Covid-19 Antivaxxers, extremism and the Coalition

[SaintsSeptember]

I suppose that if one has excess deaths earlier (ie during a pandemic) you would expect the following years to have reduced excess deaths - if the deaths occurred in frail persons who otherwise would have died in the next 2-5 years anyway.

I have not looked at the numbers in detail so do not know whether it follows this pattern. Just a conjecture.

If we kill nearly everyone , i'm sure we'd have less death in the immediate aftermath.

 

[MrKK]

The Spectator, the OECD and the EU comission are not reliable enough for you?

That's where I got my three independent studies on excess mortality from.


Not during the pandemic. After the pandemic.


Your inference being our excess deaths are somehow related to our pandemic response (so either suicides from lockdowns, or vaccination injuries).

Allow me to give you the benefit of the doubt here. You're linking 'excess deaths' with 'Pandemic response'.

Explain why those two things are connected, and how.

That is your inference, not mine. The fact is we have had more than 12 months of 10+% excess deaths with both Covid and non-Covid causes and it's showing no signs of slowing down. So did we save lives or just kick the excess death can down the road for two years? All while pissing a shed load of money up the wall and making life miserable for many of our citizens (Victorians in particular).

Here are things that are known to increase mortality:
Unemployment
Poverty
Lower educational achievement
Domestic violence
Drug abuse
Loneliness

Which of those were exacerbated by lockdowns? Every single one of them.

 

[Brad Goodman]

Does anyone even remember what lockdowns were like? Feels like ancient history.

 

[Roby]

That is your inference, not mine. The fact is we have had more than 12 months of 10+% excess deaths with both Covid and non-Covid causes and it's showing no signs of slowing down. So did we save lives or just kick the excess death can down the road for two years? All while pissing a shed load of money up the wall and making life miserable for many of our citizens (Victorians in particular).

Here are things that are known to increase mortality:
Unemployment
Poverty
Lower educational achievement
Domestic violence
Drug abuse
Loneliness

Which of those were exacerbated by lockdowns? Every single one of them.

I don't think you're considering something else that increases mortality and has for million of years.

 

[Malifice]

Here are things that are known to increase mortality:
Unemployment
Poverty
Lower educational achievement
Domestic violence
Drug abuse
Loneliness

Which of those were exacerbated by lockdowns? Every single one of them.

Lower educational achievement and poverty might cause excess deaths, if institutionalized. There is a corellation between poverty and lower life expectancy.

Where I'm really struggling here is to see how our kids (the ones in school 2 years ago) are contributing to excess deaths in any way whatsoever at present though.

Do you have any evidence that links kids missing some school a few years ago, with excess deaths the year afterwards? Explain to me how it's possible that kids missing even years 11 or 12 in 2022 are contributing to excess deaths now?

Re poverty, in case you forgot we doubled our unemployment benefits during the pandemic. This was one of our responses (in addition to housing moratoriums and Job keeper payments).

Do you have any evidence that 'poverty' increased due to our lockdown measures?

Loneliness doesnt kill anyone. Unless you're talking suicides, in which case those deaths are all accounted for and show no statistically relevant increase. And there has been Dometic Violence deaths are accounted for (they're caught in Homicide numbers), and they also dont show any statistically relevant increase.

Do you have any evidence that Suicides or Homicides have spiked 'because of COVID lockdowns'?

You also left out one important reason for the rise in excess deaths.

COVID:

A number of studies have found people are more likely to have heart problems and strokes in the weeks and months after catching Covid, and some of these may not end up being linked to the virus when the death is registered.

Excess deaths in 2022 among worst in 50 years

Get it yet? We already have a pretty clear and obvious explanation for the excess deaths following on from a global pandemic. The long term effects of the ****ing disease itself.

 

[Malifice]

MrKK

Post me your evidence that shows how any and each of these things are contributing to excess deaths at present in any statistically relevant way:

1. Unemployment
2. Poverty
3. Lower educational achievement
4. Domestic violence
5. Drug abuse
6. Loneliness

I posted links above that clearly provides evidence of how COVID itself is contributing to the rise in numbers (specifically long COVID) by killing people months after infection (heart attacks, strokes and other lethal side effects).

Where is your evidence linking the above with current excess deaths?

