News AFL to overhaul the draft, discuss changes to Academy and FS bid matching

[giantroo]

 

[bzparkes]

It's so wild how people are suggesting the act of AFL players sitting in an airline seat for 90 mins somehow makes them this ineffective, punch-drunk footballer that is unable to run or mark a footy.

Are you really this stupid?

 

[Profop]

Any team given the choice of father son or a region based academy is going to take the academy (unless the region is ridiculous)

 

[jdstorm]

It's so wild how people are suggesting the act of AFL players sitting in an airline seat for 90 mins somehow makes them this ineffective, punch-drunk footballer that is unable to run or mark a footy.

Meanwhile those same people (Football coaches who complain about travel) will happily pick underdone and injured players in important games if they are stars or an important part of the team

 

[Lana]

This actually does my head in. Why did they bother bringing in the rule where you couldn't take in more picks than you had list vacancies, if they were going to allow you to exceed the number of list vacancies as soon as the draft opened. It just shifted a lot of the trading down from before the draft into the draft.

The other rule I'd have in this regard is that you can re-draft anyone that you delisted in the same trade period. Takes away the creation of fake list spots and it's done for a variety of other reasons as well - all solely to rort the intentions of the rules.

I have mixed feelings about re-drafting rookies, I think a way to dis-incentive it would be to remove the salary cap relief from players you delist and then redraft.

 

[sr36]

I have mixed feelings about re-drafting rookies, I think a way to dis-incentive it would be to remove the salary cap relief from players you delist and then redraft.

There's no real reason to have a separate category A list anymore.

Delisting and re-drafting is only done to get around the intention of particular rules.

a) salary cap saving by getting someone off the senior list onto the rookie list.
b) the rule around having to have 3 list vacancies for the draft
c) to create a fake list vacancy to take extra matching picks into the draft

Either get rid of the rules if you don't care that they're so easily rorted or get rid of the ability to delist and then re-adding

The issue with just getting rid of category a or the discount is that doesn't stop delisting and re-adding for situation c. If you did stop delisting and re drafting the downside is it'd result in some blokes not getting an extra year, but that's a by-product of the rule anyway.

 

[adammania9]

The way I look at it is, clearly the comp isn't even so whilst fans of Brisbane can be chummy, it minimised their future success un the eyes of many. As it did with Collingwood and as it does with the bulldogs. Sure, the average footy fan who doesn't follow things closely will have no idea but footy tragic like me, don't really respect the success that these clubs have had or in brisbanes' case will continue to have.

If Melbourne had Daicos x 2, Darcy Moore and Quaynor we win the last 2 flags.
If Melbourne had Sam Darcy, Ugle-Hagan we win the last 2 flags.
If Melbourne have Ashcroft x 2 and Fletcher, we're premiership favourites the next 3 years.

So ultimately, teams are only as good as their gifts. A team like Hawthorn have rebuilt through the draft so I respect how they've done it. Calsher Dear was a F/S but was taken late in the draft.

briztoon I'm not sure if this has been addressed yet but the main issue with Brisbane/other interstate teams is that you get the noise of affirmation with the umpires every 2nd week. So every 2nd week, every time Ashcroft flops and ducks his head to draw high free kicks because he can't extract it any other way due to being slow, the umpires fall for it and blow their whistle. every 2nd week your team gets a huge leg up from the umps. Victorian teams get it once every 6 weeks or so. That's the main issue, the umpires. The standard is still horrific and they get sucked in by external noise every time.

You've been informed countless times. Nick Daicos always ends up at Collingwood regardless. Josh got to Collingwood the same way Calsher Dear got to Hawthorn which you excused. Collingwood paid the highest price anyone has paid for a F/S in Moore. Quaynor was a nice gift though.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

You've been informed countless times. Nick Daicos always ends up at Collingwood regardless. Josh got to Collingwood the same way Calsher Dear got to Hawthorn which you excused. Collingwood paid the highest price anyone has paid for a F/S in Moore. Quaynor was a nice gift though.

