Tasmania AFL Say No To Tassie Team

[Colonial]

Where would the 20th team be based then?

Hey i want 22 teams. So every team plays each other once.

Tassie, Canberra, WA3 and well i havent got a 4th yet.

 

[Lemma]

And still a top 8? That would mean a lot of dead rubbers. I guess that's a different argument

 

[Colonial]

And still a top 8? That would mean a lot of dead rubbers. I guess that's a different argument

Top 10

 

[madmug]

True, but they wouldn't have the added expense of maintaining 2 'homes'.




Did you miss this bit?



Not that St Kilda is a great example...After all, they're practicably bankrupt and losing a lot of money, although they are in a market that's got a lot more growth potential than Tasmania.

You missed the fact their are no costs in maintaining two grounds to the club/clubs playing here.

StKilda & others have had over 100 years in a city 7-8 times bigger now than when they started before WW1. How much longer do we wait for them to double their income relative to the other 9 clubs in the vicinity?

 

[Kwality]

Where would the 20th team be based then?

2 more teams, you blokes are fair dinkum vandals ... you want a lower standard of play.

 

[telsor]

You missed the fact their are no costs in maintaining two grounds to the club/clubs playing here.

StKilda & others have had over 100 years in a city 7-8 times bigger now than when they started before WW1. How much longer do we wait for them to double their income relative to the other 9 clubs in the vicinity?

There is no cost to travel between the two venues with the whole entourage that goes with home games (selling merch & entertaining sponsors & premium members requires people after all...There is a reason clubs spend millions doing it)?

Moving 50-75 people (and accommodating them overnight if it's a night game) as well as the usual stuff that goes with them (merchandise, promotional materials for club & sponsors, etc) usually comes with some expense.

The point is St Kilda CAN (and most likely will) grow relative to the Tas side you want to replace them with.

Tas doesn't need to make the bottom rung...They need to be up around the middle, because even the bottom teams have more growth potential, so in 20 years time if Tas doesn't have a hell of a head start, they'll be left in the dust.

You might want to reread Gil's comment..
"brutal reality right now, the economy and scale of growth mean they financially can't support their own team playing 11 games, you need $45 million"

The lack of growth in Tas is a factor here in working out how much money they need to start with.

Edited to add.

I did some quick numbers.

If St Kilda maintains market share and grows it's revenue at the rate of the Vic economy, in 20 years, they'll have ~52M in revenue.

For a Tas team to match that, they'd need to have started (last year) with $39M

Of course, after 20 years, they'd have the lowest income and be getting worse with little chance of making up the difference.

 

[BobbyMorri]

One problem with Australian Rules in Tasmania is AFL Tasmania. They are so divisive.

Its amazing, the soccer statewide league is going great, South Hobart been fantastic on the national stage and only one team has been cut.

compare that to the Aussie one, and i hardly know what is going on with all the teams merging or changing. Wish i knew what the difference was between the 2. maybe lower expectations, a clear defined goal, a competent administration which listens. im not really close to either league, so i am really just guessing.

the sad fact is, until another sport takes root and threatens AFL position in this state, the AFL will continue to rape us for all it is worth.

 

[madmug]

There is no cost to travel between the two venues with the whole entourage that goes with home games (selling merch & entertaining sponsors & premium members requires people after all...There is a reason clubs spend millions doing it)?

Moving 50-75 people (and accommodating them overnight if it's a night game) as well as the usual stuff that goes with them (merchandise, promotional materials for club & sponsors, etc) usually comes with some expense.

The point is St Kilda CAN (and most likely will) grow relative to the Tas side you want to replace them with.

Tas doesn't need to make the bottom rung...They need to be up around the middle, because even the bottom teams have more growth potential, so in 20 years time if Tas doesn't have a hell of a head start, they'll be left in the dust.

You might want to reread Gil's comment..
"brutal reality right now, the economy and scale of growth mean they financially can't support their own team playing 11 games, you need $45 million"

The lack of growth in Tas is a factor here in working out how much money they need to start with.

Edited to add.

I did some quick numbers.

If St Kilda maintains market share and grows it's revenue at the rate of the Vic economy, in 20 years, they'll have ~52M in revenue.

For a Tas team to match that, they'd need to have started (last year) with $39M

Of course, after 20 years, they'd have the lowest income and be getting worse with little chance of making up the difference.

