All Australian thread 2015

[billy fragos]

Walker is better than both of them. Argument sorted

 

[richoatthedisco]

Jack Riewoldt is not a much better player than Jeremy Cameron. Don't be ridiculous

Yes, he is. Cameron is the most overrated player in the comp. Kicks more out the back goals than Luke Breust.

Jack is double and triple-teamed every week.

 

[Richo83]

I'm not sure Cameron is in contention for AA. Doesn't do enough around the ground for the CHF spot and doesn't kick enough goals to take the FF spot away from Kennedy.

 

[Back One Out]

Be interesting to see when players got the votes. It wouldn't surprise me if Cyril got a few high vote games and a number of no vote games, compared to other forwards getting lower votes in more games.

Yeah, nah.

No more so than other forwards…

AFLCA votes
Chad Wingard - 5, 1, 7 , 8, 6, 1, 6 , 1, 6, 6, 6, 5 = 58 votes
Cyril Rioli _- __5, 4, 8, 9, 10 = 36
Shaun Higgins - 1, 1, 9, 4, 2, 9, 10 = 36
Mark LeCras - 10, 1, 7, 10, 6 = 34
Eddie Betts _- _3, 3, 9, 10, 5 = 30
Michael Walters - 7, 3, 2, 8, 4, 2 = 26
Luke Breust _- _4, 3, 2, 3, 2, 3, 7 = 24

Cyril has played a lot of good games in 2015 and received 0 votes because the Hawks had 7 or 8 good players. The Hawks have been very even and Cyril has shared the spoils with Roughead, Gunston, Breust, Puopolo. The Hawks have a lot more players taking the votes than Port, Adelaide and North Melbourne. Luke Breust has polled in more games than Rioli, but I wouldn't say he has been the better player this year.

Rioli is currently third behind Mitchell and Hodge in the Hawks fans 'Player of the year' voting, which is a reasonably accurate indication of his good season. I reckon he would currently be placed 3rd or 4th in the best and fairest voting. Same goes for Betts, LeCras and Higgins. Wingard would vying for the Port B&F with Robbie Gray.

He seems to either be spectacular (and at his best can win a game by himself with just a dozen touches) or fairly quiet.

That's the perception, but not the reality. More applicable to Eddie Betts than Rioli, IMO

Most people only acknowledge Rioli's good games when he gets on the end of it and kicks a bag. He plays really well most weeks. He sets up a lot for his teammates, but he only kicks 1 or 2 goals and people who weren't at the game don't rate his performance.

Here's the Champion Data scores of the top small forwards - (scores in descending order, best to worst)

Wingard_138, 122, 122, 118, 105, 105, 105, 104, 104, 102, 100, 99, 93, 91, 86, 85, 83, 78, 77, 67
Rioli_WW120, 117, 104, 101, 100, _98, _98, _98, 96, 95, 93, 91, 91, 87, 84, 74, 73, 69, 67
Betts_W_154, 134, 113, 113, 106, _96, _92, _89, 88, 75, 75, 74, 74, 72, 60, 57, 54, 44, 39
HigginsW145, 138, 131, 117, 103, 102, 100, _99, 95, 91, 90, 90, 82, 82, 78, 78, 76, 66, 65, 61
LeCras__117, 107, 103, 100, _94, _90, _90, _89, 83, 82, 82, 79, 76, 71, 67, 63, 60, 55, 55
Walters_123, 112, 105, 101, 100, _99, _99, _99, 98, 94, 79, 74, 72, 71, 66, 66, 52, 52, 49, 16
Breust__139, 131, 126, 105, 100, _95, _87, _86, 85, 80, 76, 73, 71, 70, 69, 64, 62, 58, 48, 38

There hasn't as much variation from high to low in Rioli's performances as some of the other small forwards.
He scores anywhere from 90 to 100 in most games.

