Play Nice AFL Womens - General Discussion

[cats_09]

Good to see Albury playing nice and allowing these teams to relocate

 

[Clems Knee]

GWS relocating to Albury due to COVID

Albury is still NSW though? I think the hard border may still be up between NSW and WA by late January.

 

[GC2015]

Albury is still NSW though? I think the hard border may still be up between NSW and WA by late January.

Presumably this decision was made with the understanding that the WA government (and most likely other state governments) will make an exemption for the Giants if they remain in Albury. If you look at the draw, the Giants AFLW team is only required to leave NSW/ACT/VIC one time after round 1 and that's in the last round of the season when they are scheduled to play in Adelaide.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Article on the website explains the game plan.

AFLW Latest News - AFL.com.au/aflw

Latest breaking AFLW news from the official website of the Australian Football League.

womens.afl

Includes this:
"All GWS players are expected to make the trip except for utility Lou Stephenson, who is completing the final stages of her training with Fire and Rescue NSW."

So it turns out AFLW players by and large are willing to make sacrifices and unorthodox work arrangements in order to pursue football. Who would have thought.

The fact that any supposed supporter of women's footy could advocate for the league to turn its back on those players... deeply unsettling.

 

[CrowdedHouse]

Article on the website explains the game plan.

AFLW Latest News - AFL.com.au/aflw

Latest breaking AFLW news from the official website of the Australian Football League.

womens.afl

Includes this:
"All GWS players are expected to make the trip except for utility Lou Stephenson, who is completing the final stages of her training with Fire and Rescue NSW."

So it turns out AFLW players by and large are willing to make sacrifices and unorthodox work arrangements in order to pursue football. Who would have thought.

The fact that any supposed supporter of women's footy could advocate for the league to turn its back on those players... deeply unsettling.

Let's hope there's significant compensation from AFL HQ to the players who will have to take this leave from work for an unspecified period.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Let's hope there's significant compensation from AFL HQ to the players who will have to take this leave from work for an unspecified period.

Do we suddenly care about what's best for the GWS players now?

I don't know the extent of the compensation they will receive (though, for a start, I am vaguely familiar with the Travel Allowance clause in the CBA), I just hope the players are informed of all the necessary details.

At least this way they get to make decisions for themselves like big girls. They are owed that much, I'm sure.

 

[CrowdedHouse]

Do we suddenly care about what's best for the GWS players now?

I don't know the extent of the compensation they will receive (though, for a start, I am vaguely familiar with the Travel Allowance clause in the CBA), I just hope the players are informed of all the necessary details.

At least this way they get to make decisions for themselves like big girls. They are owed that much, I'm sure.

Hold your horses there!

The earlier post about having a standby team (and GWS players who were right now based outside of NSW) fill in for GWS on a temp basis, was due to the evolving situation, as one theory to look at.

As proven by Louise Stephenson who will not be intially able to join them due to Fire and Rescue NSW commitments, others might have been in the same boat... and as shown on a previous page in an Article by Bec Beeson about Jacinda Barclay, some of them were feeling the financial pressure.
Now, hopefully the NSW Covid situation will be brief... but on the worst case scenerio, could they spend as much as 4 months re-located?

There's also (at the time the post was made) considerations of what state governments will do with their borders. I know someone from GWS who last year was re-locating to WA due to their partner getting a job opportunity there. At the time WA had a hard border and they were waiting til the very last minute for a permit to enter - without the permit, they would have been turned around and denied entry.

Now currently WA have a 14 day quarantine for those arriving direct from Sydney (the current AFLW Albury to Melbourne plan in January is to avoid it), but if the NSW situation worsens, WA could harden the border and say no entry period to all NSW residents (hypothetical, but possible).

We also have the situation of 'Red Zones' in NSW expanding and more of those areas denied entry to Victoria. Add to that 3 covid cases now in Victoria (according to reports) *possibly* linked to the NSW clusters, we could see a full closure of the Victorian border to NSW, and possibly other states follow.