You are just applying your hopeful imagination again. I just said Melbourne has grown 7-8 fold since before WW1 & StKilda are still a basket case, 27 wooden spoons & one flag by 1 point. Its logical to see the imbalance in the 10 teams in one market will continue on as it has for 100 years. Melbourne could have 8 million people & some clubs will still struggle. Why cant you see the reality of that fact. Its just a continuation of the last 100 years. Your imagination wont fix that. Some clubs are going backwards relative to others. Thats a fact.

Tasmania needs a team. It will help with social unity. It will get a dream run by Gument because of the social equity it offers & it fits in with our push into tourism & media exposure. Our environment, our scenery, our quality seafoods, farm produce, wines & whiskeys etc will all benefit. Accommodation here is on an upward trajectory already, football will add to that. So Gument & business will work with it hand in glove. Our Premier corrected McLachlan & said we can afford it. Economists said we can afford it. We have the infrastructure that will get a make over to maximise their appeal & facility.

Tasmania will not shrivel up & blow away. As a Niche market it is on an upward trajectory. Its about quality, not quantity.

You are just stuck in a VFL paradigm.

 

[madmug]

One problem with Australian Rules in Tasmania is AFL Tasmania. They are so divisive.

Its amazing, the soccer statewide league is going great, South Hobart been fantastic on the national stage and only one team has been cut.

compare that to the Aussie one, and i hardly know what is going on with all the teams merging or changing. Wish i knew what the difference was between the 2. maybe lower expectations, a clear defined goal, a competent administration which listens. im not really close to either league, so i am really just guessing.

the sad fact is, until another sport takes root and threatens AFL position in this state, the AFL will continue to rape us for all it is worth.

As a person who has watch both footy & soccer since the 1970's. Local soccer is in the same position as Footy. In Hobart footy club crowds were 1500 to 5000, Gf 20000. These days its been 300-1000, with 6-7000 at the GF.

Local soccer at KGV had hundreds on saturdays, maybe 1000. Ive been a few times this year & seen 50 -100.

All local sport has lost ground to TV, shopping, work etc, etc.

The A-league practise match gets a good turn out 2-3k. Collingwood played Hawthorn preseason & got 17000.

I wouldnt worry about soccer. The AFL wouldnt be either

 

[telsor]

You are just applying your hopeful imagination again. I just said Melbourne has grown 7-8 fold since before WW1 & StKilda are still a basket case, 27 wooden spoons & one flag by 1 point. Its logical to see the imbalance in the 10 teams in one market will continue on as it has for 100 years. Melbourne could have 8 million people & some clubs will still struggle. Why cant you see the reality of that fact. Its just a continuation of the last 100 years. Your imagination wont fix that. Some clubs are going backwards relative to others. Thats a fact.

I'm not denying that they'll probably always be a small club relative to others in Melbourne.
I'm comparing them to a Tasmanian team.

Tasmania needs a team. It will help with social unity. It will get a dream run by Gument because of the social equity it offers & it fits in with our push into tourism & media exposure. Our environment, our scenery, our quality seafoods, farm produce, wines & whiskeys etc will all benefit. Accommodation here is on an upward trajectory already, football will add to that. So Gument & business will work with it hand in glove. Our Premier corrected McLachlan & said we can afford it. Economists said we can afford it. We have the infrastructure that will get a make over to maximise their appeal & facility.

Not sure what your point is here. That the AFL should do it to help Tasmania, or that a team will somehow spawn some kind of golden age in Tas. Neither is true however.

Tasmania will not shrivel up & blow away. As a Niche market it is on an upward trajectory. Its about quality, not quantity.

You are just stuck in a VFL paradigm.

Upward trajectory? How so? All official estimates have Tasmania shrinking (in relative terms, some in absolute terms)

 

[Kwality]

Top 10

Why discriminate, put all the teams in the finals ..... add a couple of amateurs teams on a rotation basis. No more teams please.

 

[Colonial]

Why discriminate, put all the teams in the finals ..... add a couple of amateurs teams on a rotation basis. No more teams please.

Only way we will get an even schedule is to either drop the games or teams or add to 22 and play each other once.

