All things Politics

[DinoSoar]

It is recognised that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• Use the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates this forum that does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Maggie5 Gone Critical Anzacday Jen2310

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

What are 'the protests by the Left'?

For example...

College campus protests in Australia and US

Protest marches in Sydney, Melbourne, London

 

[sr36]

I accept that

But do you think that the protests by the Left have been absent of anti-semitism ?

I think the pushing of a manipulative trope has increased. And a heap of fascist rhetoric has been rolled out with people not necessarily realising that they're parroting neo nazi and Islamic fundamentalist groups. And an increased blurring of Israel with the Jewish diaspora and most likely increased negative attitudes towards the diaspora. The last bit is a bit like Hamas hiding behind civilians as Israelis anti-Semitic card has contributed to the blurred lines, as have the Libs statements around anti-Semitism.

Assumedly the left has contributed or turned a blind eye the most as they've been the more pro-Palestine side, and most significantly haven't called out anti-Semitism when it's come from a voice in their side or stood happily alongside and chanting from the river to sea Palestine will always be free - not necessarily anti-Semitic in my opinion, but aligning with a heap of voices that clearly are.

 

[JB1975]

For example...

College campus protests in Australia and US

Protest marches in Sydney, Melbourne, London

A long exchange of posts in this thread has demonstrated that the definition of antisemitism is unclear.

If you preface the question with your own definition/understanding of antisemitism, I could possibly answer.

 

[sr36]

A long exchange of posts in this thread has demonstrated that the definition of antisemitism is unclear.

If you preface the question with your own definition/understanding of antisemitism, I could possibly answer.

The funny thing is the Palestinians are as Semitic as the Israelis - more Semitic when you factor in the Yiddish and Russian in Israel.

 

[Markfs]

The number of Palestinian civilian deaths and permanent injuries is terrible

Excessive Israeli force, not least of all dumb bombs, has been terrible

These deaths have been welcomed by Hamas' leader Sinwar to galvanise support

And these deaths have been orchestrated/exacerbated by Sinwar and other Hamas leaders positioning bases and defence materiel beneath sensitive civilian infrastructure and gatherings

Enforced martyrdom has driven these average daily numbers much higher



(the Oxfam average deaths also looks too low at least for Ukraine war and Syrian war; data starts at Year 2000 so misses earlier conflicts with higher daily deaths, and compares longer conflicts where average daily deaths fall as conflicts become frozen. All this skews Israel to look 'the worst' and justify more coverage than any other conflict possibly since the Vietnam War)

Quite a few of your thoughts, walter, so let me give you a referenced statement and my attempt at a hunch.

1. I'm sure sinwar would be happy to get a palestinian homeland without the deaths of palestinians. However, there is quote in an article by Ishaan Tharoor that states, " The incident apparently elicited a similar reaction from Yehiya Sinwar, the shadowy Hamas leader within Gaza who is considered to be one of the masterminds of the Oct. 7 attack. In an April 11 message to Haniyeh, Sinwar allegedly told his colleague that the loss of his sons and other Palestinians during the war would “infuse life into the veins of this nation, prompting it to rise to its glory and honor.” I highlighted a few words to demonstrate the level of journalism. However, even if sinwar made such a statement, maybe he went to the winston churchill school of reacting to civilian deaths.

2. I'm sure that he would be happy to have his three sons and his grandchildren back.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/06/12/hamas-death-toll-gaza-sinwar-messages/

 

[Markfs]

The funny thing is the Palestinians are as Semitic as the Israelis - more Semitic when you factor in the Yiddish and Russian in Israel.

the last time that i looked there were 50,000 jewish americans in the West Bank. I'm not sure about their status - whether they're single passport and have a handful of them, but evidently they came from the USA.

According to 2015 research by Hirschhorn for Oxford University, an estimated 60,000 American Jews lived in West Bank settlements. Hirschhorn said that these figures didn't count suburban neighborhoods of Jerusalem over the Green Line and the number could be much higher.28 Dec 2023

The Jewish Settlers 'Living the American Dream' in the West ...​

Business Insider
https://www.businessinsider.com › Politics

 

[sr36]

the last time that i looked there were 50,000 jewish americans in the West Bank. I'm not sure about their status - whether they're single passport and have a handful of them, but evidently they came from the USA.