 

[Teen Wolf]

but on the worst case scenerio, could they spend as much as 4 months re-located?

I forgot, the fixture is set in stone. Regardless, that's up to each player to decide for herself, if it comes to that (which it won't).

To instantly leap to "sorry GWS, we're automatically replacing most of your list and staff, thereby decimating your team and dramatically distorting the competition, whether you like it or not" (an extreme action that should be reserved for the punishment of drug cheats) would be unconscionable.

Other than giving me hot-off-the-press pandemic updates, I don't know what the point of that longwinded post is.

 

[CrowdedHouse]

I forgot, the fixture is set in stone. Regardless, that's up to each player to decide for herself, if it comes to that (which it won't).

To instantly leap to "sorry GWS, we're automatically replacing most of your list and staff, thereby decimating your team and dramatically distorting the competition, whether you like it or not" (an extreme action that should be reserved for the punishment of drug cheats) would be unconscionable.

Other than giving me hot-off-the-press pandemic updates, I don't know what the point of that longwinded post is.

TLDR version for you.

My original theory was based upon that GWS players located currently in Sydney *may not* have a choice, due to restrictions placed on Sydney residents by the NSW or other state governments.

 

[Teen Wolf]

TLDR version for you.

My original theory was based upon that GWS players located currently in Sydney *may not* have a choice, due to restrictions placed on Sydney residents by the NSW or other state governments.

The only person talking about depriving them of that choice is you. Even if the doomsday scenario (which you're needlessly obsessed with) happens, wherein players can't travel/hub despite their willingness, then it's simple: matches get postponed.

GWS are competing in the competition, they are no longer GWS when largely replaced by CrowdedHouse's favourite undrafted VFLW players. You had your Victorian hat on, as usual, when making that ridiculous suggestion.

 

[Biggie]

Ok lads

From my POV, you are both very much in favour of the women’s game, but have differing opinions. And that’s great

I think we let it go through to the keeper now eh?

Enjoy your NYE

Peace

 

[Teen Wolf]

I'm going to continue expressing opinions regarding relevant topics on here, in my typical pointed but abuse-free humour-laced style.

Anybody wishing to challenge my views, while abiding board rules, is encouraged to do so. This latest issue and its corresponding discussion is just beginning (naive to think otherwise) and I'll be commenting on it a lot more as the situation develops.

Plus, I'd rather earn the final say than have it awarded to me.

 

[Biggie]

I'm going to continue expressing opinions regarding relevant topics on here, in my typical pointed but abuse-free humour-laced style.

Yes, but please don't go around and around. Take it to a PM

I value your opinion quite highly - so what are your thoughts with WA xlosing the border to viic now with the AFLW season 4 weeks away :|

Plus, I'd rather earn the final say than have it awarded to me.

Haha

 

[Biggie]

 

[Biggie]

AFLW Season 2021 Update

Its looking more and more likely the 2021 AFLW season will be placed into hubs due to the current ongoing situation with Covid19 in New South Wales as well as Victoria now with the WA government bringing back its hard boarder with Victoria as of tomorrow.

The AFLW is considering hosting hubs in Western Australia, South Australia, Queensland & Northern Territory if the situation worsens over the next fortnight with the AFLW season set to begin in late January.

 

[CrowdedHouse]

The only person talking about depriving them of that choice is you. Even if the doomsday scenario (which you're needlessly obsessed with) happens, wherein players can't travel/hub despite their willingness, then it's simple: matches get postponed.

GWS are competing in the competition, they are no longer GWS when largely replaced by CrowdedHouse's favourite undrafted VFLW players. You had your Victorian hat on, as usual, when making that ridiculous suggestion.

Nice to assume I was coming at it with a Victorian basis, just a shame you were factually wrong. Nowhere did I mention Victorian players, I said players from other states... which could mean SA (since more players miss out there due to just one team) or Qld (which is coming on strong), or a mixture - it never was exclusive to one state.

