Annual Reports: Every Club's Profit/Loss Margin for 2012

[telsor]

As you say Telsor most, e.g indigenous players won 4 x Sandovers in the 50s ... Richmond were BIG BIG in the lesser comp so everyone understands you yearn for a lower level, given you absolute failure at the national level.

Ahh, the old, "I don't have a counter argument, so I'll just resort to abuse".

That's Kwality for you.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Mate, I'm a Subi supporter (1986 WAFL premiers), what is your point, not enough recruits for the Pies out of WA ... ? You have no idea how hard it was to embrace the national comp, but WA footy had no financial alternative ... Just as Luc Longley in the 90s was embracing basketball at the highest level & Andrew Gaze was kicking arse in Aus, the national level brought most of the best players into one comp - some of the best in 1990, ALL of the best in 1992 Obesity!!!

You really are a douche, you keep running around from thread to thread like a headless chicken exposing that MASSIVE WA chip on your shoulder complaining about Vic clubs. Without realising that your club was given the biggest leg up in the history of this game.

 

[Kwality]

You really are a douche, you keep running around from thread to thread like a headless chicken exposing that MASSIVE WA chip on your shoulder complaining about Vic clubs. Without realising that your club was given the biggest leg up in the history of this game.

Criticism of things Victorian are a clarion call for you to extract the digit & select think Obesity, & that you chose to characterise my view as you do is sure to be applauded by the peanut gallery. It is your view though, so good.

WE did give up our comp because it was unsustainable & adopted a template for the next century, rejecting a failed model from the early 1900s. Was the VFL business model sustainable past the $millions distributed to the Vic clubs by WA & Q footy? No need to answer that if it troubles you.

As a footy state WA got it wrong initially (private ownership) but acted quickly to get things right. One team moving to two, owned by the WAFC, no pokies, is looking good but we face a challenge in the new stadium,until then we'll keep funding WA footy, not Melbourne clubs, perhaps that is a gig for Obesity.

I understand fans of Melbourne clubs envious of the support & finances of WA clubs, the WA footy template, but the ball is in your court.

I want to see an elite competition not the 2nd rate mismatches seen so often in 2012.

 

[Kwality]

Ahh, the old, "I don't have a counter argument, so I'll just resort to abuse".

That's Kwality for you.

Reality is what it is !!

WA footy joined the national comp & performed.

Richmond have not fired a shot, lots of coaches ... must be galling to be unable to grab a 16yo Neil Balme out of Subi, having to draft kids must be rough.

 

[theflea]

Mate, I'm a Subi supporter (1986 WAFL premiers), what is your point, not enough recruits for the Pies out of WA ... ? You have no idea how hard it was to embrace the national comp, but WA footy had no financial alternative ... Just as Luc Longley in the 90s was embracing basketball at the highest level & Andrew Gaze was kicking arse in Aus, the national level brought most of the best players into one comp - some of the best in 1990, ALL of the best in 1992 Obesity!!!

so are you saying circumstance played a big role? sure probably but you then cant complain about the circumstance of the then vfl turning into the afl and that meant inclusion of all vic clubs(your want,i believe, to reduce vic club numbers). we have what we have and all of us should build a bridge and get over it.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Criticism of things Victorian are a clarion call for you to extract the digit & select think Obesity, & that you chose to characterise my view as you do is sure to be applauded by the peanut gallery. It is your view though, so good.

WE did give up our comp because it was unsustainable & adopted a template for the next century, rejecting a failed model from the early 1900s. Was the VFL business model sustainable past the $millions distributed to the Vic clubs by WA & Q footy? No need to answer that if it troubles you.

As a footy state WA got it wrong initially (private ownership) but acted quickly to get things right. One team moving to two, owned by the WAFC, no pokies, is looking good but we face a challenge in the new stadium,until then we'll keep funding WA footy, not Melbourne clubs, perhaps that is a gig for Obesity.

I understand fans of Melbourne clubs envious of the support & finances of WA clubs, the WA footy template, but the ball is in your court.

I want to see an elite competition not the 2nd rate mismatches seen so often in 2012.

Hey, it takes time, the percentage of Vic clubs in the comp now is reduced while we cover other areas.
Notably second teams in most states. It's a slow process. We need the teams we have now to drive the TV rights.

That's where we're at.

Your still a w***er with a massive chip on your shoulder.

