Covid-19 Antivaxxers, extremism and the Coalition

[Mofra]

So much for the #alllivesmatter hashtag then.
#onlyyounglivesmatter trending yet?

 

[Crankyhawk]

So much for the #alllivesmatter hashtag then.
#onlyyounglivesmatter trending yet?

probably talking to libertarians, so its more #onlymylifeandfreedomsmatter

 

[royale with cheese]

The Australian Health Sector Emergency Response Plan for Novel Coronavirus published in February 2020 goes into a little more detail on severity levels than the pandemic plan I mentioned earlier.

Low severity is compared to severe seasonal influenza or the 2009 influenza A(H1N1) pandemic. High severity is compared to 1918 H1N1 ‘Spanish flu’. Perhaps there's a case for Moderate severity.

People in at-risk groups may experience severe illness. As the number of cases grows the number of people presenting for medical care is likely to be higher than for severe seasonal influenza and primary care and hospital services will be under severe pressure, particularly in areas associated with respiratory illness and acute care.​

But somewhere along the line the considered plans were thrown out of the window. Even if the severity was assessed as Spanish flu level the measures went way beyond anything outlined in the plan.

They abandoned all these plans for back of the envelope calculations that didn’t even get near to happening. Remember Neil Ferguson’s terribly inaccurate model?

 

[Malifice]

20 million is an estimate that counts deaths from health services not delivered. Not a true estimate of the number of deaths directly from covid.

How does that make it any less deadly for those people that died?

Like... why the **** does the distinction matter? But for COVID swamping hospitals and denying those people adequate care, they wouldnt have freaking died.

 

[royale with cheese]

How does that make it any less deadly for those people that died?

Like... why the * does the distinction matter? But for COVID swamping hospitals and denying those people adequate care, they wouldnt have freaking died.

It’s impossible to tell whether people would have died because a covid patient was taking a hospital bed, an obese person was, or that lockdowns meant they were less likely to get an early diagnosis for a curable disease. You can’t disentangle that. The only way to measure it is direct deaths.

 

[Roby]

It’s impossible to tell whether people would have died because a covid patient was taking y a hospital bed, an obese person was, or that lockdowns meant they were less likely to get an early diagnosis for a curable disease. You can’t disentangle that. The only way to measure it is direct deaths.

It's really not that difficult to understand. Because of COVID there was an additional 20 million excess deaths. Now we have returned to the norm.

Of course had we done absolutely nothing in terms of quarantining and lockdowns then that number would have easily tripled.

 

[royale with cheese]

It's really not that difficult to understand. Because of COVID there was an additional 20 million excess deaths. Now we have returned to the norm.

Of course had we done absolutely nothing in terms of quarantining and lockdowns then that number would have easily tripled.

How do you know?

 

[royale with cheese]

A. There was a flood
B. I dropped a nuke on the flood
C. Afterwards I counted the number of dead

Those dead were a result of the flood. Had I not dropped a nuclear bomb on the flood, who knows how many would have died.

 

[Frank Bunn]

i think you missed the sark. Of course they should be doing it. But I have very low expectations of what government does
Hence the statement "concentrate on only a few things at a time"

Sark is not always obvious.

I'm still waiting to hear a good reason why a Royal Commission into our Pandemic response has not been announced and funded.

 

[Malifice]

It’s impossible to tell whether people would have died because a covid patient was taking a hospital bed, an obese person was, or that lockdowns meant they were less likely to get an early diagnosis for a curable disease. You can’t disentangle that. The only way to measure it is direct deaths.

Actually, it's possible to get an accurate estimate, that can then be subject to peer review of the methodology used to come to the figure.

I know you dont really understand how 'Science' works, but now you do.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

A. There was a flood
B. I dropped a nuke on the flood
C. Afterwards I counted the number of dead

Those dead were a result of the flood. Had I not dropped a nuclear bomb on the flood, who knows how many would have died.

That is truly idiotic.

A: Good analogy.
B: Totally stupid.
C: Good, but not with the context of B.

Why don't you provide some evidence for what you are claiming instead of just mouthing off.
What dead do you think you are counting?

 

[Malifice]

A. There was a flood
B. I dropped a nuke on the flood
C. Afterwards I counted the number of dead

Those dead were a result of the flood. Had I not dropped a nuclear bomb on the flood, who knows how many would have died.

Youre blaming lockdowns and vaccine policies (the nuke) for the huge numbers of excess deaths, notwithstanding overwhelming scientific consensus that it was unrecorded COVID deaths that did it?

Im this close with you in this incarnation.

 

[MrKK]

Youre blaming lockdowns and vaccine policies (the nuke) for the huge numbers of excess deaths, notwithstanding overwhelming scientific consensus that it was unrecorded COVID deaths that did it?

