AFL Rules in Sydney Football Crowds

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Is the AFL in trouble in spite of its crowds?

4) Live games in Melbourne. Very few are shown live against the gate in Melbourne (or anywhere else for that matter), this will change next year of course.
The question of why the NRL does not attract crowds like the AFL seems to bother and irritate a lot of people.

However, the way the AFL seems so keen on changing the game and its rules (reducing games from 100 to 80 minutes playing time, with further reductions expected, and the move to a smaller stadium with the closure of Waverley and opening of Docklands) suggests that the AFL is desperately obsessed with the inability of Australian football to play well on television. The AFL feared and fears that if it cannot make Australian Rules play as well on television as major international sports like basketball, rugby union, rugby league and even soccer, it will lose its audience to those sports which play best on TV.

Having watched games from before the AFL made its first change, I cannot say it makes as much difference as the AFL would probably like. The one improvement for ease of appreciation on TV is that the game is more stop-start with a roofed stadium where you cannot get wet games that discourage such play. If the AFL wants Australian Rules to play as well on TV as basketball or the rugby codes, it would need to shorten grounds a lot more and make games so much shorter that the game could lose a lot more than the variety already lost with a roofed stadium. Unless (and probably even if) it reduces the size of teams, with such changes the AFL would face more difficulty in finding enough quality players to prevent un-competitive teams - which however may keep TV audiences up by providing more games to watch for fans of viable teams.

There is no doubt that sports which have tried this route in the face of such challenges have lost a lot of their appeal or distinctiveness - think of the history of cricket since the first one-day games in the 1960s - and have not spread to new markets significantly enough to make one think the cost is justified (though the changes from first-class to 20/20 cricket may have attracted the present-oriented baby boom generation and its successor “Generation Me”). In the case of the AFL, I am tempted to think that the changes it has made and wants to make serve to heighten the gap between the inner-city “policy culture” including the AFL and its clubs along with other government and academic institutions, and the primarily outer-suburban and ultraconservative “community culture” which tends to dislike the kind of promotion one sees of games at Docklands on TV. Australian football, being less violent and less sensationalist than most alternatives, is more likely to appeal to this “community culture” that more telegenic sports may not tap.
 
Re: Is the AFL in trouble in spite of its crowds?

The question of why the NRL does not attract crowds like the AFL seems to bother and irritate a lot of people.

However, the way the AFL seems so keen on changing the game and its rules (reducing games from 100 to 80 minutes playing time, with further reductions expected, and the move to a smaller stadium with the closure of Waverley and opening of Docklands) suggests that the AFL is desperately obsessed with the inability of Australian football to play well on television. The AFL feared and fears that if it cannot make Australian Rules play as well on television as major international sports like basketball, rugby union, rugby league and even soccer, it will lose its audience to those sports which play best on TV.

I think you're right in the sense that the AFL attempted to make the game more 'accessible' on TV by shortening the quarters, however "desperately obsessed" is a big exaggeration. The AFL knows that the market demand for TV rights is the biggest indicator of TV viewability rather than just TV ratings, so they would be very comfortable over the last few years that the game is on the right track.
 
Re: Is the AFL in trouble in spite of its crowds?

reducing games from 100 to 80 minutes .

The timing of games was reduced to maintain the overall game time that was blowing out .

move to a smaller stadium with the closure of Waverley

Political force determined that the MCG takes over from Waverley and the AFL takeover Docklands from soccer .

The AFL feared and fears that if it cannot make Australian Rules play as well on television ...

Don't you think $1.25 billion squashed those fears !
 

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I realise it's been tough for you living a period of your life where your code is not the number one game in town.

Huh ? My code is the number one code in the country .
It's played at an elite level throughout the country .
It draws three times the attendances of the nearest code .
It rates the highest in the country and has just secured $1.25 billion for it's media rights .It's expanding with two new teams .New participation has outsripped it's rival for the last 5 years .Perth and Adelaide are getting new stadia whilst Geelong at Carrara have recieved major upgrades .The AFL has established academies around the country and pathways from other countries .The present has never been stronger and the future brighter .

Life is not tough ! Deffinitely not .

I find it amusing that these same people cant distinguish between two vastly different codes of sport in rugby union and rugby league.

I find it idiotic that some people cannot accept the simple fact that rl broke away from RU and both are rugby .
 