Oh, and laughing off my scenario about border restrictions... I was just proven right. Victoria is closing it's border with NSW tonight (and WA is about to do that to Victoria as well).

Slow clap for Teen Wolf everybody, slow clap please.

 

[Aardvark]

I reckon there's a fair chance this season will be postponed or cancelled.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Nice to assume I was coming at it with a Victorian basis, just a shame you were factually wrong. Nowhere did I mention Victorian players, I said players from other states... which could mean SA (since more players miss out there due to just one team) or Qld (which is coming on strong), or a mixture - it never was exclusive to one state.

Oh, and laughing off my scenario about border restrictions... I was just proven right. Victoria is closing it's border with NSW tonight (and WA is about to do that to Victoria as well).

You wouldn’t be campaigning for the shunning of Sydney-based players if your investment in NSW footy was equal to your investment in VIC footy, that’s a fact. Just as you’d have never peddled the “VFLW>AFLW” myth if you duly respected what all states contribute to the national league.

It wasn’t the prospect of border restrictions that I called ridiculous, rather your interpretation of the ramifications. Are you going to start campaigning for Melbourne-based clubs and players to be replaced, now that the situation in Victoria has recently worsened?

Yes, but please don't go around and around. Take it to a PM

I value your opinion quite highly - so what are your thoughts with WA xlosing the border to viic now with the AFLW season 4 weeks away :|

What might’ve seemed like counterproductive tedium was actually a diligent attempt to ensure I understood CH’s suggestion, one I can still hardly believe. I have asked an additional follow-up question in this post, which will finally reveal to me the logic of his proposal, thereby resolving any confusion and ending the need for further correspondence.

To answer your question, though, I might have to engage in a little more constructive repetition: as long as the vast majority of players are willing (where necessary), hubs and rescheduling games are the solution to border restrictions.

I reckon there's a fair chance this season will be postponed or cancelled.

Almost zero chance of the season not being completed imo. Every concerned party is thoroughly prepared to deal with the potential obstacles this time around, as opposed to not being prepared at all last year.

 

[Biggie]

I reckon there's a fair chance this season will be postponed or cancelled.

Postponed yes. Cancelled? No

 

[Clems Knee]

I reckon there's a fair chance this season will be postponed or cancelled.

Almost zero chance of the season not being completed imo. Every concerned party is thoroughly prepared to deal with the potential obstacles this time around, as opposed to not being prepared at all last year.

Postponed yes. Cancelled? No

Have the AFL or AFLW leadership and AFLPA commented on their handling of the last weeks of the 2020 season? I realise that the pandemic was a very fast moving beast at the time, but the approach to the women’s game (cancelled, not postponed; no result) compared to the men’s game seemed to indicate that AFLW were far down in the list of priorities of the power brokers.

I would love to hear of what contingencies the clubs and AFLW have planned in case of further breakouts. I think that the chances of WA changing their stance (2 week quarantine for entrants to the state) from what they’ve done for all other sporting codes is zero. Does that mean hubs in WA are out of the question, or more likely given they will be safer?
If there are hubs does this mean they would go to Queensland again, where the government is (or was before the election) prepared to take risks and also pay for them?
How many of the players would be able to take leave from their daytime jobs over this time to go in hubs? Will this compromise the competition if, for example, 5 more players of one club were unable to commit than the average?

I am not yet convinced that the competition will be completed again in 2021.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Have the AFL or AFLW leadership and AFLPA commented on their handling of the last weeks of the 2020 season? I realise that the pandemic was a very fast moving beast at the time, but the approach to the women’s game (cancelled, not postponed; no result) compared to the men’s game seemed to indicate that AFLW were far down in the list of priorities of the power brokers.

It is far down on the list of priorities, but the only comment that really matters at this point is what Gillon McLachlan has said about the 2021 season: "If we need to we can go into hubs, our preference is not to, but we'll have the contingencies together in case." That was never talked about for the 2020 season, which isn't an insignificant detail.