I love how Collingwood fans always characterise a meaningful, 3-5 pick jump in the top 10 of draft in order to get Moore (rated around pick 5, taken with pick 9), which was a clear positive gain, as somehow not that much of a gain at all and if anything was a cost

 

[adammania9]

I love how Collingwood fans always characterise a meaningful, 3-5 pick jump in the top 10 of draft in order to get Moore (rated around pick 5, taken with pick 9), which was a clear positive gain, as somehow not that much of a gain at all and if anything was a cost

What’s that got to do with what I said? Collingwood paid the closest to fair price for such a highly rated F/S as ever when they selected Moore.

There’s a strong chance Moore would have slipped to the Pies at 9 anyway. The Suns loved Peter Wright and would have taken him ahead of Moore. The Giants wanted a midfielder and a defender (Moore was a forward).

 

[danster168]

You've been informed countless times. Nick Daicos always ends up at Collingwood regardless. Josh got to Collingwood the same way Calsher Dear got to Hawthorn which you excused. Collingwood paid the highest price anyone has paid for a F/S in Moore. Quaynor was a nice gift though.

Daicos was the best player in the draft but slid to Collingwood didn't he? Collingwood still got access to Moore which they wouldn't have had otherwise. And yes Quaynor. There's no real measurement to know how far clubs let players fall when they know they are a father/son player aka Dear and J.Daicos.

 

[adammania9]

Daicos was the best player in the draft but slid to Collingwood didn't he? Collingwood still got access to Moore which they wouldn't have had otherwise. And yes Quaynor. There's no real measurement to know how far clubs let players fall when they know they are a father/son player aka Dear and J.Daicos.

Collingwood finished 17th in 2021 and had traded that pick 2 in 2020 knowing they were attached to the special Daicos. Nick would have been picked at #2 for Collingwood in 2021 without F/S attachments. As stated in an above post, a good argument can be made for Collingwood landing Moore at 9. He wasn’t a super prospect. Most clubs rated Wright higher including the Suns, and the Giants did not need to take a forward when they had Boyd, Patton, Cameron, McCarthy and Lobb on their list.

There actually is a good measurement regarding your last point - the pick they were taken at, not speculation. Neither players were bid on.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

What’s that got to do with what I said? Collingwood paid the closest to fair price for such a highly rated F/S as ever when they selected Moore.

There’s a strong chance Moore would have slipped to the Pies at 9 anyway. The Suns loved Peter Wright and would have taken him ahead of Moore. The Giants wanted a midfielder and a defender (Moore was a forward).

A jump from pick 9 to pick 5 is not "close".

In an ordinary draft you'd have to attach pick 15-20 to make that jump, which means that you got the value of a meaningful pick for free.

 

[adammania9]

A jump from pick 9 to pick 5 is not "close".

In an ordinary draft you'd have to attach pick 15-20 to make that jump, which means that you got the value of a meaningful pick for free.

Once again, you’re refuting an argument that was never made

 

[danster168]

Collingwood finished 17th in 2021 and had traded that pick 2 in 2020 knowing they were attached to the special Daicos. Nick would have been picked at #2 for Collingwood in 2021 without F/S attachments. As stated in an above post, a good argument can be made for Collingwood landing Moore at 9. He wasn’t a super prospect. Most clubs rated Wright higher including the Suns, and the Giants did not need to take a forward when they had Boyd, Patton, Cameron, McCarthy and Lobb on their list.

There actually is a good measurement regarding your last point - the pick they were taken at, not speculation. Neither players were bid on.

nah Daicos would've gone #1 in the open draft

Your last point is crazy. Ashcroft got bid on with pick 5. but was widely regarded as the best prospect. At very worst number 2. So there is current evidence that clubs let f/s players slide. 'the pick they were taken at' is nonsense. come on now.

