms of cricket .

 

[cos789]

So you're saying origin hurts ratings and crowd figures for club games?

It's been on the list for years .

The now updated Official RL poor crowd excuses

1 .SL stuffed us up completely and we haven't recovered .
. The mergers put people off , merged teams don't represent their region , merged teams are too powerful .
. Dropping South Sydney put people off and put more off by coming back and will lose the rest by relocating or dying.
. Dropping the expansion teams kill any chance of becoming national .
. Dropping the other teams didn't matter because they weren't that popular anyway .

2 .We play to our "heartlands" .............. our heartlands are in the bush,
. These people don't get the chance to go to many games as ch9 chop and change times and generally play god.
. Ch 9 and Foxtel shedule NRL games on short notice unlike the AFL that lock the shedule all games in October
. Our heartlands seem to be getting smaller all the time .
. We're stuck in suburban times .

3. Sydney people are doing it tough and just can't afford to go -
. Mortage prices , fuel prices , public transport prices , battery prices for their remote control .
. $30 general entry, I was drinking UDL's at $9 per can

4 . It's a television game -
. And the game was on Fox or FTA so the fans were at home .
. Ratings are much more important than viewers .
. You have to count the regional and city figures even though they overlap .
. You have to count New Zealand figures even though it's not officially a state of Australia yet .
. The ratings were down so I guess a lot of people went out to clubs and pubs to watch it .
. There was a lot of sport on TV. ........golf , tennis , lawn bowls , motorsports , bowling , darts , WWWWE
. There were good shows on TV ... Bloke's World , Iron Chef , Bert's big brother idol lost on celebrity dancing singing skating survivor
. Couch potatoes count as real interested viewers .
. The report is not valid because it only shows interest not real support like ratings where the person gets off his butt and
. ............ sorry where the person changes the channel on the remote .

5.The game is popular but the team isn't
. Either that popular crowd drawing team is down OR that unpopular drawing team is dominating .

6 .It's the Sydney transport system
. Public transport is unpopular or it's too crowded because it's popular .
. You cannot expect people to go to the SFS just because people go to see the Swans at the SCG nextdoor .

7. It's the weather
. Too hot , too cold or perfect for doing something else .
. You cannot expect people to go to stadia in weather like that even though there's plenty of room in the stadia because nobody goes .

8. It's the media
. Too little media , the unfair media ,the negative RL media , too much AFL media
. Our supporters can't read the media (nice pictures though)
. It's war ,according to the Telegraph ,an invasion ,even though football was here before RL ..

9. It's the lack of development by the NRL ,ARL , NSWRL and BRL.... and
. we're facing development from AFL , FFA and Netball .
. the NZRL is sponging off Australia and Australia is raping the NZRL
. S14 RU is stealing all our players
. the AFL is stealing our players according to 60 minutes
. the FFA will be stealing our players as soon as they expand .

10. It's the lack of blockbusters .
. Sheduled against us was an another big game of .....RU , AFL, AL , NBL , ANL , WNBL.......
. We sheduled a game against another big game of .....RU , AFL, AL , NBL , ANL , WNBL......
. The upcoming Olympics is grabbing everybody's attention
. The recent RU WC is grabbing everybody's attention
. The soccer WC is grabbing everybody's attention
. even the AFL International Cup is grabbing attention.
. The recent RL WC is not grabbing everybody's attention - blame the AFL for one Australia Vs Ireland IR test



11. The government won't finance new stadiums , but when they do the crowds will be enormous.
. as long as all people are able sit close to the sidelines
. and the ends aren't too far from the action
. and now our stadiums are built they are too big and look empty deterring more people

. Homebush & SFS - small crowds are a visual embarrassment
. Lang Park - now built , no excuses..
. Docklands - state of the art boutique stadium not used as too costly (low crowds)
. Melbourne Olympic Park - latest holy grail for rl crowds
. Perth MES - now upgraded , nrl's wannabe team crowd about 1710 and going down .
. Gosford - new stadium , new savior for Sydney clubs
. Canberra , Cronulla ,Brookvale ,Kogarah , Paramatta , Campbelltown , Penrith , Wollongong -
. stadiums upgrade hasn't helped prevent decline .
. Newcastle upgrade on the way when the club is looking at downsizing .

