Society/Culture Andrew Thorburn - Controversial appointment as Essendon CEO. Broader discussion not for the AFL board..

[PhatBoy]

The bible says a lot of ridiculous things.

So do Richmond fans. Doesn’t stop you supporting them.

 

[Soggy2112]

I've had similar questions in the past, I'm not an expert but I've had discussions with others about this stuff in the past. My understanding is that much of the genocide and slaughter occurred in context to communities and people who were committing atrocities such as child sacrifice and other equally grievous things. The consequence of this sort of living/sin was, in effect, their death.

Again, could be wrong, but this is my recollection.

The Bible also says that God loves unconditionally. Committing genocide out of righteous anger and condemning those people to hell is not what I’d call unconditional love.

Now, Christians will often justify that by saying it was before the sacrifice made by Jesus, but we’re also taught to believe that God is unchanging, meaning the same God that wiped out entire cities, and in one case supposedly the whole world, is apparently the same God which now loves and forgives unconditionally?

We’re also taught to believe that all sin is equal, so when I have a wank I’ve committed an equivalent act to what God saw as justification to wipe out a whole city back in the Old Testament.

These are the kind of questions I could never get answers to.

 

[mxett]

Again, you are incorrect.

For example, the Bible makes it very clear that wives submit to their husbands.

“Wives, submit to your own husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.” Ephesians 5: 22-24

So being a woman is clearly inferior to being a man.

It was written in the context of life at the time. This is not a practice followed within the larger church now.

Nor is it a reflection on superiority or inferiority. It related to family structures at the time written

 

[Souup]

But isn't God all-knowing? Isn't everything part of His plan? Isn't everything we do due to the grace of God?

Why did he create the people that he then needed to massacre? Why did he need to murder innocent children to teach people a lesson? If He is real, he is a f@#king nut case that seems to be more qualified to run hell than heaven.

Not sure mate, I don't have all the answers.

What I can say is that a majority of the Christians I've met have been reasonable people who aren't hateful in the least. They've all engaged with me respectfully, regardless of what I believe.

I'm well aware this is not the experience of everyone, which is a shame.

 

[TheBigHorne]

So God creates s**t people and then asks them to spend their whole life apologising to him for the way he made them or he will torture them for eternity. Seems like a pretty screwed-up thing to believe.

According to Christians he has also committed multiple genocides, slaughtered people just for fun (bet against the devil that he can kill someone's family and the father will still love him), and had to create rainbows to remind him not to massacre millions of people when he was having a bad day. But apparently he loves us.

If true, what sort of psychopath are we dealing with? This is one serious f@#ked up abusive relationship.

Had a friend's cousin who passed away at a very very young age. It happened out of the blue as well.

A bunch of people said it was all part of 'God's plan' and stuff. Truly mind boggling.

If God is real, and said being gay is bad, I'd still be part of the LGBTQ+ community because I'm not going to worship a dickhead.

 

[zeggie]

So God creates s**t people and then asks them to spend their whole life apologising to him for the way he made them or he will torture them for eternity. Seems like a pretty screwed-up thing to believe.

According to Christians he has also committed multiple genocides, slaughtered people just for fun (bet against the devil that he can kill someone's family and the father will still love him), and had to create rainbows to remind him not to massacre millions of people when he was having a bad day. But apparently he loves us.

If true, what sort of psychopath are we dealing with? This is one serious f@#ked up abusive relationship.

Not only did Jesus die for our sins, the bugger rose from the dead 3 days later. Add gaslighting to the mix!

 

[gouki88]

Little tiny bit of NUANCE as far as the muslim chick not playing pride round goes, she said at some point that showing support for Gay Pride Round would hurt her community, I took that to mean that maybe she would be at risk of being ostracized from other muslims, maybe her mum would be really upset with her or her brother would throw stones at her etc.

I think if your family is going to hate you because you wore rainbow flag then maybe you could sit out wearing rainbow flag?

Still reckon she can get in the bin though.

If that's the case then throw the whole family in the bin

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

It was written in the context of life at the time. This is not a practice followed within the larger church now.