Champion Data isn't perfect, but it's not a bad reflection either.
Rioli's median score is second best behind Wingard

 

[Richo83]

FB: Boyd Rance Wood
CHB: Shaw McGovern R Murphy
C: Gaff Fyfe Gray
CHF: Dangerfield Walker Wingard
FF: Rioli Kennedy Betts
R: Goldstein Kennedy Priddis
Int: Naitanui Sandilands Deledio Pendlebury

Before every man and his dog tells me that there can't be three ruckmen as that's unrealistic, this whole team is unrealistic.

 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

Yeah, nah.

No more so than other forwards…

AFLCA votes
Chad Wingard - 5, 1, 7 , 8, 6, 1, 6 , 1, 6, 6, 6, 5 = 58 votes
Cyril Rioli _- __5, 4, 8, 9, 10 = 36
Shaun Higgins - 1, 1, 9, 4, 2, 9, 10 = 36
Mark LeCras - 10, 1, 7, 10, 6 = 34
Eddie Betts _- _3, 3, 9, 10, 5 = 30
Michael Walters - 7, 3, 2, 8, 4, 2 = 26
Luke Breust _- _4, 3, 2, 3, 2, 3, 7 = 24

Cyril has played a lot of good games in 2015 and received 0 votes because the Hawks had 7 or 8 good players. The Hawks have been very even and Cyril has shared the spoils with Roughead, Gunston, Breust, Puopolo. The Hawks have a lot more players taking the votes than Port, Adelaide and North Melbourne. Luke Breust has polled in more games than Rioli, but I wouldn't say he has been the better player this year.

Rioli is currently third behind Mitchell and Hodge in the Hawks fans 'Player of the year' voting, which is a reasonably accurate indication of his good season. I reckon he would currently be placed 3rd or 4th in the best and fairest voting. Same goes for Betts, LeCras and Higgins. Wingard would vying for the Port B&F with Robbie Gray.

That's the perception, but not the reality. More applicable to Eddie Betts than Rioli, IMO

Most people only acknowledge Rioli's good games when he gets on the end of it and kicks a bag. He plays really well most weeks. He sets up a lot for his teammates, but he only kicks 1 or 2 goals and people who weren't at the game don't rate his performance.

Here's the Champion Data scores of the top small forwards - (scores in descending order, best to worst)

Wingard_138, 122, 122, 118, 105, 105, 105, 104, 104, 102, 100, 99, 93, 91, 86, 85, 83, 78, 77, 67
Rioli_WW120, 117, 104, 101, 100, _98, _98, _98, 96, 95, 93, 91, 91, 87, 84, 74, 73, 69, 67
Betts_W_154, 134, 113, 113, 106, _96, _92, _89, 88, 75, 75, 74, 74, 72, 60, 57, 54, 44, 39
HigginsW145, 138, 131, 117, 103, 102, 100, _99, 95, 91, 90, 90, 82, 82, 78, 78, 76, 66, 65, 61
LeCras__117, 107, 103, 100, _94, _90, _90, _89, 83, 82, 82, 79, 76, 71, 67, 63, 60, 55, 55
Walters_123, 112, 105, 101, 100, _99, _99, _99, 98, 94, 79, 74, 72, 71, 66, 66, 52, 52, 49, 16
Breust__139, 131, 126, 105, 100, _95, _87, _86, 85, 80, 76, 73, 71, 70, 69, 64, 62, 58, 48, 38

There hasn't as much variation from high to low in Rioli's performances as some of the other small forwards.
He scores anywhere from 90 to 100 in most games.

Champion Data isn't perfect, but it's not a bad reflection either.
Rioli's median score is second best behind Wingard

Good analysis. I like it. Shows that perceptions can be different to reality.

 

[richoatthedisco]

M Murphy

Do you mean R Murphy?

 

[Back One Out]

R: Goldstein
Int: Naitanui Sandilands
Before every man and his dog tells me that there can't be three ruckmen as that's unrealistic, this whole team is unrealistic.

I would get all three in for every ruck contest and tell them to play volleyball with each other.
Unstoppable. You couldn't tackle them, otherwise it would be a free kick for holding the man.