12. When they gonna have double headers , triple headers ...we can then claim the one crowd for both games !

13 . We don't have -
. a centrally located "home of football" like the AFL .
. the AFL's draft , management , development , clout , and aggressive approach to expansion ..
. a decent game , (but that's the least of our worries)
. $1.2 billion in TV rights.
, People wanting to play our game with more wanting to play AFL than RL in the last 5 years .

We do have
. leagues clubs to support NRL clubs ,
. a new pokie tax that is gonna kill off the leagues clubs .
. a geographically centred stadium at Homebush suited to AFL .
. new stadium being built at Blacktown for AFL , because the NRL wasn't interested .
. players wanting to leave their NRL contracts to play AFL .


15. When looking at NRL crowd averages
. you cannot look at Sydney in isolation - because they are pathetically low .
. you cannot look at Melbourne because they have no history there and because they are pathetically low .
. you cannot look at this point in time because historically crowds dip this time of year .
. you cannot look at crowds at all because the crowd looked and felt a lot bigger than the official low figure .
. you cannot look at the TV at all because the crowd looked and felt a lot smaller than the official low figure .
. you can look at past pathetically low crowd figures because that shows the present in a good light .
. you overlook that 25% of all rounds affected by SOO with the best 34 players either unavailable or backing up after SOO.
. you cannot look at NRL crowds because the focus is on SOO .
. you cannot look at NRL crowds because they are inflated because they all do it .
. you cannot look at NRL crowds because clubs are paid $100k to play to empty stadiums .
. you cannot look at NRL crowds because they contain freebies from passport holding Pacific Islanders.
. you cannot look at NRL crowds because they contain freebies from Moms , nans , nurses and carers .
. you cannot look at NRL crowds because they contain freebies from anyone in their Warriors gear, does a haka or sings the national anthem,
. you cannot look at NRL crowds because more people turned up to see Russel Crowe rather than South Sydney .

16. you cannot look at SOO crowds
. because they contain a lot of freebies .
. tickets still are expensive...spending $100 in Sydney to watch footie is way too much
. spending $50 for the nose bleed section is way too much
. it is a big week in sport for sydney
. the game is just too good to watch on TV
, because the same same two teams play each other every year after year after year after year .

17. Canberra is under performing
. because now it supports two clubs .
. It's all a bluff because Canberra are renegotiating their stadium deal.

18. It's a bluff because the AFL want some publicity .

19. It's basically because rl is dying - but that is another list !!!

. cheers

 

[Subprime]

In fact what influences ?
AFL and GAA are similar in modern times but AR had the exact opposite rules to what is has today .Very unlikely that GAA turned 180 degrees exactly like AR .The only rules continuing to today are the "mark" and maybe the "handpass"

Footy has never had an offside rule and nor has Gaelic. That is their major similarity and it has always been there.

Australian football was preceded by uncodified village-style games that existed in various parts of the world, whether they were played in Mayo, or middle England or in western Victoria.

People have been arguing over which influences were stronger (or there at all) since day one.

 

[cos789]

Footy has never had an offside rule and nor has Gaelic. That is their major similarity and it has always been there.

Hardly significant when

Australian football was preceded by uncodified village-style games that existed in various parts of the world, whether they were played in Mayo, or middle England or in western Victoria.

I take it no games had offside untill rugby came along .

 

[Subprime]

Hardly significant when


I take it no games had offside untill rugby came along .

All the English public school football games had offside rules AFAIK. There may have been village games with them too but the further you go back the less detail exists. Geoffrey Blainey reckoned the offside rules were brought in to prepare young men for war.

The lack of offside rules is very significant for Australian football because its rulemakers were ex-English public schoolboys who would have been reared on games with offside rules. Discarding them was a philosophical leap.

 

[SwampCreature]

Makes a nice yarn for around the camp fire.

How can you possibly dismiss that when it is fact? I know NRL heads like to pick on the story of Aussie Rule's origin. but how can you try to argue against this fact? Are you trying to say that the rules weren't codified in the 1850's, and that Gaelic wasn't codified in the 1880's? Or are you going with the moronic sean ***an argument, that Australian rules was rugby for 20 odd years anyway? In which case, btw, ruining your original Gaelic "birthplace" argument?

