Anthony Albanese - How long? -3-

[Johnny Bananas]

Well, Musk's view is news because he is CEO. Stating he is CEO and owns a ton of Tesla stock is reporting uncritically.

And I was asking about publishing his opinion without letting on that he stands to personally gain from Tesla stock rising.

"Many other organisations this publication spoke to agreed with the CSIRO's view" - standing reporting in long-time accepted journalistic standards

"LNPs costings and their consultants who provided them are rubbish" - the sort of stuff I'd expect from anonymous polemicists like Ronni Salt.

Not considering the CSIRO and the LNPs costing people to be equally weighted authorities does not equate to what you've written, though. And a journalist can address the LNPs arguments with fact checking like this 9 Fairfax article does:

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/po...n-renewables-is-he-right-20241210-p5kx7f.html

If you want to change this in an enduring way, you need to find a way to make consumers change their behaviour in a way that doesn't make them feel like they are being made to change or being made to eat their vegetables. Easier that this? Complaining on a web forum about the media.

Did I give you the impression I was some sort of government media advisor who actually wants to make the effort to change the media landscape? I have other things I'd rather do with my life than spending my time convincing the Australian consumer to change their behaviour.

We're all here giving our opinions on a Web forum, including yourself, so it's kinda weird to have a go at people for that. Besides, the point I was making wasn't to complain about the media, but saying that Labor and its supporters shouldn't complain about the media if they're not willing to do something about it. Unlike me, Labor MPs can actually propose laws to change the media landscape if they want.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

We were discussing where the value was created vs where the tax was paid.

I’m all for discussing section 815 - 125 when you respond to the first point …

So you're happy to discuss Section 815-125 but don't know that Section 815-125 involves the application of a value chain analysis.

"In particular, it is important to understand how value is generated by the group
as a whole, the interdependencies of the functions performed by the
associated enterprises with the rest of the group, and the contribution that
the associated enterprises make to that value creation."

OECD Transfer Pricing Guidelines for Multinational Enterprises and Tax Administrations

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I have noticed that - while many are genuinely struggling - others are taking the piss and just aren't used to living a bit more frugally. Not being able to go to the bottleo and spend $100 every third day doesn't count as struggling.

And don't get me started on those saying they need a holiday. If you have time off work and can't afford to go away, too bad - stay home and relax.

Even back in boomer days, if you bought your McMansion at one interest rate , and the rates went way up, it was hard.
That's how it is. Every time rates go down, people max out their loan to what they can possibly afford, and hope to hell rates stay low and or they get a pay rise.
There were recessions and lots of businesses closing down.
I think through the 90s there was a bit of wage growth that relieved things a bit.

You could buy a New Ford Escort in 1980 for around $4000. By 1985 a new Laser cost around $13 000.
Interest rates around 19%, yeah , easystreet.
People were doing university degrees ( hex free ) with a hope of getting a job with a comfortable salary at the end. By the time they finished their salary was very ordinary compared to what things cost.

Of course if you had good equity in property before the late 70s, none of that was a huge issue, so long as the interest rates didn't kill you.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Section 815-125 defines arm's length conditions for transfer pricing purposes, specifically Section 815-125(2)(b) which looks at the functions performed, assets used and risks borne by the entities.

Hard to find much risk when they are making items for less than $100 ( or half that ) and selling them for thousands.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

Hard to find much risk when they are making items for less than $100 ( or half that ) and selling them for thousands.

What items are made for less than $100 and sold for thousands?

 

[Festerz]

So you're happy to discuss Section 815-125 but don't know that Section 815-125 involves the application of a value chain analysis.

Newbie joining a footy forum and quoting the Income Tax Assessment Act to demonstrate their accounting prowess.

If that ain't proof that the art of civil social discourse in Australia is now well and truly fecked I don't know what is.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Newbie? Pretty sure the lickspickle guy has been here before.

 

[Gralin]

Newbie? Pretty sure the lickspickle guy has been here before.

Indeed

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Indeed

 

[SaintsSeptember]

What items are made for less than $100 and sold for thousands?

Iphones for starters.

 

[Festerz]

Newbie? Pretty sure the lickspickle guy has been here before.

You're telling me that 12 November join date isn't true?

That people lie? Make up new identities? Just to re-join a footy forum? What fresh Hell is this?

This is someone quoting the Tax Act. If the integrity of business people and accountants is questioned then what is there left for society to cling their hopes on.

All is lost.

 

[Gralin]

You're telling me that 12 November join date isn't true?

That people lie? Make up new identities? Just to re-join a footy forum? What fresh Hell is this?

This is someone quoting the Tax Act. If the integrity of business people and accountants is questioned then what is there left for society to cling their hopes on.

All is lost.

New account

 

[kranky al]

So you're happy to discuss Section 815-125 but don't know that Section 815-125 involves the application of a value chain analysis.

"In particular, it is important to understand how value is generated by the group
as a whole, the interdependencies of the functions performed by the
associated enterprises with the rest of the group, and the contribution that
the associated enterprises make to that value creation."

OECD Transfer Pricing Guidelines for Multinational Enterprises and Tax Administrations

No, what I clearly and completely and UTTERLY unambiguously said… was that I’m happy to discuss that - but first we should finish our previous discussion where you asserted that tax should be paid where the value was created.

I replied that the IP is created in Cupertino in the US and the product itself is manufactured mainly in China but for accuracy I should add that Brazil and India are emerging diversifications where “value” is created.

Apple for tax purposes reside in Ireland.