 

[Roby]

MrKK

Post me your evidence that shows how any and each of these things are contributing to excess deaths at present in any statistically relevant way:

1. Unemployment
2. Poverty
3. Lower educational achievement
4. Domestic violence
5. Drug abuse
6. Loneliness

I posted links above that clearly provides evidence of how COVID itself is contributing to the rise in numbers (specifically long COVID) by killing people months after infection (heart attacks, strokes and other lethal side effects).

Where is your evidence linking the above with current excess deaths?

If you don't lockdown whats to say unemployment, poverty, education, domestic violence, drug abuse don't get worse?

If people are sick or dying, a lot of small businesses will shut down causing unemployment.

Poverty will increase as the country will reverse it's economy.

Through sheer desperation of these things, violence and drug abuse increase.

Can't see how education improves if children lose their teachers or parents through sickness or death.

If Australia had taken a no lockdown approach like Brazil for example, Brazil had their worst unemployment in 30 years during the pandemic.

 

[Roby]

MrKK you're really just ignoring or forgetting that this a highly contagious and deadly virus. My recommendations as a virologist will ALWAYS be to inact quartining measures to mitigate a pandemic.

 

[Malifice]

MrKK

Have a look at the following study of excess deaths. Note the correlation between 'cumulative all cause excess mortality' in figure A, and 'cumulative COVID-19 hospitalizations' in figure B:





https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(22)00547-3/fulltext


So we know - for a fact - that a significant number of excess deaths are being caused by COVID.

Further studies of excess deaths also reveal:

Of the 225 530 excess deaths, 150 541 (67%) were attributed to COVID-19. Joinpoint analyses revealed an increase in deaths attributed to causes other than COVID-19, with 2 reaching statistical significance. US mortality rates for heart disease increased between weeks ending March 21 and April 11 (APC, 5.1 [95% CI, 0.2-10.2]), driven by the spring surge in COVID-19 cases. Mortality rates for Alzheimer disease/dementia increased twice, between weeks ending March 21 and April 11 (APC, 7.3 [95% CI, 2.9-11.8]) and between weeks ending June 6 and July 25 (APC, 1.5 [95% CI, 0.8-2.3]), the latter coinciding with the summer surge in sunbelt states.

Excess Deaths From COVID-19 and Other Causes, March-July 2020

So most of the excess deaths we're seeing are directly attributable to COVID infection, with the remainder mainly coming from a surge in deaths from both heart disease and dementia.

Which is unsurprising. Viral infection (such as COVID) has long been associated with the subsequent onset of other conditions like encephalitis (inflammation of the brain caused by viral infection) and myocarditis (inflammation of the heart caused by viral infection). When you get sick with a virus, it can lead to encephalitis or myocarditis as a side effect of the primary viral infection.

As to the increase in prevalence of myocaditis following on from COVID infection:

Overall, 20,875,843 patients (mean age 56.1 years, 59.1% male) were included in this analysis. Of them, 1,245,167 experienced (and survived) COVID-19 infection. Over a mean follow-up of 9.5 months, myocarditis occurred to 0.21 (95% CI 0.13-0.42) out of 1000 patients survived to COVID-19 infection compared with 0.09 [95% CI 0.07-0.12) out of 1000 control subjects. Pooled analysis revealed that recovered COVID-19 patients presented an increased risk of incident myocarditis (HR 5.16, 95% CI 3.87-6.89; P < 0.0001; I2 = 7.9%) within 1 year from the index infection. The sensitivity analysis confirmed yielded results.

One-Year Risk of Myocarditis After COVID-19 Infection: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis.

The above study shows that following on from a COVID infection, your odds of developing myocarditis more than double.

The above being true, an increasing number of peer reviewed studies into high numbers of excess deaths are showing that most excess deaths are being caused by either:

1) COVID, or
2) 'Long COVID' namely heart issues or other issues (such as myocarditis, or exacerbating dementia) caused by COVID.

And not due to 'social isolation and poverty'. In fact, there is absolutely no evidence of any surge in poverty, suicide or homicide rates that corelates with increases in countries with increased excess deaths, while there is an increasing body of peer reviewed (and accepted) science that links higher than expected excess deaths with deaths caused by COVID (either the disease itself, or from complications like myocarditis or heightened Alzheimer's/ dementia following on from COVID infection).