How many of the players would be able to take leave from their daytime jobs over this time to go in hubs?

Well we know that all but one GWS player has committed to temporary relocation. We also know what Trent Cooper has said about Fremantle going into a hub:

"We've talked to our girls about that possibility, we're very positive if it comes about that we can hit those hubs in a positive mindset and enjoy that time together.

"The key is to have as short as possible time away from work. If we have to play games closer together than normal, we'd be up for that challenge for sure.

"Fingers crossed we don't have to, but we're more than happy to do so."

Will this compromise the competition if, for example, 5 more players of one club were unable to commit than the average?

Yes.

 

[jatz14]

Have the AFL or AFLW leadership and AFLPA commented on their handling of the last weeks of the 2020 season? I realise that the pandemic was a very fast moving beast at the time, but the approach to the women’s game (cancelled, not postponed; no result) compared to the men’s game seemed to indicate that AFLW were far down in the list of priorities of the power brokers.

I would love to hear of what contingencies the clubs and AFLW have planned in case of further breakouts. I think that the chances of WA changing their stance (2 week quarantine for entrants to the state) from what they’ve done for all other sporting codes is zero. Does that mean hubs in WA are out of the question, or more likely given they will be safer?
If there are hubs does this mean they would go to Queensland again, where the government is (or was before the election) prepared to take risks and also pay for them?
How many of the players would be able to take leave from their daytime jobs over this time to go in hubs? Will this compromise the competition if, for example, 5 more players of one club were unable to commit than the average?

I am not yet convinced that the competition will be completed again in 2021.

Gil has said not completing the season was a mistake.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[CrowdedHouse]

You wouldn’t be campaigning for the shunning of Sydney-based players if your investment in NSW footy was equal to your investment in VIC footy, that’s a fact. Just as you’d have never peddled the “VFLW>AFLW” myth if you duly respected what all states contribute to the national league.

The GWS theory was based on likely border/regional restrictions with a likelyhood that Sydney residents would be denied free movement - which I guessed correctly.

Now, this theory isn't about Vic/NSW bias, no matter what your delusional mind says, but rather simple math.

With a number of GWS players not based in Sydney, the good news was around half the side was located outside of Sydney (such as Cora and Brid in Perth) - thus only half-a-squad (call them top ups) would have been needed (then) to keep the season moving along with minimal interruption.


Now, the WA border closing to Victoria changes things again, so new theories to be looked at... and please try to understand Teen Wolf, this is about math, with anywhere from 2 to 8 sides additionally being impacted (depending on which theory you go with) opposed to just half-a-side.

These two theories are ideas withouth having to have all teams in a hub or the season pushed back several months.

1. Move the WA sides to say, the Northern Territory. I've seen elsewhere a few people suggest this, though I'm not a fan of it. This mean at least 60 women having to move for possibly up to 4 months, and some may not be able to due to work or family commitments. Also, GWS would be playing/be based out of either the same spot as the WA sides or another state (people on Twitter were asking why the ACT isn't an option).

2. Two conferences - Vic and non-Vic. As much as I hate conferences, my preferred option considering the large number of teams impacted, and would mean only the already re-locating GWS would be in a 'hub' situation.
I would move GWS (when permitted by state governments) to either the NT or SA. The 6 non-vic sides would play amongst themeselves, with movements between their borders (WA, Qld and SA/NT) currently open. The 8 vic sides would play amongst themselves, meaning travel outside the state (bar a few Tasmanian matches - which can be scrapped if border restrictions come in between Vic and Tas) is not required, giving a better chance of completing a Home and Away season. Finals format? Top 3 from each conference - now that would mean the Non-Vic conference teams now have a better chance of making the finals, but that would be seen as a reward for having to travel at least 4-5 times, while the Vics do not.

Theory 2 is not perfect - and of course I'll be accused of Vic bias by Teen Wolf because that's TW's default setting - but it means teams (excluding GWS) will not have to go into a hub.


