Anthony Albanese - How long? -3-

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RedStarUncle said:
When it starts mixing opinion into what's being reported as news, or even worse sponsored content, that's a bit of a problem.
Click to expand...

Yes I've come to learn over the years that opinions are pretty meaningless. I mean they tell you something about the person doing the opining, but not a lot about the issue being discussed.

Facts, witnessed reports, and perhaps detailed analysis - you can learn from that.


And I agree the big problem we have now is the lowering of the bar for real info vs bullshit. "My version of the truth", ROgan not questioning fanciful crap of his guests, social media spreading bullshit.

That's the problem, for sure.

I mean at least with bias, you can go in knowing that, but still read the factual, verified stuff and learn from it, factoring in the bias (what have they left out, etc). But now even 'fact checking' is coming under question by the fake news/opinion brigade.
 
nut said:
The Net migration long term trend is down 82,000

Australia’s net migration still 82,000 people short of pre-pandemic levels, study finds | Australian immigration and asylum | The Guardian

Country has shortfall over more than five years of pandemic disruption, according to ANU report, contrary to claims of record-high migration
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com
Click to expand...
Tens of thousands higher than
Albanese promised to cut it in recognition it was impacting on Australia.

Being lower the disastrous forecasts of the Libs is better than the alternative but still a failure and broken promise


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Rob R said:
Tens of thousands higher than
Albanese promised to cut it in recognition it was impacting on Australia.

Being lower the disastrous forecasts of the Libs is better than the alternative but still a failure and broken promise


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Click to expand...

Id agreed if unemployment was sky rocketing … but it’s not. Economically there isn’t 1 thing that immigrants are impacting negatively on…. and please don’t say housing… we actually need more skilled migrants. Businesses had to shut during covid because they couldn’t get workers.

EVERY TIME THE ECONOMY TANKS immigrants and poor people are blamed by the corporate owned media and the conservatives that align with them.

 
nut said:
The Net migration long term trend is down 82,000

Australia’s net migration still 82,000 people short of pre-pandemic levels, study finds | Australian immigration and asylum | The Guardian

Country has shortfall over more than five years of pandemic disruption, according to ANU report, contrary to claims of record-high migration
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com
Click to expand...
Yep. I provided brief commentary on thre downward trend when the employment numbers came out last week. Hence my comment that the Opposition and NewsCorp bringing it up today as if it's a huge revelation (and not discussing the full picture such as what would happen to prices and staffing in service areas like hospitals and aged care if that policy from 2022 was strictly adhered to) is a cheap distraction. Heck I even predicted it:



Screenshot 2024-12-18 at 2.23.01 PM.png


But as we all know, immigration and (in particular) migrants are the root cause of all woes.
 
Saint said:
Even if you broke up the Herald Sun, Tele, Courier Mail etc into different ownership, they would still do the same thing. They're doing it because it makes money. Every now and then a journalist gets all uppity and wants to publish the truth in an article which highlights misdeeds of a sponsor and that gets quashed, but that would happen, billionaire or not.

Or they'd go out of business and be replaced by one who was.
Click to expand...
No, that's only guaranteed if it were sold to owners who were also wealthy private investors. If they became employee owned, then the editorial direction would be at the discretion of an employee vote. That may result in the actions you describe, but the chances of it being so are lower.
 
nut said:
Id agreed if unemployment was sky rocketing … but it’s not. Economically there isn’t 1 thing that immigrants are impacting negatively on…. and please don’t say housing… we actually need more skilled migrants. Businesses had to shut during covid because they couldn’t get workers.

EVERY TIME THE ECONOMY TANKS immigrants and poor people are blamed by the corporate owned media and the conservatives that align with them.

Click to expand...
We need more migrants with the right skills which can be achieved whilst still cutting the overall intake. Lots of unskilled migrants we don't need, and skills that are no longer or never needed but got on the list because some donor lobbied a polly.

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Rob R said:
We need more migrants with the right skills which can be achieved whilst still cutting the overall intake. Lots of unskilled migrants we don't need, and skills that are no longer or never needed but got on the list because some donor lobbied a polly.