Rage, rage against the machine.......the machine that laid you the golden egg.

 

[telsor]

Reality is what it is !!

WA footy joined the national comp & performed.

Richmond have not fired a shot, lots of coaches ... must be galling to be unable to grab a 16yo Neil Balme out of Subi, having to draft kids must be rough.

More abuse, and yet you remain unable to respond to my original point.

Says a lot about the strength of your 'argument'.

 

[Kwality]

Most of the best players were already in the one comp.

Is this the point you want addressed telsor: refer the role of indigenous footballers in the VFL, compare it with the AFL.
Are you suggesting these guys didnt play footy back then?
Think Stephen Michael in the 80s.

 

[Helix]

Can be a bit concerning that Brisbane can blow 2.5 Mil in a 1 town team, but to be honest the disappointing home crowds (coupled with the rise of the Reds) would at least amount for 1 Million. As for Carlton, how many coaches did they have to pay out? The answer to that question would explain most of the shortfall (they did say that they were 9% down on game day revenue this year).

Brisbane isn't really a one club town. With such strong interest in Rugby League, Rugby Union, The Suns, and Soccer, the Lions have more to compete with than perhaps some realise. AFL support is still fickle up here, winners are grinners, but ground has certainly been made, slowly but surely.

 

[PAdman]

CNB1990

why haven't you updated the op yet? jesus christ, it's amateur hour here.

 

[telsor]

Is this the point you want addressed telsor: refer the role of indigenous footballers in the VFL, compare it with the AFL.
Are you suggesting these guys didnt play footy back then?
Think Stephen Michael in the 80s.

Are you suggesting the only talented players aboriginal?

My original point stands...The majority of the best players, including a number of aboriginals, played in the VFL.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Reality is what it is !!

WA footy joined the national comp & performed.

A franchise with a hand picked premiership list was eased in to the VFL so that it wouldn't die in the crib. You were set up to be fail-proof from the outset.

This is the reality that you conveniently overlook.

If West Coast had entered the VFL under the same conditions as Richmond, Footscray, Hawthorn and North, then the club would have been dead and buried inside 5 years.

 

[Kwality]

Are you suggesting the only talented players aboriginal?

My original point stands...The majority of the best players, including a number of aboriginals, played in the VFL.

Ah, I'm happy to admit the VFL was the #1 comp of the state league era. Aboriginal footballers were rare in Victoria, generally West Aussies playing for a couple of years then going home.

Surely you arent trying to compare it with the AFL where ALL the best players play. I know many Victorians consider their state league is the national comp, well if that makes you feel better about yourself, carry on.
I can tell you Subi gave the Hawks a run for their money in the mid 80s.

Consider Maurice Rioli telsor - his career says much about that era.

Back to the money, i'm happy for the Eagles to be funding WA footy, not happy for them to be subsidising Melbourne clubs beyond the FIXture benefit we receive every 2nd year thru an extra derby.

 

[telsor]

Ah, I'm happy to admit the VFL was the #1 comp of the state league era. Aboriginal footballers were rare in Victoria, generally West Aussies playing for a couple of years then going home.

Surely you arent trying to compare it with the AFL where ALL the best players play. I know many Victorians consider their state league is the national comp, well if that makes you feel better about yourself, carry on.
I can tell you Subi gave the Hawks a run for their money in the mid 80s.

Consider Maurice Rioli telsor - his career says much about that era.

Back to the money, i'm happy for the Eagles to be funding WA footy, not happy for them to be subsidising Melbourne clubs beyond the FIXture benefit we receive every 2nd year thru an extra derby.

Of course there weren't as many aboriginal players in the VFL...There are fewer aboriginals in Victoria and the vast bulk of players were locally recruited. ( it was also easier for them to move from NT to WA, and to a lesser degree SA ).

The VFL had ~60-70% of the national talent spread across 12 teams. The AFL has about 90% spread across 18..the standard has improved due to improved professionalism and training, but on talent, pre team, the VFL was roughly the same level as the AFL.

As for funding...My theory for a while has been that all teams play each other once and collect the $, money from all 'double up' games (inc from memberships) should be pooled and distributed mostly evenly (some balancing for teams that lose a home match).

 

[Kwality]

Of course there weren't as many aboriginal players in the VFL...There are fewer aboriginals in Victoria and the vast bulk of players were locally recruited. ( it was also easier for them to move from NT to WA, and to a lesser degree SA ).