Nor is it a reflection on superiority or inferiority. It related to family structures at the time written

So, we can toss out that particular verse (and the dozens of others on the matter) because of family structure but it is ok for the crazies in the cult to continue to denounce gays? It seems you are picking and choosing what is acceptable and what is not based on personal bias or what you have been told. Some parts of the doctrine are to be believed and followed, others not. Well explain to me how we are supposed to know which is which. Who makes that decision?

I don't think you are being deliberately obtuse but I do wonder whether you are brainwashed because I am becoming more convinced that you are involved in this cult with every one of your posts.

 

[GWT6]

It was written in the context of life at the time. This is not a practice followed within the larger church now.

Nor is it a reflection on superiority or inferiority. It related to family structures at the time written

So which bits of the bible were written in the context of life at the time and we can now ignore and which bits are 100% true?

Was Mary being a virgin a context of the time?
Were Jesus miracles a context of the time?
Was God committing genocide a context of the time?
Is saying gays will burn in hell a context of the time?

Do we update the ten commandments based on the context of the time?

Can you please send me a link, because it seems like Christians make it up as they go, depending on who they want to hate, which kids they want to rape or whose bank accounts that they want to drain?

I can't believe the mental gymnastics and ignoring all logic and reason religious people go through, and then hand over their money to these conmen.

 

[mxett]

So, we can toss out that particular verse (and the dozens of others on the matter) because of family structure but it is ok for the crazies in the cult to continue to denounce gays? It seems you are picking and choosing what is acceptable and what is not based on personal bias or what you have been told. Some parts of the doctrine are to be believed and followed, others not. Well explain to me how we are supposed to know which is which. Who makes that decision?

I don't think you are being deliberately obtuse but I do wonder whether you are brainwashed because I am becoming more convinced that you are involved in this cult with every one of your posts.

I'm accepting of gays and gay marriage . I have religious beliefs but I'm also old enough to know I don't have all the answers and shouldn't judge others based on what I think God believes.

Yes there are many parts of the bible which can be interpreted many different ways. Most of these are not fundamental to the central message though

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Not sure mate, I don't have all the answers.

What I can say is that a majority of the Christians I've met have been reasonable people who aren't hateful in the least. They've all engaged with me respectfully, regardless of what I believe.

I'm well aware this is not the experience of everyone, which is a shame.

Pentecostals are not Christians. True Christianity is very much live and let live, being kind, unselfish, charitable and accepting of all.

Pentecostals are the opposite. It's an organisation based on prosperity, casting judgement and only accepting of others who are Pentecostal.

People confuse the two but they are not even remotely similar. The Pentecostals use the Bible as the gateway to con the gullible. They pose as Christians but are wolves in sheep's clothing.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

I'm accepting of gays and gay marriage . I have religious beliefs but I'm also old enough to know I don't have all the answers and shouldn't judge others based on what I think God believes.

Yes there are many parts of the bible which can be interpreted many different ways. Most of these are not fundamental to the central message though

Then I think we are at cross purposes mate.

Christians are great. I mean true Christians, not those in the happy clapper movement.

Pentecostals are not "Christians" no matter how many Bibles they throw around.

 

[GWT6]

Pentecostals are not Christians. True Christianity is very much live and let live, being kind, unselfish, charitable and accepting of all.

Pentecostals are the opposite. It's an organisation based on prosperity, casting judgement and only accepting of others who are Pentecostal.

People confuse the two but they are not even remotely similar. The Pentecostals use the Bible as the gateway to con the gullible. They pose as Christians but are wolves in sheep's clothing.

Can you point to one Christian organisaion where the senior members are actually kind and unselfish, and not just in it for the money? I was raised Catholic and they are one of the worst.

 

[mxett]

Then I think we are at cross purposes mate.

Christians are great. I mean true Christians, not those in the happy clapper movement.

Pentecostals are not "Christians" no matter how many Bibles they throw around.

These are more generalisations. There are all types in all walks of life, including churches

 

[Souup]

Pentecostals are not Christians. True Christianity is very much live and let live, being kind, unselfish, charitable and accepting of all.