AND for the record... I think there are too many Vic teams in the AFLW. My personal feeling is the AFL went the lazy option of attaching women's teams to established men's clubs, which in all reality is an invitational Melbourne Suburban Football League - not, and never will be, a true national league.
I would have rathered the AFLW follow the path of the WNBA and NWSL, and have the men's league fund the early years, but standalone women's teams with their own indenity be created.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Now, this theory isn't about Vic/NSW bias, no matter what your delusional mind says, but rather simple math.

With a number of GWS players not based in Sydney, the good news was around half the side was located outside of Sydney (such as Cora and Brid in Perth) - thus only half-a-squad (call them top ups) would have been needed (then) to keep the season moving along with minimal interruption.

The only delusion here is the idea that replacing half a team, even though they are willing to temporarily relocate, would have a minimal impact on the season.

And that's to say nothing of the irreparable longterm damage it would do to the development of the game in NSW, which you're also overlooking.

 

[Clems Knee]

The GWS theory was based on likely border/regional restrictions with a likelyhood that Sydney residents would be denied free movement - which I guessed correctly.

Now, this theory isn't about Vic/NSW bias, no matter what your delusional mind says, but rather simple math.

With a number of GWS players not based in Sydney, the good news was around half the side was located outside of Sydney (such as Cora and Brid in Perth) - thus only half-a-squad (call them top ups) would have been needed (then) to keep the season moving along with minimal interruption.


Now, the WA border closing to Victoria changes things again, so new theories to be looked at... and please try to understand Teen Wolf, this is about math, with anywhere from 2 to 8 sides additionally being impacted (depending on which theory you go with) opposed to just half-a-side.

These two theories are ideas withouth having to have all teams in a hub or the season pushed back several months.

1. Move the WA sides to say, the Northern Territory. I've seen elsewhere a few people suggest this, though I'm not a fan of it. This mean at least 60 women having to move for possibly up to 4 months, and some may not be able to due to work or family commitments. Also, GWS would be playing/be based out of either the same spot as the WA sides or another state (people on Twitter were asking why the ACT isn't an option).

2. Two conferences - Vic and non-Vic. As much as I hate conferences, my preferred option considering the large number of teams impacted, and would mean only the already re-locating GWS would be in a 'hub' situation.
I would move GWS (when permitted by state governments) to either the NT or SA. The 6 non-vic sides would play amongst themeselves, with movements between their borders (WA, Qld and SA/NT) currently open. The 8 vic sides would play amongst themselves, meaning travel outside the state (bar a few Tasmanian matches - which can be scrapped if border restrictions come in between Vic and Tas) is not required, giving a better chance of completing a Home and Away season. Finals format? Top 3 from each conference - now that would mean the Non-Vic conference teams now have a better chance of making the finals, but that would be seen as a reward for having to travel at least 4-5 times, while the Vics do not.

Theory 2 is not perfect - and of course I'll be accused of Vic bias by Teen Wolf because that's TW's default setting - but it means teams (excluding GWS) will not have to go into a hub.


AND for the record... I think there are too many Vic teams in the AFLW. My personal feeling is the AFL went the lazy option of attaching women's teams to established men's clubs, which in all reality is an invitational Melbourne Suburban Football League - not, and never will be, a true national league.
I would have rathered the AFLW follow the path of the WNBA and NWSL, and have the men's league fund the early years, but standalone women's teams with their own indenity be created.

The likelihood is that Victoria may have to shut down again, especially if NSW keeps seeding the virus there.
In this case both your options would result in the end of the competition, or at least its lengthy delay. It would be better to move the AFLW hubs to SA or WA, which hasn’t had community spread for almost 9 months. WA would have crowds attending all games, pretty much like before CoVid. Or again take advantage of the Queensland government’s largesse if that still applies.
If all clubs are in Perth or Adelaide, then a similar format that occurred in the AFL in 2020, where games every 5 days or so could reduce the time away from regular jobs to under 6 weeks.