News AFL to overhaul the draft, discuss changes to Academy and FS bid matching

[giantroo]

 

[.Shotties.]

imagine Mac Andrew next to May and Lever. Absolutely stolen from us.

Lol, no he wasn't. You guys didn't do shit to develop him.

 

[danster168]

Geez what a load of BS.

Totally grasping at straws with that argument.

So because interstate crowds cheer louder that makes up for the ridiculous travel load they endure? It evens out? Baaah haah haah haaar hoo....jeez. Great argument.

How loud do the Suns and GWS crowds cheer? Big traditional Vic clubs often get more supporters to away games than the Suns and GWS do hosting them.

The last Pies v Cats game at rhe MCG was a Pies home game, hardly any Geelong supporters showed up and the crowd was 90% behind the hime team.

Maybe Dees supporters should walk out of the members bar and corporate boxes and make some actual noise between sipping champers and talking down their noses to each other.

absolute bollocks. not once in your argument did you acknowledge the clear home ground advantage that you get in 50% of your games. whereas when the dees play Essendon, rich, dogs, stkilda, Collingwood, Geelong, Carlton, hawks and north there is little to no advantage. Hell sometimes our home games against the bigger melbourne club are even a disadvantage. If you can't fathom this then I can't help you.

Also, are you suggesting that you don't believe in the noise of affirmation? All good if you don't. I 100% do believe in it.

 

[danster168]

Lol, no he wasn't. You guys didn't do shit to develop him.

yeah, we did. he was in our academy.

 

[.Shotties.]

he was in our academy.

What were you guys doing that wasn't already being done in the development system he was already in for the game he'd played since he was a kid?

 

[Yoda_]

If the AFL want to “grow the game”, wouldn’t bums on seats be the biggest factor?

Attendance = participation = growth = depth in numbers





On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[danster168]

What were you guys doing that wasn't already being done in the development system he was already in for the game he'd played since he was a kid?

you're overthinking it. he was in our academy. he should have been a dee. that's the end of the story. No different to Ugle-hagan and Quaynor

 

[.Shotties.]

you're overthinking it.

Answer the question.

 

[danster168]

Answer the question.

I wouldn't have a clue. You also wouldn't have a clue that they didn't. But I heard Jason Taylor (Melb recruiting manager) on the radio at the time and they were totally peeved because they believed that they had put plenty of development into Mac from a young age. This was after the decision was made to change the rules. So I take him by his word.

 

[.Shotties.]

I wouldn't have a clue. You also wouldn't have a clue that they didn't.

He had played footy since he was 9, had been in rep teams for years and was in elite talent pathways. I don't think checking in with Melbourne in whatever time was left between school and Talent League was what made him AFL quality.

But I heard Jason Taylor (Melb recruiting manager) on the radio at the time and they were totally peeved because they believed that they had put plenty of development into Mac from a young age.

From a young age? He joined their academy less than 3 years before his draft. If he was in a northern academy, he wouldn't have been eligible. It's a textbook case of what the issue is with the NGAs. Talented kids at the end of the drafting process get tagged as academy for drafting rights.

That they had put plenty of development into Mac from a young age. This was after the decision was made to change the rules. So I take him by his word.

I guess it's how you define 'plenty of development' and 'young age'. If he means 'We worked with a 15 year old already identified and in an elite talent pathway' then yeah, he's correct I gues.

 

[danster168]

He had played footy since he was 9, had been in rep teams for years and was in elite talent pathways. I don't think checking in with Melbourne in whatever time was left between school and Talent League was what made him AFL quality.

From a young age? He joined their academy less than 3 years before his draft. If he was in a northern academy, he wouldn't have been eligible. It's a textbook case of what the issue is with the NGAs. Talented kids at the end of the drafting process get tagged as academy for drafting rights.

I guess it's how you define 'plenty of development' and 'young age'. If he means 'We worked with a 15 year old already identified and in an elite talent pathway' then yeah, he's correct I gues.

does that differ to Ugle-hagan though? Honestly, I'm not sure. I'd actually feel better if the dogs puts more work into him so I dont feel like we got jibbed. Same with Quaynor.

 

[Dogflogger]

a few more decades of certain clubs having stacked heavily discounted lists, great.

 

[.Shotties.]

does that differ to Ugle-hagan though?