Nice racist overtones there bdiddy

Rugby League broke away from rugby union, but they are now seperate sports, one is 'Rugby' the other is 'League'
 
Re: Is the AFL in trouble in spite of its crowds?

The question of why the NRL does not attract crowds like the AFL seems to bother and irritate a lot of people.

However, the way the AFL seems so keen on changing the game and its rules (reducing games from 100 to 80 minutes playing time, with further reductions expected, and the move to a smaller stadium with the closure of Waverley and opening of Docklands) suggests that the AFL is desperately obsessed with the inability of Australian football to play well on television. The AFL feared and fears that if it cannot make Australian Rules play as well on television as major international sports like basketball, rugby union, rugby league and even soccer, it will lose its audience to those sports which play best on TV.

Having watched games from before the AFL made its first change, I cannot say it makes as much difference as the AFL would probably like. The one improvement for ease of appreciation on TV is that the game is more stop-start with a roofed stadium where you cannot get wet games that discourage such play. If the AFL wants Australian Rules to play as well on TV as basketball or the rugby codes, it would need to shorten grounds a lot more and make games so much shorter that the game could lose a lot more than the variety already lost with a roofed stadium. Unless (and probably even if) it reduces the size of teams, with such changes the AFL would face more difficulty in finding enough quality players to prevent un-competitive teams - which however may keep TV audiences up by providing more games to watch for fans of viable teams.

There is no doubt that sports which have tried this route in the face of such challenges have lost a lot of their appeal or distinctiveness - think of the history of cricket since the first one-day games in the 1960s - and have not spread to new markets significantly enough to make one think the cost is justified (though the changes from first-class to 20/20 cricket may have attracted the present-oriented baby boom generation and its successor “Generation Me”). In the case of the AFL, I am tempted to think that the changes it has made and wants to make serve to heighten the gap between the inner-city “policy culture” including the AFL and its clubs along with other government and academic institutions, and the primarily outer-suburban and ultraconservative “community culture” which tends to dislike the kind of promotion one sees of games at Docklands on TV. Australian football, being less violent and less sensationalist than most alternatives, is more likely to appeal to this “community culture” that more telegenic sports may not tap.

:confused::confused::confused::confused:
 
yep

doesnt change the fact that they are colloquially (sp) known as "league" or "Union/Rugby" and referring to them all as rugby shows a level of ignorance.

IMO anyway
 
Rugby League people constantly flag that their code rates very well on television. However, the game only runs for 80 minutes, and is played in two continuous 40 minute increments. This seriously diminishes from the NRL's ability to extract money from the advertising 'dollar.'

AFL viewership is simply more valuable than RL viewership.

For what it's worth, I've always believed that Rugby League would be the ultimate amateur sport. Union reflects much better as a professional code, particularly given the spectacle that the RWC provides. The codes got it wrong.
 
Re: Is the AFL in trouble in spite of its crowds?

The question of why the NRL does not attract crowds like the AFL seems to bother and irritate a lot of people.

However, the way the AFL seems so keen on changing the game and its rules (reducing games from 100 to 80 minutes playing time, with further reductions expected, and the move to a smaller stadium with the closure of Waverley and opening of Docklands) suggests that the AFL is desperately obsessed with the inability of Australian football to play well on television. The AFL feared and fears that if it cannot make Australian Rules play as well on television as major international sports like basketball, rugby union, rugby league and even soccer, it will lose its audience to those sports which play best on TV.

Having watched games from before the AFL made its first change, I cannot say it makes as much difference as the AFL would probably like. The one improvement for ease of appreciation on TV is that the game is more stop-start with a roofed stadium where you cannot get wet games that discourage such play. If the AFL wants Australian Rules to play as well on TV as basketball or the rugby codes, it would need to shorten grounds a lot more and make games so much shorter that the game could lose a lot more than the variety already lost with a roofed stadium. Unless (and probably even if) it reduces the size of teams, with such changes the AFL would face more difficulty in finding enough quality players to prevent un-competitive teams - which however may keep TV audiences up by providing more games to watch for fans of viable teams.