The VFL had ~60-70% of the national talent spread across 12 teams. The AFL has about 90% spread across 18..the standard has improved due to improved professionalism and training, but on talent, pre team, the VFL was roughly the same level as the AFL.

As for funding...My theory for a while has been that all teams play each other once and collect the $, money from all 'double up' games (inc from memberships) should be pooled and distributed mostly evenly (some balancing for teams that lose a home match).

I know how Victorians need this to be true, so go for it, but dont kid yourself its widely accepted beyond Victoria.

As for your funding theory, I'd like to see it given a go, with teams that benefit from FIXturing, transparently returning benefits to those who miss out.

 

[The_Wookie]

CNB1990

why haven't you updated the op yet? jesus christ, it's amateur hour here.

I may be able to help here.


Membership:

• Hawthorn - 60,841 (8,731 Tasmania)
• Richmond - 53,072
• Essendon - 47,708
• Carlton - 45,800
• Geelong - 40,200
• Melbourne - 35,000
• Western Bulldogs - "more than 30,000"

Revenue:

• Collingwood - $69,600,000*
• Essendon - $65,431,425
• Hawthorn - $57,277,620
• Geelong - $48,957,150
• Carlton - $46,637,015 (up $6 million on 2011)
• Brisbane - $43,859,151
• Melbourne - $39,517,200
• Richmond - $37,640,767
• Port Adelaide - $36,600,000*
• Western Bulldogs - $32,777,251
• St Kilda - $30,846,816

Sponsorship, Marketing

• Richmond - $19,323,900
• Essendon - $15,920,153
• Geelong - $15,696,889
• Hawthorn - $15,083,689
• Carlton - $12,524,669
• Brisbane - $11,700,040
• Melbourne - $8,219,263
• St Kilda - $6,714,163

Membership, reserved seating

• Essendon - $9,367,066
• Hawthorn - $9,028,307
• Carlton - $8,953,054
• St Kilda - $7,353,883
• Melbourne - $5,619,605
• Richmond - $5,050,000 (membership only)
• Western Bulldogs - $5,027,548 (membership only)

Gate reciepts

• Melbourne - $4,305,292
• Hawthorn - $4,018,101 ("matchday income")
• Carlton - $3,426,953
• Western Bulldogs - $1,374,525 ("match returns and gate receipts")
• Essendon - $726,504 (This is not a misprint)
• Richmond - Not specified
• St Kilda - included in AFL revenue
• Geelong includes Gate reciepts with membership: $11,536,630
• Brisbane includes Gate recipets with membership: $6,127,764

Total Profit/Loss:

• Essendon - $12,345,536
• Collingwood - $7,835,000*
• Richmond - $3,017,742
• Hawthorn - $1,288,810
• Melbourne - $19,485
• Western Bulldogs - (136,679)
• St Kilda - ($436,818)
• Carlton - ($639,799)
• Geelong - ($996,000)
• Brisbane - ($2,200,013)
• Port Adelaide - ($2,117,071)*

Operating Profit/Loss

• Collingwood - $4,860,000*
• Richmond - $3,017,742
• North Melbourne - $1,193,080*
• Hawthorn - $1,288,810
• St Kilda - $631,135
• Essendon - $401,429
• Geelong - $322,000
• Western Bulldogs - ($136,679)
• Carlton - ($683,799)
• Brisbane - ($2,513,262)
• Port Adelaide - ($4,120,000)*

Merchandise Income:

• Essendon - $3,226,302
• Hawthorn - $2,700,000
• Geelong - $2,699,798
• Carlton - $1,902,671
• Western Bulldogs - $1,268,765 (labelled "consumer products")
• St Kilda - $1,121,857
• Brisbane - $1,004,273
• Melbourne - $634,384
• Richmond - not specified

Football Department Spend

• Collingwood - $21,167,000*
• Carlton - $20,349,646
• Essendon - $19,200,704
• Geelong - $19,200,072
• Melbourne - $17,983,567
• St Kilda - $17,962,408
• Brisbane - $17,231,496
• Port Adelaide - $16,300,000*
• Western Bulldogs - $15,748,928
• Richmond - $3,915,909 (specifically cited)
• Hawthorn - $2,378,471 (Specifically cited)

Debt Repaid -

• Richmond - $1,500,000
• North Melbourne - $1,000,000*
• Carlton - $750,000
• Western Bulldogs - $594,000*