RL losers are so ignorant and scared that they throw all sense out the window when trying to shit on AR.

 

[cos789]

All the English public school football games had offside rules AFAIK. There may have been village games with them too but the further you go back the less detail exists. Geoffrey Blainey reckoned the offside rules were brought in to prepare young men for war.

The lack of offside rules is very significant for Australian football because its rulemakers were ex-English public schoolboys who would have been reared on games with offside rules. Discarding them was a philosophical leap.

So soccer had offside just like rugby ?

 

[Bomber Bears]

Difference being the NRL game in question was the only NRL game in Sydney that weekend, whereas the Melbourne v Freo game would have been one of a number of well attended AFL games that weekend in Melbourne.

Why would the average AFL fan want to know the difference between RL and RU? Is there seriously much of a difference? Run forward, throw backwards, tackle, dive, try, kick. It's like saying one day cricket and test cricket are totally different. They are to a degree of course but they still are just cricket and they still appeal to people who like cricket.

Yeah, nah.

It's not high on my list of cares, but there is a fair difference between rugby and league, and I realise it has probably never grasped attention down south but there is actually a genuine history of antagonism between the two codes (unlike the media hype re League v AFL).

That's hilarious, someone from Wollongong bagging Melbourne. Now if from Port Douglas you might get agreement.

Glorious sunny weather, great beaches, water temp in the 20's till may, little to no traffic yet only an hour from Sydney. Wollongong aint so bad

 

[Subprime]

So soccer had offside just like rugby ?

Rugby had several offside rules, soccer had one which came from Cambridge rules...

The off-side rule adopted by the Cambridge rules stated that:

"If the ball has passed a player and has come from the direction of his own goal, he may not touch it till the other side have kicked it, unless there are more than three of the other side before him. No player is allowed to loiter between the ball and the adversaries' goal." (1856, probably earlier)[6]
​

This rule was subsequent adopted in essence by the Football Association in 1867, but weakening from "more than three" to "at least three".[7]

Of the rulemakers of Australian football, Wills had gone to Rugby School while Hammersly went to Cambridge.

 

[cos789]

It's not high on my list of cares,

I think you answered you own whinge .

Who cares if the Northern English breakway is atagonistic towards it's English private school peers .

Do you really care about about the highly atagonistic attitudes of the WAFL ,SANFL, TFL towards the expanded VFL (AFL).
Do you really care that are a number of AR clubs in Sydney and Brisbane that predate the VFL or that NZ had 131 football clubs before rl was even thought of and Australian Football was an International code or that we all could be playing AR now if RU types hadn't prevented it ?

 

[cos789]

soccer had one which came from Cambridge rules...

So Cambridge Rules Football is pretty much as it is today .
The original AR was probably played like today's rolling zone .

I too ,tend to the theory of the influence of school masters and them trying to find common ground and I can see Cambridge's influence in having no real offside and Rugby's influence of a rolling kicking war .That leaves the biggest distinguishing feature as the "mark" .

 

[Subprime]

So Cambridge Rules Football is pretty much as it is today .
The original AR was probably played like today's rolling zone .

I too ,tend to the theory of the influence of school masters and them trying to find common ground and I can see Cambridge's influence in having no real offside and Rugby's influence of a rolling kicking war .That leaves the biggest distinguishing feature as the "mark" .

Well not really.

Cambridge did have an offside rule and a kick forward to a marking player who subsequently kicked a goal, which is described by an onlooker to a game in Melbourne in 1858 (and reproduced in The Australian Game of Football), could not have legally happened in Rugby, Cambridge or any other English football code of the time.

Early Australian football could be a rolling scrum, an 1858 version of Saints Footy if you like, but equally even in its first year, quick kicks out of the middle were resulting in goals.

Skills and fitness have improved over the years but philosophically its still the same game.

 

[cos789]

philosophically its still the same game.