There is no doubt that sports which have tried this route in the face of such challenges have lost a lot of their appeal or distinctiveness - think of the history of cricket since the first one-day games in the 1960s - and have not spread to new markets significantly enough to make one think the cost is justified (though the changes from first-class to 20/20 cricket may have attracted the present-oriented baby boom generation and its successor “Generation Me”). In the case of the AFL, I am tempted to think that the changes it has made and wants to make serve to heighten the gap between the inner-city “policy culture” including the AFL and its clubs along with other government and academic institutions, and the primarily outer-suburban and ultraconservative “community culture” which tends to dislike the kind of promotion one sees of games at Docklands on TV. Australian football, being less violent and less sensationalist than most alternatives, is more likely to appeal to this “community culture” that more telegenic sports may not tap.

Couple of quick things.

1. The reduction of the match time from 25 minute quarters to 20 minutes also included a provision to include time when the ball was out of play as time on. Prior to this rule change, if the ball was out of bounds, the clock continued the run. Time would only be added on after goals and behinds. As a result, quarters then and quarters now tend to run at the same overall length of time.

2. I understand the point that you are trying to make with regards to making the game fit better with TV coverage, you don't actually list any rules and how they make a difference to the TV coverage?

The truth is most rule changes over the past 15 years have been technicalities: Interchange bench; Hands in the back, etc. The game, remains, at its' heart, kick or handpass to teammate, repeat, goal. It is the nature of the sport itself, having to deal with close-shot handpasses and marking contests and wide-shot kicks that present the most difficulty in developing a fluid TV broadcast, and that is something that will not change.
 
doesnt change the fact that they are colloquially (sp) known as "league"

That just emphasises your ignorance of AR as any AR person refers to "league" as a simile for "structure" ,usually the highest structure .
Most players aspire to league level in the highest league not reserves level or seconds or colts .

I find it completely hysterical that you can apparently play league in the reserves in Rugby Football...................league .
 
That just emphasises your ignorance of AR as any AR person refers to "league" as a simile for "structure" ,usually the highest structure .
Most players aspire to league level in the highest league not reserves level or seconds or colts .

I find it completely hysterical that you can apparently play league in the reserves in Rugby Football...................league .
The code was formed by in-bred Yorkshiremen. What do you expect.
 

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Nice racist overtones there bdiddy

Rugby League broke away from rugby union, but they are now seperate sports, one is 'Rugby' the other is 'League'

They are both rugby, but two versions. One is rugby union, the other is rugby league. One is referred to as rugby, the other referred to as league, but they are both rugby.
 
Nice racist overtones there bdiddy

Rugby League broke away from rugby union, but they are now seperate sports, one is 'Rugby' the other is 'League'

WTF??!?! Since when has 'mungo' been a racist remark??? Mungo or Rah Rah. League or Union. Help me out here??

Also, why is it that every other country seems to be able to cope with the technicalities and tactics/ gameplay of Rugby Union yet in this country we can't???
 
WTF??!?! Since when has 'mungo' been a racist remark??? Mungo or Rah Rah. League or Union. Help me out here??

Also, why is it that every other country seems to be able to cope with the technicalities and tactics/ gameplay of Rugby Union yet in this country we can't???

Yeah i dont get it, its easy, one sniffs bums the other penetrates them :p
 
Re: Is the AFL in trouble in spite of its crowds?

2. I understand the point that you are trying to make with regards to making the game fit better with TV coverage, you don't actually list any rules and how they make a difference to the TV coverage?

The truth is most rule changes over the past 15 years have been technicalities: Interchange bench; Hands in the back, etc. The game, remains, at its' heart, kick or handpass to teammate, repeat, goal. It is the nature of the sport itself, having to deal with close-shot handpasses and marking contests and wide-shot kicks that present the most difficulty in developing a fluid TV broadcast, and that is something that will not change.
Actually, what I think the AFL has changed most to improve its ability to play on television - and what I think determines this most of all - is not the rules but the playing conditions. One should not assume that a game played in an indoor closed roof stadium will be the same as one played in an open roof stadium of considerably larger size, especially when as with Waverley that open roof stadium is in a fairly wet climate.

Your are right that it is the wide-shot kicks that made Australian Rules play so badly on TV in the past that the AFL is eager to eliminate. This problem is present to some extent in soccer, but is virtually absent from rugby or gridiron codes and absolutely absent from basketball and similar sports - which I have always assumed is why the last named play so perfectly on TV. What I was getting at is, if the AFL alters playing conditions enough to eliminate these wide-shot kicks, whether or not the game could lose or alienate its core following?
 
Re: Is the AFL in trouble in spite of its crowds?