Grants (non AFL)

• Essendon - $10,100,000 (ASF, Federal Gov)
• Carlton - $321,220 (ASF)
• Western Bulldogs - $755,413
• Port Adelaide - $2,000,000 (SANFL)*

Net Assets

• Essendon - $35,059,757
• Hawthorn - $26,364,619
• Western Bulldogs - $23,227,514
• Richmond - $19,065,807
• Collingwood - $18,690,000*
• Carlton - $12,709,584
• Geelong - $9,957,144
• Melbourne - $6,375,056
• St Kilda - $5,633,566
• Brisbane - (3,131,072)

Reference:

• Brisbane Football Club 2012 Annual Report
• Carlton Football Club 2012 Annual Report
• Essendon Football Club 2012 Annual Report
• Geelong Football Club 2012 Annual Report
• Hawthorn Football Club 2012 Annual Report
• Melbourne Football Club 2012 Annual Report
• Richmond Football Club 2012 Annual Report
• St KIlda Football Club 2012 Annual Report
• Western Bulldogs 2012 Annual Report

Additional References - * information will be contained here.

• $7.8 million Jackpot
• Lions record Massive loss
• Another million for North
• Loss caps dog of a year
• PAFC Financial Result

Footnote:
* Club media release, not annual report.

For comparison the 2011 List is here at my blog

 

[*PAF]

Your post should be used to update the OP.
Easier to find.

 

[PAdman]

thanks wookie, any chance you know when interstate team will announce their resultz?

 

[greennick]

They were gifted their entire existence.

A very successful existence at that.

 

[greennick]

Collingwood profit-7.835million. Turnover 69.6 million do ya want us to build ya a new stadium hahah EFA ******* dickhead west oz **** smoker wawwawwaw typical wingin whineing west coke supporter the world is so unfair hahah ***

No need for that. You give Collingwood supporters a bad name and that is a hard thing to do...

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

A very successful existence at that.

Don't forget to thank those who made that possible.

 

[telsor]

I know how Victorians need this to be true, so go for it, but dont kid yourself its widely accepted beyond Victoria.

As for your funding theory, I'd like to see it given a go, with teams that benefit from FIXturing, transparently returning benefits to those who miss out.

Simple maths..
Vic produces 50% of AFL draftees almost all of whom would have gone to the VFL. The VFL would also have picked up the cream of Tassie, as well as a number of the best players from WA/SA.

So 60-70% of the talent in the VFL across 12 teams, or 5-6% per team.

In the AFL, even if you say all good players make it there (unlikely), 100%/18 = 5.55% per team.

So roughly the same in terms of the distribution of talent.

As I said though, the standard of the game has improved due to professionalism and training, and a lot of that is due to the additional money that comes from the advertising/tv rights going for a higher value due to being a national comp. There is also the benefit of actually having all the best players in one comp...I'm sure there have been a number of times when the best player(s) and even the best team(s) weren't in the 'biggest'/'best' comp.


As for the equilisation...I've said before my ideal would be for teams to pay for the times and TV rights they get...play friday night, you compensate those playing sunday twilight...get FTA TV, you pay up to those on foxtel (all related to markets shown to if it's not on national FTA), and yes, the teams you double up with also matter.

 

[telsor]

No need for that. You give Collingwood supporters a bad name and that is a hard thing to do...

I agree...standards may have slipped, but that's just to far.

and yet hard_to_beat 'liked' it....

 

[greennick]

As for funding...My theory for a while has been that all teams play each other once and collect the $, money from all 'double up' games (inc from memberships) should be pooled and distributed mostly evenly (some balancing for teams that lose a home match).

Great idea. Though, there still needs to be an additional distribution as some teams get boned with Sunday games all the time, while others are always in primetime.

 

[W.C. Fry]

A franchise with a hand picked premiership list was eased in to the VFL so that it wouldn't die in the crib. You were set up to be fail-proof from the outset.

This is the reality that you conveniently overlook.

If West Coast had entered the VFL under the same conditions as Richmond, Footscray, Hawthorn and North, then the club would have been dead and buried inside 5 years.

Here is the reality that you conveniently overlook....

VFL had 2 options. Merge / kill off sides. Or expand nationally.
You can thank the eagles for your side not dying off like Fitzroy.

Watch this FoxFooty doco and learn something instead of spewing crap that you obviously know nothing about.