Annual Reports: Every Club's Profit/Loss Margin for 2012

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The_Wookie said:
In 1990, The SANFL clubs unanimously voted against joining the VFL, flatly refused to pay a license fee and demanded the national league have no more than 14 teams. Eventually, they did join (thanks to Port), had to pay 4 millon for the license fee (Port had negotiated it down to 1.5 million), and the league kept expanding. lol.
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I am skeptical of that $1.5mil figure for Port. I assume you got that from Bernard Whimpress' article
​

I have never been able to confirm that Port had negotiated the licence fee down to only $1.5mil.

Wookie am I right in saying you linked that article in an SA - WA thread recently? If so, can you link that thread? Thanks in advance.
 
RussellEbertHandball said:
I am skeptical of that $1.5mil figure for Port. I assume you got that from Bernard Whimpress' article
​

I have never been able to confirm that Port had negotiated the licence fee down to only $1.5mil.

Wookie am I right in saying you linked that article in an SA - WA thread recently? If so, can you link that thread? Thanks in advance.
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yeah that sounds right Russ, if nothing else what is definitely known is that the terms of Ports deal with the AFL were far better than the SANFL had been able to get.

its contained in both of the following on my blog - im looking for the bigfooty threads:
It may have made an appearnce in the WAFL/SANFL and AFL license discussion threads
 

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  • 1990- May – SANFL clubs unanimously vote against joining the VFL before 1993, further the SANFL states that it will not pay a licence fee and no more than 14 teams should be in the league.
  • 1990- Port signs a heads of agreement anyway to join in 1991. The terms offered to Port were far more favourable than those offered to the SANFL previously. (its understood that the licence fee for Port would have been just 1 million
  • 1990- Port Adelaide plays Geelong in a trial match
  • 1990- Sep – The SANFL formally applies to join the AFL under the same terms offered to Port Adelaide.
  • 1990- OCt – Adelaide Football Club sub licence is formally signed and Adelaide enters the AFL.
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A significant back pedal.

They went from dictating terms to getting with the program in 4-5 months.
 
Hard_to_Beat said:
....was factually distorted, romanticized rubbish that has been disassembled previously.
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What was wrong about it - factually - not just in your opinion.
 
Port Adelaides report came out, nothing we didnt really already know and a lot of stuff just not specified.

As I did last year, Ill be tallying them up as I go along. Anyone who wants to pass along Adelaide, Sydney or WA club reports is more than welcome.

Membership:
  • Hawthorn - 60,841 (8,731 Tasmania)
  • Richmond - 53,072
  • Essendon - 47,708
  • Carlton - 45,800
  • Geelong - 40,200
  • Melbourne - 35,000
  • Western Bulldogs - "more than 30,000"
Revenue:
  • Collingwood - $69,600,000*
  • Essendon - $65,431,425
  • Hawthorn - $57,277,620
  • Geelong - $48,957,150
  • Carlton - $46,637,015 (up $6 million on 2011)
  • Brisbane - $43,859,151
  • Melbourne - $39,517,200
  • Richmond - $37,640,767
  • Port Adelaide - $36,649,694
  • Western Bulldogs - $32,777,251
  • St Kilda - $30,846,816
Sponsorship, Marketing
  • Richmond - $19,323,900
  • Essendon - $15,920,153
  • Geelong - $15,696,889
  • Hawthorn - $15,083,689
  • Carlton - $12,524,669
  • Brisbane - $11,700,040
  • Melbourne - $8,219,263
  • St Kilda - $6,714,163
  • Port Adelaide - Not specified
Membership, reserved seating
  • Essendon - $9,367,066
  • Hawthorn - $9,028,307
  • Carlton - $8,953,054
  • St Kilda - $7,353,883
  • Melbourne - $5,619,605
  • Richmond - $5,050,000 (membership only)
  • Western Bulldogs - $5,027,548 (membership only)
  • Port Adelaide - Not specified
Gate reciepts
  • Melbourne - $4,305,292
  • Hawthorn - $4,018,101 ("matchday income")
  • Carlton - $3,426,953
  • Western Bulldogs - $1,374,525 ("match returns and gate receipts")
  • Essendon - $726,504 (This is not a misprint)
  • Richmond - Not specified
  • St Kilda - included in AFL revenue
  • Port Adelaide - Not specified
  • Geelong includes Gate reciepts with membership: $11,536,630
  • Brisbane includes Gate recipets with membership: $6,127,764
Total Profit/Loss:
  • Essendon - $12,345,536
  • Collingwood - $7,835,000*
  • Richmond - $3,017,742
  • Hawthorn - $1,288,810
  • Melbourne - $19,485
  • Western Bulldogs - (136,679)
  • St Kilda - ($436,818)
  • Carlton - ($639,799)
  • Geelong - ($996,000)
  • Brisbane - ($2,200,013)
  • Port Adelaide - ($2,117,071)
Operating Profit/Loss
  • Collingwood - $4,860,000*
  • Richmond - $3,017,742
  • North Melbourne - $1,193,080*
  • Hawthorn - $1,288,810
  • St Kilda - $631,135
  • Essendon - $401,429
  • Geelong - $322,000
  • Western Bulldogs - ($136,679)
  • Carlton - ($683,799)
  • Brisbane - ($2,513,262)
  • Port Adelaide - ($4,120,000)
Merchandise Income:
  • Essendon - $3,226,302
  • Hawthorn - $2,700,000
  • Geelong - $2,699,798
  • Carlton - $1,902,671
  • Western Bulldogs - $1,268,765 (labelled "consumer products")
  • St Kilda - $1,121,857
  • Brisbane - $1,004,273
  • Melbourne - $634,384
  • Richmond - not specified
  • Port Adelaide - Not specified
Football Department Spend
  • Collingwood - $21,167,000*
  • Carlton - $20,349,646
  • Essendon - $19,200,704
  • Geelong - $19,200,072
  • Melbourne - $17,983,567
  • St Kilda - $17,962,408
  • Port Adelaide - $17,430,245
  • Brisbane - $17,231,496
  • Western Bulldogs - $15,748,928
  • Richmond - $3,915,909 (specifically cited)
  • Hawthorn - $2,378,471 (Specifically cited)
Debt Repaid -
  • Richmond - $1,500,000
  • North Melbourne - $1,000,000*
  • Carlton - $750,000
  • Western Bulldogs - $594,000*
Grants (non AFL)
  • Essendon - $10,100,000 (ASF, Federal Gov)
  • Carlton - $321,220 (ASF)
  • Western Bulldogs - $755,413
  • Port Adelaide - $2,000,000 (SANFL)
Net Assets
  • Essendon - $35,059,757
  • Hawthorn - $26,364,619
  • Western Bulldogs - $23,227,514
  • Richmond - $19,065,807
  • Collingwood - $18,690,000*
  • Carlton - $12,709,584
  • Geelong - $9,957,144
  • Port Adelaide - $6,721,225
  • Melbourne - $6,375,056
  • St Kilda - $5,633,566
  • Brisbane - (3,131,072)
Reference:
Additional References - * information will be contained here.
Footnote:
* Club media release, not annual report.
 