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Click to expand...
Everyone complains about "all these Uber drivers". Who do you think are the cooks at all the restaurants when locals don't want to work unsociable hours?

Almost all the immigration is students (uber drivers) and those on the skilled list like cooks.

The biggest growth in the last two years over the 10 year trend is Kiwis leaving their mess.

The LNP let in more permanent visa holders per year than the Albanese Govt is.

www.abs.gov.au

Overseas Migration, 2023-24 financial year

Statistics on Australia's international migration, by state and territory, country of birth, visa, age and sex.
www.abs.gov.au www.abs.gov.au
 
Saint said:
Everyone complains about "all these Uber drivers". Who do you think are the cooks at all the restaurants when locals don't want to work unsociable hours?

Almost all the immigration is students (uber drivers) and those on the skilled list like cooks.

The biggest growth in the last two years over the 10 year trend is Kiwis leaving their mess.

The LNP let in more permanent visa holders per year than the Albanese Govt is.

www.abs.gov.au

Overseas Migration, 2023-24 financial year

Statistics on Australia's international migration, by state and territory, country of birth, visa, age and sex.
www.abs.gov.au www.abs.gov.au
Click to expand...
Note above. I said Libs were worse.

Perhaps Albo shouldn't have promised to cut numbers and failed dismally. Sounds like controlling NZ immigration rather tha opening the floodgates is one step as is not extending student visas (unless we need a critical skill) once they finish their course.

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Worth pointing out Australia doesn't have an "unskilled migrant visa program". We take people in on humanitarian grounds because we are a wealthy country. Not every migrant will have in-demand skills, and this will always be the case.

I'd like it if migration was dropped as a political point scoring exercise.
 
Festerz said:
Yep. I provided brief commentary on thre downward trend when the employment numbers came out last week. Hence my comment that the Opposition and NewsCorp bringing it up today as if it's a huge revelation (and not discussing the full picture such as what would happen to prices and staffing in service areas like hospitals and aged care if that policy from 2022 was strictly adhered to) is a cheap distraction. Heck I even predicted it:



View attachment 2189781


But as we all know, immigration and (in particular) migrants are the root cause of all woes.
Click to expand...

LNP are blocking ALPs student cap bills anyway
 
The Punter said:
They're linked to all the time around these parts.
Click to expand...
Let’s look then shall we. This is by no means exhaustive anyone can chip in here and we can add.

Perhaps you could quote my post and inject L or R for left or right bias.

I’m happy to do most WA - pretty easy - the vast majority is owned by Stokes - ie: the West Australian and the community news and is extremely partisan and right wing. The Sunday times is owned by stokes as well.



National:


Daily
  • The Australian (broadsheet)
  • The Australian Financial Review (no longer published in Western Australia)
  • The Guardian Australia (online only)
  • The New Daily (online only)

Weekly

Bi-weekly

NSW

The Sydney Morning Herald
The Daily Telegraph

Newcastle Weekly


Vic

VicNews


Regional

Qld


Regional



WA

Regional
  • Albany Advertiser R
  • Avon Advocate R
  • Broome Advertiser R
  • The Bunbury Herald
  • Bunbury MaiL R
  • Busselton-Dunsborough Mail R
  • Busselton-Margaret Times R
  • Capes Herald R
  • Coolgardie Miner R
  • Darlington Review R
  • Echo Newspapers R
  • Geraldton Guardian R
  • Golden Age (Coolgardie daily) R
  • Goldfield Courier (Coolgardie) R
  • Goldfields Express (Goldfields region)
  • Great Southern Herald (Katanning) R
  • Harvey Reporter R
  • Kalgoorlie Miner R
  • Kimberley Echo (Kununurra) R
  • Kimberley Times (Derby) R
  • Mandurah Coastal Times
  • Mandurah Mail
  • Manjimup-Bridgetown Times
  • Midwest Times R
  • Mundaring Magazine
  • Murray Mail (Pinjarra)
  • Narrogin Observer
  • North West Telegraph (Port Hedland)
  • Northern Guardian (Carnarvon) R
  • The Northern Times (Carnarvon, W.A.) R
  • Northern Valleys News (Northern Valleys – Bindoon, Bullsbrook, Calingiri, Chittering, Gingin, Mogumber, Muchea, Wannamal)
  • Pilbara Echo (Karratha, Dampier, Port Hedland) R
  • Pilbara News (Karratha) R
  • Pinjarra Murray Times (Pinjarra)
  • Sound Telegraph (Rockingham)
  • South Western Times (Bunbury)
  • Southern Avon Chronicle (Northam, York)
SA