From the drawings I've seen football seemed a congested mess and this is probably verified in the low scoring evident .
You weren't allowed to tackle but to push(in the back) or hack(trip) the player so he would lose possession .Also you weren't allowed to pick the ball up off the ground but rather on the hop .(present GAA style).
Again the only similarity is the kick and the mark and the handpass .
To my way of thinking was akin to American Football(vaguely) where you'd scrum for a while and get a kick forward to commense scrummaging again .

IMO too much is attributed to certain influences and not enough to "well let's try that next time "

Australian Football must have been attractive from the start because it had extordinairy large crowds by world standards so one wonders when did idea of "flowing football" start .

 

[Bomber Bears]

I think you answered you own whinge .

Who cares if the Northern English breakway is atagonistic towards it's English private school peers .

Do you really care about about the highly atagonistic attitudes of the WAFL ,SANFL, TFL towards the expanded VFL (AFL).
Do you really care that are a number of AR clubs in Sydney and Brisbane that predate the VFL or that NZ had 131 football clubs before rl was even thought of and Australian Football was an International code or that we all could be playing AR now if RU types hadn't prevented it ?

I realise it's been tough for you living a period of your life where your code is not the number one game in town. I actually couldnt give much of a **** about this, although it sounds very rugby union like to attempt to bar people, see their attitude towards people who went to rugby league in the days before the professional era.

What I do care about is the game of rugby league (although it seems I dont care about it quite as much as you seem to). And when childish names are thrown at Australian Football (Gayfl, fumbleball etc, mostly crap although I did once smirk at cross country basketball) or, more legitimately, people state they dont actually like the game, the call of ignorance to it is thrown out. I find it amusing that these same people cant distinguish between two vastly different codes of sport in rugby union and rugby league. That is the minor point I attempted to make. Not a big deal, just a bit funny

 

[tonk]

I realise it's been tough for you living a period of your life where your code is not the number one game in town. I actually couldnt give much of a **** about this, although it sounds very rugby union like to attempt to bar people, see their attitude towards people who went to rugby league in the days before the professional era.

What I do care about is the game of rugby league (although it seems I dont care about it quite as much as you seem to). And when childish names are thrown at Australian Football (Gayfl, fumbleball etc, mostly crap although I did once smirk at cross country basketball) or, more legitimately, people state they dont actually like the game, the call of ignorance to it is thrown out. I find it amusing that these same people cant distinguish between two vastly different codes of sport in rugby union and rugby league. That is the minor point I attempted to make. Not a big deal, just a bit funny

I always found the term 'cross-country wrestling' quite amusing.

 

[fabulousphil]

If we are talking about Wagga, i believe that there are 6 football teams (AFL) running out of Wagga, and only 2 Rugby league teams, that must say something.

RL in the riverina is coming increasingly under pressure, Gundagai and Junee have big problems ATM getting kids to play http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/ne...p/2134017.aspx

There have also been a couple of incidents that RL/RU do not need, and have been quite sad really.

http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/ne...y/2165301.aspx

http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/ne...s/2171413.aspx

This story is particuarly bad, as it appears to be pre-meditated

http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/ne...t/2170453.aspx


Just on those stories above, as a parent i would be very hesitant to let my kids play any form of rugby, i dont consider myself a over protective parent, but the crakdown on head high tackles should be applauded, but ducking the head should also be frowned upon.

In a bit more info regarding riverina football both Luke bruest and Isaac Smith are the first players from their respective towns of Temora and Cootamundra to make it onto AFL lists, both debuted this year.

Both towns are really in the far north of the riverina and would be seen to be RL strongholds.

Is this just anecdotal evidence of the AFL making headway or one offs !.

Which brings me to this story ..... invasion of the Sherrin. http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/spo...-1226044712180

Which also brings me to this story regarding group 16 RL, which is the south coast of NSW below Batemans Bay.

http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/n...y-has-no-high-hopes-for-group-16/2175720.aspx

"I grew up at Cooma, but I went to Sydney for a few years and came back," Hennessy said.

"I can't believe how things have gone backwards.

"There's only five clubs and we're doing it really tough."

Highlighting a struggle to even keep the Group 16 competition alive,"I wasn't going to play this year, but I've had to pull on the boots to make up the numbers," he said.

(i do realise that some of this is repeated in another post)