Hard_to_Beat said:
Use the search engine.
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So SFA, and not that important that you want to repeat it.

What did Billy Mitchell or Richard Collless say that wasn't accurate.
 
Hard_to_Beat said:
Interesting to note that the rate of Melbournians attending per head of population in 1980 is very similar to the rate of Melbournians attending per head of population in 2011.

The game is as strong inside the microcosm of Melbourne as it has always been.
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This is incorrect.

In 1980, there were six VFL games which all started at the same time, 2pm every Saturday. People could not attend two or more games in one round, as many people do nowadays. I have no real way knowing exactly how many, but I reckon it's more than you think. In a crowd of 40,000, I would say at least 5,000 of them would've seen another game that weekend. The MCC and AFL members' reserves are full of footy nerds who go to 2 or 3 games every weekend.

In 1980, four of the six VFL games were played at tiny suburban grounds. An attendance greater than 25,000 meant the ground was packed. These grounds were much harder to get to than catching a single train to Richmond or Southern Cross. Going to the footy was less of a family-oriented weekend ritual and was more geared towards groups of men who stood on the gravel terraces with their mates, drinking beer and smoking ciggies.

Many fans were turned off from going to these grounds. eg. If your team was drawn to play Collingwood away at Victoria Park, then forget about it. Virtually no opposition fans bothered turning up there and putting themselves through that feral experience. MCG and VFL Park were good. Princes Park was okay, the Junction Oval in St Kilda was alright. As for the rest... Pfft. Most of the away games were generally for the hardcore tragic fans.

Ground rationalisation eliminated the need for people to catch trains to these quaint suburban hell-holes. If all games were played at luxurious undercover all-seater stadiums like the MCG, then the average attendance of each game would've been a lot higher than 25,000

Most games are now played at night. This has enabled many more people to attend games who otherwise would be at work, or playing footy themselves, watching their kids play, mowing the lawn, cleaning the gutters, etc, etc.

Football is nowhere near as strong here in Melbourne as it once was. The AFL has simply become more adept at catering to their customer base. They provide more product at bigger, better stadiums at staggered times that enable more people to attend and spend more of their money.

I don't believe "football" is stronger simply because the AFL have saturated the market. In 1980, people didn't have to be a member or attend every game or watch games live on TV in order to follow the game. The following was always massive. It's hard to measure abstract thing like collective consciousness, but footy was pretty much the only thing happening in this town. The majority of kids at school used to live and breathe football. Not any more.

The AFL bosses are very good at producing facts and figures which show how much the game has grown. It's all bullshit. They've killed country footy. It's nowhere near as big as it once was and many teams have either merged or folded. They've also killed the WAFL and SANFL and incorporated these interstate crowds into their new attendance figures.

AFL footy has a larger base of junkies, but a smaller hold on the psyche of the masses.
 
Hard_to_Beat said:
No it's correct.

Population/attendances.

100% correct.
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No, you're taking a simplistic approach to the raw data without weighing up any of the mitigating factors.

