Apples' Training Reports

[Apex36]

It’s probably fair to do that because his circumstances are unique with his injuries. I wouldn’t have used the exact same language Apex did, but nor would I have called it a stretch to describe them in that way given the exceptional circumstances. That’s all that kicked off the discussion and on the whole 2018 will be a year in which I get tough on him.

Unfortunately that pick 6 status and the continued comparisons with Langdon are seeing him judged harshly by some and with kid gloves by others. We can only hope he takes the next step in 2018 by adding the competitive streak he lacks currently, IMO. If he finds that internal campaigner it’ll benefit the team greatly!

Jeez all this debate over the word exceptional. I probably should have said ‘exceptional given his circumstances’, but I thought that was a given. My mistake for thinking people wouldn’t be so pedantic.

 

[Old Spice]

I think Scharenberg might be capable of nice kicking but I don't recall seeing any darts or pinpoint passes. A lot of safe lateral and backward kicking, or longer toward the boundary line.

Like Aish, will need to start taking some risks and show us all what skills they are supposed to possess.

 

[Scodog10]

Jeez all this debate over the word exceptional. I probably should have said ‘exceptional given his circumstances’, but I thought that was a given. My mistake for thinking people wouldn’t be so pedantic.

It’s bigfooty mate discussions have to be black or white!

 

[Darkyprotector]

DP I know you have this strong belief that we are going to do a mass of trading with our uncontracted fringe players come the end of 2018 but its a little OTT.

Take Shaz, Aish and Broomy who I agree are all needing a season to consolidate their position on the list. Options are they step up and become best 22 in which case the players who do that will be signed on again and required.

The group who struggle to be best 22 in 2018 will have just finished either their 5th or 6th season in the AFL and are not best 22. You will not bundle them up for 2nd round draft picks. Why would Port clutter their list with reasonably experienced players who cant get a game at Collingwood. They will be delisted not traded.

Port have gone all in this year , Thomas , trengrovre have limited upside but they took em
Maybe romance gc still holds currency and There all sa boys .Port now have a heap of blokes at the downward side and will need to reload again
Ryder, Hartlett , the skipper and westoff even Robbie gray are all ageing
I did say maybe
Port aren't the only option too ,perhaps for once the perception of our poor development will help with an optimistic view

 

[jackcass]

DP I know you have this strong belief that we are going to do a mass of trading with our uncontracted fringe players come the end of 2018 but its a little OTT.

Take Shaz, Aish and Broomy who I agree are all needing a season to consolidate their position on the list. Options are they step up and become best 22 in which case the players who do that will be signed on again and required.

The group who struggle to be best 22 in 2018 will have just finished either their 5th or 6th season in the AFL and are not best 22. You will not bundle them up for 2nd round draft picks. Why would Port clutter their list with reasonably experienced players who cant get a game at Collingwood. They will be delisted not traded.

Actually, Port with their 2017 drafting strategies might actually be a side looking for a couple of cheap transitional fringe players. Loaded up during the draft on mature players and already had Boak, Ryder, Westhoff and Gray nearing the end (30+ in 2018) and a bit of a weird age profile on their list.

 

[jackcass]

I think Scharenberg might be capable of nice kicking but I don't recall seeing any darts or pinpoint passes. A lot of safe lateral and backward kicking, or longer toward the boundary line.

Like Aish, will need to start taking some risks and show us all what skills they are supposed to possess.

Can only kick to where options present when either hitting up a pass or leading a player to where he needs to be.

 

[Pies2017]

It’s probably fair to do that because his circumstances are unique with his injuries. I wouldn’t have used the exact same language Apex did, but nor would I have called it a stretch to describe them in that way given the exceptional circumstances. That’s all that kicked off the discussion and on the whole 2018 will be a year in which I get tough on him.

Unfortunately that pick 6 status and the continued comparisons with Langdon are seeing him judged harshly by some and with kid gloves by others. We can only hope he takes the next step in 2018 by adding the competitive streak he lacks currently, IMO. If he finds that internal campaigner it’ll benefit the team greatly!

“internal campaigner”, like it! = IC, gives more flesh to the term icy stare.

 

[ottoman]

Jeez all this debate over the word exceptional. I probably should have said ‘exceptional given his circumstances’, but I thought that was a given. My mistake for thinking people wouldn’t be so pedantic.

I take issue with you labeling it a debate. From what I can see it is more of an argument than a debate. If it was a debate there would be more structure involved. Clearly on exposed form this is more of an argument.

 

[Gone Critical]

Jeez all this debate over the word exceptional. I probably should have said ‘exceptional given his circumstances’, but I thought that was a given. My mistake for thinking people wouldn’t be so pedantic.

Not sure its pedantic. Exceptional is a strong description, means someone who stands well above most. If thats what you believe great, stick by it. I dont reckon you need to qualify it by adding "given his circumstances". I assumed we were considering his circumstances which are well known and still wouldn't agree they are exceptional. I think they are good and show some promise but don't strike me as exceptional.

I would see you and Scodog10 being the black and white here and most of the rest of us are more grey with less absolute views. Still perhaps Sco is wavering given his latest view. He wouldnt use the "exact same language" you used even though he initially did use exactly the same language but thinks it's a stretch to describe "exceptional" as a stretch.

