AFL to mediate on Warnock deal.

[zero]

Yep good post....Freo are playing a risky game. They stand to lose a bit if Warnock wants out and enters the PSD. But if that's how they want to negotiate, then they have every right.

are we though?

the situation is that robbies trade value is high and his onfield value is low.

he was a speculative pick for the dockers, taken in the 40s, and he hasnt played much this year, with MJ and kepler holding things down and supporting sandilands.

now while he is most likely a loss in that he will never become a first choice ruckman for the dockers as he certainly would have become if he stayed, the fact is he is leaving and the dockers now need to start grooming another ruckman, regardless of what pick they get for warnock

basically, he is no great a loss to the first 22 in 09 and a manageable loss in terms of list development.

conversely, his trade value is sky high. now there is some macintosh talk but lets face it laidley will be crazy to let him go, even for pick 6. if carlton want macintosh then they will have to sweeten pick 6 a great deal, probably with a decent player

so warnock is the best ruckman that can be got this year, and hes young and looks to be a very good ruckman.

and cartlon want him, they have wooed him and offered a big fat salary.

now while it would be crap to lose robbie for nothing, i would be perfectly happy to do that if we are attempting to force carlton to give up pick 6.

the risk is low and the reward great.

so basically i would say "pick 6 for robbie and pick 21, or else he goes and plays for melbourne for free".

and if he goes for free, **** it, no great loss.

 

[chook2734]

This is funny actually... Carlton Offer Warnock a huge deal which puts Melbourne out of the race.... then they tell Freo he isn't worth anything..

Maybe salaries could be linked to what they are worth on the trade table.... and excellant way for to stop clubs from out biding rival clubs, because they would have to cough up higher picks.

Who would have thought, Carlton trying to buy players?

 

[greennick]

To save the integrity of their whole transfer/ drafting system that is a restraint of trade perhaps.

How is that so? If Freo wants to pay him 350k, the same as Carlton is going to (on the books at least), then there is no restraint to his earnings capacity. The only restraint is on Carlton and I can't really see them suing the AFL.

 

[nut]

I think the AFL stepping is a long term move to set a precedent for when the new clubs come in...


Warnock is not worth pick 6 ...... but atleast under 20 and closer to Pick 15 then anything.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

So, is this a case of the AFL being favourable to Carltank again, or is it a situation of the AFL just feeling sorry for Freo and therefore making sure they arent ripped off this time.

It is about time the AFL stepped in early on trade week (what a waste of a week), and made the "certain" trades go through quickly.

It has been proven in the past that once a few trades go through, things open up a bit and business starts occurring between other clubs.

Still, hope he goes to Carltank, he is an unproven hack that will do nothing but drag them down, and its another draft pick they will not have and will hurt them long term.

It amazes me how much hypocrisy exists around here. In your first paragraph, either Carlton are being favoured by the AFL or Freo being saved by the AFL .... indicating that Warnock is worth more than Pick 24.

In your last paragraph Warnock is an unproven hack who will hurt Carlton long term.

You have a foot in both camps so you can throw out the negatives whichever way it goes.

This is the issue here. I would estimate that half of the people on BigFooty think that Pick 24 is more than reasonable compensation, whereas the other half want Freo to stand firm and ask for more.

I don't see any of these people offering up any more than Melbourne's Pick 17, which is not that far away from us anyway.

 

[greennick]

Which deal is this... Seaby? Is Richmond Seaby's choice of employment or is it just Richmond showing interest?

If you sign up to play AFL, you don't get to chose where you get to play. No court would step in and stop this, they would have no grounds to. You get to chose how much you get paid at least, so there is no restraint to your earnings (other than the salary cap, but that is not a personal restraint).

 

[kalliscj]

Carlton should stand firm.
And if Fremantle do not like it I hope that Warnock Walks.

Fremantle have a proven track record of being stupid during Trade Week time.

PS we ain't got a 30+ year old hack to offer Freo, so how can we satisfy their needs

 

[inyourcool]

How is that so? If Freo wants to pay him 350k, the same as Carlton is going to (on the books at least), then there is no restraint to his earnings capacity. The only restraint is on Carlton and I can't really see them suing the AFL.

Besides the fact you're being forced to ply your trade 3000km from where you want to be and on the other side of the country!

Hardly restraint! You lose

 

[chook2734]

So does that mean we are obliged to offer pick 6?! Get a grip!

No, it means you are obliged to actually consider some form of negotiation, and when you are informed that pick 24 is not sufficient, perhaps try to find something that might be deemed to add some value to that pick. Carlton are being more stubborn than anyone in this deal. They offered pick 24 a week ago, and are still not interested in increasing that offer.

 

[Da Bull]

How is that so? If Freo wants to pay him 350k, the same as Carlton is going to (on the books at least), then there is no restraint to his earnings capacity. The only restraint is on Carlton and I can't really see them suing the AFL.