Actually, what I think the AFL has changed most to improve its ability to play on television - and what I think determines this most of all - is not the rules but the playing conditions. One should not assume that a game played in an indoor closed roof stadium will be the same as one played in an open roof stadium of considerably larger size, especially when as with Waverley that open roof stadium is in a fairly wet climate.

Your are right that it is the wide-shot kicks that made Australian Rules play so badly on TV in the past that the AFL is eager to eliminate. This problem is present to some extent in soccer, but is virtually absent from rugby or gridiron codes and absolutely absent from basketball and similar sports - which I have always assumed is why the last named play so perfectly on TV. What I was getting at is, if the AFL alters playing conditions enough to eliminate these wide-shot kicks, whether or not the game could lose or alienate its core following?


seriously what planet are you on? Where can you even start with this post?

2 little points, out of about 100...

1. There is ONE venue in the entire league with a roof on it: and the roof isnt always closed anyways. There are TEN other venues used SGC, homebush, Cairns, GC, Gabba, Launcestorn, Mcg, FootyPark, Subi, Darwin that dont have a roof. Waverely, you might note, is not wone of the venues used this year. I leave it to you to work out why.

and
2. "changing playing conditions to elminate these wide-shot kicks" ? what does that even mean??? What? the AFL are trying to remove shots at goal from angles? or make players kick straight down the ground? Do you actually know ANYTHING about Australian Football at all? You sound horribly out of your depth. If you mean Wide-angle shots, well thats because the game is played on a big field and the ball actually moves more than 2feet at a time (unlikie League).. this aspect is what allows for beig spectaular marks, and fast ball movement up and down the ground. Its not considered a 'problem'. Its considered brilliant. Its a bit hard to capture on TV sometimes but mostly ok. Its not as if the league would aim to removie it.. infact, this year, changes to the interchange rule were (amongst other things) hoped to encourage MORE OF IT!!!.

My suggestion is that you watch a bit of AFL and get to understand how the game is played, and then come back and make comments about what makes it right/wrong or what the AFL 'is tryting to do with playing conditions'
 
Huh ? My code is the number one code in the country .
It's played at an elite level throughout the country .
It draws three times the attendances of the nearest code .
It rates the highest in the country and has just secured $1.25 billion for it's media rights .It's expanding with two new teams .New participation has outsripped it's rival for the last 5 years .Perth and Adelaide are getting new stadia whilst Geelong at Carrara have recieved major upgrades .The AFL has established academies around the country and pathways from other countries .The present has never been stronger and the future brighter .

Life is not tough ! Deffinitely not .

Strong post. I wonder why no one has addressed it. :confused:
 
WTF??!?! Since when has 'mungo' been a racist remark??? Mungo or Rah Rah. League or Union. Help me out here??

Also, why is it that every other country seems to be able to cope with the technicalities and tactics/ gameplay of Rugby Union yet in this country we can't???
Probably because the term 'Mungo' was a term used by your classic Rugby Union type in days past, to describe the largely working class rugby league people, comparing them unfavourably to remains found at lake Mungo (obviously being ancient indiginous remains). Show's the sort of attitude these types had towards those who werent upper class and white. As a Union fan on a different forum said, it's an archaic term used only by arseholes (much like gayfl or some other such rubbish). Just a heads up!
 
Probably because the term 'Mungo' was a term used by your classic Rugby Union type in days past, to describe the largely working class rugby league people, comparing them unfavourably to remains found at lake Mungo (obviously being ancient indiginous remains). Show's the sort of attitude these types had towards those who werent upper class and white. As a Union fan on a different forum said, it's an archaic term used only by arseholes (much like gayfl or some other such rubbish). Just a heads up!

Lolwut?

I have only ever heard "Mungo" used by players/supporters of League.
 
Probably because the term 'Mungo' was a term used by your classic Rugby Union type in days past, to describe the largely working class rugby league people, comparing them unfavourably to remains found at lake Mungo (obviously being ancient indiginous remains). Show's the sort of attitude these types had towards those who werent upper class and white. As a Union fan on a different forum said, it's an archaic term used only by arseholes (much like gayfl or some other such rubbish). Just a heads up!

Well consider me an arseh*le then...:D
 
I had never heard it at all............not often you learn something on BF.

Quite so .
Obviously a term of endearment .
If you were one imagine all the welfare payments you'd be entitled to .
The Mungo themed round played on the sacred Mungo lake .
The stats on the number of Mungo players etc
 

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