AFL to mediate on Warnock deal.

[The Old Dark Navy's]

obviously, the heirachy at your club doesnt agree with your sentiments.

Having an each way bet. They certainly were not looking to pick up a developing ruckman this year. If anything they might have considered an older ruckman to fill the breach for a year or so. Warnock became available, has genuine height and Carlton have not had a dominant ruckman since Justin Madden.

We also are not sure whether we want Kreuzer to ruck or play forward but another ruckman gives us that option. Warnock is more developed than Hampson for sure but still not ready to dominate as a number one ruckman in 2009. The club knows this, they are just hoping we can be more competitive to give the midfield a better chance.

 

[Alfonz]

This is silly thinking. By this logic, Warnock is worth more than Natanui as well as he is yet to pay a game and show anything at AFL level.

Cameron Wood was probably the better comparison as a ruck with a couple of years development behind him. The difference? If a player is taken at a higher draft pick in the national draft because of superior junior form, then that reputation and expectation stays with them longer than a player taken at 42 in the national draft.

Warnock was considered more of a risk coming into the AFL than many other ruckman. He looks to have potential but others have potential plus the fact they had superior form prior to the AFL so their breeding looks better.

Ayce Cordy gets his higher rating because he looks better in his position than most other players his age. Warnock didn't.

Breeding? What Warnock did as a junior and where he was picked is now irrelevant.

I'm not going to argue with much of what you say, but you still don't know what Cordy will do, no matter how good he looks as a junior. You don't know entirely with Warnock either, but you have more of an idea as he has shown something at senior level.

I'm just saying he is worth more than pick 24 ... somewhere round the 17/19 mark from Melbourne we would probably be happy with.

For us, don't forget that 17 would let us get in front of WC's 2nd/3rd picks (and 19 would get in front of just their 3rd one, obviously) ... so stepping up just 5-7 picks from 24 would be very important considering we would both prefer the best of the WA kids.

 

[worthy]

How bout this Blues, send Thornton and your 3rd to Hawthorn for pick 16 and then ontrade that to us and we can all move on and be happy.

WTF, don't try and stiff us to get what you want.

 

[bodazoka]

Not sure if this has been mentioned on here but Steven Icke was on Perth radio last night and said that he had made a point of asking what other clubs thought was fair for Warnock and they all said pick 24. That made the Blues stick their heals in even more. They believe pick 24 is good value in this draft and equates to something like pick 15 in other years.

I dont know the ins and outs of how clubs really rate this draft but if that is the case, then I think Freo should think long and hard about 24. Its not an absolutely unfair offer to my naked eye. Maybe a tad under the odds but I dont think you can really ask the Blues for much else really. They wont be able to get an upgraded pick as clubs simply wont deal a top 20 pick under an circumstances IMO.

And I'm not sure what a mediator will achieve. There isnt much to bargain with. Its like a big divorce settlement when there is a house, car, boat, CD collections to fight over and distributed. Its pick 24 and thats it.

One deal I thought could be OK is

Pick 24 + Blues 3rd round for Warnock and Freos 4th rounder.

I think thats the point, nothing other than 24 is being offered. I would believe that Freo would accept this but Carlton are not offering more than 24.

 

[Mario Speedwagon]

I don't think Carlton need him....Kruezer will be a star in a few years and they can get by with a merely "serviceable" ruck division as Judd usually wins the clearances once the ball hits the deck anyway...

 

[Wizard]

WTF, don't try and stiff us to get what you want.

Thornton and a 3rd rounder isnt far off the mark for pick 16.

 

[nurries]

Having an each way bet. They certainly were not looking to pick up a developing ruckman this year. If anything they might have considered an older ruckman to fill the breach for a year or so. Warnock became available, has genuine height and Carlton have not had a dominant ruckman since Justin Madden.

We also are not sure whether we want Kreuzer to ruck or play forward but another ruckman gives us that option. Warnock is more developed than Hampson for sure but still not ready to dominate as a number one ruckman in 2009. The club knows this, they are just hoping we can be more competitive to give the midfield a better chance.

1.4Mil over 4 years is a pretty big each way bet

 

[Monkey King]

Do you have ANY idea on what the trade negotiations are? Are you sitting on the table listening to Freo and Carlton talk? No? Then shutup.

It's a footy forum buddy... pull ya head outta ya arse.