The restraint is not on his earning capabilities or capacities it's on his freedom to move when out of contract.

 

[TOA.]

Not sure if this has been mentioned on here but Steven Icke was on Perth radio last night and said that he had made a point of asking what other clubs thought was fair for Warnock and they all said pick 24. That made the Blues stick their heals in even more. They believe pick 24 is good value in this draft and equates to something like pick 15 in other years.

I dont know the ins and outs of how clubs really rate this draft but if that is the case, then I think Freo should think long and hard about 24. Its not an absolutely unfair offer to my naked eye. Maybe a tad under the odds but I dont think you can really ask the Blues for much else really. They wont be able to get an upgraded pick as clubs simply wont deal a top 20 pick under an circumstances IMO.

And I'm not sure what a mediator will achieve. There isnt much to bargain with. Its like a big divorce settlement when there is a house, car, boat, CD collections to fight over and distributed. Its pick 24 and thats it.

One deal I thought could be OK is

Pick 24 + Blues 3rd round for Warnock and Freos 4th rounder.

 

[Alfonz]

Pick 24 reasonable? People who think this are delusional.

Ayce Cordy, a 200cm string bean who has yet to play a game and is yet to show anything compared with Warnock, is guaranteed to go at pick 14 and could have gone at 13. That is the benchmark in this draft as far as I'm concerned. Who would you rather have? I'd take Warnock in a heartbeat. How anybody could possibly say Cordy is worth more than Warnock is beyond me.

 

[Da Bull]

Pick 24 reasonable? People who think this are delusional.

Ayce Cordy, a 200cm string bean who has yet to play a game and is yet to show anything compared with Warnock, is guaranteed to go at pick 14 and could have gone at 13. That is the benchmark in this draft as far as I'm concerned. Who would you rather have? I'd take Warnock in a heartbeat. How anybody could possibly say Cordy is worth more than Warnock is beyond me.

It's market value mate. He's only worth what people are willing to pay.

 

[celtic_pride]

BTW If Warnock goes into the draft, doesn't he go into the National, rather then the Pre-season draft, so therefore the Dees won't get him..

Warnock doesn't want to play for Melbourne or any other club except Carlton ...
I'd give them pick 24 and a fringe player like Blackwell etc ...
And people say Carlton should give a earlier pick (6 is off limits) how many of our 'tradeable' players would be we get a pick 10 or 15 for ?
None, so therefore Freo's line is unrealistic and selfish.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

personally I think Carlton are after the wrong ruckman, but to be fair carlton should only have to match anyother offer from other clubs.

but in saying that its hard to do when you only have picks 6 and 24.

If melb offer pick 17 or 19 that does not equate to carltons pick 6, have any other clubs offered a top 10 pick for warnock - no so the next best they can offer is 24 deal with it freo the guys a loser anyway.

Exactly, it is not entirely in our control. Pick 6 we should not have to give up. No other club would pay that.

To trade another player to get a lower pick, it has to be an uncontracted player or someone who wants to go. If Warnock's value is perceived to be around about Pick 17-19 as has been suggested, what would bring a 24 pick down to 17-19 in terms of sweeteners.

In a deep draft Pick 40 is still pretty good and may be worth more than 5-7 places in the draft especially to a team needing KPPs. Freo will take 8 players in the draft so an extra 4th rounder would still be useful to them. 56 is realistic.

Bower is way out of the equation. A pick 20 who has come along very nicely. Not a chance.

Even Browne and Armfield, 3rd and 4th round picks have got plenty of game time in their first seasons and are looking to play important roles for the club. Worth more than 5-7 draft spots to us.

 

[greennick]

Where's our top 30 pick for Ackland?

So, what are you saying? Carlton systematically overpays it's ruckmen?

I can't see how you can say he is worth 350k in one instant and then say he is not worth pick 24, which is an unproven kid that has a good chance of being delisted after a few years.

 

[sharpie]

Pick 24 reasonable? People who think this are delusional.

Ayce Cordy, a 200cm string bean who has yet to play a game and is yet to show anything compared with Warnock, is guaranteed to go at pick 14 and could have gone at 13. That is the benchmark in this draft as far as I'm concerned. Who would you rather have? I'd take Warnock in a heartbeat. How anybody could possibly say Cordy is worth more than Warnock is beyond me.

Warnock hasn't exactly set the world on fire though has he?

He couldn't even get first ruck over that hack Seaby for West Perth

 

[nurries]

Fremantle are trying to act tough to make up for previous **** ups.

Pick 24 is more than acceptable.

Well then 150K a year is more than acceptable to pay him and bring him in line with other clubs. Outprice the market and intervention is the price you pay.

 

[sharpie]

Even Browne and Armfield, 3rd and 4th round picks have got plenty of game time in their first seasons and are looking to play important roles for the club. Worth more than 5-7 draft spots to us.