Im this close with you in this incarnation.

You made up that inference yourself, in order to threaten the poster with your Mod powers. Poor form, but not surprising.

 

[FredLeDeux]

You made up that inference yourself, in order to threaten the poster with your Mod powers. Poor form, but not surprising.

What inference do you think the poster meant to be drawn from his blatantly false analogy?

 

[MrKK]

It's really not that difficult to understand. Because of COVID there was an additional 20 million excess deaths. Now we have returned to the norm.

Of course had we done absolutely nothing in terms of quarantining and lockdowns then that number would have easily tripled.

Other countries may have returned to the norm but Australia hasn't. 12% excess deaths in 2022.

Almost 20,000 more people died last year – the highest excess death rate since WWII

New data published on Monday estimates there was a 12 per cent spike in excess deaths in 2022, with COVID the reason for 10,300 extra deaths and a contributing factor in an additional 2900.

www.smh.com.au

By way of comparison, it's not far off 14% that UK recorded in 2020 with the stronger Covid strains and no vaccines.

Covid: 2020 saw most excess deaths since World War Two

Last year saw 697,000 deaths registered in the UK - 14% above what would be expected.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[MrKK]

What inference do you think the poster meant to be drawn from his blatantly false analogy?

Our pandemic response.

 

[Malifice]

You made up that inference yourself.

No I didnt.

 

[Malifice]

Our pandemic response.

Yeah; our pandemic response (the nuke at point 2) which contributed to the number dead (point 3).

Explain to me your interpretation of that for me.

 

[Roby]

How do you know?

20 years working in virology, including SARS-COVID, so you know just a hunch.

 

[MrKK]

No I didnt.

Really? Where in the post you quoted from royale with cheese were vaccine policies mentioned?

 

[Malifice]

Really? Where in the post you quoted from royale with cheese were vaccine policies mentioned?

What was the 'nuke' of a response he was talking about?

Vaccine/ lockdown policies.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Of course had we done absolutely nothing in terms of quarantining and lockdowns then that number would have easily tripled.

That's supposition.

Australia had a well considered and reviewed Health Management Plan for Pandemic Influenza. It was first developed in 2005 and updated in 2014. The Australian Health Sector Emergency Response Plan for Novel Coronavirus published in February 2020 goes into more detail on severity levels. High severity is compared to 1918 H1N1 ‘Spanish flu’. Covid wasn't anywhere near as bad as Spanish flu but the measures imposed went way beyond anything outlined in the plan.

The plans talk about 'proportionate response'. A response that is appropriate to the level of impact the pandemic is likely to have on the community, and minimising social disruption.

There's nothing in the plans about curfews, 1 hour limits on being outside the house, 5km movement limits, only 4 reasons to leave the home, police checkpoints between metro and regional areas, travel across state borders not allowed, our international border closed, public housing complexes locked up, schools closed, weddings not permitted.

That's why I would like to see a Royal Commission on our response to the pandemic. Why we didn't follow our plans. What impacts did the measures have on our society, not just in terms of Covid but cancer diagnosis, education, mental health, human rights, businesses closing.

 

[Chief]

That's supposition.

Kind of like I suppose the sun will come up tomorrow.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

How do you know?

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

That's supposition.

Australia had a well considered and reviewed Health Management Plan for Pandemic Influenza. It was first developed in 2005 and updated in 2014. The Australian Health Sector Emergency Response Plan for Novel Coronavirus published in February 2020 goes into more detail on severity levels. High severity is compared to 1918 H1N1 ‘Spanish flu’. Covid wasn't anywhere near as bad as Spanish flu but the measures imposed went way beyond anything outlined in the plan.

The plans talk about 'proportionate response'. A response that is appropriate to the level of impact the pandemic is likely to have on the community, and minimising social disruption.

There's nothing in the plans about curfews, 1 hour limits on being outside the house, 5km movement limits, only 4 reasons to leave the home, police checkpoints between metro and regional areas, travel across state borders not allowed, our international border closed, public housing complexes locked up, schools closed, weddings not permitted.

That's why I would like to see a Royal Commission on our response to the pandemic. Why we didn't follow our plans. What impacts did the measures have on our society, not just in terms of Covid but cancer diagnosis, education, mental health, human rights, businesses closing.

Seriously, what was the effect of a Curfew during the lockdown. Wahh wahhh wahh.
Where were you going to go during the Curfew?

( Decisions were made in response to real life situation evaluation. People were having illegal get togethers , maybe in Sweden they didn't have so many dickheads undermining public health. Someone else said we should have been treated like adults, we were, but too many continued acting like moronic children . )

It was a plan, not part of the constitution, you'd be frootloops if you threw royal commission money at it.