 

[Roosurgence]

It's market value mate. He's only worth what people are willing to pay.

Just because it's market value, doesn't mean you have to sell either.

I'm sure Melbourne woul be happy to part with pick 19 for him.

They are just sitting back and waiting to see how this pans out.

 

[worthy]

Thornton and a 3rd rounder isnt far off the mark for pick 16.

Thornton with all the packaging in the world won't get #16, similarly, 2 crap players don't equal 1 good one.

Jamison or Hartlett would be of more interest IMO

 

[McFooty]

Breeding? What Warnock did as a junior and where he was picked is now irrelevant.

I'm not going to argue with much of what you say, but you still don't know what Cordy will do, no matter how good he looks as a junior. You don't know entirely with Warnock either, but you have more of an idea as he has shown something at senior level.

I'm just saying he is worth more than pick 24 ... somewhere round the 17/19 mark from Melbourne we would probably be happy with.

For us, don't forget that 17 would let us get in front of WC's 2nd/3rd picks (and 19 would get in front of just their 3rd one, obviously) ... so stepping up just 5-7 picks from 24 would be very important considering we would both prefer the best of the WA kids.

So its not Carlton, its West Coast, anything to beat them, what do we call this a draft derby?

 

[BLue_Bloys]

Just because it's market value, doesn't mean you have to sell either.

I'm sure Melbourne woul be happy to part with pick 19 for him.

They are just sitting back and waiting to see how this pans out.

This is panning out really well for Melbourne. If things keep going the way they are:

Carl: Yeah we're out

Freo: So Melbourne, how about that pick 19

Melb: How about no, PSD

 

[Wizard]

Thornton with all the packaging in the world won't get #16, similarly, 2 crap players don't equal 1 good one.

Jamison or Hartlett would be of more interest IMO

Obviously we dont rate Thornton equally.

I have heard whispers Hartlett is going to get pushed out @ Carlton primarily cos hes a ********.

 

[sharpie]

So its not Carlton, its West Coast, anything to beat them, what do we call this a draft derby?

His comments are very fair there.

Access to WA boys at that part of the draft are vital.

iI can see exactly why those picks are imperative - in terms of drafting we are very much in direct competition with Freo at that point in the draft.

There are no standouts generally come the second round - so teams are far more likely to go local

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

How bout this Blues, send Thornton and your 3rd to Hawthorn for pick 16 and then ontrade that to us and we can all move on and be happy.

Thornton and 40 for Warnock? Some T-Bird haters will agree at any price but Thornton is way too valuable to us for that to occur especially having to give over a draft pick as well.

If we offloaded Setanta for a 3rd rounder, I might be happy with a 2nd and 3rd rounder but I still consider it a risk on our part.

Hawks would not take Thornton and 40 for pick 16 anyway.

More realistic would be Thornton for Hawks 34 and 50 (were prepared to give 24 and 32 two years ago).

Then you can have 24 and 40 for Warnock.


Hawks gain: Thornton
lose: 34 and 50

Freo gain: 24 and 40
lose: Warnock

Carlton gain: Warnock, 34, 50
lose: Thornton, 24, 40

So we lose Thornton, gain Warnock and our second and third round picks lose 10 places.

I know this deal could take place without the Hawks as we would be giving up 24 and 40 for Warnock straight swap, but we do not want to give up 40 without having an adequate replacement in the draft for it as we believe 24 is enough.

We would then still have picks at 6, 34, 50, 56.

It still looks like overs to me when I look at those picks and the fact we have lost an important defender and gained an inexperienced ruckman. The plus side would be that it stops this annual speculation about Thornton and maybe improves morale as we haven't got a player murmuring about wanting to leave all the time. He only has a year left on his contract to so who knows what he will do this time next year.

 

[beatlesmith]

mediation aint binding, so freo could still say jog on if all carlton offer is pick 24.

 

[dplggr47]

This is panning out really well for Melbourne. If things keep going the way they are:

Carl: Yeah we're out

Freo: So Melbourne, how about that pick 19

Melb: How about no, PSD

i thought Freo said they'll try to redraft him through the National Draft... so the question for Warnock in that situation would be, would he rather stay at Freo or go play for Melbourne...

anyway, i believe Warnock is worth more than pick 24...pick 19 would've been where i'd rate him for trade. frustrating thing is that players walk out on their clubs, pick a destination and force that club to do business with less than what they could get.