Regional


Tas

Regional

  • The Advocate (Burnie)
  • Circular Head Chronicle (Smithton)
  • The Examiner (Launceston)
  • The Gazette (New Norfolk)
  • Huon Valley News (Franklin)
  • The North Coast Post (Meander Valley)
  • The Independent (Launceston)
  • Kingborough Chronicle (Kingborough)
  • North-Eastern Advertiser (Scottsdale)
  • Tasmanian Country (Hobart)
  • Sorell Times (Sorell)
  • Tasman Gazette (Tasman peninsula)
  • East Coast View (East coast)
  • Hobart Observer (Hobart)
  • Glenorchy Gazette (Glenorchy)
  • Eastern Shore Sun (Eastern shore)

NT


Regional
  • Alice Springs News
  • Arafura Times
  • Centralian Advocate
  • Eylandt Echo
  • Katherine Times
  • Litchfield Times
  • Top End Review
  • Wagaitear

ACT

 
The Punter said:
Worth pointing out Australia doesn't have an "unskilled migrant visa program". We take people in on humanitarian grounds because we are a wealthy country. Not every migrant will have in-demand skills, and this will always be the case.

I'd like it if migration was dropped as a political point scoring exercise.
Click to expand...
23k family, 70k+ working holidays, 50k kiwis, student visas getting extended with no requirement to be a critical skill and that is before tightening up the skilled scheme to focus on actual needs. Government could easily and should cut net migration by at least another 100k and preferably 150k

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peetoo said:
LNP are blocking ALPs student cap bills anyway
Click to expand...
ALP and LNP are both addicted to.high immigration to pretend the economy is not in recession and to make donors happy

ALP are normally more honest about it but Albos actions have shown he now will happily promise to cut immigration towards a more sensible target but won't actually do it.

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Last edited:
The Punter said:
Worth pointing out Australia doesn't have an "unskilled migrant visa program". We take people in on humanitarian grounds because we are a wealthy country. Not every migrant will have in-demand skills, and this will always be the case.

I'd like it if migration was dropped as a political point scoring exercise.
Click to expand...
Never happen ... it's a proven vote winner of which Dutton frequently uses.

Melbournians scared to go out for dinner or the brain fart of roving patrols of Border Force arresting people who they belived had overstayed their visa?

If only rank and file members of the Liberal Party stood up to the Party leaders to implement a change of narrative
 
The Punter said:
Worth pointing out Australia doesn't have an "unskilled migrant visa program". We take people in on humanitarian grounds because we are a wealthy country. Not every migrant will have in-demand skills, and this will always be the case.

I'd like it if migration was dropped as a political point scoring exercise.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately immigration at these levels has an economic impact. It's up for debate how positive or negative it is.

Increases house prices with increased demand
Reduces build costs with additional labour reducing wages (labour costs)
Perpetual growth in the face of lower birth rates.

You cant just not discuss it. But it too often gets out of hand and borderline (overtly, really) racist.
 
kranky al said:
I’m happy to do most WA - pretty easy - the vast majority is owned by Stokes - ie: the West Australian and the community news and is extremely partisan and right wing. The Sunday times is owned by stokes
Click to expand...
Dude, Kerry Stokes' The West, (Australia's worst newspaper for those that don't know) was completely in love with Mark McGowan when he was in office.
 
kranky al said:
Let’s look then shall we. This is by no means exhaustive anyone can chip in here and we can add.

Perhaps you could quote my post and inject L or R for left or right bias.