Bear in mind:

Covid-19 became Australia’s third leading cause of death in 2022, after ischaemic heart disease and dementia, according to an analysis.

There were 20 200 more deaths in 2022 than would have been expected if the pandemic had not happened, with a total excess mortality of 12% for the year, found a review of excess deaths by Australia’s Actuaries Institute’s covid-19 mortality working group.

Covid-19 was the third leading cause of death in Australia last year

The 3 leading causes of death in Australia (our excess mortality was 12 percent higher) were COVID, heart disease and dementia.

And as we know COVID infection is still killing people, and for those it doesn't kill, its increasing their odds of dying from both dementia and heart disease.

Or TL;DR - COVID is causing the spike in excess deaths, not 'being sad about lockdowns'.

What do you have to say about the above science?

 

[Chief]

We already have a pretty clear and obvious explanation for the excess deaths following on from a global pandemic. The long term effects of the ******* disease itself.

AW! I was gonna say "international bankers"

 

[Malifice]

AW! I was gonna say "international bankers"

Well, they're behind everything obviously.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Well, they're behind everything obviously.

George Typhoid Mary Soros

 

[Malifice]

George Typhoid Mary Soros

Also one of the four gods of Chaos alongside Khorne, Tzeench and Slaanesh Rothschild.

 

[Pie eyed]

That is your inference, not mine. The fact is we have had more than 12 months of 10+% excess deaths with both Covid and non-Covid causes and it's showing no signs of slowing down. So did we save lives or just kick the excess death can down the road for two years? All while pissing a shed load of money up the wall and making life miserable for many of our citizens (Victorians in particular).

Here are things that are known to increase mortality:
Unemployment
Poverty
Lower educational achievement
Domestic violence
Drug abuse
Loneliness

Which of those were exacerbated by lockdowns? Every single one of them.

There should be more lockdowns for cookers.

 

[Malifice]

There should be more lockdowns for cookers.

This is my issue with people that want to focus on 'excess deaths' (which peer reviewed consensus is showing are attributable mainly to COVID and the subsequent effects of COVID infection, namely exacerbating heart disease and dementia).

The cookers want to frame the cause of these deaths as 'suicides from lockdown sadness and vaccine injuries' when there is not only no evidence of this, but overwhelming evidence this cant be the cause (suicides and vaccine injuries are tracked and show no statistically significant change).

Cookers gonna cook though.

 

[Northalives]

Tina Turner passed away the other day and she said just before she died something like if she had her time over, she would have taken the medication prescribed for her for the hypertension (high blood pressure) and high cholesterol she had been diagnosed with instead of turning to some homeopathic, quack doctor in France on the advice of a friend.

Homeopathy is a remnant of the dark ages, just as are antivaxxers and the extremists and the Coalition but unfortunately, because many in todays society have duped themselves into thinking they are "advanced" because of the internet and social media, we, as a society, have become intellectually moribund.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

Is it the same source for those Scandinavian stats? Reads like you've linked one calculation that has Sweden are 3.3% and compared it to other countries sourced from somewhere else. Something about apples and oranges.

Even so, 3.3% during a once-in-a-century pandemic when they had multiple waves of the deadliest strains before any vaccines seems about par to me. And if it's bad, then Australia's comparable results when the vast majority of our infections were weaker strains in a vaccinated population is a ******* disaster.

Before Australia relaxed nearly all restrictions and withdrew significant federal support for mitigation strategies it had the second lowest number of excess deaths per 100,000 people.

In fact we had an inverse excess death rate, so a lower proportion of the population died than would be expected.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

This is my issue with people that want to focus on 'excess deaths' (which peer reviewed consensus is showing are attributable mainly to COVID and the subsequent effects of COVID infection, namely exacerbating heart disease and dementia).

The cookers want to frame the cause of these deaths as 'suicides from lockdown sadness and vaccine injuries' when there is not only no evidence of this, but overwhelming evidence this cant be the cause (suicides and vaccine injuries are tracked and show no statistically significant change).

Cookers gonna cook though.

There is absolutely zero evidence to suggest any of the nonsense the cookers are pushing.