 

[adammania9]

nah Daicos would've gone #1 in the open draft

Your last point is crazy. Ashcroft got bid on with pick 5. but was widely regarded as the best prospect. At very worst number 2. So there is current evidence that clubs let f/s players slide. 'the pick they were taken at' is nonsense. come on now.

The common opinion in 2021 was that Horne-Francis was ahead, and to some - ahead by a fair margin.

The Ashcroft drift can be explained. Richmond didn’t bid as the Lions and Tigers had done a pick swap which likely involved a handshake agreement for Richmond not to bid. Not a great look but it happens. Carlton rated Smith as the #1 player in the draft. Adelaide probably wanted to take no risks and take the highly rated local boy who gives them plenty of attributes in midfield they don’t have. North Melbourne I don’t know but may well have rated O’Sullivan as higher than Ashcroft. They rated Matt Whitlock comfortably in their top 10, which is far off the public opinion. Club board rankings can differ massively from Cal Twomey’s ranking.

 

[KissKiss]

The common opinion in 2021 was that Horne-Francis was ahead, and to some - ahead by a fair margin.

The Ashcroft drift can be explained. Richmond didn’t bid as the Lions and Tigers had done a pick swap which likely involved a handshake agreement for Richmond not to bid. Not a great look but it happens. Carlton rated Smith as the #1 player in the draft. Adelaide probably wanted to take no risks and take the highly rated local boy who gives them plenty of attributes in midfield they don’t have. North Melbourne I don’t know but may well have rated O’Sullivan as higher than Ashcroft. They rated Matt Whitlock comfortably in their top 10, which is far off the public opinion. Club board rankings can differ massively from Cal Twomey’s ranking.

Im pretty sure that it leaked out that North had O'Sullivan at 1. We know at least 3 clubs had players they rated over Levi but we dont really know where they rated him. We also know that GWS rated Darcy at least over Daicos with how they bid for one but not the other.

So either way its pretty clear that neither NDaicos or LAshcroft were a consensus 1. They were in the mix and clearly in the top 3-5

 

[sr36]

The way I look at it is, clearly the comp isn't even so whilst fans of Brisbane can be chummy, it minimised their future success un the eyes of many. As it did with Collingwood and as it does with the bulldogs. Sure, the average footy fan who doesn't follow things closely will have no idea but footy tragic like me, don't really respect the success that these clubs have had or in brisbanes' case will continue to have.

If Melbourne had Daicos x 2, Darcy Moore and Quaynor we win the last 2 flags.
If Melbourne had Sam Darcy, Ugle-Hagan we win the last 2 flags.
If Melbourne have Ashcroft x 2 and Fletcher, we're premiership favourites the next 3 years.

I assume you don't respect Melbourne's flags after being gifted all those picks and Viney. Pies and Brisbane would have won a heap of flags if we had have been gifted Petracca and co. We rated Dusty at 1 too, so wouldn't have stuffed up by passing on him - twice.

 

[danster168]

I assume you don't respect Melbourne's flags after being gifted all those picks and Viney. Pies and Brisbane would have won a heap of flags if we had have been gifted Petracca and co. We rated Dusty at 1 too, so wouldn't have stuffed up by passing on him - twice.

1 father/son pick in the last 20 years is well below league average. near the very bottom. Which picks did Melbourne get gifted? The last time I checked you have to finish near the bottom of the ladder to get picks. 1 year of pain. Barely free like the above clubs got.

Scully was unanimous pick 1. Every club has made draft choices. You picked Nathan Freeman, Scharenberg, Stephenson, etc. Without Daicos x2, Moore, Quaynor you're a bottom 2 list.

 

[sr36]

1 father/son pick in the last 20 years is well below league average. near the very bottom. Which picks did Melbourne get gifted? The last time I checked you have to finish near the bottom of the ladder to get picks. 1 year of pain. Barely free like the above clubs got.

Scully was unanimous pick 1. Every club has made draft choices. You picked Nathan Freeman, Scharenberg, Stephenson, etc. Without Daicos x2, Moore, Quaynor you're a bottom 2 list.