I’m happy to do most WA - pretty easy - the vast majority is owned by Stokes - ie: the West Australian and the community news and is extremely partisan and right wing. The Sunday times is owned by stokes as well.



National:


Daily
  • The Australian (broadsheet)
  • The Australian Financial Review (no longer published in Western Australia)
  • The Guardian Australia (online only)
  • The New Daily (online only)

Weekly

Bi-weekly

NSW

The Sydney Morning Herald
The Daily Telegraph

Newcastle Weekly


Vic

VicNews


Regional

Qld


Regional



WA

Regional
  • Albany Advertiser R
  • Avon Advocate R
  • Broome Advertiser R
  • The Bunbury Herald
  • Bunbury MaiL R
  • Busselton-Dunsborough Mail R
  • Busselton-Margaret Times R
  • Capes Herald R
  • Coolgardie Miner R
  • Darlington Review R
  • Echo Newspapers R
  • Geraldton Guardian R
  • Golden Age (Coolgardie daily) R
  • Goldfield Courier (Coolgardie) R
  • Goldfields Express (Goldfields region)
  • Great Southern Herald (Katanning) R
  • Harvey Reporter R
  • Kalgoorlie Miner R
  • Kimberley Echo (Kununurra) R
  • Kimberley Times (Derby) R
  • Mandurah Coastal Times
  • Mandurah Mail
  • Manjimup-Bridgetown Times
  • Midwest Times R
  • Mundaring Magazine
  • Murray Mail (Pinjarra)
  • Narrogin Observer
  • North West Telegraph (Port Hedland)
  • Northern Guardian (Carnarvon) R
  • The Northern Times (Carnarvon, W.A.) R
  • Northern Valleys News (Northern Valleys – Bindoon, Bullsbrook, Calingiri, Chittering, Gingin, Mogumber, Muchea, Wannamal)
  • Pilbara Echo (Karratha, Dampier, Port Hedland) R
  • Pilbara News (Karratha) R
  • Pinjarra Murray Times (Pinjarra)
  • Sound Telegraph (Rockingham)
  • South Western Times (Bunbury)
  • Southern Avon Chronicle (Northam, York)
SA


Regional


Tas

Regional

  • The Advocate (Burnie)
  • Circular Head Chronicle (Smithton)
  • The Examiner (Launceston)
  • The Gazette (New Norfolk)
  • Huon Valley News (Franklin)
  • The North Coast Post (Meander Valley)
  • The Independent (Launceston)
  • Kingborough Chronicle (Kingborough)
  • North-Eastern Advertiser (Scottsdale)
  • Tasmanian Country (Hobart)
  • Sorell Times (Sorell)
  • Tasman Gazette (Tasman peninsula)
  • East Coast View (East coast)
  • Hobart Observer (Hobart)
  • Glenorchy Gazette (Glenorchy)
  • Eastern Shore Sun (Eastern shore)

NT


Regional
  • Alice Springs News
  • Arafura Times
  • Centralian Advocate
  • Eylandt Echo
  • Katherine Times
  • Litchfield Times
  • Top End Review
  • Wagaitear

ACT

Click to expand...
Extremely comprehensive
 
Kram said:
Dude, Kerry Stokes' The West, (Australia's worst newspaper for those that don't know) was completely in love with Mark McGowan when he was in office.
Click to expand...
C'mon man, you're not suggesting that makes him left, are you? He supported McGowan because he was keeping the state open and allowing mineral companies to also remain open. Labor here are pretty good on issues like infrastructure but are also completely in the pockets of mining companies as it keeps the coffers filling over. It was purely financial driven. Stokes also knew which way the wind was blowing and that it would be extremely unpopular to oppose McGowan so protected his brand.

He backed Morrison in 2022 (and has backed the Liberals in every Federal election, I believe). He's also backing Basil Zempilas as he aims to get the Liberals back into power at a State level. The organisation is unquestionably right wing and to argue otherwise would not be disingenuous, it would be outright misinformation.
 
