Expansion AFl says 2nd team in Sydney by 2015

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Ancient and Loyal said:
Which teams in Northern Sydney did I miss Cos?

Please show me whatever resource your using so I can be as up to date as you.

It's a perfectly valid point btw. AFL has an extremely long history in Sydney and at one point was even threatening Rugby to be the biggest sport in the Sydney. Rugby League simply didn't exist in Melbourne until the 1980's. The Swans had the long and proud history of clubs like Waratah to build on. If the Storm are still drawing 10,000 to their games and haven't produced any local juniors in a dozen years, then they can be fairly branded a failure.
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Efforts to establish rugby league in Melbourne were made though in the first few decades of the game - principally by Harry Sunderland who was head of the Victorian Rugby League for a time.

Two early Lions tours from England each included a match in Melbourne, the most famous being the first in 1914 (between England and NSW).

"I shall never forget the sight of the two packs standing up to each other in some real all-in stuff, with a tremendous crowd cheering like mad because they thought it was all in the game!".

So said British captain Harold Wagstaff reflecting on the first Rugby League match played in Melbourne in 1914. The "favourable" impression of rugby league on 12,000 spectators didn't last and the game failed to take hold in Melbourne.

Efforts were again made in the 1920s, led by Sunderland and Harry Caples, to establish rugby league in the southern city.

In 1924 Victoria played against the visiting English Lions on the first game of their tour (losing 45-13 at Fitzroy Cricket Ground) and the famed Toowoomba club from Queensland (losing again 47-18).

Their efforts were in vain and not long afterwards rugby league permanently disappeared from the sporting fields and newspapers of Melbourne.
The odd match was taken to Melbourne over the following decades - the most notorious being in 1979 when Manly and Wests initiated their 'fibros v silvertails' battles.

from melbourne storm's official site.


Fail
 
How? My point has been reinforced. A series of exhibition games in the first 20 years of Australian RL and then a 55 year gap does not a history of Rugby League make. That article also fails to mention the combined rules matches played in the 1930's.

The sport didn't exist in Melbourne, simple as that.

Australian Rules was continuously played in both NSW and Queensland for the entire 20th century. In fact, Australian Rules is the only football code that can claimed to have been played continuously in Queensland for the entire century!
 
With 2 established teams in NSW and QLD the AFL will be set for life.


We are already witnessing the demise of Union, and eventually League.

AFL, Soccer then League. That will be the Sporting landscape in 15 years.
 

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A Living God said:
It’s not fair to compare attendance for a season in which on-field performance is dramatically different

Year 1
Swans: 15,993 Storm: 12,717
Year 2
Swans: 12,025 Storm: 12,902 (Storm wins premership, Swans finish 4th last)
Year 3
Swans: 12,497 Storm: 13,756
Year 4
Swans: 15,993 Storm: 11,969
Year 5
Swans: 10,137 Storm: 9,088
Year 6
Swans: 25,819 Storm: 9,626
Year 7
Swans: 22,032 Storm: 8,886
Year 8
Swans: 12,311 Storm: 8,898
Year 9
Swans: 9,178 Storm: 10,853 (Storm finsh 2nd, Swans finish 2nd last)
Year 10
Swans: 11,521 Storm: 11,711 (Storm wins premership, Swans finish 4th last)

In a year where the Storm won the Flag and the Swans could barely win a game, the Storm only outdrew the Swans by 200
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Today I read that the AFL want a second team in Sydney, then a year or so later a second team in Brisbane.
18 bloody teams, it just won,t work . Who is making money out of this ,can someone tell me how this is a good idea,I get more flabbergasted by this expansion thing. Will there ever be another Queensland team to win three premierships in a row NO! Will there ever be another premiership team in NSW NO!Some clubs in Victoria took 70 to 80 years to win their first, some Vic clubs haven't won flags for ,well, Footscray 54 years StKilda
42 years the Dockers are 15 years in, haven,t come close and perhaps this year they will come close, they might win one, but this is a footy state . Well they might only "come close" too.
When do you reckon a Queensland or NSW second side will win a flag and have success
maybe 100 years and at what expense to the current 16 clubs. There is something really stuffed up about this, there is not a big population in Australia.
I can,t beleive people like Demitriou and Fitzpatrick are that stupid ,are they?
 