Irrespective of population and attendances, in my opinion it is simply untrue to say "the game is as strong inside the microcosm of Melbourne as it has always been".

You can say that profits have increased for the business known as the AFL, but this is different to "the game" or footy in the overall scheme of things
 

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Chewy said:
No, you're taking a simplistic approach to the raw data without weighing up any of the mitigating factors.

Irrespective of population and attendances, in my opinion it is simply untrue to say "the game is as strong inside the microcosm of Melbourne as it has always been".

You can say that profits have increased for the business known as the AFL, but this is different to "the game" or footy in the overall scheme of things
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I made a correct statement.

If everyone posted to placate the anal retentive element around here then the place would become unmanageable.
 
Hard_to_Beat said:
I made a correct statement.

If everyone posted to placate the anal retentive element around here then the place would become unmanageable.
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No, your statement was patently false.

140,000 different people turning up at 2pm on a Saturday to 6 different suburban sardine cans cannot be directly compared to a gate attendance figure of 200,000 for Friday night, Saturday arvo, Saturday night, Sunday arvo and Sunday evening at 2 city stadiums that seat 100,000 and 50,000.
 
Chewy said:
No, your statement was patently false.
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My very simple brief concise comment was 100% correct. Bad luck if you have problems with that.

Chewy said:
140,000 different people turning up at 2pm on a Saturday to 6 different suburban sardine cans cannot be directly compared to a gate attendance figure of 200,000 for Friday night, Saturday arvo, Saturday night, Sunday arvo and Sunday evening at 2 city stadiums that seat 100,000 and 50,000.
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People who want to go to the footy, go to the footy. It's that simple.

An argument can be put forward about ground sizes and scheduling AND the option of choice to watch multiple games in the modern era.

However, this had nothing to do with my simple little 1000% correct observation.
 
The_Wookie Hawthorn may call their gate receipts line item "match day income" because it would include other sources of income from their games at Aurora including pourage rights and advertising signage. I'm under the impression Geelong have similar income streams for Skilled Stadium home games.
 
Chewy said:
No, your statement was patently false.

140,000 different people turning up at 2pm on a Saturday to 6 different suburban sardine cans cannot be directly compared to a gate attendance figure of 200,000 for Friday night, Saturday arvo, Saturday night, Sunday arvo and Sunday evening at 2 city stadiums that seat 100,000 and 50,000.
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That is true, but how do you count the hundreds of thousands more watching on TV than they did in the 80's? Every game is now live. You're just measuring it by 'collective consciousness', which is clearly just a subjective thing that would vary from person to person.

On pretty much any objective measure, footy's bigger than it's ever been.
 
Messenger said:
The_Wookie Hawthorn may call their gate receipts line item "match day income" because it would include other sources of income from their games at Aurora including pourage rights and advertising signage. I'm under the impression Geelong have similar income streams for Skilled Stadium home games.
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Its a problem Ive complained about for years. Theres no standard reporting and this is the best I can do without putting a page load of caveats after it.
 
In any case, your wish is my command - as listed in the annual reports.

AFL Income - Distributions (includes 2012 base grant of $6.682 million to all clubs)
Note: this may include prize money, ASD and future fund grants.
  • Melbourne - $10,796,875
  • Brisbane - $10,400,161
  • Western Bulldogs - $10,326,872
  • Hawthorn - $9,138,376
  • Carlton - $9,056,876
  • Port Adelaide - $7,996,876
  • Essendon - $7,956,876
  • Geelong - $7,606,364
Note:
  • Richmond - $14,046,030 ("Football income")
  • St Kilda - $13,115,339 (specifically notes that it includes Gate reciepts)
 
The_Wookie said:
In any case, your wish is my command - as listed in the annual reports.

AFL Income - Distributions (includes 2012 base grant of $6.682 million to all clubs)
Note: this may include prize money, ASD and future fund grants.
  • Melbourne - $10,796,875
  • Brisbane - $10,400,161
  • Western Bulldogs - $10,326,872
  • Hawthorn - $9,138,376
  • Carlton - $9,056,876
  • Port Adelaide - $7,996,876
  • Essendon - $7,956,876
  • Geelong - $7,606,364
Note:

  • Richmond - $14,046,030 ("Football income")
  • St Kilda - $13,115,339 (specifically notes that it includes Gate reciepts)
Click to expand...

Where do see the TV income highlighted in the Pies Annual Report being reported in other clubs Wookie - I couldnt find it in Ports figures.
 
Kwality said:
Where do see the TV income highlighted in the Pies Annual Report being reported in other clubs Wookie - I couldnt find it in Ports figures.
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RussellEbertHandball is better equipped to handle that than I am. There was some media over here that indicated that Port dont consider parts of the AFL distribution a grant and report is as regular income or something to that end.

If you take out the 6.682 million from ports 7.99 million, and remove the 40k prize money as well it leaves 1.2 million. Port in this article say their AFL extra funding was 1.6 million (all clubs were given an extra 500k on last years base grant unless ive screwed that up *sigh*)
 

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Annual Reports: Every Club's Profit/Loss Margin for 2012

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