Hate to tell you this Kwality but there will always be shit teams no matter the number.
Just as there is in every sporting competition in the world.
As for quality. Looking at games in the past the quality is better now more than ever. The tactics on the other hand.....

 

[Kwality]

Only way we will get an even schedule is to either drop the games or teams or add to 22 and play each other once.

Hate to tell you this Kwality but there will always be shit teams no matter the number.
Just as there is in every sporting competition in the world.
As for quality. Looking at games in the past the quality is better now more than ever. The tactics on the other hand.....

You want more shit players, I want an elite competition. IF its shit you want follow the 2nd tier comp, its fun just the skills, the skills

The State based competitions all suffered from skills deficits, the national comp was supposed to be the best of the best & we added two underage squads, down, down, down ...

Its OK to make hard decisions.

 

[Colonial]

You want more shit players, I want an elite competition. IF its shit you want follow the 2nd tier comp, its fun just the skills, the skills

The State based competitions all suffered from skills deficits, the national comp was supposed to be the bst of the best & we added two underage squads, down, down, down ...

Its OK to make hard decisions.

Please show me a time when there wasnt shit clubs and players in the comp? Any comp or sport for that matter

 

[Colonial]

Wait there was super league in 97 that had the same idea. No shit teams then
Except the rams, mariners, reds etc etc

 

[madmug]

I'm not denying that they'll probably always be a small club relative to others in Melbourne.
I'm comparing them to a Tasmanian team.




Not sure what your point is here. That the AFL should do it to help Tasmania, or that a team will somehow spawn some kind of golden age in Tas. Neither is true however.



Upward trajectory? How so? All official estimates have Tasmania shrinking (in relative terms, some in absolute terms)

I am looking at the position a Tasmanian team would find itself. At the centre of the community, public support, business support, Gument support. Why do you think Geelong & even Townsville get such great support in smaller region? Because they are a single team representing the area, not one of 9 fighting for clear air.

Official estimates 5 years ago didnt have the economic struggle we find ourselves now in. Estimates are just that. Extrapolations of the then data. Tasmania is improving. It will have its ups & downs like islands & regions do. It wont just shrink & die off. It has a point of difference to Sydney & Melbourne so it will function just nicely over time.

 

[telsor]

I am looking at the position a Tasmanian team would find itself. At the centre of the community, public support, business support, Gument support. Why do you think Geelong & even Townsville get such great support in smaller region? Because they are a single team representing the area, not one of 9 fighting for clear air.

Official estimates 5 years ago didnt have the economic struggle we find ourselves now in. Estimates are just that. Extrapolations of the then data. Tasmania is improving. It will have its ups & downs like islands & regions do. It wont just shrink & die off. It has a point of difference to Sydney & Melbourne so it will function just nicely over time.

A Tas team wouldn't be separate form the rest, any more than a Vic team is.

Geelong and Townsville are CITIES, not a state. You seem to think they're the same thing (when it helps you), but remember that Geelong is closer to Melbourne than Hobart is to Launceston.

Tasmania is a touch under 1.6% of the national economy (and shrinking), you can argue all you like about estimates and the degree of support, but if the pie is too small, you're not going to get a big enough slice out of it.

 

[madmug]

A Tas team wouldn't be separate form the rest, any more than a Vic team is.

Geelong and Townsville are CITIES, not a state. You seem to think they're the same thing (when it helps you), but remember that Geelong is closer to Melbourne than Hobart is to Launceston.

Tasmania is a touch under 1.6% of the national economy (and shrinking), you can argue all you like about estimates and the degree of support, but if the pie is too small, you're not going to get a big enough slice out of it.

St Kilda is a suburb but it has support from other areas across Melbourne. Townsville gets support from across FNQ, Geelong has support from Melbourne to SW Victoria. Tasmania is a relatively small area. It is small enough to get to a game & home in a day, or less for most people. So it too is a footy region, well able to support a team.

Given a GSP of over $25billion, why is footy team too expensive?

 

[telsor]

St Kilda is a suburb but it has support from other areas across Melbourne. Townsville gets support from across FNQ, Geelong has support from Melbourne to SW Victoria. Tasmania is a relatively small area. It is small enough to get to a game & home in a day, or less for most people. So it too is a footy region, well able to support a team.

Given a GSP of over $25billion, why is footy team too expensive?