According to 2015 research by Hirschhorn for Oxford University, an estimated 60,000 American Jews lived in West Bank settlements. Hirschhorn said that these figures didn't count suburban neighborhoods of Jerusalem over the Green Line and the number could be much higher.28 Dec 2023

The Jewish Settlers 'Living the American Dream' in the West ...​

View attachment 2029401
Business Insider
https://www.businessinsider.com › Politics

I think you misunderstood. Im just talking about language groups. Not making a larger statement than it's strange that the word we use for anti-Jewish, uses an old fashioned word that describes both Arabic and Hebrew or Jews and Palestines, as we used to group cultures by language group.

 

[Markfs]

I think you misunderstood. Im just talking about language groups. Not making a larger statement than it's strange that the word we use for anti-Jewish, uses an old fashioned word that describes both Arabic and Hebrew or Jews and Palestines, as we used to group cultures by language group.

sorry i thought you were pointing out that every israeli in the street that i've seen interviewed in the last 9 months seems to be fly-in fly-out and apparently a number of them have been flying out in recent months...

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

Quite a few of your thoughts, walter, so let me give you a referenced statement and my attempt at a hunch.

1. I'm sure sinwar would be happy to get a palestinian homeland without the deaths of palestinians. However, there is quote in an article by Ishaan Tharoor that states, " The incident apparently elicited a similar reaction from Yehiya Sinwar, the shadowy Hamas leader within Gaza who is considered to be one of the masterminds of the Oct. 7 attack. In an April 11 message to Haniyeh, Sinwar allegedly told his colleague that the loss of his sons and other Palestinians during the war would “infuse life into the veins of this nation, prompting it to rise to its glory and honor.” I highlighted a few words to demonstrate the level of journalism. However, even if sinwar made such a statement, maybe he went to the winston churchill school of reacting to civilian deaths.

2. I'm sure that he would be happy to have his three sons and his grandchildren back.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/06/12/hamas-death-toll-gaza-sinwar-messages/

The qualifications in the article are likely because US intelligence / State Dept briefed the journos


Additionally, There were reports that the US was frustrated by planned Rafah operations by IDF because they believe Sinwar is in a deep Khan Younis tunnel

 

[Markfs]

The qualifications in the article are likely because US intelligence / State Dept briefed the journos


Additionally, There were reports that the US was frustrated by planned Rafah operations by IDF because they believe Sinwar is in a deep Khan Younis tunnel

well evidently his mother's still alive....

 

[Markfs]

The US has lodged paperwork in the north mariana islands regarding julian assange....evidently the south mariana islands courthouse was busy. Viva democracy...

 

[petrie pie]

Juliian Assange goes free at last but he had to plead guilty to 1 charge of a breach of national security. The only reason they held him and probably the only reason they let him was because he had to plead guilty to breaching state secrets so the US got what it wanted all along.

I think he did the sensible thing after all they were probably going to keep him in prison till he died his charges like most things that originate from the US these days were politically motivated and probably will not help the US in any way.

So although he has a conviction against his name he is more or less a political prisoner funny that I thought only Russia and China had political prisoners, who would have thought it.

 

[Markfs]

Juliian Assange goes free at last but he had to plead guilty to 1 charge of a breach of national security. The only reason they held him and probably the only reason they let him was because he had to plead guilty to breaching state secrets so the US got what it wanted all along.

I think he did the sensible thing after all they were probably going to keep him in prison till he died his charges like most things that originate from the US these days were politically motivated and probably will not help the US in any way.

So although he has a conviction against his name he is more or less a political prisoner funny that I thought only Russia and China had political prisoners, who would have thought it.

if he could have got his hands on an israeli passport, he could have gone and lived in israel with no worries

How Jewish American pedophiles hide from justice in Israel

One woman who helps track suspects down says the little-discussed problem is widespread; "the exact same thing" as the sex abuse scandal in the Catholic Church.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[sideswipe]

if he could have got his hands on an israeli passport, he could have gone and lived in israel with no worries

How Jewish American pedophiles hide from justice in Israel

One woman who helps track suspects down says the little-discussed problem is widespread; "the exact same thing" as the sex abuse scandal in the Catholic Church.

www.cbsnews.com

You ever thought about finding a new hobby?

 

[Black_White]

Big shout out to Penny Wong..
Great work.