Now given your confident insistence that the tax take should be in the country where the value is provided, I would like to know what value is provided in Ireland……


Aside from ….obviously …. dodging paying tax in the United States and Australia.


Surely with your incredibly bold assertion, there would also be a concomitant set of facts that you relied on that will show me the error of my ways and the tens of billions of dollars of value created in the country the tax is actually paid in. I await your deflectio…. Errr reponse with bated breath.

 

[kranky al]

Would be a pointless exercise.
There are some nutters on here that think the Guardian is right wing.

who thinks the big G is right wing?

I thought Lenin was in a mausoleum?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

There are some nutters on here that think the Guardian is right wing.

Has The Guardian called for the compulsory collectivisation of all agriculture has it? I must have missed that.

 

[Festerz]

There are some nutters on here that think the Guardian is right wing.

There are some on here that are only capable of seeing things as 'left' or 'right'. Always while claiming themselves to be 'moderate centrists' of course.

Self deluded frauds with zero capacity for critical thinking.

 

[Gavin Excell]

There are some on here that are only capable of seeing things as 'left' or 'right'. Always while claiming themselves to be 'moderate centrists' of course.

Self deluded frauds with zero capacity for critical thinking.

Yes it's also terribly boring

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

this means **** all to regular Joe. All people know is that they have less disposable income.

Nobody looks at the big picture unfortunately, day to day. I don't I pay attention to the data and I look outside that tunnel vision and I'm not exactly rolling in cash. I don't see it as an excuse it's just lazy to not even attempt to look into it. Looking after your family isn't an excuse either I have a family to feed to.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Why?
That makes no sense at all. What would be in it for them if everything was rosy for everyone?

Everyone has biases. That includes media outlets, media owners and media consumers. To deny that is to deny human nature.
The Murdoch media leans right and/or whatever is popular at the time - which makes perfect sense given their primary role is to make money.
The state owned media - BBC, ABC tend to lean left given they are inhabited generally by the inner city, university educated class. Their voting patterns generally go left so their reporting reflects the same.

These aren't state secrets. I'm not sure why people get so upset about it.

The ABC is the only commercial media that leans somewhat left, it used to be more pronounced now it's more centrist in their views thanks to Buttrose. Whereas all the others are right leaning and some far right like Sky News. 7 and 9 are right who take the fair share of viewership, I can't recall a time they were ever centrist or left. You can believe what you want to believe but the reality is Labor is pushing the proverbial uphill to gain traction daily with the masses because of what they have to deal with. You either take them on head on like Andrews did or try and win them over in the belief they will side with you like Albo, its not working and never will.

 

[nut]

So you're happy to discuss Section 815-125 but don't know that Section 815-125 involves the application of a value chain analysis.

"In particular, it is important to understand how value is generated by the group
as a whole, the interdependencies of the functions performed by the
associated enterprises with the rest of the group, and the contribution that
the associated enterprises make to that value creation."

OECD Transfer Pricing Guidelines for Multinational Enterprises and Tax Administrations

The value for Apple is here.. or anywhere they sell their products. They struggle to sell Apple in poor countries…
So they benefit from our society and should contribute here IMO.

 

[MPMonkeys]

The ABC is the only commercial media that leans somewhat left, it used to be more pronounced now it's more centrist in their views thanks to Buttrose. Whereas all the others are right leaning and some far right like Sky News. 7 and 9 are right who take the fair share of viewership, I can't recall a time they were ever centrist or left. You can believe what you want to believe but the reality is Labor is pushing the proverbial uphill to gain traction daily with the masses because of what they have to deal with. You either take them on head on like Andrews did or try and win them over in the belief they will side with you like Albo, its not working and never will.

And this is why its a pointless exercise because people have different definitions of what is left or right.
The term 'far right' being corrupted so freely on here is a typical case in point.

But for the sake of it, two rules I generally use are:

• If expert opinion is typically sourced from the Australia Institute or The Guardian then that media will generally be left focused.
• If expert opinion is typically sourced from the IPA or Sky News contributors then that media will generally be right focused.

 

[The Punter]

You don't think we have a media diversity problem? It's not a new issue

Is Australia’s media market one of the world’s most concentrated?

Was shadow minister for communications Michelle Rowland right when she said Australia’s level of media ownership concentration is one of the highest in the world?

theconversation.com

This is from 8 years ago and at the time over half the print news was owned by Murdoch


in 2011 we were the third most concentrated market behind China and Egypt

Australia's newspaper ownership is among the most concentrated in the world

Australia’s newspaper industry ranked third in 2011, behind state-owned media of China and Egypt

www.theguardian.com

We've not gotten more diverse either

Thank you for quoting two examples of diverse media in Australia in your post.

There is plenty of diversity of reporting and opinion all around. As usual, the issue here tends to be unsatisfactory results.

 

[Gralin]

Thank you for quoting two examples of diverse media in Australia in your post.

There is plenty of diversity of reporting and opinion all around. As usual, the issue here tends to be unsatisfactory results.

3 people owning 50 different companies isn't diversity punter but I think you know that

 

[The Punter]

3 people owning 50 different companies isn't diversity punter but I think you know that

Your dislike for private ownership as an idea is stipulated. It's not hard to read widely or read alternatives to the outlets owned by capitalists. You proved that with your post quoting two of them.

 

[Gough]

3 people owning 50 different companies isn't diversity punter but I think you know that

When they agree with you in thinking that Peter Dutton is a good idea it doesn't matter.