It doesn't. NGAs are box-ticking scams. Melbourne missed it's bite of the pie, but not because of any genuine effort on Melbourne's part.

 

[sydney_gws]

It doesn't. NGAs are box-ticking scams. Melbourne missed it's bite of the pie, but not because of any genuine effort on Melbourne's part.

What changes do swans expect now?
What would be a fair price to pay for the next Heeney or Mills ( both bid on a pick 2 I think)

 

[danster168]

It doesn't. NGAs are box-ticking scams. Melbourne missed it's bite of the pie, but not because of any genuine effort on Melbourne's part.

yeah. but what I'm saying is that Melbourne got shafted more than any other club because despite it being a shoddy system, we had rights for Andrew. He should be a dee. I was okay with losing him for the fairness of the comp but now that they've changed the rules back again, it just highlights the absolute shafting.

 

[SnusCG]

It doesn't. NGAs are box-ticking scams. Melbourne missed it's bite of the pie, but not because of any genuine effort on Melbourne's part.

I said this the other day on the Gold Coast board.

My problem with next gen academies, as opposed to northern academies right now is that teams do **** all development with the players that are in them. I have a bunch of friends who were part of their zoned NGA in Melbourne and they had almost no contact with the clubs outside the initial signing phase, which for most of them was after they had already made their Coates Talent League side or were playing APS firsts.

They basically find which players in their zone are semi decent, born overseas or who had parents born overseas, get them to sign the paperwork that links them to the club and then wait to see if they kick on without doing anything to actually help them get there or contributing to their rise through junior talent pathways. it was all optional development sessions, no development league or game opportunities, they're just a feeder program for Victorian clubs to stop them complaining about northern academies.

If the NGA's are going to continue, they should be used for the 'actual purpose' they were created for, which is to bring in kids from non-traditional AFL background or communities into the sport.

it's like when North Melbourne signed Ryley Sanders to their NGA and tried to get priority access to him last year about a month out from the draft. The fact that it was even considered was ridiculous.

 

[.Shotties.]

They basically find which players in their zone are semi decent, born overseas or who had parents born overseas, get them to sign the paperwork that links them to the club and then wait to see if they kick on without doing anything to actually help them get there or contributing to their rise through junior talent pathways.

It was the same with the NSW Rookie program. These clubs could have come into NSW, set up meaningful training and development opportunities in an area and gained access to players for a rookie pick. What'd they do? For the most part, signed a player, maybe had a bit of contact through a liason and waited to see how they went.

The Northern academies had five year periods and had to provide documentation of their involvement with the development of the player. GWS lost access to Marshall and Brander, and GC to Weller when their involvement with those players went beyond what could be shown with some of these NGA draftees.

 

[SnusCG]

It was the same with the NSW Rookie program. These clubs could have come into NSW, set up meaningful training and development opportunities in an area and gained access to players for a rookie pick. What'd they do? For the most part, signed a player, maybe had a bit of contact through a liason and waited to see how they went.

The Northern academies had five year periods and had to provide documentation of their involvement with the development of the player. GWS lost access to Marshall and Brander, and GC to Weller when their involvement with those players went beyond what could be shown with some of these NGA draftees.

I'm not even mad about losing some players through those means as I genuinely believe the academy has been so good for the Gold Coast and Queensland / NSW in general for not only introducing a lot of kids to AFL that would otherwise not have played, but keeping them in it.

It's what the academies were built for and I'd genuinely be fine not getting access to any of them if it meant they were still run with the same intensity to grow the game.

It would be nice if the same expectations within the development side were placed on all NGA's as well.

 

[BloodySwan]

It was the same with the NSW Rookie program. These clubs could have come into NSW, set up meaningful training and development opportunities in an area and gained access to players for a rookie pick. What'd they do? For the most part, signed a player, maybe had a bit of contact through a liason and waited to see how they went.

The Northern academies had five year periods and had to provide documentation of their involvement with the development of the player. GWS lost access to Marshall and Brander, and GC to Weller when their involvement with those players went beyond what could be shown with some of these NGA draftees.

NGA needs a name change to Multicultural Draft Zones or something similar. Nothing to do with development

 

[All Knowing Orb]

 

[giantroo]

Unapologetic about opening up NGA access for all clubs but seems keen to fix points system at the same time THIS YEAR.

"We have a proposal to reopen (NGA) access, we are also proposing to make the access fairer so it won’t be the same system as last time."