 

[sharpie]

i thought Freo said they'll try to redraft him through the National Draft... so the question for Warnock in that situation would be, would he rather stay at Freo or go play for Melbourne...

anyway, i believe Warnock is worth more than pick 24...pick 19 would've been where i'd rate him for trade. frustrating thing is that players walk out on their clubs, pick a destination and force that club to do business with less than what they could get.

If he puts a 1yr $600k deal on his head - Freo aren't going to recruit him

It is a very poor bluff - everyone knows it - Steven Icke said so last night on the radio.

There's never been a case of a team re-recruiting a player that doesn't want to be there. Especially one with an expensive one year deal that would walk the following year

 

[BLue_Bloys]

i thought Freo said they'll try to redraft him through the National Draft... so the question for Warnock in that situation would be, would he rather stay at Freo or go play for Melbourne...

anyway, i believe Warnock is worth more than pick 24...pick 19 would've been where i'd rate him for trade. frustrating thing is that players walk out on their clubs, pick a destination and force that club to do business with less than what they could get.

Assuming he really wants to go to Melbourne, re-drafting him with pick 21 would be suicide. Not only do they lose pick 21 instead of gaining 24 / 19 whatever the pick, they would be paying him a heap of money (I assume the rules have changed and he can nominate his price in ND?) in a place he doesn't want to be. A deal will be done IMO

Freo have every right to get the best pick possible, but their tough guy act isn't working very well. Imagine the supporters fury if they let him slip to ND, PSD for nothing

 

[nurries]

So its not Carlton, its West Coast, anything to beat them, what do we call this a draft derby?

What do you expect??? We wouldnt even have this thread if Warnock was from WA

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

1.4Mil over 4 years is a pretty big each way bet

You've got to stop getting hung up over this money thing. When you entice a player over to your club, the incentive has to outweigh everything else to get him over. He wanted to leave anyway so that part was easy. We just had to give him a reasonable offer to choose us over 9 other Victorian based clubs who may have wanted to have a sniff. Who knows if other clubs did not offering similar deals? 10 teams in town, it becomes a bit of a bidding war. If he doesn't choose Carlton, the bidding war is not only for his salary but for the trade deal. We did high enough for him to choose us, scare off most of the other clubs and lessen the trade bidding war.

Nick Stevens first contract at Carlton was worth more than his subsequent contract(s).

 

[nurries]

You've got to stop getting hung up over this money thing. When you entice a player over to your club, the incentive has to outweigh everything else to get him over. He wanted to leave anyway so that part was easy. We just had to give him a reasonable offer to choose us over 9 other Victorian based clubs who may have wanted to have a sniff. Who knows if other clubs did not offering similar deals? 10 teams in town, it becomes a bit of a bidding war. If he doesn't choose Carlton, the bidding war is not only for his salary but for the trade deal. We did high enough for him to choose us, scare off most of the other clubs and lessen the trade bidding war.

Nick Stevens first contract at Carlton was worth more than his subsequent contract(s).

So is he going cos it's Carlton or for the money??

You have given HIM a more than reasonable offer. Now its time to give US one.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

So is he going cos it's Carlton or for the money??

You have given HIM a more than reasonable offer. Now its time to give US one.

We gave you a reasonable offer. Why do you think we have to give a MORE than reasonable offer just because Warnock got one? If we pay Warnock more than he is worth, he can repay us with loyalty and performance. If we give Freo more than he is worth, it helps us how?

Look around you. There are supporters of all clubs saying that 24 is a good offer. Apparently representatives from other clubs have said that 24 is a good offer. Freo just want to squeeze out the best possible deal but that doesn't mean they should get absolute top dollar for Warnock.

 

[pistol17]

How about we all wait until tomorrow and see what happens with the mediator instead of having 10+ pages of posts pretty much saying the same thing. Pretty sure the guys from Fremantle and Carlton know more about what is happening than the punters on here so take a chill pill and just wait to see what happens tomorrow!!

 

[Roosurgence]

This is panning out really well for Melbourne. If things keep going the way they are:

Carl: Yeah we're out

Freo: So Melbourne, how about that pick 19

Melb: How about no, PSD

Yep same with Judd last year.

Carlton pretty much said take what we can offer or Richmond can have him for nothing.

Unfortunately for the Blues they are the ones on the other side this year.