When opponents are taking set shots at goal from 50m or further, Sandi and Goldi could stand on the goal line and provide a launch pad for NicNat to get up there and get his hand on the ball (a bit like the Rugby union line outs)

 

[BEaston]

Boyd ~ Rance ~ Wood
Shaw ~ McGovern ~ Murphy
Gaff ~ Hannebery ~ Dangerfield
Stringer ~ Walker ~ Wingard
Rioli ~ Kennedy ~ Betts

Goldstein ~ Fyfe ~ Priddis

Naitanui ~ Gray ~ Mitchell ~ Kennedy

 

[Fyfey4Brownlow]

Sheppard Rance Shaw
Mitchell Hurley Wood
Gaff Priddis Hannebery
Wingard Riewoldt Stringer
Betts Kennedy Rioli

Goldstein Dangerfield Fyfe

Naitanui Martin Gray Mundy

5 Eagles

Eagles are baaaad just priddis m8

 

[Fyfey4Brownlow]

Eagles are baaaad just priddis m8

Oh and Kennedy

 

[Ramify]

Oh and Kennedy

Gaff? Lol.

 

[1990crow]

Walker AA? Nope. Rory Laird however, yes.

 

[The_Eagles]

Oh and Kennedy

And Naitanui Merv

 

[Richo83]

I would get all three in for every ruck contest and tell them to play volleyball with each other.
Unstoppable. You couldn't tackle them, otherwise it would be a free kick for holding the man.

When opponents are taking set shots at goal from 50m or further, Sandi and Goldi could stand on the goal line and provide a launch pad for NicNat to get up there and get his hand on the ball (a bit like the Rugby union line outs)

Well played.

But seriously, this team will never play a match, so what's the point of making the bench realistic? I mean I kinda get why they pick all of the positions so players in different positions in the league are rewarded, but the interchange surely should be the best players that haven't been picked yet on the field. If any of these three have played against a dud ruckman or a ruckman who played badly, their side automatically wins. How many players give their team that much of an advantage?

 

[BusinessMan]

Do people actually consider Priddis to have had a better season than the likes of Mundy and Gray? The guy should be borderline squad material imo.

 

[NinjaSwan]

Do people actually consider Priddis to have had a better season than the likes of Mundy and Gray? The guy should be borderline squad material imo.

Didn't rate his 2014 season at all but I think he has had a very good season this year, the other WC mids improving has made him more damaging and he has been setting up a lot of goals this year, 3rd in the league in goal assists.

 

[ROYAL EAGLE]

Do people actually consider Priddis to have had a better season than the likes of Mundy and Gray? The guy should be borderline squad material imo.

Seriously you are clueless, Priddis is easily having the best season of his career.
Most of us eagles fans that don't like Priddis have eaten humble pie this year, as he has been superb.
He is doing everything better, his ability to deliver the ball to our forwards with silver service this year has been remarkable.
His kicking all year has been so much better.

 

[Back One Out]

this team will never play a match, so what's the point of making the bench realistic? I mean I kinda get why they pick all of the positions so players in different positions in the league are rewarded, but the interchange surely should be the best players that haven't been picked yet on the field. If any of these three have played against a dud ruckman or a ruckman who played badly, their side automatically wins. How many players give their team that much of an advantage?

It's an unwritten rule that the team of the year must be realistic in terms of team balance and positioning. If you're the third best ruckman of the year, then you miss out. Simple. They normally pick one, but if two ruck men were dominant, they fit them both in. The second best ruckman or second best full forward can be placed in a forward pocket, but three is too much of a stretch.

Being the third best ruckman means you're not worthy of All-Australian honours.

The All-Australian team may not play an actual match, but the idea is to pretend they will and to reward the top performers of the season.

 

[fidstar]

The All-Australian team may not play an actual match, but the idea is to pretend they will and to reward the top performers of the season.

While I'm not saying all 3 should be in it, the bolded bit doesn't support your argument.