 

[Markfs]

You ever thought about finding a new hobby?

I've got a few. I do have a telescope that I bought during covid that I never really got around to putting the work in. However, posting on BF doesnt really take up much of my time.

How about you, wipey? Is the respect and admiration from BFers suffice or maybe you pine for younger days....

 

[Markfs]

I was listening to a richard fidler podcast out in the car.....conversation with john lyons. Evidently it is going to be available on ABC site later today. He worked for the ABC and lived in Jerusalem. The examples that he gave of life in jerusalem....would inform most australians. I recommend it if that means anything, as being confronting about how you or I might deal with life as an ordinary palestinian.

I noticed that he was responsible for a four corners episode...

The Forever War

Four Corners is the home of Australian investigative journalism.

www.abc.net.au

 

[sideswipe]

I've got a few. I do have a telescope that I bought during covid that I never really got around to putting the work in. However, posting on BF doesnt really take up much of my time.

How about you, wipey? Is the respect and admiration from BFers suffice or maybe you pine for younger days....

I meant you might need a new BF hobby.

 

[sr36]

I've got a few. I do have a telescope that I bought during covid that I never really got around to putting the work in.

Is there work to put in? Don't you just look at stuff through the small end?

 

[sideswipe]

Is there work to put in? Don't you just look at stuff through the small end?

I did discover that the optimal time to use a telescope coincides with a time when vision might be sub-optimal.

 

[ZEV]

Neighbours got mad when they caught him peeping in the windows

 

[IlovethePies]

if he could have got his hands on an israeli passport, he could have gone and lived in israel with no worries

How Jewish American pedophiles hide from justice in Israel

One woman who helps track suspects down says the little-discussed problem is widespread; "the exact same thing" as the sex abuse scandal in the Catholic Church.

www.cbsnews.com

Still peddling the bogus sex crime accusataions made against Assange by two Swedish operatives and the CIA, allied with msm. You've just gone another step further than them in depravity by adding pedophilia to the fraudulent accusations of rape. Considering how your moral stature as a smug and ignorant keyboard warrior who has no accountability for the sh** he posts online, compares with a man like Julian Assange, it makes your comment more nauseating even than it is stupid.

 

[gouki88]

Still peddling the bogus sex crime accusataions made against Assange by two Swedish operatives and the CIA, allied with msm. You've just gone another step further than them in depravity by adding pedophilia to the fraudulent accusations of rape. Considering how your moral stature as a smug and ignorant keyboard warrior who has no accountability for the sh** he posts online, compares with a man like Julian Assange, it makes your comment more nauseating even than it is stupid.

I'm interested in your takes on Assange's politics. A lot of his ideas reek of fairly standard RW libertarianism (forgive the shallow labels, they're easier). I'd have imagined you would be fairly opposed to him for the most part.

This is not saying he ought to be locked up, by the way.

 

[IlovethePies]

I'm interested in your takes on Assange's politics. A lot of his ideas reek of fairly standard RW libertarianism (forgive the shallow labels, they're easier). I'd have imagined you would be fairly opposed to him for the most part.

This is not saying he ought to be locked up, by the way.

I am not concerned much about his personal politics. What I know is that he has fought for the truth, and sacrificed years of his life as a result. He is a journalist who is profoundly committed to the right of the public to know the truth about the crimes and the diplomatic intrigues of US imperialism and its allies. His only crime has ever been that he had the "audacity"" to expose the war crimes of the US in Iraq and Afghanistan, and its deals/agreements with dictatorships.

Assange has always followed a supreme personal conviction: that in a democracy, every person has the right to know the truth about government criminality.

For that alone, he stands heads and shoulders above all the right wing, corrupt, bought out " journalists" who today function not as journalists but as propaganda agents for imperialist governments.

Assange has immense personal courage, because he knew the risks to his personal safety that he was taking by publishing material such as Collateral Murder, which had the power to radicalise opinion.

Indeed, the exposure of US government crimes by Wikileaks played a significant role in the radicalisation of the masses that took place in Egypt and Tunisia (and in other Arab countries) in 2010 during the Arab spring.

Men like Assange need to be celebrated for their immense bravery, resilience, and the example they set to never accept government criminality, but instead fight to expose it and warn others about it.

 

[Markfs]

I meant you might need a new BF hobby.

well i respect your expertise, swipey.