JoondalupJ said:
Today I read that the AFL want a second team in Sydney, then a year or so later a second team in Brisbane.
18 bloody teams, it just won,t work . Who is making money out of this ,can someone tell me how this is a good idea,I get more flabbergasted by this expansion thing. Will there ever be another Queensland team to win three premierships in a row NO! Will there ever be another premiership team in NSW NO!Some clubs in Victoria took 70 to 80 years to win their first, some Vic clubs haven't won flags for ,well, Footscray 54 years StKilda
42 years the Dockers are 15 years in, haven,t come close and perhaps this year they will come close, they might win one, but this is a footy state . Well they might only "come close" too.
When do you reckon a Queensland or NSW second side will win a flag and have success
maybe 100 years and at what expense to the current 16 clubs. There is something really stuffed up about this, there is not a big population in Australia.
I can,t beleive people like Demitriou and Fitzpatrick are that stupid ,are they?
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There is always one or two reasons NOT to do something.

But, more importantly, there are dozens of reasons to DO something.

Anytime a major change is mooted, people criticize it. People criticized the expansion of the VFL in 1987 saying it was wrong. It was clearly right and the game has boomed ever since.

Human beings by nature are quite conserative and resist change. Who says 18 is too much? Why is it too much? What is 16 the magic number? Since when was 16 so correct? Is it just because you've been used to that number for the last 14 years so you "think" that 16 must be some sort of perfect number?

The game is growing all the time. Participation in NSW/ACT was 38,947 in 2000. Last year it was 106,137. Queensland's participation has grown from 30,120 in 2000 to 82,437 last year. In fact the total increase across ALL states has grown by 31% from 2000 to 2007 and yet the number of clubs in the AFL has remained the same.

The more the game grows, and the bigger it gets the more teams can be sustained.

Expansion of the game is always a good thing and should be encouraged.
 
Dan26 said:
There is always one or two reasons NOT to do something.

But, more importantly, there are dozens of reasons to DO something.

Anytime a major change is mooted, people criticize it. People criticized the expansion of the VFL in 1987 saying it was wrong. It was clearly right and the game has boomed ever since.

Human beings by nature are quite conserative and resist change. Who says 18 is too much? Why is it too much? What is 16 the magic number? Since when was 16 so correct? Is it just because you've been used to that number for the last 14 years so you "think" that 16 must be some sort of perfect number?

The game is growing all the time. Participation in NSW/ACT was 38,947 in 2000. Last year it was 106,137. Queensland's participation has grown from 30,120 in 2000 to 82,437 last year. In fact the total increase across ALL states has grown by 31% from 2000 to 2007 and yet the number of clubs in the AFL has remained the same.

The more the game grows, and the bigger it gets the more teams can be sustained.

Expansion of the game is always a good thing and should be encouraged.
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Pretty much, and that's why there'll be teams out of the Gold Coast and Western Sydney before Jett Buckley starts playing Under 10's.
 
walhawk said:
Spot on Rob.

The Swans are the biggest sporting club in NSW in terms of crowds and membership.

The Storm are the 12th biggest sporting club in Victoria after all AFL clubs & Victory.

Even if the 2nd NSW team is only half as big as the Swans in 20 years, it will still be a relative success in comparison to the mediocre support for most NRL clubs.

And the reason NRL fans don't want it to happen is because they know that that 2nd club will be eventually be bigger than their NRL club.
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You have to laugh at that statement that gets trotted out time after time.

There are 12 measly games of AFL played in NSW (ie 1/3 of Australia) each calendar year.

Of those games, virtually all are on FTA live, and most on Saturday night against the lowest shows of the week. How does the Biggest Sporting Club in NSW perform?

Dead last.

Where is all of the support? All of the supporters are at the ground (minus 1/3 of the crowd which are traveling supporters, or there for a Charity event, or there for free in the corporate areas).

Stop rehashing the propoganda that is fed to you guys out of AFL HQ and then written ad verbatim in your complicit press.

The Swans have made how many finals appearances in a row now? Lets see what happens when they fall off their perch, as you all know what happens here, we don't like following losers like the rustbelt states.
 
HitEmHardFreo said:
When the WS team arrives, prove him right bcos that's what he (you) are on about. That's the challenge. Your fear's palpable, btw.
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The question is that after 20 years in Sydney, the Swans are still at the bottom of the pile on the box. They have made huge strides, but the #1 team in the State??? :p

I knew you couldn't and wouldn't answer the question.

In some countries they call that social conditioning, in others brainwashing.
 
Ronin said:
The question is that after 20 years in Sydney, the Swans are still at the bottom of the pile on the box. They have made huge strides, but the #1 team in the State??? :p

I knew you couldn't and wouldn't answer the question.