 

[Dogflogger]

Unapologetic about opening up NGA access for all clubs but seems keen to fix points system at the same time THIS YEAR.

"We have a proposal to reopen (NGA) access, we are also proposing to make the access fairer so it won’t be the same system as last time."

Those mental defectives couldn't tie shoelaces, there is not a fking chance they will fix any point system.

 

[sydney_gws]

Those mental defectives couldn't tie shoelaces, there is not a fking chance they will fix any point system.

They will have had submissions from all 18 clubs as to what a points curve should look like, so they should be able to fix it.
Brisbane and Richmond will be pushing hard yo defer it till 2025, I think all other clubs except for Carlton will be happy for it to change this year

 

[Obeanie1]

absolute bollocks. not once in your argument did you acknowledge the clear home ground advantage that you get in 50% of your games. whereas when the dees play Essendon, rich, dogs, stkilda, Collingwood, Geelong, Carlton, hawks and north there is little to no advantage. Hell sometimes our home games against the bigger melbourne club are even a disadvantage. If you can't fathom this then I can't help you.

Also, are you suggesting that you don't believe in the noise of affirmation? All good if you don't. I 100% do believe in it.

I did acknowledge it. When I stated that it doesnt even come close to offsetting the travel factor being such a massive dissadvantage.

Do the Demons get home crowd advantage when playing teams outside of Melbourne? Yes it does. On top of the lack of travel.

This noise of affirmatuon applies to teams home games elsewhere. Some more than others but it isnt a sole WA team advantage. Its just the poor Vic teams whinged about it the loudest and the Vic media jumped on board enmass to get clicks from one eyed Vic fans like yourself. The whinge of affirmation was very loud out of Victoria.

And as I said. Maybe the Dees toffee nosed supporters need to move out of the members bars sipping chardoney and actually support your team ion match day. How that is another clubs problem?

 

[Obeanie1]

If the AFL want to “grow the game”, wouldn’t bums on seats be the biggest factor?

Attendance = participation = growth = depth in numbers





On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

To get bums on seats you need a good competition where any team can win over a given period.

Not build a two teir system where clubs in expansion states get gifted priority access year in year out after playing finals and grand finals.

Who wants to watch a fixed horse race? End of the day people will stop watching and the " lucky clubs" getting all the advantages and winning as they just keep getting stronger.The AFL talks about equalisation.....but is supporting a two teir competition come the draft and teade periods.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I did acknowledge it. When I stated that it doesnt even come close to offsetting the travel factor being such a massive dissadvantage.

Do the Demons get home crowd advantage when playing teams outside of Melbourne? Yes it does. On top of the lack of travel.

This noise of affirmatuon applies to teams home games elsewhere. Some more than others but it isnt a sole WA team advantage. Its just the poor Vic teams whinged about it the loudest and the Vic media jumped on board enmass to get clicks from one eyed Vic fans like yourself. The whinge of affirmation was very loud out of Victoria.

And as I said. Maybe the Dees toffee nosed supporters need to move out of the members bars sipping chardoney and actually support your team ion match day. How that is another clubs problem?

But the point being is that things like cities represented, size of fanbases, different ground access etc. is all just part and parcel of the inherent diversity of various teams in the league, many of which were known as teams became teams.

West Coast knew about the lengthy plane trips when they entered the league, but they also knew of a period of time when they could have an exclusive window as the only team in Perth before another team would come in, for example. So they could build a fanbase and benefit from that.

I'm not saying that is or isn't "fair" with the size of the fanbase or the amount of travel, just that it's not really relevant to how the league should equalise their competition. The same factors that make the plane trip long, also provide opportunity for West Coast to have a stronger net home ground fan-based advantage than the league average (given that the net advantage they have of their team's fans minus opposition fans across all their games is the largest in the league, even the St Kilda game I went to yesterday had a few thousand Eages fans among a sub 20k crowd, while, additionally, West Coast have greater familiarity with the two Melbourne stadiums, its dimensions, the fact many players have played there dozens of times before than 16 teams have familiarity with Perth). Both are realities of the nature of the city of Perth itself, and we shouldn't equate that away, because Perth developing the way it did had nothing to do with the sport.

The whole thing is ridiculous that Perth teams are claiming any sort of disadvantage. Perth's isolation has led to it growing as a city which has led to the strength of the two clubs, as much as it has made a plane trip longer.