Do you understand how the draft works? The AFL gives a leg up to teams who are shit. You guys were shit for so long that you got an enormous amount of early picks. Enormous amounts of assistance from the AFL. You weren't getting near a flag without all those early picks.

 

[Demon in Hell]

I assume you don't respect Melbourne's flags after being gifted all those picks and Viney. Pies and Brisbane would have won a heap of flags if we had have been gifted Petracca and co. We rated Dusty at 1 too, so wouldn't have stuffed up by passing on him - twice.

Pies supporters should be the last group of people questioning free gifts of father/son and academy picks.

Hypocrites.

 

[sr36]

Pies supporters should be the last group of people questioning free gifts of father/son and academy picks.

Hypocrites.

I wasn't. I was taking the piss out of a Dees fan for questioning the validity of flags due to AFL recruiting rules giving them recruiting advantages. When clearly AFL rules have gifted more recruiting advantages to the Dees than the vast majority of clubs. How many top 5 picks gifted over the years? Or do you think getting those picks isn't an AFL rule designed to assist that gave you major recruiting advantages?

I know full well the Pies wouldn't have won in 2023 without father son rules. Do you recognise that Melbourne wouldn't have won in 2021 without the recruiting advantages the draft gave you? Good luck to you. You had a ripping year - as we did in 2023.

 

[beatnik]

Do you understand how the draft works? The AFL gives a leg up to teams who are shit. You guys were shit for so long that you got an enormous amount of early picks. Enormous amounts of assistance from the AFL. You weren't getting near a flag without all those early picks.

Why is Collingwood the most hated club in the league? #mystery

 

[sr36]

Why is Collingwood the most hated club in the league? #mystery

That's hurtful. Incredibly cutting. Well done using your words though.

 

[danster168]

Do you understand how the draft works? The AFL gives a leg up to teams who are shit. You guys were shit for so long that you got an enormous amount of early picks. Enormous amounts of assistance from the AFL. You weren't getting near a flag without all those early picks.

yes thats exactly how the draft works. You get an early pick IF you finish near the bottom.i.e not for free. Father/sons and Quaynor you got access to for free without doing ANYTHING!

 

[danster168]

I wasn't. I was taking the piss out of a Dees fan for questioning the validity of flags due to AFL recruiting rules giving them recruiting advantages. When clearly AFL rules have gifted more recruiting advantages to the Dees than the vast majority of clubs. How many top 5 picks gifted over the years? Or do you think getting those picks isn't an AFL rule designed to assist that gave you major recruiting advantages?

I know full well the Pies wouldn't have won in 2023 without father son rules. Do you recognise that Melbourne wouldn't have won in 2021 without the recruiting advantages the draft gave you? Good luck to you. You had a ripping year - as we did in 2023.

So go through our 2021 team. Other than Viney, every other pick was drafted. No academy picks, no multiple father/sons, no priority picks. All picks were taken from draft picks that we deserved after finishing low on the ladder. That's how a draft works. No-one is questioning the draft rules.

People are questioning the NGA and Father-son rules and the reality as, and thankfully you acknowledge this, you would've got nowhere near a flag without the NGA and Father-son rules. You'd be bottom 4, as would the dogs, and Brisbane would be a 5-8 team. In my opinion of course.

If you want to compare Father-sons, NGA's and Priority picks with Melbourne, see how far you get.
Collingwood: Nick Daicos, Josh Daicos, Quaynor, Darcy Moore, Josh Fraser, Daisy Thomas, Heath Shaw, Rhyce Shaw, Nick Davis, Travis Cloke.
Melbourne: Viney, Sylvia, Travis Johnstone, Scully.

Cool mate.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

yes thats exactly how the draft works. You get an early pick IF you finish near the bottom.i.e not for free. Father/sons and Quaynor you got access to for free without doing ANYTHING!

You have also gotten priority picks in your history (in addition to the ordinary top draft picks you get from being bad) that you can draw a straight line to the list management benefit of your 2021 year.