In some countries they call that social conditioning, in others brainwashing.
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"Brainwashing" - you should talk. How can the Telegraph do more to prop up the pommy game of Rugby League - despite the fact that crowds are minimal?

Is the Telegraph doing enough for you?

Swans are the number 1 football team in NSW as they are the only professional team in NSW playing Australian Football. The others play pommy games.
 

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harmesy 37 said:
"Brainwashing" - you should talk. How can the Telegraph do more to prop up the pommy game of Rugby League - despite the fact that crowds are minimal?

Is the Telegraph doing enough for you?

Swans are the number 1 football team in NSW as they are the only professional team in NSW playing Australian Football. The others play pommy games.
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The poster stated the the Swans where the #1 Sporting Club in NSW.

I am not arguing about the semantics of what each sport should be called.

Nice diversionary tactic.

So, my question has still not been answered.
 
Ronin said:
The poster stated the the Swans where the #1 Sporting Club in NSW.

I am not arguing about the semantics of what each sport should be called.

Nice diversionary tactic.

So, my question has still not been answered.
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Ronin - The original statement, if you cared to read it, was this:

The Swans are the biggest sporting club in NSW in terms of crowds and membership.

This is in fact true.

If you want to talk about TV rights and what some guy from Channel 9 says I think you need to consider that the AFL's TV rights are worth approximately twice those of the NRL (as Roy Masters tearily pointed out yesterday).

Now there must be some reason for that. After all the big guy from Channel 9 (and RL lover), the late Kerry Packer set the price (and was prepared to pay it).
 
Ronin said:
The question is that after 20 years in Sydney, the Swans are still at the bottom of the pile on the box. They have made huge strides, but the #1 team in the State??? :p

I knew you couldn't and wouldn't answer the question.

In some countries they call that social conditioning, in others brainwashing.
Click to expand...


NSW is the hardest state to crack, yet huge crowds appear every second week for Sydney. They get great corporate support, and once a second team arrives, rivalry will occur. Even though people may not care for AFL, they will most likely pick a team. Like in the NRL I like to see the Bronco's win. This means they will take interest in the games, particulary Sydney Vs West Sydney Games.

You see what we mean, and ofcourse it will lift TV revenue. You are effectively doubling the amount of exposure to the NSW population.
 
Nobody can deny that the most popular football team in NSW in terms of television ratings and average crowds with daylight a distant second and no other team challenging daylight is... anybody??? Yes, that's right, the New South Wales Blues State of Origin team.
 
littleduck said:
Nobody can deny that the most popular football team in NSW in terms of television ratings and average crowds with daylight a distant second and no other team challenging daylight is... anybody??? Yes, that's right, the New South Wales Blues State of Origin team.
Click to expand...

Are they a sporting club though?
 
JF_Bay_22_SCG said:
WTF! You seriously are on drugs!!!! Have you ever caught a train out to Blacktown at peak hour in summer. It is just horrendous!

CityRail is one of the thing I miss least since having moved down here. Those old shabby double decker trains are a disgrace & are often full tue the brim during peak hour. :thumbsdown:

JF
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melbourne 's trains and trams shit all over sydneys public transport system...i use sydney transport every day it is crap
 
Seems they've hit panic stations in the heartland:

0,,5892853,00.jpg


http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23225631-5001023,00.html

AFL invades NSW


By Steve Mascord and Tim Morrissey
February 17, 2008 12:00am

CHIEF executive David Gallop said the National Rugby League would fight for western Sydney as league was warned to marshall its forces against a $100 million-plus AFL push to establish a team in the area.

League officials reacted yesterday to reports that Australian football had brought forward plans to 2012 for a second Sydney team, a year after a new Gold Coast side will join the AFL.

"It's (western Sydney) our heartland and we won't be giving ground easily,'' Gallop told The Sunday Telegraph.

"This is hopefully a reminder to the State Government of the pressure we're under and which has increased since licensed clubs started reducing funding to football clubs - the revenue they have lost from the poker machine takes and smoking bans.''

Parramatta Eels boss Denis Fitzgerald said: "The NRL will be No.1 for the next 10 years. Beyond that, who knows? I can't predict what will happen.

"The AFL is strongly funded, but we always knew they were coming. For the last five years, they've been aggressively working at grassroots level in the western suburbs. We're down on our knees and we've been kicked in the head by the State Government.''

A vast area of western Sydney makes up a "Bermuda Triangle'' for the NRL. To the south at Campbelltown, Wests Tigers play just four home games games a year; to the west, the Panthers are based at Penrith and the Eels at Parramatta, the geographical centre of Sydney.