It's been entirely attributable to infectious disease as either a primary or contributing factor, namely COVID but slightly higher than expected flu deaths.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

That is your inference, not mine. The fact is we have had more than 12 months of 10+% excess deaths with both Covid and non-Covid causes and it's showing no signs of slowing down. So did we save lives or just kick the excess death can down the road for two years? All while pissing a shed load of money up the wall and making life miserable for many of our citizens (Victorians in particular).

Here are things that are known to increase mortality:
Unemployment
Poverty
Lower educational achievement
Domestic violence
Drug abuse
Loneliness

Which of those were exacerbated by lockdowns? Every single one of them.

You are incorrect.

COVID has been the primary contributing factor, that's what the numbers say.

 

[Saint]

That is your inference, not mine. The fact is we have had more than 12 months of 10+% excess deaths with both Covid and non-Covid causes and it's showing no signs of slowing down. So did we save lives or just kick the excess death can down the road for two years? All while pissing a shed load of money up the wall and making life miserable for many of our citizens (Victorians in particular).

Here are things that are known to increase mortality:

COVID
Heart disease
Cancer
Dementia and Alzheimers
Traffic Crashes
Stroke
Diabetes
Unemployment

Poverty
Lower educational achievement
Domestic violence
Drug abuse
Loneliness

Which of those were exacerbated by lockdowns? Every single one of them.

I added some things to your list. You know, the actual causes of death to be worried about.

Those other things have influences on causing some of the others.

Even things like COVID leading to increased risk of Alzheimers

COVID-19 increases risk of developing Alzheimer's by 50-80% in older adults

In a recent study published in the Journal of Alzheimer’s Disease, researchers investigated whether severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infections could trigger the development of new-onset Alzheimer’s disease (AD)

www.news-medical.net

 

[Malifice]

Findings In this cohort study evaluating 538 159 deaths in individuals aged 25 years and older in Florida and Ohio between March 2020 and December 2021, excess mortality was significantly higher for Republican voters than Democratic voters after COVID-19 vaccines were available to all adults, but not before.

Excess Death Rates for Republican and Democratic Voters in Florida and Ohio During the COVID-19 Pandemic

in the adjusted analysis; the excess death rate among Republican voters was 43% higher than the excess death rate among Democratic voters.

Looks like the higher than usual excess deaths in the USA are coming mainly from unvaccinated Republicans, who are likely dying from both COVID and long COVID complications (viral myocarditis/ encephalitis and weakened immune systems) at much higher rates than Vaccinated Democrats are.

BuT ThE CovID VaXeeNe is cAUsinG tHe exESs dEaTHs!!1!!

 

[Chief]

BIG PHARMA SHILL!

 

[Saint]

Liberal Party’s father-daughter act feeling the heat from cookers

The civil war raging within the Victorian Liberals is not about to cool following another MP’s controversial event appearance.

www.theage.com.au

I didn't know the Cookers now wear that term as a badge of honour, but good luck to them.

Victorian State MP attends function of another party......says she was just there to support her crazy pentecostal father.......who happens to also be a Liberal Party member and part of the Latrobe State Election Council for the Libs. But they don't want to make a scene about how many cookers are in their party before the Warrandyte by-election.

Be interesting to see if they just expel Daddy Cooker or also State MP cooker too.

 

[Malifice]

Liberal Party’s father-daughter act feeling the heat from cookers

The civil war raging within the Victorian Liberals is not about to cool following another MP’s controversial event appearance.

www.theage.com.au

I didn't know the Cookers now wear that term as a badge of honour, but good luck to them.

Victorian State MP attends function of another party......says she was just there to support her crazy pentecostal father.......who happens to also be a Liberal Party member and part of the Latrobe State Election Council for the Libs. But they don't want to make a scene about how many cookers are in their party before the Warrandyte by-election.

Be interesting to see if they just expel Daddy Cooker or also State MP cooker too.

Can they afford to expel another MP?

 

[Saint]

Can they afford to expel another MP?

They're upper house and they're cookers so it's not like they're about to side with the ALP, nor are they at risk of losing the seat at the next election. The fact these nutters are getting the first position just shows how much they've taken over the branches and party.

They need to expel these MPs to lay down the law. If they keep letting them get away with sneaking nutter-ism into the party, the takeover will accelerate. With Deeming they've drawn a line in the sand, they need to stick to it.