Given a GSP of $343billion, why are 10 considered too much in Vic?

Given WA has a GSP of $256billion, why don't they get 10 if Tas can afford 1?

 

[madmug]

Given a GSP of $343billion, why are 10 considered too much in Vic?

Given WA has a GSP of $256billion, why don't they get 10 if Tas can afford 1?

Because in Victoria, as has have been shown, its not an even spread of opportunity. Many of the clubs attract well under the support of other clubs. So a simplistic average doesnt apply. Yes, WA is under represented, as has also been shown numerous times.

A Tasmanian team would be at the centre of attention & support in this footy region. Like Geelong, Like Townsville, like Newcastle. They are at the heart of communities & so get support above what they might expect based on the averages in Melbourne of Sydney teams in sport.

The effect of a Tasmanian cricket team has allowed the development of Blundstone Oval. You dont think our own team would not stimulate more economic attention & Attendance to AFL games in both Hobart & Launceston?

 

[sherb]

The effect of a Tasmanian cricket team has allowed the development of Blundstone Oval. You dont think our own team would not stimulate more economic attention & Attendance to AFL games in both Hobart & Launceston?

Despite the first Australian first-class match being played in Tasmania in 1850-51, it took cricket's governing body 85 years to admit Tassie into the Sheffield Shield (from 1892-93 to 1977-78).
Up until its inclusion, the State (or a Combined XI) got token first-class matches against touring sides. Plus it was given a place in the new one-day competition in 1969-70. Throw in the occasional first-class match against another state and that was it.

For a state that was cricket mad, this was appalling neglect by cricket's governing body. It sounds like the AFL is following cricket's template of how to treat Tasmania.

 

[walhawk]

There is no reason not to have 19 teams (AFL wants 2 byes anyway).
Here is my timeline for TAS19.
2019 AFL announce Tasmania to enter AFL in 2023 with next broadcast deal.
2020/21 U18sw play full time in TAC Cup
2022 Tas play in VFL
2023 Enter AFL
Club HQ @ Hobart
Games to be split 50/50 Hobart/Launceston forever. Finals also alternate with PFs to be played wherever biggest capacity.
Aurora given a basic upgrade to 30K (re-do outer wing). Belrieve has poor access & space to 25K might be max. All going well by 2030 upgrade Aurora to 40K (to be used for finals).

If Hawks & North can draw 15K v interstate teams with zero travellers/Tas fans, then a TAS team will easily draw 20 - 25K each week. They will add 1/19th to the AFL pie.
Will add colour, history and lock in our code as the national winter game.

 

[madmug]

There is no reason not to have 19 teams (AFL wants 2 byes anyway).
Here is my timeline for TAS19.
2019 AFL announce Tasmania to enter AFL in 2023 with next broadcast deal.
2020/21 U18sw play full time in TAC Cup
2022 Tas play in VFL
2023 Enter AFL
Club HQ @ Hobart
Games to be split 50/50 Hobart/Launceston forever. Finals also alternate with PFs to be played wherever biggest capacity.
Aurora given a basic upgrade to 30K (re-do outer wing). Belrieve has poor access & space to 25K might be max. All going well by 2030 upgrade Aurora to 40K (to be used for finals).

If Hawks & North can draw 15K v interstate teams with zero travellers/Tas fans, then a TAS team will easily draw 20 - 25K each week. They will add 1/19th to the AFL pie.
Will add colour, history and lock in our code as the national winter game.

Thats fine.

Just tell Gil 'head up his myopic & selfish corporate arse' McLachlan.

 

[walhawk]

Thats fine.

Just tell Gil 'head up his myopic & selfish corporate arse' McLachlan.

If he has balls he will do it.
It can be his legacy.
Or the next guy's legacy.

Why is there no push from Tasmania for a team.

In the NRL there are a dozen or so syndicates prepared to back the next team (2 in Brisbane, Central Coast, Perth, NZ, Port Moresby, etc), but everyone in Tas seems to back the AFL party line, which is strange given that AFL has destoyed local footy there.

 

[sherb]

Why is there no push from Tasmania for a team.

Nothing in it from a business point of view. Which is obviously how the AFL views it.

It seems lost on them (and the posters here who argue against a Tassie side based on corporate criteria) that they are also responsible for the health of the game itself.