The AFL will parachute its second Sydney team into Blacktown, the heart of this "Bermuda Triangle''.

Sydney Swans chairman Richard Colless yesterday said his club had been kept in the dark over an AFL Commission decision to fast-track a second team.

"Until we hear officially from the AFL, I don't have anything to say,'' Mr Colless said.

But it's understood the Swans are privately rattled, having only leapt onto the wider sporting consciousness in recent seasons with a grand final victory in 2005, after more than 20 years of toil.

The Swans have advised the AFL that Sydney is not ready for a second team and their monopoly must remain.

But the AFL is hungry to dominate the Australian winter and have already briefed television networks about their intentions in the hope of swelling broadcast dollars which could balloon to $1 billion for five years when the contract is renewed in 2011.

A Channel Nine insider said yesterday a second Sydney team would not raise broadcast revenue much because "the Swans don't rate as it is''.

AFL broadcasting boss Gillon McLachlan said: "We understand the Swans' concerns, but western Sydney is a market that we are only just really starting to get a foothold in. Ultimately, to own and dominate that market, our view is that they need to have a team for themselves.''
 
Sebastian Balboa said:
Seems they've hit panic stations in the heartland:

0,,5892853,00.jpg


http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23225631-5001023,00.html

AFL invades NSW


By Steve Mascord and Tim Morrissey
February 17, 2008 12:00am


CHIEF executive David Gallop said the National Rugby League would fight for western Sydney as league was warned to marshall its forces against a $100 million-plus AFL push to establish a team in the area.
League officials reacted yesterday to reports that Australian football had brought forward plans to 2012 for a second Sydney team, a year after a new Gold Coast side will join the AFL.

"It's (western Sydney) our heartland and we won't be giving ground easily,'' Gallop told The Sunday Telegraph.

"This is hopefully a reminder to the State Government of the pressure we're under and which has increased since licensed clubs started reducing funding to football clubs - the revenue they have lost from the poker machine takes and smoking bans.''

Parramatta Eels boss Denis Fitzgerald said: "The NRL will be No.1 for the next 10 years. Beyond that, who knows? I can't predict what will happen.

"The AFL is strongly funded, but we always knew they were coming. For the last five years, they've been aggressively working at grassroots level in the western suburbs. We're down on our knees and we've been kicked in the head by the State Government.''

A vast area of western Sydney makes up a "Bermuda Triangle'' for the NRL. To the south at Campbelltown, Wests Tigers play just four home games games a year; to the west, the Panthers are based at Penrith and the Eels at Parramatta, the geographical centre of Sydney.

The AFL will parachute its second Sydney team into Blacktown, the heart of this "Bermuda Triangle''.

Sydney Swans chairman Richard Colless yesterday said his club had been kept in the dark over an AFL Commission decision to fast-track a second team.

"Until we hear officially from the AFL, I don't have anything to say,'' Mr Colless said.

But it's understood the Swans are privately rattled, having only leapt onto the wider sporting consciousness in recent seasons with a grand final victory in 2005, after more than 20 years of toil.

The Swans have advised the AFL that Sydney is not ready for a second team and their monopoly must remain.

But the AFL is hungry to dominate the Australian winter and have already briefed television networks about their intentions in the hope of swelling broadcast dollars which could balloon to $1 billion for five years when the contract is renewed in 2011.

A Channel Nine insider said yesterday a second Sydney team would not raise broadcast revenue much because "the Swans don't rate as it is''.

AFL broadcasting boss Gillon McLachlan said: "We understand the Swans' concerns, but western Sydney is a market that we are only just really starting to get a foothold in. Ultimately, to own and dominate that market, our view is that they need to have a team for themselves.''
Click to expand...

It will depend on how long it can continue, economics shows that too much competition will eventually lead to less competition as their may be mergers of sports etc.

Look at future expansion:
AFL: GC, Western Sydney
NRL: CC, Wellington, Perth, Adelaide
A-L: GC, Townsville, 2nd Syd, 2nd Melb, Woll, Canb.

Is there enough money around. By one code moving, you are forcing all the others to go as well. Quick expansion finished off the NSL and NBL, could it do the same to one of the above.
 
My statement that the Swans are the biggest sporting club in NSW in terms of crowds & membership is undeniably true.

But the NRL folk want to point to TV ratings.

Please tell me who is the biggest then if it is not the Swans
NSW Blues are not a club.

Eels?
Bulldogs?
St George?

I'm curious.

And by what measure are they bigger than the Swans?
 

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Expansion AFl says 2nd team in Sydney by 2015

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