Pentecostals are the opposite. It's an organisation based on prosperity, casting judgement and only accepting of others who are Pentecostal.

People confuse the two but they are not even remotely similar. The Pentecostals use the Bible as the gateway to con the gullible. They pose as Christians but are wolves in sheep's clothing.

You might be right, but I'm not sure why your focus is on pentecostals?

 

[mxett]

Can you point to one Christian organisaion where the senior members are actually kind and unselfish, and not just in it for the money? I was raised Catholic and they are one of the worst.

You really think all or even most church leaders go into the role for the money?

 

[00Stinger]

Both are bad. One has no control over the organisation. The other is at the top of it.

Do you understand?

I understand fine, thanks for your condescending response

Now an AFL club isn't really like most other organizations is it?

I mean tbf most people wouldn't know who the **** the CEO of Brisbane is, but they would know who Lachy Neale is. I would argue that if they both had homophobic views, in this case the players would be just as detrimental to how the organization is perceived.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Can you point to one Christian organisaion where the senior members are actually kind and unselfish, and not just in it for the money? I was raised Catholic and they are one of the worst.

Not really mate, no.

I wish I could.

 

[GWT6]

I'm not arguing about him or his qualification specifically. This is more about whether someone who follows a religion or is a leader is disqualified from being a business leader based on those beliefs

It's very simple. Take religion out of this and use another example.

You have the Chairman of a mining company, who runs the recruitment process for a superannuation fund that opposes mining and does not invest in it. After a sham process, he appoints himself as the CEO.
He is then asked to choose between his job as Chair of the mining company and CEO of the anti-mining super fund. He chooses to quit the super fund and stick with the mining job. He then claims he is being persecuted.

Religion does not give you a free pass to bypass rules and be a shit person. You happy clappers and the idiots sucked in by the IPA have tried to make this something it is not. He is trying to head up two organisation with vastly different values and claiming persecution when called out. He has a long history of being a crook, and if it wasn't for his religion nobody would be defending his position.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

You might be right, but I'm not sure why your focus is on pentecostals?

Andrew Thorburn is Pentecostal.

 

[gouki88]

You might be right, but I'm not sure why your focus is on pentecostals?

I think he was brought up by them or has experience with them personally? They're also ****s

 

[Souup]

Andrew Thorburn is Pentecostal.

He is chair of the board for an Anglican church?

There's nothing I've come across suggesting he's pentecostal

 

[FRUMPY]

I understand fine, thanks for your condescending response

Now an AFL club isn't really like most other organizations is it?

I mean tbf most people wouldn't know who the * the CEO of Brisbane is, but they would know who Lachy Neale is. I would argue that if they both had homophobic views, in this case the players would be just as detrimental to how the organization is perceived.

Players are apparently role models......but apparently there are times it doesnt matter (like a muslim AFLW player refusing to play for homophobic reasons)

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

These are more generalisations. There are all types in all walks of life, including churches

No they are not. And now I think you are being obtuse.

I have outlined my reasons why in a number of posts above. My extensive experience with this cult, both as a younger person and now as someone a little older who has spent years trying to piece together broken relationships in my family, and the families of others tells me for a stone, cold fact that I know a lot more than you about their belief system.

Now, you are either involved and brainwashed. Or looking in from the outside as an interested but ignorant observer. Either way I am no longer interested in having this discussion with you as you are completely out of your depth.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

He is chair of the board for an Anglican church?

There's nothing I've come across suggesting he's pentecostal

From their website.

We would be considered non-denominational, evangelical, Reformed, and historically orthodox in our beliefs, holding to both the Apostle's and Nicene Creeds. We hold to the 5 Solas of the Reformation and are part of the Acts 29 church-planting network.

It's a subset of the Pentecostal movement hiding behind some imaginative word salad. Clues are in the words "evangelical" and "historically orthodox."

This is worth a read also:

Andrew Thorburn, Matthew Guy and the politics of prosperity and hate

Andrew Thorburn's exit as CEO of Essendon Football Club has nothing to do with religious discrimination and everything to do with out-of-step bigotry.

independentaustralia.net