Gavin Excell said:
Extremely comprehensive
Click to expand...
A long list but whittle out the publications basically sharing the same content or catering to a niche community and how long would it be I wonder? Some of these publications are the same publication that gets put out under a different masthead btw - Like the Sunday papers of the Murdoch tabloids.

(That may well have been the point of the post, sorry if it is I haven't been following the discussion).

What I would really love to see (and I started a conversation with a lead journo on doing it but never followed through) is a listing of how many trained accredited journalists are employed in the media and by which organisation/outlet. Added to that a mapping of the careers of the top recognised political journos at state level in one period (say 1980-2000) and comparing it with the last 10 years. I reckon the contrast would be extreme.

Take my state SA, for example. The state that was once home to News Corporation Global operations and the Head Office of the ABC. The biggest employer of trained journalists in this state is now the South Australian Government - as spin doctors or publicists for individual Ministers or Government agencies.

My point? The hollowing out of competent critical political journalism worldwide and in Australia is a thing and it ain't just being orchestrated by the conservative press. We all suffer as a result.
 
Last edited:
Kram said:
Dude, Kerry Stokes' The West, (Australia's worst newspaper for those that don't know) was completely in love with Mark McGowan when he was in office.
Click to expand...

Is this the same Kerry Stokes that is bankrolling Ben Roberts Smith and Bruce Lehrmann?
 
Rob R said:
23k family, 70k+ working holidays, 50k kiwis, student visas getting extended with no requirement to be a critical skill and that is before tightening up the skilled scheme to focus on actual needs. Government could easily and should cut net migration by at least another 100k and preferably 150k

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...
You've only listed 143k people there. In any case I can sort of agree on tightening up the skills list, but I feel the focus on absolute numbers first and foremost risks dumbing down the debate. If the skills and student visas are tightened up, the numbers will fall anyway. That should be the priority over reaching what people think the right number is.

I think there are also two halves to the equation on the debate about immigration requiring more houses and infrastructure: we're a rich nation, why do we still have issues building houses and infrastructure? It's not wrong to discuss immigration levels, but I think sometimes it takes all the focus and the other side of it is ignored.
 
Johnny Bananas said:
You've only listed 143k people there. In any case I can sort of agree on tightening up the skills list, but I feel the focus on absolute numbers first and foremost risks dumbing down the debate. If the skills and student visas are tightened up, the numbers will fall anyway. That should be the priority over reaching what people think the right number is.

I think there are also two halves to the equation on the debate about immigration requiring more houses and infrastructure: we're a rich nation, why do we still have issues building houses and infrastructure? It's not wrong to discuss immigration levels, but I think sometimes it takes all the focus and the other side of it is ignored.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure we have enough houses - over 10 million houses, 27 million population.

They just aren't being used effectively.
 
Johnny Bananas said:
You've only listed 143k people there. In any case I can sort of agree on tightening up the skills list, but I feel the focus on absolute numbers first and foremost risks dumbing down the debate. If the skills and student visas are tightened up, the numbers will fall anyway. That should be the priority over reaching what people think the right number is.

I think there are also two halves to the equation on the debate about immigration requiring more houses and infrastructure: we're a rich nation, why do we still have issues building houses and infrastructure? It's not wrong to discuss immigration levels, but I think sometimes it takes all the focus and the other side of it is ignored.
Click to expand...
As always, you make very good points.

I only listed 143k because it is impossible to tell how much the skilled migration streams can be cut without a proper review instead of the current process which is based on political needs.

In an ideal world, we wouldn't have a set number before doing a lot of analysis however set numbers are unfortunately a quick fix when we have infrastructure problems as we can set a target we can support with current infrastructure and then increase it as more infrastructure is finished.

You are 1000% right that we focus on only part of the issue (demand) rather than the supply issues which need fixes like NG reform, planning, CGT reform, action on airbnb/holiday homes etc. Part of it is cause the demand side focuses on doing something that impacts non citizens rather than Australians but also because it is quick - the government can cut demand within months through targeted cuts to immigration, the supply problems will take years (but when implemented would allow for immigration to increase again)

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Anthony Albanese - How long? -3-

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