If 3 full forwards kick 100 goals next year, I'd be pretty disappointed if they all didn't get named to the AA squad.

 

[Fyfey4Brownlow]

And Naitanui Merv

Nah Sandi reks naty...swarbsss

 

[Doggies_2008]

Do people actually consider Priddis to have had a better season than the likes of Mundy and Gray? The guy should be borderline squad material imo.

Priddis is a shoe in after missing the team last year. And to answer your question, yes

 

[Back One Out]

While I'm not saying all 3 should be in it, the bolded bit doesn't support your argument.

If 3 full forwards kick 100 goals next year, I'd be pretty disappointed if they all didn't get named to the AA squad.

Dunstall kicked 123 goals from 21 games in 1993 (inc, 6 in the Elimination Final.) He won his 4th best and fairest for Hawthorn and went within 2 votes of winning the Brownlow. He missed All-Australian selection. The selectors thought he was the third best full forward that year.

In the end, the All-Australian team is just the opinion of 6 or 7 people… A lot of deserving players miss out every season. We probably shouldn't place too much importance on Luke Darcy or Mark Ricciuto's favourite players. It should never be used as "proof" why Player X is better than Player Y in arguments at the pub or here on Big Footy.


1993 Coleman Medal (to Round 22)
124_Gary Ablett - 2nd in Geelong's best and fairest
119_Tony Modra
117_Jason Dunstall - won Hawthorn's best and fairest
75__John Longmire
73__Saverio Rocca
72__Peter Sumich


1993 Brownlow Medal
18 Gavin Wanganeen
17 Garry Hocking, Greg Williams
16 Jason Dunstall, Wayne Carey
14 Nathan Buckley, Wayne Schwass, Leon Cameron
13 Gary Ablett, Matthew Knights
12 Robert Harvey, Damian Monkhorst, Jim Stynes, Scott Wynd
11 Tony Modra, Tony McGuinness, Shaun Rehn, Ben Allan, Paul Kelly


1993 All Australian team
B:__Ben Hart (Adel)______Alastair Lynch (Fitz)_._Gavin Wanganeen (Ess)
HB:_Guy McKenna (WCE)__Mark Harvey (Ess)__._Andrew McKay (Carl)
C:__Greg Anderson (Adel)_Greg Williams (Carl)__Peter Matera (WCE)
HF:_Craig Bradley (Carl)__Wayne Carey c (NM)__Garry Lyon (Melb)
F:__Garry Hocking (Geel)._Gary Ablett (Geel)__...Tony Modra (Adel)
R:__Jim Stynes (Melb)____Ben Allan (Haw)___.__Tony McGuinness (Adel)
Int: Nigel Smart (Adel)____Nathan Burke (St K)

 

[Richo83]

It's an written rule that the team of the year must be realistic in terms of team balance and positioning. If you're the third best ruckman of the year, then you miss out. Simple. They normally pick one, but if two ruck men were dominant, they fit them both in. The second best ruckman or second best full forward can be placed in a forward pocket, but three is too much of a stretch.

Being the third best ruckman means you're not worthy of All-Australian honours.

The All-Australian team may not play an actual match, but the idea is to pretend they will and to reward the top performers of the season.

And yet Naitanui, Sandilands and Goldstein have all dominated at an almost unprecedented level this year. And as fidstar points out, rewarding the top performers of the season, IMO means all three should be in. All three have been IMO legitimately in the top 20 or so players in the league.

I just don't understand why the third best ruckman should be left out while the 13th or whatever midfielder should be kept in.

 

[NinjaSwan]

And yet Naitanui, Sandilands and Goldstein have all dominated at an almost unprecedented level this year. And as fidstar points out, rewarding the top performers of the season, IMO means all three should be in. All three have been IMO legitimately in the top 20 or so players in the league.

I just don't understand why the third best ruckman should be left out while the 13th or whatever midfielder should be kept in.

Picking 2 ruckmen is unrealistic to what a team would pick, 3 is going too far it's the best side not best 22 players.