Browne would be a steal for Freo

Pick 24 and Browne I'd do in a heartbeat

Hell I'd give Seaby and 36 for Browne

 

[chook2734]

Not sure if this has been mentioned on here but Steven Icke was on Perth radio last night and said that he had made a point of asking what other clubs thought was fair for Warnock and they all said pick 24. That made the Blues stick their heals in even more. They believe pick 24 is good value in this draft and equates to something like pick 15 in other years.

I dont know the ins and outs of how clubs really rate this draft but if that is the case, then I think Freo should think long and hard about 24. Its not an absolutely unfair offer to my naked eye. Maybe a tad under the odds but I dont think you can really ask the Blues for much else really. They wont be able to get an upgraded pick as clubs simply wont deal a top 20 pick under an circumstances IMO.

And I'm not sure what a mediator will achieve. There isnt much to bargain with. Its like a big divorce settlement when there is a house, car, boat, CD collections to fight over and distributed. Its pick 24 and thats it.

One deal I thought could be OK is

Pick 24 + Blues 3rd round for Warnock and Freos 4th rounder.

So, if Richmond go around and ask all the other clubs what Seaby is worth and they com back with their 4th rounder you'll just bend over and accept it?

Right.

 

[greennick]

Thankfully the minds on the Supreme Court Bench have a better grasp of the details of commercial law than yourself

If there is a challenge, the price on the system falling over will be about $1.20

Why is it always Carlton supporters that talk about the system falling over. You do realise there are specific provisions in the act that allow for circumstances such as these?

 

[Bradesmaen]

This is funny actually... Carlton Offer Warnock a huge deal which puts Melbourne out of the race.... then they tell Freo he isn't worth anything..

Maybe salaries could be linked to what they are worth on the trade table.... and excellant way for to stop clubs from out biding rival clubs, because they would have to cough up higher picks.

Thats how they work out what a player is worth for "Offer Sheets (Restricted Free Agents) in the NHL.. if you offer someone like 7.5mill a year you owe that team your first round draft pick for like 3 years or something. (If the player accepts)

 

[TOA.]

Pick 24 reasonable? People who think this are delusional.

Ayce Cordy, a 200cm string bean who has yet to play a game and is yet to show anything compared with Warnock, is guaranteed to go at pick 14 and could have gone at 13. That is the benchmark in this draft as far as I'm concerned. Who would you rather have? I'd take Warnock in a heartbeat. How anybody could possibly say Cordy is worth more than Warnock is beyond me.

Actually Cordy is very highly regarded in recruiting circles and some consider worthy of top 5. So dont discount him. I'd say clubs a reasonable amount of clubs would prefer Ayce.

 

[chook2734]

Exactly, it is not entirely in our control. Pick 6 we should not have to give up. No other club would pay that.

To trade another player to get a lower pick, it has to be an uncontracted player or someone who wants to go. If Warnock's value is perceived to be around about Pick 17-19 as has been suggested, what would bring a 24 pick down to 17-19 in terms of sweeteners.

In a deep draft Pick 40 is still pretty good and may be worth more than 5-7 places in the draft especially to a team needing KPPs. Freo will take 8 players in the draft so an extra 4th rounder would still be useful to them. 56 is realistic.

Bower is way out of the equation. A pick 20 who has come along very nicely. Not a chance.

Even Browne and Armfield, 3rd and 4th round picks have got plenty of game time in their first seasons and are looking to play important roles for the club. Worth more than 5-7 draft spots to us.

This is not Fremantle's problem. Do you think if you go to the shop and want to buy something that costs $100 but you only have $50 that they'll give it to you anyway? Of course not. You have to go out and find a way to get the rest of it. How you do it is up to you. The seller doesn't care how you get it, but they don't have to just accept a lesser amount because it's all you've got.

The number of players that Fremantle needs is not Carlton's problem. It should not come into consideration. Just because we have multiple spots to fill it doesn't make a crap pick any more attractive.

 

[nurries]

Exactly, it is not entirely in our control. Pick 6 we should not have to give up. No other club would pay that.

To trade another player to get a lower pick, it has to be an uncontracted player or someone who wants to go. If Warnock's value is perceived to be around about Pick 17-19 as has been suggested, what would bring a 24 pick down to 17-19 in terms of sweeteners.
In a deep draft Pick 40 is still pretty good and may be worth more than 5-7 places in the draft especially to a team needing KPPs. Freo will take 8 players in the draft so an extra 4th rounder would still be useful to them. 56 is realistic.

Bower is way out of the equation. A pick 20 who has come along very nicely. Not a chance.

Even Browne and Armfield, 3rd and 4th round picks have got plenty of game time in their first seasons and are looking to play important roles for the club. Worth more than 5-7 draft spots to us.

No. You deal with other clubs with your pick 24 plus sweetners to get us pick 17-19. We only want the draft picks.