Not sure where that really places Sco but you are strong in your views on Shaz. I know you really rate him and that's great. I and I think most on the board are a little more reserved at this point. One thing you provide on the board is really strong views that you defend with vigour. Dont worry if sometimes others are more circumspect.

 

[ClaytonM]

I take issue with you labeling it a debate. From what I can see it is more of an argument than a debate. If it was a debate there would be more structure involved. Clearly on exposed form this is more of an argument.

I want to argue with you about it being an argument............ I think.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

I take issue with you labeling it a debate. From what I can see it is more of an argument than a debate. If it was a debate there would be more structure involved. Clearly on exposed form this is more of an argument.

I think you are being generous Great Turkman - argument has a long tradition that draws upon both logic and rhetoric.

This generosity of yours again leads me to the conclusion that in 2018 you have become a s0ftc0ck when addressing fellow posters.

Edit: Platonic Hugs

 

[Boogy]

Smith was a mature age recruit with 60+ state league matches behind him. Apples and oranges. Ryan Burton with extremely similar numbers is the next big thing seems legit. My best guess is that because we’ve seen it all before from Langdon it’s automatically assumed that it’s a given that a guy will come in and have that sort of impact.

Smith makes really bad decisions under any real or perceived pressure! He creates oppsition goals. Shaz make good decisions and generally hits targets.

 

[Bard]

Smith makes really bad decisions under any real or perceived pressure! He creates oppsition goals. Shaz make good decisions and generally hits targets.

And Langdon doesn't make decisions? :L

 

[Gone Critical]

Smith makes really bad decisions under any real or perceived pressure! He creates oppsition goals. Shaz make good decisions and generally hits targets.

I think to a degree Smith is an east target in this area. He shades Shaz a bit in disposal count, disposal efficiency and meters gained per game. Overall they are similar as accumulating HBs who are not strong defensively which is where they both need to improve. Smith attacks the contest a little more than Shaz at this stage but neither are strong with this. I think Shaz needs to be given time, he had a long out.

Truth is though via both stats and effectiveness there is not much difference currently. What we are hoping Shaz has a lot of improvement in him but its hard to see that in Smith.

 

[Jelly Bean]

I think to a degree Smith is an east target in this area. He shades Shaz a bit in disposal count, disposal efficiency and meters gained per game. Overall they are similar as accumulating HBs who are not strong defensively which is where they both need to improve. Smith attacks the contest a little more than Shaz at this stage but neither are strong with this. I think Shaz needs to be given time, he had a long out.

Truth is though via both stats and effectiveness there is not much difference currently. What we are hoping Shaz has a lot of improvement in him but its hard to see that in Smith.

I think the reality is that is Scharenberg can't improve his intensity and the usefulness of his disposals, he won't make it. I agree with many of the concerns we have seen in this thread - he is a little slow, a little 'soft' (for want of a better description), and a little timid with his disposal ambition (with his skills he shouldn't be kicking sideways 20 metres ever, instead should be driving forward 35m+ almost each time). Metres gained by foot should be a metric that he takes on within the team.

 

[Old Spice]

Smith is a better player than Scharenberg right now, statistically and in every other way.

 

[jackcass]

Smith is a better player than Scharenberg right now, statistically and in every other way.

Geez that's an indictment of Schaz. Of the 2017 listed players and on 2017 form I'd have Smith in the bottom half dozen players at the club I'd want/expect to get games in 2018 along with Blair, Oxley, Mayne, Lynch and Sier and he'd be behind most of those. Schaz is at least borderline best 22.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Smith is a better player than Scharenberg right now, statistically and in every other way.

Yeh, nah

 

[left at home]

Smith is a better player than Scharenberg right now, statistically and in every other way.

We will soon find out if you are right, though l don’t think so

 

[Old Spice]

Yeh, nah

I know everyone loves to fete players but right now that's how it is.

 

[Darkyprotector]

It's a long bow , I'm suprised that smith held his spot
I don't have Langdon , shaz or smith in my 22
All are far too vanilla
IMHO these types of guys ( ox ,rama,Phillips, Blair , broomy and above) have cost us games , weak links and our opposition knows it
Compound that with forwards who don't work hard enough defensively
That's why we've missed finals

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I know everyone loves to fete players but right now that's how it is.

Not about fetting the players. To me Smith is not on the same level.
Give the 17 other clubs the chance to take one of Smith or Scharenberg same cost same price all 17 will take Matthew in my view.

Just an opinion ofcourse.

Both have a way to go still, but to me only one shows class and poise.
That’s not a guarantee but it’s something ahead of the hard trier.

 

[Scodog10]

Smith is a better player than Scharenberg right now, statistically and in every other way.

I wouldn’t be as absolute myself. I don’t think either is all that “established” and I would have Scharenberg slightly ahead because Smith is worse defensively than Langdon and on par with Oxley under pressure.

 

[TW Sherrin]

if smith is on the list next year we are going nowhere.

 

[Horaceg]

if smith is on the list next year we are going nowhere.

Might be all we can afford if we land Lynch, need some very cheap options.